Fractal define R4 vs R5 build quality.

[chrcoluk]

So prices tumbled after going crazy a couple of years back, I did consider the r7, but they still following the practice of making you buy drive bays separately and they look very flimsy so went with the r5. Definitely didnt like the bottom compartment on the r7 for drives. Reminded me of the p180 bottom compartment which is a nightmare.

This will be for the AMD machine in my sig as the P180 is a nightmare for drive management, but I noticed the build quality isnt up to the same standard as my much older r4. Pieces that dont fit cleanly, rattling, lower quality drive bays, thinner metal. However feature wise on paper its a good evolution, removable door that can also switch side of opening, bottom dust tray removed from front, extra 2 ssd bays back of motherboard plate, smaller less glary led, more spaced out USB and labelled (although r4 uses blue for gen 3 so still obvious which are gen 3 ports), better modular configuration for drive bays so allows better air flow, better cover design for top and side fans.

I am curious though if the r5 build quality dropped on its launch or maybe its something thats happened over time to keep costs down, and what the build quality is like on their newer cases.

 

[#22]

Build quality of their newer cases (R6 and 7) is better than R5 and they are better cases in general. Especially if we compare R5 to 7 which I know by heart due to building pcs in them often and personally using 7 Black Solid. With (cheap) regular Pure Base 500 they make my top three of overally best cases. But me choosing one over another varies - I tend to choose R5 over 7, because better value for average Joe and rather strict budgets, but I've had no doubts with choosing 7 for myself. Coming back to quality, you can clearly see that R5 was big step forward in terms of design and ergonomics, but also the last Define trying to keep price relatively low. And it feels compromised next to simply uncompromised 7. Mentioned drive bays are one of the examples and especially if we talk legit storage layout you can transform 7 into. In R5 it's good, but never perfectly fitted - each tray always sit more or less flimsy. I have never build storage layout in 7, but it just must be better. There're few elements putting tray in place with screws on both sides making it unmovable and construction using weight of whole case to dampen vibration even further. Not counting better cooling of drives or less restricting whole airflow.

 

[chrcoluk]

Build quality of their newer cases (R6 and 7) is better than R5 and they are better cases in general. Especially if we compare R5 to 7 which I know by heart due to building pcs in them often and personally using 7 Black Solid. With (cheap) regular Pure Base 500 they make my top three of overally best cases. But me choosing one over another varies - I tend to choose R5 over 7, because better value for average Joe and rather strict budgets, but I've had no doubts with choosing 7 for myself. Coming back to quality, you can clearly see that R5 was big step forward in terms of design and ergonomics, but also the last Define trying to keep price relatively low. And it feels compromised next to simply uncompromised 7. Mentioned drive bays are one of the examples and especially if we talk legit storage layout you can transform 7 into. In R5 it's good, but never perfectly fitted - each tray always sit more or less flimsy. I have never build storage layout in 7, but it just must be better. There're few elements putting tray in place with screws on both sides making it unmovable and construction using weight of whole case to dampen vibration even further. Not counting better cooling of drives or less restricting whole airflow.

This was my issue with going with 7, it got reviewed in open layout, and not many people now days use towers for storage anymore, so I went with whats trusted. Thanks for your reply.

When the day comes I have no more than a few SATA drives in my main rig the R4 might get replaced so I have a more open better air flow system.

 

[freeagent]

I have an R4. I don’t think I would use it for a modern high performance pc though. I mean, it isn't terrible, but you can for sure do better.

 

[#22]

This was my issue with going with 7, it got reviewed in open layout, and not many people now days use towers for storage anymore, so I went with whats trusted. Thanks for your reply.

When the day comes I have no more than a few SATA drives in my main rig the R4 might get replaced so I have a more open better air flow system.

I forgot to mention that even in bottom cage you don't like trays sit better than ones in R5. I don't want to criticize R5 too much in this regard, because in fact it uses very good solution, better than almost all other cases, but with 7 they just made it better. The thing with R5 and 7 in general is you just see what you pay premium for and usual difference in price (30-40%) may seem big, but imo is negligible in the long run and we talk thing giving more options and serving better all this time, so totally worth it.

 

[P4-630]

Or look at the German Be Quiet! quality cases.

I will be getting the Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 901 for my next build.

 

[Frick]

I have an R4. I don’t think I would use it for a modern high performance pc though. I mean, it isn't terrible, but you can for sure do better.

