D5 pump - possible amount of coolers

[gurusmi]

Hi out there,

i have a D Pump and a lot of coolers. I want to know if one pump is enought or if i need two of them. I don't want to start the new rig and realize that i will need to open it again to integrate a second pump

Pump
1 * Alphacool VPP Apex Pump

Coolers:
1 * Heatkiller AMD
1 * Alphacool Apex RAM X4 Water Cooler Black
4 * Alphacool HDX Apex M.2 SSD Kühler
1 * Filter
and possibly 1 GPU Cooler

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[ir_cow]

That's a lot of blocks in the loop.

 

[Flyordie]

D5 should be able to handle that just fine. Jay has run more than that on 1 D5 before. lol

 

[Vya Domus]

How many rads are you going to use ? The filter is unnecessary.

Hooking up that many tubes for the RAM and M.2 blocks is going to be insane though, do you really need that ? I don't think the blocks themselves add too much resistance but all those bends might.

 

[dgianstefani]

There's zero reason to watercool 3600 ram.

Since you're on Zen 2 you don't have pcie gen 5 either, so there's zero reason to watercool your SSDs either. Put the loop money into better components.

If you're building a new rig you need to be pushing 8000+ RAM or extremely tight timings for watercooling DDR5 to make sense.

Regardless, it won't be an issue to run those off one pump. If your loop needs a filter it's got something wrong with it though, don't mix metals and use reasonable coolant and you'll be fine without it.

 

[thesmokingman]

Yeesh, research more!

 

[gurusmi]

How many rads are you going to use ? The filter is unnecessary.

Hooking up that many tubes for the RAM and M.2 blocks is going to be insane though, do you really need that ? I don't think the blocks themselves add too much resistance but all those bends might.

Oh. Sorry. I have a 420/45mm XFlow installed and a 360/30mm XFlow. The filter is integrated into a small flow indicator to see if there is a flow at all.

There's zero reason to watercool 3600 ram.

It is as new rig. AM5, Ryzen 7950x,.... It is mainly a workstation and not anything else. No OC planned. Originally it was planned to have the GPU and CPU on water and the rest on air. But for the GPU (7800XT) i did want to have there is no water cooler available. That system is designed for software development, calculations in Excel/Libreoffice, 3D scanning and 3D printing. It is not planned to play games on that. It has two 40" UWQHD monitors to drive at (hopefully) 150-170 hz.

 

[Calenhad]

A D5 should do fine with that loop. People "always" underestimate the performance of a serious pump like that. Heck, a DDC can probably keep a loop like this flowing just fine.

I would skip the ram cooler and m.2 coolers. M.2 coolers can make sense if you are actually using superhot PCIe 5.0 drives. But only then. And are you actually running 4x 5.0 ssds under constant load? 4.0 or lower drives will never need a water cooling block. It is an unnecessary complication. Depending on how you hook them up to your loop you can also end up twisting the ssd (or worse), so make sure you put no stress on the ssds if you go with the blocks. Ask me how I know

I would also get a different flow meter if your choice come with a filter. Prepare your new cooling hardware properly (flush components properly before use etc) and use correct coolant, then a filter is never required. Just adds extra resistance. Better yet, get a flow meter that you can monitor in the OS. There are options that hook up to a fan header, controller and so on. I would also recommend a water temp sensor. I control the fans based on water temp, no point having the fans spin up for one little temp spike in a piece of hardware imho. Water temp is the important variable in a watercooling loop.

 

[gurusmi]

Hmmm. I miss my last post. So again.

So i will buy a second D5 later and only when needed.

