GOG is taking a firm stance on DRM..

[newtekie1]

That’s forum talk. GOG has brought a huge number of games, including fairly recent, that had DRM before and now don’t have it. Whoever said that sure isn’t speaking for GOG, since what they said is counter to their history.

I think the issue is the aggressive DRM like Denuvo. I know they have games that used to use DRM but had it removed, but AFAIK none that have used Denuvo.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I think the issue is the aggressive DRM like Denuvo. I know they have games that used to use DRM but had it removed, but AFAIK none that have used Denuvo.

It’s definitely worth looking into.

 

[lexluthermiester]

heir scare tactic statement that DRM is a killswitch is wrong. Some DRM is, some is not.

So, in your own estimation, some of it is. Do you enjoy contradicting yourself?

No it wasn't, it wasn't cracked and distributed until September by CPY

Yes, it was. Google is your friend. Use it.

Yeah, they specifically said that because they have decided internally to not sell any game that has used Denuvo or other aggressive DRM in the past, even if the DRM has been removed. I assume this is to try to somehow punish any software developer that chooses to use DRM at all. Which, as you said, is dickish behavior.

Went looking for the thread you mentioned, didn't find it. Perhaps someone was posing as an employee or staff of GOG and the thread was deleted. Why would GOG cut themselves off like that? Doesn't make sense and is contrary to their historical S.O.P..

Finally, GOG is, IMO full of shit.

I think it's time for you to get out the mirror and take a long look into it.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I found 5 games on GOG formerly using Denuvo:

https://www.gog.com/mix/games_formerly_using_denuvo_antitamper

 

[DeathtoGnomes]

One thing not mentioned here about licensing, some EULA's basically say it can be revoked without a refund, Steam has a policy that can ban your account permanently and deny access to all the game you purchased and with no refund. I remember several games that would crash at the same spot if you have an illegal copy, this was intentional and could called your kill-switch. It is a form of DRM by the develops not the 3rd party apps that would be installed on your PC you agreed to when you accepted the EULA.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I found 5 games on GOG formerly using Denuvo:
https://www.gog.com/mix/games_formerly_using_denuvo_antitamper

I have two of those. So that theory is out the window.

 

[rtwjunkie]

I have two of those. So that theory is out the window.

I’ve got Rime, Syberia 3 and Sherlock Holmes and the Devil’s Daughter.

 

[Prince Valiant]

One thing not mentioned here about licensing, some EULA's basically say it can be revoked without a refund, Steam has a policy that can ban your account permanently and deny access to all the game you purchased and with no refund. I remember several games that would crash at the same spot if you have an illegal copy, this was intentional and could called your kill-switch. It is a form of DRM by the develops not the 3rd party apps that would be installed on your PC you agreed to when you accepted the EULA.

I presume this is exactly what GOG is referring to.

I find the campaign title to be overbearing but it's not like they're wrong about what matters. DRM free is always a better experience for the customer, no ifs or buts about it.

 

[newtekie1]

So, in your own estimation, some of it is. Do you enjoy contradicting yourself?

I'm not contradiction myself at all. I never said all DRM isn't a killswitch, I said their assertion that all DRM is a form of a killswitch is inaccurate. Some DRM can act as a killswitch, I never once said otherwise.

Yes, it was. Google is your friend. Use it.

I have, I can post the link to the article, but I'm pretty sure any site that talks about it isn't allowed here. Like I said, a fully function crack wasn't available until September. I know, I watched the pirate scene very closely waiting for a crack... The game was available to download on pirate sites almost immediately, but the full crack to play it wasn't available until September.

Went looking for the thread you mentioned, didn't find it. Perhaps someone was posing as an employee or staff of GOG and the thread was deleted. Why would GOG cut themselves off like that? Doesn't make sense and is contrary to their historical S.O.P..

I found 5 games on GOG formerly using Denuvo:

https://www.gog.com/mix/games_formerly_using_denuvo_antitamper

Yes, so it was either an employee that was speaking out of their ass, or GOG reversed their stance. Either way, good on GOG and I take back what I said about them.

