Guide me into a new case purchase 2016[talk about air flow, my Antec Skeleton and what's what]

[newconroer]

I am wanting your views on where to go with my next case purchase.

I know enough about airflow, to realize the purpose of intake /exhaust fans and how positioning can make a fair difference (particularly depending on the case being used).
I do not know enough about cfm and force to start doing actual mathematical calculations.

Part of me feels most cases, even mid or full ATX/BTX, despite potentially having plenty of space inside, are not ideal and can still create a hot environment - most noticeably when using more than one graphics card. I see that side panel completely covering the poor components inside, and start to get paranoid that they cannot breathe (maybe I need a therapist too, I'll make another thread for that later). At least with an open case, they have fresh air available to them at all times, regardless of air flow or fans.

Several years ago when I built Medusa, my plan was to forego a traditional case and aim towards a torture rack/test bed platform, which is more or less a horizontal setup with one or two layers stacked. The purpose was to :

A) Have something open ended, for easy access to components.
B) Have something with open airflow, as opposed to a closed case.

The Antec Skeleton achieved this very well, and after a little bit of modifying (I separated the top section so I could remove the top half and also strapped two 90mm fans to the front) I ended having a test bed type platform, which also seemed to offer better temperatures than a standard case.

I'd like to first query whether the flow of the air (based on components and fans) is correct and secondly talk about whether moving to a new, larger, more traditional case is going to be worth while.



Medusa's got the top side fan which I never felt made much of a difference, and as I understand physics(?), a fan blowing onto another fan blowing onto a surface, provides no benefit over the one fan already blowing on that surface.

The GPUs I have had in her were GTX 680s and R9 290s, as you know they come with top exhaust 'dump into the case' coolers.
I also appreciate that heat is meant to rise, so any heat that's going up, is either being slightly cooled by the top fan on it's way out, or the top fan is just blowing the hot air back down into the case (particularly right onto the graphics cards [and some of the CPU cooler]).

I added the two 90mm fans on the front, facing in reverse with the hope that as the hot air comes off the GPUs, and as it's rising, the front fans would suck the air out. I know there's argument over fan direction, because you can't reverse a fan per se, unless you modified the motor wiring. However on the fans they have a 'air flow this way' type arrow so I turned them around. I can feel them blowing on my hand. At first I thought well duh of course they are blowing on my hand, but are they also pulling out the hot air. I turned on some benchmarks, let the system get hot and then put my hand a few feet away from the case. Sure enough I could feel the warm air being blowing onto my hand. Without the fans there, there's heat at the case, but not a foot or two away(as with the fans).

Physics..didn't seem to be making sense at this point, and I couldn't really make a conclusive observation with temperatures to say that the fans made a difference for the actual component's heat measurement. I did convince myself that they would at least help with lowering the ambient case temperature, and thus kept them on.


Is that correct, can they function like that? Was it a good idea to add them? Is it fair to say that I could go further by adding a 120mm fan to the back that blows air in, pushing the GPU dump towards the front to be exhausted?
Is an open case really not ideal because it has less air flow control? Would I get the same performance by simply sticking the components on a piece of wood or plexiglass like a test bed.

If I do move onto a new case, it would have to be large(?). I'd prefer it to be horizontal based(I guess I can just lay them flat, does that defeat the purpose of heat rising to the exhaust fans at the top of most of these tower cases)? What becomes aggravating with large cases is that they are deep. Once you lay in that motherboard it's like a foundation and certain parts become a struggle to reach. In the end, it becomes frustrating to work on the system. I'd love to see a case where you could push the motherboard from the far/back side and it lifts on risers then locks in place so that it's elevated higher than the case edges - giving you full access.

Other specifics would be :

• Far sided cable management(with far side panel removal)
• No top to bottom caddy(I loathe those. They waste so much space at the front, and end up making it difficult to fit graphics cards, as well as hot swap hard drives)
• Placement of PSU (top or bottom) is not a concern, though I see bottom is popular now
• Whatever construction (aluminum, steel) gives the best cooling
• Noise is dependent upon how effective the heat management is. If you get a bit more noise, to gain a lot better cooling, then I'm for it. If you can find one that gives a lot better noise control, for only a little less cooling, that's good too.
• I love Silverstone PSUs, I remember they made some interesting cases?

I haven't mentioned budget numbers, because I really don't know what's worth paying for. I can see that 'nice' looking cases with lots of features are several hundred dollars/pounds, but that isn't telling me much as I am out of the loop.