Depends on how much you pay for it, a say €50 used R4 is much better than anything else for the same price. Even at €80 it would be hard to find anything of the same quality. I got mine for €40 and it's great. I had to remove a drive cage when I got the 6950XT, but it still holds more HDDs than most modern cases, plus two 5.25" slots.

 

[Ruru]

I have an R4. I don’t think I would use it for a modern high performance pc though. I mean, it isn't terrible, but you can for sure do better.

Funny, I like R4 more than the newer revisions. I actually may try to get one again.

 

[freeagent]

Depends on how much you pay for it, a say €50 used R4 is much better than anything else for the same price. Even at €80 it would be hard to find anything of the same quality. I got mine for €40 and it's great. I had to remove a drive cage when I got the 6950XT, but it still holds more HDDs than most modern cases, plus two 5.25" slots.

Oh I agree, the build quality is pretty good. Maybe even a bit better than my Torrent..

I mean, I am trying to think like a sane person. When I was using my R4, I had every orifice plugged with a 120x38mm fan. Performance was excellent, but a bit loud..

 

[Ruru]

Depends on how much you pay for it, a say €50 used R4 is much better than anything else for the same price. Even at €80 it would be hard to find anything of the same quality. I got mine for €40 and it's great. I had to remove a drive cage when I got the 6950XT, but it still holds more HDDs than most modern cases, plus two 5.25" slots.

Actually the 5.25" bays could come handy for me, what a perfect place for a bay pump-res

 

[chrcoluk]

I forgot to mention that even in bottom cage you don't like trays sit better than ones in R5. I don't want to criticize R5 too much in this regard, because in fact it uses very good solution, better than almost all other cases, but with 7 they just made it better. The thing with R5 and 7 in general is you just see what you pay premium for and usual difference in price (30-40%) may seem big, but imo is negligible in the long run and we talk thing giving more options and serving better all this time, so totally worth it.

Best pic I could find, seems on the R7 the trays are only secured one side, and have to be screwed in, seems to be no tray bracket at all? This is why I didnt pick it up for this machine, the R5 (and R4) seem like they designed with storage in mind whilst the R7 is more focused on more modern cooling, but with storage support bolted on (and trays optional purchases). If there was reviewers loading this thing up with drives, then I might have grabbed it, price wasnt the reason I went with the R5.

For sure R4 is better build quality than R5, I just finished it up, and the standoffs dont go all the way down, manufacturing imperfection, had to make it work with what I got, and one of the rubber things covering the cable holes came off as well. The standoff issue also means the board ports at the back are slightly out of line as well, tested all the ports to make sure I could use them. Still I finally got it out of that P180, a big improvement.

 

[Ruru]

Post some pics from the finished build, I had a R4 last time in 2016 so I'm interested how it looks with modern parts.

 

[Onasi]

Oh I agree, the build quality is pretty good. Maybe even a bit better than my Torrent..

Torrent is weird. It’s both very well built and, simultaneously, the plastic parts, while seemingly durable, feel to the touch like something insanely cheap. It’s not an issue obviously, except for the popping that the front fascia on mine always produces when the temperature fluctuates, lol.

Or look at the German Be Quiet! quality cases.

I will be getting the Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 901 for my next build.

They are about as German as the cars rolling out of Volkswagen-SAIC China plants. They are well made, no doubt, but not more so than any other premium-ish case.

 

[chrcoluk]

Post some pics from the finished build, I had a R4 last time in 2016 so I'm interested how it looks with modern parts.

Sure tomorrow, its not tidy though.

 

[Onasi]

Honestly, come to think of it, if we’re talking sheer build quality it would make all the modern commercial cases, even premium ones, absolute trash. You want quality? Find one of those early 2000-s IBM workstation cases. I still have some of them at work, came with Thermo Fisher lab equipment. Now that, that’s build quality. One of those bad boys empty weighs as much as my Torrent WITH all the hardware inside while being like 30% smaller. Side panels can be used as a murder weapon easily. Steel so thick I am fairly sure that the case can be used as cover from moderate caliber gunfire. Plastic parts thick and crusty, like those on ruggedized laptops that Tier 1 SpecOps use to assassinate weddings with drones or whatever it is they do. And they came with industrial Delta fans preinstalled on side and rear, so you know you get airflow even by modern standards (sounds like a sandstorm, but hey).
They don’t make ‘em like they used to is what I am saying.