If i apply the coolers depend on my cooling philosophy. It is not to cool the components but much more where i want to have the heat transferred to the air. With air cooling this will be directly around the component. With a water cooler it will be where the radiator is placed. Originally it is said that all PCIe 5.0 SSD's suffer on heat problems. I'm scanning 3D. The resulting clouds can have multi millions of points. The resulting size of such models can be easily 1 GB. That data is more often written to the drives. A reason for my Raid-0-Level drives. I have 2 of them in PCe 5.0 and also one more in PCIe 4.0. My board only supports two 5.0 NVME Drives totally. I have right now a Lian Li O11 XL Rog case with a PCIe 4.0 drive, Ryzen 3800, 4 RAM Bars and also a 5700XT inside. That case is a pita. I can only use it when i don't apply the glass. And that with 10 fans. The Ram, PCH, VRM and 5700XT all blow their hot air into the case. I don't want to have that any longer. For my actual Rig i bought a Anidees case. Big Tower. Below the desk i don't have a chance to place there a ThermalTake Tower 900. But i would need that space inside. Even at my BigTower i don't have a lot of space. I fight for every single inch. Therefor i'm happy not to be in need of a second pump. My setup is right now with soft tubes. If i will face problems with the tubing i will have to change over to hard tubing. I did pay till now over 4.100€. And i will to have to pay additional 2.700€ to get the rig finished. In my rif there are a few more things im not sure about. I don't know if the fans will be powerful enough. Alsi i'm quite unsure if i dont need a stronger PSU. Also those things i will address at the end. A lot of that things i got haven't been thought at the manufacturers. But 3D Printing is not far away. I build my rigs since at least 30 years.I know what i do and also why. The RAM is taken from the QVL. The System SSD's are either Crucial T700 or Teamgroup Z540. The Data-SSD's are two WD Black SN 850X. If they are getting hot? I don't know. But i want to have the heat outside of the case. I still philosophing about the GPU. I will have 2 40" UWQHD on the rig. They should drive those monitors with the frequency of 155Hw (or so). So i have some questions on them also. Should i go for a RX7800XT air cooled or should i grab a layer higher with a water cooler? and so on. Questions i can only answer to myself. Because the free space is really rare. I want to mount my GPU vertically. But i have less than 50mm available and so the GPU incl. the cooler has to be thin. Real thin. Especially as i don't want to construct and print a riser.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Amount of water blocks aren't really the issue usually of course you add a lot more possible leaks
Radiators are the ones that can be the most restrictive parts
So just pick least restrictive low rpm rated rads and don't rely on a lot of 90 degree fitting to save time piping
Soft tubing can save a lot of time and issues piping.

 

[dgianstefani]

If you're going to use two pumps, have two loops, don't put both in the same loop.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
I just setup a couple sn850x 4tb which did not come with heatsinks as you probably know and yes they do get a little toasty maxed at 91c with CDM
Good thing is just a cheapo 7.us heatsink (in a laptop) dropped that max to 63c and a beefier thermalright heatsink which was also 7.us did the same on my z490 rig.

So if you think 63c is to much go for the water.

 

[thesmokingman]

Oh. Sorry. I have a 420/45mm XFlow installed and a 360/30mm XFlow. The filter is integrated into a small flow indicator to see if there is a flow at all.


It is as new rig. AM5, Ryzen 7950x,.... It is mainly a workstation and not anything else. No OC planned. Originally it was planned to have the GPU and CPU on water and the rest on air. But for the GPU (7800XT) i did want to have there is no water cooler available. That system is designed for software development, calculations in Excel/Libreoffice, 3D scanning and 3D printing. It is not planned to play games on that. It has two 40" UWQHD monitors to drive at (hopefully) 150-170 hz.

No point in watercooling if yer not doing the GPU. D5 two blocks, more than two and hello trickle...

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Rad wise I think they are to thick to be effective ?

EK-Quantum Surface P360M Radiator Review

EK impressed before with its new Quantum Surface S360 and X360M radiators in the 30-mm and 60-mm thickness classes respectively, and today we examine the P360M that slots between the two at 44 mm in thickness. It shares more in common with the bigger X360M in features and performance too, so you...

www.techpowerup.com

But since you have them I doubt it's a good idea to not use them.

Ek has dual D5 pump solutions worth considering.

Rad review is for the tpu charts by the way.

 

[gurusmi]

Hi,
Amount of water blocks aren't really the issue usually of course you add a lot more possible leaks
Radiators are the ones that can be the most restrictive parts
So just pick least restrictive low rpm rated rads and don't rely on a lot of 90 degree fitting to save time piping
Soft tubing can save a lot of time and issues piping.

I don't have any space for a second reservoir at all. So a second loop will not be possible. I got one D5 in my Siastroplate and would take a second of the same brand/type with a new top into the loop. I would have major problems to place that second loop inside the case. I have a hell of things inside incl. a quadro and 2 farbwerk360 controllers.I need to dismount the upper radiator if i need to get to the upper part of my mainboard.

I have an EKWP 420/45mm radiator. Three second one haf to be thinner because of space. So i got an Alphacool 360/30mm one. The X-Flow version reduces the need of at least two angled adapters. Nevertheless i have to have around 15 Adapters in 90° and also 45°.