 

[ASOT]

@newconroer
I use NZXT S340 Black and i'm impress how clean looks/fresh all inside.
Not to mention is compact and minimalistic design
I like no Bay 5.25" space..there ancient ))

Now is all about preference u have and money..

 

[Aquinus]

The Antec 1200 fits most of your criteria. I have one and it's a tank of a chassis. 6x120MM and 1x200mm fans move a lot of air and being a full chassis, offers a lot of room.

 

[newconroer]

@newconroer
I use NZXT S340 Black and i'm impress how clean looks/fresh all inside.
Not to mention is compact and minimalistic design
I like no Bay 5.25" space..there ancient ))


Now is all about preference u have and money..

Seems fair for the price, though the bottom portion..is that to enclose the power supply? Looks like a space waste?

The Antec 1200 fits most of your criteria. I have one and it's a tank of a chassis. 6x120MM and 1x200mm fans move a lot of air and being a full chassis, offers a lot of room.

I would pass on something like that. The top to bottom caddy is aggravating as hell when trying to work on the computer. I'd want the caddy to stop about halfway down leaving the bottom portion open for more fans, mini rads, pumps, or simply space.

 

[Aquinus]

Seems fair for the price, though the bottom portion..is that to enclose the power supply? Looks like a space waste?

I would pass on something like that. The top to bottom caddy is aggravating as hell when trying to work on the computer. I'd want the caddy to stop about halfway down leaving the bottom portion open for more fans, mini rads, pumps, or simply space.

They HDD trays are removable but the entire bracket is attached from top to bottom. I've seen some setups where the drive bays were removed and a 360 rad was bolted directly into the bracket. I was also able to fit my 390 behind bays with loaded drives. The fit was a little tight but it worked, so it depends on how much room you need. Consider how much I have to cram into this chassis too. I'm not saying the Antec 1200 is perfect, most definitely isn't but, for what you want out of your chassis, it fits a lot of your criteria so I figured I would bring it up.

I'm confused about this comment though:

though the bottom portion..is that to enclose the power supply?

It's not enclosed but, your right, there is extra space between the bottom most HDD bays and the PSU however, you'll be able to fit just about any sized PSU in this chassis as a result.

For someone like me though, I need places to mount all 5 HDDs and 2 SSDs.

For what it's worth, one doesn't typically complain about size when they're buying a full tower chassis.

 

[newconroer]

I understand, and a nice suggestion thank you. Looking at these two cases has at least put me into alignment with what else is similar in the market.
The Silverstone Raven RV05 looks interesting due to it's focus on top side exhausting and different orientation.

 

[Jetster]

Phanteks Evolv PH-ES515E

 

[newconroer]

Also the Carbide 540. I'm really digging these towers where the hard disks are dotted around in various places, instead of forcing them into a standard caddy position at the front.


Phanteks Evolv - ticks in the boxes for this one, though somewhat expensive
Carbide 540, ticks all the boxes and affordable
Fractal Design R5/S, tick a lot of boxes, nice cable management though seem more aimed at sound insulation and would be better suited for liquid cooling setups.
NXT S340 clean, simple, ticks most of the boxes as well as being cheapest
Silverstone Raven RV05 appreciate the motherboard orientation, looks to handle cooling well, though the Fortress FT02 seems better all around.

So far it's a toss up between the Carbide 540, Phanteks Primo or Evolv, FT02 and S340. Only thing that I hesitate with the Carbide 540, is the bottom and top has no filters - it's only at the front.

 

[newconroer]

Spent days, literally I believe now, trying to piece together what's best for my needs. Thanks definitely goes out to the likes of Dmitry at Hardware Canucks, and others.

I mean to update the thread with a final set of data/costs when I finally finish this, however for now, I've narrowed it down to four cases(out of a lot!). These are in order of total cost(not the case cost), which includes various pieces to make the case complete and ready to be used.
Any thoughts or experiences shared would be great.



1. Phanteks Pro M

Pros:

Cheapest of the three
Good air flow
Midi ATX
Lightweight
Uses the same interior design as the Phanteks Evolv, including the cable management
One optical drive bay
Air filters all around

Cons :

Cheap material(not what you expect from Phanteks)
Has only one fan (rear exhaust)
No fan pwm controller hub
No sound dampening material

Personal thoughts : This is like a build your own case type scenario. The bare bones is a great price, however the value is not. The cheap construction is a concern as well as the money needed to add appropriate fans, drive mounting and fan control
Additionally, no dampening.