 

[Ruru]

Honestly, come to think of it, if we’re talking sheer build quality it would make all the modern commercial cases, even premium ones, absolute trash. You want quality? Find one of those early 2000-s IBM workstation cases. I still have some of them at work, came with Thermo Fisher lab equipment. Now that, that’s build quality. One of those bad boys empty weighs as much as my Torrent WITH all the hardware inside while being like 30% smaller. Side panels can be used as a murder weapon easily. Steel so thick I am fairly sure that the case can be used as cover from moderate caliber gunfire. Plastic parts thick and crusty, like those on ruggedized laptops that Tier 1 SpecOps use to assassinate weddings with drones or whatever it is they do. And they came with industrial Delta fans preinstalled on side and rear, so you know you get airflow even by modern standards (sounds like a sandstorm, but hey).
They don’t make ‘em like they used to is what I am saying.

Modern cases have hella thin steel when compared to older ones. Like mentioned on this thread, even the 10+ yrs old R4 feels like a much more higher quality case than some modern, even high-end ones.

I hate that they have to build cases from tinfoil instead of thicker steel just to save a little.

 

[#22]

In general with Define series R5 is the first one being worthy upgrade of whatever previous Define or one worth buying instead. It's good to the point when you just can't complain. R6 and 7 are simply even better and take idea of series - options - even further.

Or look at the German Be Quiet! quality cases.

I will be getting the Be Quiet! Dark Base Pro 901 for my next build.

Compare 901 to Define 7 or Meshify 2 (or their XL versions to be more fair volume wise) and see how disappointing 901 is. Just inverted layout, charger and disappointments for absurd price If quality is the same as Dark Base 900 family, another point for disappointments and another win for Fractals.

Best pic I could find, seems on the R7 the trays are only secured one side, and have to be screwed in, seems to be no tray bracket at all? This is why I didnt pick it up for this machine, the R5 (and R4) seem like they designed with storage in mind whilst the R7 is more focused on more modern cooling, but with storage support bolted on (and trays optional purchases). If there was reviewers loading this thing up with drives, then I might have grabbed it, price wasnt the reason I went with the R5.

For sure R4 is better build quality than R5, I just finished it up, and the standoffs dont go all the way down, manufacturing imperfection, had to make it work with what I got, and one of the rubber things covering the cable holes came off as well. The standoff issue also means the board ports at the back are slightly out of line as well, tested all the ports to make sure I could use them. Still I finally got it out of that P180, a big improvement.

With bottom cage they are in fact secured with one screw you see on the right, but they sit tighter than to some point flimsy ones in R5. When going storage layout on the other side you have two bolts making it sit in place and hole to screw it. You also buy 7 with six trays and one so called multibracket included, so can mount seven HDDs out of the box.

HDD Tray kit - Type-B (2-pack)

Increase the storage capacity of your Fractal case with a drive bracket upgrade kit.

www.fractal-design.com

Bad to hear with standoffs, but such quality control problems happen even with more expensive cases.

 

[freeagent]

Torrent is weird. It’s both very well built and, simultaneously, the plastic parts, while seemingly durable, feel to the touch like something insanely cheap. It’s not an issue obviously, except for the popping that the front fascia on mine always produces when the temperature fluctuates, lol.

That is weird.. mine feels ok.. no flex, definitely no creaks or pops.. I mean the side window on my R4 is super crappy, it is all scratched from GPU cables. I was thinking that the R4 might be stamped with a thicker gauge or maybe higher grade metal

My regret with my Torrent is that I did not get the full sized one.

 

[Onasi]

@freeagent
To be fair, I only get said pops when it’s cold outside, yet warm in the room and the window is first opened to air the room and then, after it’s closed, it gets rapidly warmer. Just standard thermal expansion from the plastic, probably in the pins that hold the fascia to the metal in front. Hardly an issue.
No flex on mine either, that’s true, and no creaking. It’s just the plastic itself feels a bit toy-like to me.
And yeah, I do have the full-tower one. It’s actually quite sizable, but hey, potentially 7 120/140 fan mounts. Plenty for anything.

 

[Event Horizon]

@freeagent
To be fair, I only get said pops when it’s cold outside, yet warm in the room and the window is first opened to air the room and then, after it’s closed, it gets rapidly warmer. Just standard thermal expansion from the plastic, probably in the pins that hold the fascia to the metal in front. Hardly an issue.
No flex on mine either, that’s true, and no creaking. It’s just the plastic itself feels a bit toy-like to me.
And yeah, I do have the full-tower one. It’s actually quite sizable, but hey, potentially 7 120/140 fan mounts. Plenty for anything.