If i have issues on getting the SSD's and RAM Cooler connected i would have to switch to hard tubing. Especially as i use 16/10 EPDM Tubing.

Hi,
Rad wise I think they are to thick to be effective ?

EK-Quantum Surface P360M Radiator Review

EK impressed before with its new Quantum Surface S360 and X360M radiators in the 30-mm and 60-mm thickness classes respectively, and today we examine the P360M that slots between the two at 44 mm in thickness. It shares more in common with the bigger X360M in features and performance too, so you...

www.techpowerup.com

I have one of the P seria. With a thickness of 45mm. The older one cools my older 3800x already since 4 years.

 

[thesmokingman]

Hi,
Amount of water blocks aren't really the issue usually of course you add a lot more possible leaks
Radiators are the ones that can be the most restrictive parts
So just pick least restrictive low rpm rated rads and don't rely on a lot of 90 degree fitting to save time piping
Soft tubing can save a lot of time and issues piping.

I dunno, kind of disagree on the number of blocks and rad restriction. The number of blocks absolutely needs to be balanced vs the number of rads especially in the context of which type of pump used. And on the topic of rads, rad performance is crucial over restriction. I will go with a stronger pump to run a more restrictive rad because it's worth it for the performance of a HWL rad which are generally speaking more restrictive than the competition.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
As someone with two hwl gtx280 rads I can vouch they are restrictive and have poor rating for low rpm fans
Kind of why I suggest the ek dual pump solution
Hell I didn't have room for even that so used a normal pump/ res combo and mounted a d5 top where it would fit and out of the way of majority of places that I would need easy access to.
This image is before I added a bunch of qdc's for even easier access.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

funny how people say multiple rads and blocks are fine for a single D5. I have always had flow problems with a D5 and have never had more than 2 blocks, 2 rads, maybe i have just had shitty pumps, idk. In all the loops i have ever had, i have never seen flow over 200L/H whatever the amout of blocks or rads.

 

[ThrashZone]

Shit gets clogged and that kills flow I've been there as well with beta fluid choices.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

I think my next pump is going to be a dual D5 EK thing, to be sure of good flow, and just in case one fails.

 

[thesmokingman]

funny how people say multiple rads and blocks are fine for a single D5. I have always had flow problems with a D5 and have never had more than 2 blocks, 2 rads, maybe i have just had shitty pumps, idk. In all the loops i have ever had, i have never seen flow over 200L/H whatever the amout of blocks or rads.

The science and testing has borne out the fact that the D5 has roughly half the head that a DDC has. Facts are often ignored in watercooling and I mean, a lot of the knowledge has been lost as a result of the retirement of some key testers.

 

[FoulOnWhite]

The science and testing has borne out the fact that the D5 has roughly half the head that a DDC has. Facts are often ignored in watercooling and I mean, a lot of the knowledge has been lost as a result of the retirement of some key testers.

Doesn't one have more head but less flow or something iirc? but which matters the most, head or flow?

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
D5 water cooled is about the difference.

 

[thesmokingman]

Doesn't one have more head but less flow or something iirc? but which matters the most, head or flow?

Flow is super overrated, meaningless in watercooling loops. It's the head that is important, because either pump can achieve the low bar for flow. However the DDC has twice the head of a D5. We're in a period of D5 loving so the facts get glossed over cuz ppl are pushing D5's out of bias.

 

[ShrimpBrime]

Doesn't one have more head but less flow or something iirc? but which matters the most, head or flow?

Head is what the flow can be against gravity in a vertical line straight up.

Restrictions are like gravity. The back pressure is what causes a slow flow rate. As if going up with the flow.

It's always better to get pumps with a lot of head. Then you'll keep a good flow to carry the thermals to the radiator/s, even if you have some restrictions like 90 degree fittings or a pinched tube.

The goal is to get the water delta as low as possible. The same as ambient air temp would be ideal, but most loops recycle some thermals.

Then the talks can turn to temp gradient and coefficients. Air coolers usually have a higher temp gradient. This means it dissipates more efficiently with higher temps. The coefficients are the dissipation rates to x materials from y materials.

Faster flow is better for low temp gradient setups like custom water loops with a low if rad surface area. Less radiator/s would create a higher gradient and slower flow rates would also increase it.