2. Phanteks Pro (with prebuilt padding from the store selling it)

Pros :

Midi ATX
Relatively lightweight
Noticeably better construction materials than the Pro M
Similar interior design to Primo model and the later Evolv/Pro M
Pwm fan controller hub included
Comes with six 2.5/3.5 drive bays as a minimum as well as a the single 2.5 quick install caddy(also found on Pro M)
Drive caddies can be relocated or repositioned
Three optical drive bays
Air filters all around


Cons :

Little less air flow than the Pro M
Has one rear exhaust fan and one 200m at the front (which is not good enough on it's own)
The front intake panel has a grill on each side that leads air behind the front air filter, which will allow dust in

Personal thoughts : Possibly the best compromise of the cases listed, it has better construction, good interior design, sufficient air flow arrangement, can be purchased with dampening and is only slightly more expensive than the bare bones Pro M after all the fittings have been added.


3. Phanteks Evolv ATX

Pros :

Midi ATX
Relatively lightweight in contrast to a large all steel chassis
Best quality construction from Phanteks
Attractive looking
Comes standard with two Phanteks 140SP 140mm fans for intake and one for rear exhaust
Pwm fan controller hub included
Identical interior design to the Pro M, which is arguably the best by Phanteks to date
Comes with some thin dampening that lines the case around the perimeter where it meets the side panels.
Air filters all around

Cons :

Does not have the same exposed mesh grill front and top panels as the Pro and Pro M

Personal thoughts : This would be the winner if it had more air flow, or rather less intake restriction. It's not that much more than the pre padded Pro model, though the lack of air flow is concerning. Maybe in real world scenarios it won't make much difference, though I can't help but think Phanteks missed a trick here by not building either the top or bottom like the Pro/Pro M.


4. Cooler Master MasterCase Pro 5

Pros :

Midi ATX
Robust yet lightweight
Best air flow of the cases listed
Comes standard with three front intake fans(although they are 120mm) and the rear exhaust fan
Lots of modular features on par with the Phanteks
Air filters all around


Cons :

Not as aesthetically pleasing as the Phanteks
Cable management is not as tidy
No pwm fan controller hub
No dampening

Personal thoughts : The great air flow and flexible interior design make this case very appealing. Yet the lack of any noise dampening and the use of 120mm fans instead of 140mm fans makes this already somewhat ghastly looking case, to be less promising than it seems at first glance.





I am fairly confident it will be one of these four in the end. And of those, it's at the moment down to the Phanteks Pro with prebuilt dampening or the MasterCase Pro 5. While the Evolv is lovely and feature rich, it's lack of focus on air flow is concerning. It also has no ODD bays. And despite having two good intake fans out of the box, the total cost of the Phanteks Pro with pre built dampening, hard drive accessories and extra fans, is the same as the Evolv as it comes. Which means the only real benefit of the Evolv is the partial factory dampening and quality of materials/construction.

Pro M - 2 Aesthetics, 4 Acoustics, 2 Cooling, 1 Cost
Pro - 3 Aesthetics, 1 Acoustics, 3 Cooling, 3 Cost
Evolv - 1 Aesthetics, 2 Acoustics, 4 Cooling, 2 Cost
Mastercase - 4 Aesthetics, 3 Acoustics, 1 Cooling, 4 Cost

 

[newconroer]

Well, I was hoping this thread might evolve (or devolve) into a discussion on CFM, the truth about positive/negative pressure marketing (or fear mongering) and other miscellaneous thoughts. Fortunately I ran into a very helpful and experienced individual from Corsair who helped me. I didn't fall for the sales pitch on the Air 540, but that's ok : )

I decided on the Cooler Master Master Case Pro 5. It was easy to install and I like the options it gives.

• When you get the case, the accessories and screws are in a black box which is sitting in one of the 3.5" HDD trays in the basement. Do not try to pull this out with force. Remove the tray with the tool less buttons and then flex/spread one side of the tray away from the sides of the box. What they did was put holes in the box on each side then fit it into the HDD tray as if it were a 3.5" HDD.
  
• On the back side of the motherboard tray, there are two holes which seemingly have no listed purpose in the manual however were perfect for mounting a Phanteks fan hub onto. The screws supplied with the Phanteks hub, fit great.
  
• The handles at the top really do make a difference. Once the case is loaded and you have to move it around, even in the same 5x5 space, it's a boon.
  
