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DLSS 4 is better than native resolution?

DLSS 4 is better than native resolution?

  • Total voters
    63
G

Gameslove

Joined
Mar 31, 2009
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What do you think RTX 2000 - 4000 users? DLSS 4 such a new AA method instead TAA some scenarios?
 
Doing my own comparisons in Marvel Rivals, I'd call DLSS Balanced at 4k output a broad match for Native, so Quality and Ultra Quality look better to my eye. Only one game tested mind you.
 
Depends. Only because TAA is pretty bad it blurs and smears everything and TAA is what a lot of games use these days
 
I really wish someone would overlay the native image over the D.L.S.S & show the areas where it's actually worse than the Native resolution. However, I want to just have native with no AA, but so many games a sticking with TAA/TAAU as the only lowest options & no SMAA Or MSAA at all. Sometimes even FXAA isn't even there to select either.
 
DemonicRyzen666 said:
I want to just have native with no AA, but so many games a sticking with TAA/TAAU as the only lowest options
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I've been testing in marvel rivals and recording comparisons, they allow no AA at all which is neat for a UE5 game. Should have something to share in coming days.
 
I hit No but DLSS Quality can be an improvement over bad TAA at 1440p/4K when it comes to the ability to control sharpness with a slider.
 
@Gameslove just a few thoughts on this poll and the veracity of results you will get here.
  • Much the same as some past polls on Techpowerup, there is no burden of proof that people voting actually use the hardware required to test/see this themselves (RTX cards), so in this instance people that can't use DLSS at all can vote, and they will vote, and I'd wager they'll vote no.
  • Not sure if you've noticed here and other forums, there will be / still are people opposed to the idea that better than native is even possible, and you can bet they'll vote no too.
  • Your poll doesn't mention resolution at all, and I've never seen DLSS look better than native at 1080p, but I have at 2160p, which is a significant factor to consider when voting on your question.
It's still an interesting poll and hopefully a civil and interesting discussion, but I wouldn't hang my hat on the results you get from the poll itself given those caveats and perhaps more I haven't considered.
 
i dont know about this, but in CBP 2077, DLSS 4 transformers model (quality, auto, balanced) its really good, much good than the old way of DLSS version, but not so good if using it together with DLSS RR.
Gameslove said:
What do you think RTX 2000 - 4000 users? DLSS 4 such a new AA method instead TAA some scenarios?
Click to expand...
 
No its not better then native rez cause it does upscale the image but it allows nearly the same image on screen as native but with decent performance increase. not 100% same but most people won't ever see the difference.
 
DemonicRyzen666 said:
I really wish someone would overlay the native image over the D.L.S.S & show the areas where it's actually worse than the Native resolution. However, I want to just have native with no AA, but so many games a sticking with TAA/TAAU as the only lowest options & no SMAA Or MSAA at all. Sometimes even FXAA isn't even there to select either.
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I'd say out of the games I play, at least half allow no AA. Though some need it for other reasons, like hiding optimizations they have made elsewhere in the game, so if 'low' AA is as low as you can go, thats probably the reason why.

And you can always force FXAA with nvidia control panel or with reshade. I can't stand no AA. So I usually use downsampling+a temporal method, like TAA or DLAA, if its implemented into the game thats best, if its not, then I'll use reshade but that TAA has no motion vectors so its not as good and has more ghosting, so I use only a little + Multiple post process methods similar to FXAA. Thats how much I don't like jaggies.

But I can appreciate that not everybody is like me and may want the raw image.

Also msaa doesn't really work properly anymore, unless the game is just simple geometry and none of the effects you see in modern games. Good thing you can still downsample. SSAA has always been the best AA. And if the blurriness of temporal methods bother you, it should help with that too though it comes with quite the performance cost unless its mixed with with upscaling, which can and often does work well but it depends on the game.
 
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The real question should be, is DLSS 4 better that a quality native presentation?

DLSS has enabled devs to get sloppy with their native presentation so really if it's "better than native", it's because DLSS enabled that to begin with. DLSS in this instance is both the "solution" and the source of the problem.
 
evernessince said:
DLSS has enabled devs to get sloppy with their native presentation so really if it's "better than native", it's because DLSS enabled that to begin with
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While that's possible, and I'd say is probably true for at least one or more games, I don't think it's a reasonable conclusion to draw for all games. Some games are designed with upscaling in mind, but that isn't necessarily mutually exclusive to them making the native presentation half assed/worse than it could be.

And at the end of the day it might not matter, in a given game, we can compare to Native, as that's the presentation you get in that game.
 
It can be better but it has more to do with Native + TAA sucking more than DLSS being awesome.... DLAA is king currently in my book and it isn't close and that would technically be native now if you want to talk about DLDSR combined with DLSS quality then sure it's better than native but it also about 50% more expensive to run.


So the better question would have been can DLSS Quality be better than Native + TAA and the answer to that is yes but it's subjective and comes down to what the person thinks has bigger downsides and right now TAA needs to die.

evernessince said:
The real question should be, is DLSS 4 better that a quality native presentation?

DLSS has enabled devs to get sloppy with their native presentation so really if it's "better than native", it's because DLSS enabled that to begin with. DLSS in this instance is both the "solution" and the source of the problem.
Click to expand...