My full size torrent also creaks and pops when the temperature changes. I also have an R5 which feels sturdier overall apart from the modular plastic vent covers at the top.

 

[#22]

My full size torrent also creaks and pops when the temperature changes. I also have an R5 which feels sturdier overall apart from the modular plastic vent covers at the top.

Normal thing with temperature changes and sadly unavoidable, so I wouldn't hate the case much for including plastic elements - it would be better less plasticky, so potentially doing less noise, but there will always be plastic things in the system and rather many of them. Btw with R5 whole top is discussable and example where they cut corners compared to successors. It's no filtered and perforated tops like that, serving also as mounts for cooling, are prone to vibrations from fans or even AiOs. On the other hand nice is being able to use exactly the modules you need to open, so without needing to open whole top, but opening whatever reduces sound-proofing what this case is designed for in the first place. With sound-dampened cases to make sense they just need to not have a window, but panel with material and the same on top, so you being fine with no openings and ventilation here.

 

[Frick]

Oh I agree, the build quality is pretty good. Maybe even a bit better than my Torrent..

I mean, I am trying to think like a sane person. When I was using my R4, I had every orifice plugged with a 120x38mm fan. Performance was excellent, but a bit loud..

I have the sound proofing kit, and ... I honestly don't know how many fans (one in, one out possibly) and it's actually fine, temperature-wise, even with the 6950xt. With some fan curve editing it's even pleasantly quiet. Maybe two in, one out? The top has the noise dampeners on it, as do the sides. It's excellent.

 

[freeagent]

Oh yeah mine has that too, makes for a heavy case. It’s a good case, and it will run eatx too which is very nice.

 

[chrcoluk]

Sure tomorrow, its not tidy though.

Might be Wed or Thursday now, didnt really want to have to raise the case again of the floor, but annoyingly I forgot to connect the front fan to the board, so when I do that I will take a pic or two.

Ok took one at angle with it on floor. The SSDs and HDDs alternate as the power cables were too awkrawd one tray apart, SSDs cables are at back, HDDs at front, didi it this way so I can work on HDDs with just one panel off and couldnt be bothered to do excessive cable management, you might notice the loose rubber thing at base of case. Front fan (which you cant see) currently not connected to board, not big deal at the moment as its running with side panel off.

That little tiny card in the GPU slot is my AHCI adaptor which I pass through to the TrueNAS VM for the 4 HDD's. If expand this to more than 4 HDD's I will stick a second AHCI card in the 2nd gen 3 PCIe slot. This slot available as I am using the 5600G with integrated iGPU.



--

I decided to remove the 5 inch bays and move the HDD bays up, but seems my R5 is different to the release version.

I watched a bitwit video where he removed the 5 inch bays (the manual is really bad as is the website), and he had to remove one screw from each side plus 2 at the front of the bracket, then it popped out, I did the same but when I tried to move it, was stuck fast, I then noticed if I used enough pressure I was trying to remove all of the hdd compartments, stuck a camera in there, and on my version of the R5 the 5 inch compartment is secure with an extra 4 screws inside it to the compartment below it, what a farcical decision, would need a really short screwdriver to take them out, also my screw securing it at the back side I had to use pliers as it was pre stripped as well as extremely tight right up until it came out (never possible to turn it with fingers), looks like wasnt installed clean threaded. The front fan is now connected but because I cant move the drives up I will probably install another below it to cool the lowest drives. and then reinsert all those screws given I cant remove the 5 inch bay. Then it will be done, assuming I can get the front panel on, I may have to flip the spindles around which I am hoping to avoid..

Also on my R5 the built in fan controller cables arent visible. Dont know if I would have used it anyway as I like to see the fan status in software.

--

All done now, put an old cleaned R4 fan in so two intakes, had to hold up the 5 inch bay whilst screwing it back in otherwise 3.5inch bays dragged it out of line (why attach it to the other bays wtf), the main side panel went back on fine and easy, pretty much silent deffo an improvement over the P180, I took some videos on phone and more photos to send to fractal quality control.

If I expand the number of spindles in future, there is 2 bays at back for SATA SSDs, otherwise can chuck them in the 5 inch bay like they were on the P180.

 

[chrcoluk]

An update guys. Comical. The two SATA drive bay thingies at back of the board are actually not big enough for a 2.5inch SATA SSD.