 

[ZeppMan217]

wow, you guys really bought into GOG's PR show, huh?

 

[bug]

They might be trying to do the right thing, but trying to do the right thing in the wrong way isn't doing the right thing. Making blanket inaccurate statements in an effort to scare people into believing your opinion isn't doing the right thing, IMO.

As for DRM solving piracy, it did a pretty good job for iD. Doom wasn't cracked in the first 6 months, the most important time for a games sales, their sales numbers were great and likely better than they would have been without the DRM. No one knows if the extra sales offset the cost of licensing the DRM from Denuvo though. All we know is that it is highly likely that they got extra sales because the game wasn't cracked immediately after launch, it could have been one extra sale or a thousand, that no one can be sure about.

Finally, GOG is, IMO full of shit. I read somewhere on their forums(I'll have to try to find it again) from one of the employees that they have discussed trying to bring Doom 2016 to GOG, but decided to no even attempt to pursue it because it used Denovo DRM in the past. Even though it is completely DRM free now, and they acknowledge that they know it is now DRM free, because the game used DRM in the past, they won't consider selling the game. Fuck those assholes. Doom did exactly what GOG seems to want, they removed DRM, and GOG is still being dicks about it.

Yes, conducting your business the way you want, should be outlawed. We're not far from that point anyway.

wow, you guys really bought into GOG's PR show, huh?

I bought into their Witcher series and never regretted it.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I have, I can post the link to the article, but I'm pretty sure any site that talks about it isn't allowed here. Like I said, a fully function crack wasn't available until September. I know, I watched the pirate scene very closely waiting for a crack... The game was available to download on pirate sites almost immediately, but the full crack to play it wasn't available until September.

Actually, I did a bit more digging. The group "Skidrow" had a working crack for Doom on May 19th 2016, a mere 6 days after release. So yeah.. It was cracked quickly. DRM failed and did it affect sales? Very unlikely. What likely did limit sales was the presence of DRM in the first place.

 

[rtwjunkie]

wow, you guys really bought into GOG's PR show, huh?

And by this, you mean what, exactly? Many here have been long time users of GOG and have large drm-free libraries.

 

[newtekie1]

Actually, I did a bit more digging. The group "Skidrow" had a working crack for Doom on May 19th 2016, a mere 6 days after release. So yeah.. It was cracked quickly. DRM failed and did it affect sales? Very unlikely. What likely did limit sales was the presence of DRM in the first place.

No they didn't, even on the Skidrow website, they didn't have a fully working crack until the CPY crack that came out September 7th. They had the crack for the Doom beta, but not the full game. If you go to Skidrow's official website and search for Doom, the only 3 postings about it are the crack for the Beta, then then two posts about CPY finally fully cracking the main game, the first posting is in August when CPY announced they had cracked the game, and the 2nd is from September when CPY actually released the crack. Heck, you can go to the most popular pirate site and search for "Doom Skidrow"(without the quotes obviously) and the result is this:

Skidrow never cracked Doom 2016.

Also, the game Inside used Denuvo as well, and came out around the same time Doom did in 2016, Inside came out about a month and a half after Doom though. CPY cracked Inside just 6 weeks after it was released, and at the time this set the record for the faster time to crack a Denuvo game.

So, no, there wasn't a functioning crack for doom days after it was released. CPY figured out how to crack Denuvo, and started cracking games quickly after that, but until then Denuvo was pretty tough, and Doom had already been out for 4 months before a fully functional crack was put out by CPY.

At this point, I'm done wasting time on this topic. GOG is wrong to say all DRM is a kill switch, this is a fact. You don't seem to have a grasp on what DRM even means or is or even if it is effective or not and why. And I'm pretty sure you're just making things up at this point to try to make your argument look good. Because there is absolutely nothing, anywhere, that points to Doom being cracked before CPY in September.

 

[bug]

@newtekie1 Games should succeed because they're good, not because they can't be copied. That's what GOG stood for from day 1.

 

[Ahhzz]

@newtekie1 Games should succeed because they're good, not because they can't be copied. That's what GOG stood for from day 1.

can't argue with that at all.....