• The removable fan rack/plate at the top of the case is super nice to work with. It not only lets you add and remove cooling options with ease away from the chassis, it also gives great access into the motherboard area.
  
• The top fan filter/shroud piece that comes standard with the Pro 5 version of the case, does not stick into place firmly. Even a little movement can make it come loose and slide back. Thus if you are going to carry the case, even if you are doing it by the handles, just be careful you definitely grab the handles.
  
• The length of the cable for the included rear exhaust fan is not particularly long. I feel this is an oversight on their part, though it has sufficient length to plug into a motherboard CHA_FAN (chassis fan) header.
  
• Noise is relative to fans and fan speed, though with stock (two intake, one exhaust), it's pretty quiet. Even at 100% duty, the fans are just a woosh of air. At normal operating speeds (around 800-850 RPM), you cannot hear them.
  
• The supplied fans do have a bit of a hiss and a drone if you put your ear to the case. I suspect this is because they are not particularly good quality.
  
• Cooling wise, it's been about the same as my open bench setup which is a positive. I can't really tell of any specific increase in ambience and during load, my top GPU is seeing a difference of +1-8 degrees. I run games at 96-120fps/hz, so 60c on the top card is OK with me at this point.

In summary, it does everything the reviews say and I think for some people they'll find little extra bonuses like I did. It's spacious, flexible, the construction is sturdy for the materials used and you get every thing in the box you need for a good system build foundation.

If there was anything I would change, it would be for them to find a way to allow you to install the third front intake fan, while retaining access to at least one 5.25" bay, or at least part of it. Slim fan controllers that are 5.25" form factor but do not take up the whole depth of the slot would be an example. This then would give you the extra fan and the controller sitting in front of it.

Should you be looking at two cases of equal cost, one being this Master Case, and are trying to decide - keep fans and fan quality in mind. Sometimes buying the case with the good fans is easier than buying one with mediocre fans and having to replace them any ways. I won't be replacing these any time soon, but I would have preferred something better.

Part of me is evil and wants to return it while I still can, to try out the Phanteks Evolve. However I feel all I'll get is a heavier case, less cooling(though better fans) and a higher dent in the wallet.
And at 99 quid, this was good value - some pictures included, will add more to the 'case picture page' some time soon when I learn how to cable manage

 

[newconroer]

Can someone quickly mention or think of a ATX supporting case that will allow 240 (or larger) radiator mounting (with fan vents underneath) at bottom of case?

Obsidian 750 came close but it doesn't quite fit.

Ideally looking to bottom mount a radiator, with intake from under the case, meanwhile the rest is business as usual with air intake at front and exhaust out the back and top.

 

[sneekypeet]

I seriously would suggest you go an look at the newer Thermaltake offerings.

 

[newconroer]

I seriously would suggest you go an look at the newer Thermaltake offerings.

Well I am not sold yet though this has got to be one of the best product videos ever

The information was useful and I was illin to some early 90s funk while watching.

Price on that and the larger F51 is only slightly more than a Define S.

 

[sneekypeet]

Suppressor is a tad more expensive than the other series' Thermaltake is offering now, but it is obviously because the Suppressor has added sound absorbing material. It does work well from personal experience, and that chassis is a beast, on par with build quality of the Define, and in my opinion, better build quality than most Corsair offerings.

 

[newconroer]

This is for another build which is silence+some liquid cooling, probably starting with a H100i GTX/H220/Predator 240for the CPU. I wanted to bottom mount it to free up the top fans for exhaust and still have the front fans doing normal intake without restriction. The bottom mounting seemed a good idea getting it's own fresh air supply from underneath, while not adding too much heat to the case.

What concerns me about this is that all the AIO have short cables as far as I am concerned and they will not reach the bottom of the case.

Also I am not sure how people get away with top mounting a radiator with a push pull setup. That's just sucking in hot air from the GPUs.

Define S gets close but you can't fit a 240 on the bottom. Fortunately you've shown me the TT stuff which may be a better way to go, but if the AIO cables are not long enough, then bottom mounting is a moot point.

I take it for the Thermaltake lineup, Core is the air flow oriented case and Suppressor is the damping/LCS range? Core V71 looks good (bit bulky though) for having all the options. Still frustrating that none of their cases support triple 140mm fans at the front.

Now if they only made a Suppressor F71.


EDIT: Some things that don't feel right about the TT Suppressor. Lack of cable management, wasted space on back side of motherboard tray ( could have fit two SSD there ). No front 140mm fan support. Apparently cheapie metal construction.


Tough choice vs Define S.