TAA started being rolled out well before DLSS and has sucked since it's inception it hasn't magically gotten worse over time. Just like any technology some developers are better than others with it but as a whole it sucks.
 
Sure, it looks great standing still. I just don't like the way any of it runs. Give me plain old rasterization at a good, high native resolution. If your textures look good, and your engine isn't garbage, then that is enough to satisfy me. I don't like dlss, upscaling, frame gen, motion blur, lens flares, particles, depth of field, godrays, water droplets, fog, or smoke.....blob shadows are barely acceptable.

b8ac5d0ba9527148314df0819d75fb0e.jpg
 
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Native resolution is not even native, lots of things on screen are being rendered at lower resolution to save on performance LOL.

Lots of haters talk about game optimization, having a good AI upscaler is THE OPTIMIZATION.

Oh and DLSS 2.x already exceed Native Resolution, because it give more FPS than the perceived visual loss, DLSS4 meanwhile just raised the bar higher.
 
Gameslove said:
What do you think RTX 2000 - 4000 users? DLSS 4 such a new AA method instead TAA some scenarios?
Click to expand...

False argument... in headline it says "is dlss better than native res", then in text it says "is dlss better than taa" which is NOT the same thing.
Dlaa is native res and looks considerably better than dlss.
 
nguyen said:
Native resolution is not even native, lots of things on screen are being rendered at lower resolution so save on performance
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I think theres a couple of angles to consider, and referencing an above comment to some extent.

Can it be better than the best Native+TAA/NoAA in a given game which is known to have a super pristine native presentation? -> interesting academically for sure, and relevant to that specific game.
Can it be better in game XYZ that you're trying to play at that particular moment, vs Native+TAA/NoAA -> perhaps more relevant as we as consumers can't alter the game to improve native, if indeed corners were cut/it's average as hell for whatever reason. We can only work with what we have.

As I've said before too, Native is just a reference point in a given game for image quality, virtually no matter what, you can get worse, and you can get better. So if better is possible (which it would be even in a game known to have a super pristine native presentation) it stands to reason DLSS and indeed other solutions could achieve that. There is a reason people have been saying it for years now.

Then there's the consideration of image quality at a given framerate. It's kind of bonkers to see Marvel Rivals run at 100fps in 4 using DLSS UQ mode vs 73fps Native+TAA, while looking even better.
 
nguyen said:
Native resolution is not even native, lots of things on screen are being rendered at lower resolution to save on performance LOL.

Lots of haters talk about game optimization, having a good AI upscaler is THE OPTIMIZATION.

Oh and DLSS 2.x already exceed Native Resolution, because it give more FPS than the perceived visual loss, DLSS4 meanwhile just raised the bar higher.
Click to expand...

That might be true if all you care about is fps - however, people who primarily care about visual fidelity will not agree.
 
I prefer DLAA myself..
 
nguyen said:
Oh and DLSS 2.x already exceed Native Resolution, because it give more FPS than the perceived visual loss, DLSS4 meanwhile just raised the bar higher.
Click to expand...
That means there is still quality loss. It's just that you're not pay attention to it. That's why I mentioned an over lay for comparison
 
wolf said:
@Gameslove just a few thoughts on this poll and the veracity of results you will get here.
  • Much the same as some past polls on Techpowerup, there is no burden of proof that people voting actually use the hardware required to test/see this themselves (RTX cards), so in this instance people that can't use DLSS at all can vote, and they will vote, and I'd wager they'll vote no.
  • Not sure if you've noticed here and other forums, there will be / still are people opposed to the idea that better than native is even possible, and you can bet they'll vote no too.
  • Your poll doesn't mention resolution at all, and I've never seen DLSS look better than native at 1080p, but I have at 2160p, which is a significant factor to consider when voting on your question.
It's still an interesting poll and hopefully a civil and interesting discussion, but I wouldn't hang my hat on the results you get from the poll itself given those caveats and perhaps more I haven't considered.
Click to expand...
With my RTX 4080 Super I avoid DLSS like the emperor's new clothes it is. It's more like De-Resolution than super resolution.
 
DLAA is awesome , should be a stand alone , only lose about a frame or two , I rather lower RT , to keep DLAA at 4K .
 
nothing beats dldsr+dlss (for example its a must for my 2k monitor, i set 4k dldsr + dlss on quality)
not even dlaa wich hits performance almost the same is near that crisp vivid image
 
mobiuus said:
nothing beats dldsr+dlss (for example its a must for my 2k monitor, i set 4k dldsr + dlss on quality)
not even dlaa wich hits performance almost the same is near that crisp vivid image
Click to expand...

Dsr 4.0 is better than dldsr.
 
Let's get things straight, from image quality perspective :
Native 1080p < Native 4k
1080p + 4x SSAA/DSR < Native 4k
1440p + DL DSR < Native 4k
Bottom line : 1080p native is never going to look better than 4k native.
Culprit : A lower native resolution LCD/OLED based monitor, can't display as much detail as higher resolution one.
1440p with DLSS may be better than 1080p, but it can't be better than 4k native.
4k + DLSS may be better 4k native, but can't be better than 8k native.

TAA/FXAA can go home, noAA + highest resolution = best result :D (with SSAA/DSR being second best options)
 
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