 

[lexluthermiester]

At this point, I'm done wasting time on this topic.

Ok, bye bye then.

@newtekie1 Games should succeed because they're good, not because they can't be copied. That's what GOG stood for from day 1.

Excellent point! And the strange thing I've noticed is that there isn't a lot of crap there, unlike other sites. Sure there are titles that will never interest some people and other titles which will never interest others, but as a whole it's kind tough to find crap games on GOG.

 

[denixius]

Surprise, surprise;
https://fckdrm.com/
The site name says it all, but it's worth a look and I love GOG for this.
First read about it on TH;
https://www.tomshardware.com/news/gog-reveals-fck-drm-initiative,37670.html

Sweet, GOG.

 

[Vayra86]

No they didn't, even on the Skidrow website, they didn't have a fully working crack until the CPY crack that came out September 7th. They had the crack for the Doom beta, but not the full game. If you go to Skidrow's official website and search for Doom, the only 3 postings about it are the crack for the Beta, then then two posts about CPY finally fully cracking the main game, the first posting is in August when CPY announced they had cracked the game, and the 2nd is from September when CPY actually released the crack. Heck, you can go to the most popular pirate site and search for "Doom Skidrow"(without the quotes obviously) and the result is this:

View attachment 105867

Skidrow never cracked Doom 2016.

Also, the game Inside used Denuvo as well, and came out around the same time Doom did in 2016, Inside came out about a month and a half after Doom though. CPY cracked Inside just 6 weeks after it was released, and at the time this set the record for the faster time to crack a Denuvo game.

View attachment 105868

So, no, there wasn't a functioning crack for doom days after it was released. CPY figured out how to crack Denuvo, and started cracking games quickly after that, but until then Denuvo was pretty tough, and Doom had already been out for 4 months before a fully functional crack was put out by CPY.

At this point, I'm done wasting time on this topic. GOG is wrong to say all DRM is a kill switch, this is a fact. You don't seem to have a grasp on what DRM even means or is or even if it is effective or not and why. And I'm pretty sure you're just making things up at this point to try to make your argument look good. Because there is absolutely nothing, anywhere, that points to Doom being cracked before CPY in September.

A few points of interest...

- Using TPB and saying 'the most popular pirate site'... yes five years ago. Did you look at the seeders/leechers and the lack of content over there yet? Or the dozens of false/fake mirror sites? TPB is the worst place to go these days. I won't link you six other sites that have over ten times more activity, but they exist. Moreover, what you see these days is less easy to find trackers and scene group websites that host all of this themselves, or at least the trackers. The scene is still as vibrant as it ever was, but it no longer prominently shows itself as it used to.

- You're quite right about Skidrow. The quality and actual content they put out isn't as good as it used to be and CPY, FLT, NOSTEAM and others do a much better job these days.

- DRM is effectively always a kill switch, until it gets circumvented. There are tons of examples, even of services that were never intended as DRM in the first place. GFWL would like a word... or SecuRom. Good luck playing your stuff without a crack for that - and some of these cracks involve faking a server to talk to, even today. What would happen if Steam suddenly never came back online? Yep... good luck with that. Steam was never intended as a kill switch, but can and will still act like one unless you crack it somehow, if you are unable to connect.

Even if only for that reason alone, I think piracy and these scene groups are vital to a healthy landscape when it comes to 'access' to products you paid for. It will always be a cat & mouse game, so be it. Its the lesser of evils IMO. And GoG is just another way of going about it, one I can also only applaud.

I think the issue is the aggressive DRM like Denuvo. I know they have games that used to use DRM but had it removed, but AFAIK none that have used Denuvo.

Denuvo essentially is a SaaS offering so you will see especially smaller games/devs remove it sooner rather than later. Its costly and if you don't have huge sales numbers, it quickly becomes unattractive to keep it active. So the reasoning behind removal isn't just 'It's GoG'... its a simple cost/benefits calculation too. It will always remain a question what really prompted removal of Denuvo. I honestly don't think the reason is 'we need to put the game on GoG'. That's giving them too much credit.