How to get into the modem settings through a router?

[qu4k3r]

Hi there...

I have 2 ISP's at home. So, I have one DSL modem (isp1), one Cable modem (isp2), two routers (one for each modem) and both routers are connected between themselves with utp cable.

Router 1 with DSL modem.
ip: 192.168.1.1
msk: 255.255.255.0
dhcp enable

Router 2 with Cable modem
ip: 192.168.1.2
msk: 255.255.255.0
dhcp disable

This way some devices use isp1 and others use isp2 and all they are in the same local network.

My pc uses router 2 so its gw is 192.168.1.2 and I can access cable modem settings just typing 192.168.100.1, and of course if you want to get into dsl modem must set 192.168.1.2 as your gw.

The problem (well is not really a problem) just a little bothersome to do.

If I want to enter into dsl modem settings, then I must to connect the modem directly to any pc without using a router, and fix network card settings to...

ip: 192.168.1.xxx
msk: 255.255.255.0
gw: 192.168.1.1

and type 192.168.1.1 to finally get into dsl modem settings.

Is there any way to get into modem settings, keeping the modem connected to the router 1?

I tryied changing the router 1 ip address to 192.168.1.3 but unsuccessfully.

Must I try changing the netowork range to 192.168.0.X ?
Maybe try another network class?

Any advice/sugestion is always welcome.
Thanks in advance.-

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Maybe the description is beyond me, buy exactly how in the heck is this even possible?

The likelihood that you've actually got 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2 as your outside IP addresses is absolutely nil. This means that you've kinda got a bastardized network connection going on here, where the routers have to negotiate the IP pools available to the private network, and then fight each other for connections. I don't even know how the heck this sounded like a good idea to you. Routers, at least consumer grade ones, don't really have load balancing functionality. You've got a rolling train-wreck of a connection.


What this functionally means is the routers fight over the IP pool. Once that's negotiated, they try to figure out the connection with the lowest routing hops (which will almost always be the cable modem). It then ignores the other line, and your DSL line is functionally a very expensive waste. Just because the device is plugged into router 1 doesn't mean it will magically use router 1's internet connection.

In short, stop doing this.




If you want an answer to what you should do, get a load balancer. Here's a brief (if very product minded) link to what I'm talking about: http://www.peplink.com/technology/internet-load-balancing/

Right now you're paying for two lines and not seeing the benefit (the connection between routers means that the slowest line is ignored, which unless the service fails will always be the cable modem.). A load balancer doesn't just map the path of minimum hops, but utilizes the WAN connections such as to produce the best possible combined throughput.



To your original question, kinda. If your router supports assigned IPs you can set the tables to the same thing in both routers, but even then the basic firmware might not properly access the routers just by typing in the IP. As far as resetting the modem, good luck. Most modems don't allow configuration without a direct connection, let alone the bizarre topology you're describing.

 

[qu4k3r]

Maybe the description is beyond me, buy exactly how in the heck is this even possible?

The likelihood that you've actually got 192.168.1.1 and 192.168.1.2 as your outside IP addresses is absolutely nil. This means that you've kinda got a bastardized network connection going on here, where the routers have to negotiate the IP pools available to the private network, and then fight each other for connections. I don't even know how the heck this sounded like a good idea to you. Routers, at least consumer grade ones, don't really have load balancing functionality. You've got a rolling train-wreck of a connection.


What this functionally means is the routers fight over the IP pool. Once that's negotiated, they try to figure out the connection with the lowest routing hops (which will almost always be the cable modem). It then ignores the other line, and your DSL line is functionally a very expensive waste. Just because the device is plugged into router 1 doesn't mean it will magically use router 1's internet connection.

In short, stop doing this.

I know this topology sounds pretty ghetto weird but works fine for me. I mean every device with ip settings set to auto will connect to isp1. If you want to use isp2 then fix ip settings to gw2. Pcs with dhcp enable will use isp1, and pcs with dhcp disbale will use isp that you choose. That's the idea, different devices using different isp's, and I assure you that it works ok.

For p2p apps you can use both isp's if you want to, by setting first gw1 manually then adding gw2 as additional gw.

I dont't have any problem with that. I did it beacuase I didn't want to buy a multiwan router, that's all. Even a cheap like these:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SYQBN8/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DBX9HPC/?tag=tec06d-20

I took that idea from these...
http://www.foxtwo.org/blog/2011/04/how-to-combine-2-isps-into-1-home-network/
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20047171-2-Gateways-2-ISPs-2-Routers-1-Network
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19375237-

If you want an answer to what you should do, get a load balancer. Here's a brief (if very product minded) link to what I'm talking about: http://www.peplink.com/technology/internet-load-balancing/

Right now you're paying for two lines and not seeing the benefit (the connection between routers means that the slowest line is ignored, which unless the service fails will always be the cable modem.). A load balancer doesn't just map the path of minimum hops, but utilizes the WAN connections such as to produce the best possible combined throughput.

To your original question, kinda. If your router supports assigned IPs you can set the tables to the same thing in both routers, but even then the basic firmware might not properly access the routers just by typing in the IP. As far as resetting the modem, good luck.

Both routers have dd-wrt and I tried to do a multiwan config in order to use just one router, but I don't really understand scripts and things like that which are needed to do ti. Also tried open-wrt and was the same story.

You mean routing tables, right? Well, I don't fully understand how it works but if you say that I can do what I asked first by setting routing tables on the router 1, then it's worth trying. Any tip about it?

Most modems don't allow configuration without a direct connection...

Ok, I suppose that's the anwser I needed. Thanks anyway

 

[jboydgolfer]

you USEd to be able to do this , but AFAIK makers have shut out the user from the web UI..,. or.....192.168.100.1 log in and user are both "user" ? maybe

apparently makers HAVENT shut out users, or atleast ALL users, my old modem stopped letting me in, but my surfboard DOES let me in.

 

[Aquinus]

You need a router capable of doing custom routing rules using something like NAT. I could do this with my linux gateway server but a standard consumer router probably can't. Having two ISPs is going to cost a lot more than paying for a better plan on just one of them and you need the hardware to drive it.

 

[newtekie1]

Try changing your DSL's modem to something outside the 192.168.1.X subnet. So change it to 192.168.2.1. Also, make sure router1 is receiving a 192.168.2.X address, not a public address. This way router1 will know where to router requests for 192.168.2.1.

Also, unless you have manually set the gateway to 192.168.100.1 on router2, simply forcing the gateway on your PC to point to router2 won't actually use the second connection, it will still use the first.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Router 1 should be set up using PPPoE so the ADSL hardware acts as a gateway--the router handles the connection. All you should need to do is enter the username (usually the full email address for the primary account) and the password for said account and it should log in. The advantage of using PPPoE is that port forwarding/virtual server is a breeze to set up.

You may or may not be able to access the ADSL hardware using PPPoE. You'd have to know the IP address. My router is on 192.168.0.1 and the ADSL hardware is at 192.168.1.254 (never changes--direct connect or not).

 

[qu4k3r]

@jboydgolfer My cable modem is an old motorola surfboard sb4100. If I connect it directly to pc and tpc/ip properties of the pc are set to auto, then the pc gets public IP and have internet connection. While cable modem is connected directly to pc, I have to manually set gw to 192.168.100.1 to get into modem settings, and of course doesn't have internet connection.

However, if I connect the sb4100 to any router, then have to manually set gw to 192.168.1.2 and just type 192.168.100.1 to get into cable modem settings.

I don't know if I made myself clear at first post, but this is what I want to do with dsl modem.
By the way, this cable modem never asks user/pass to get into it.


@Aquinus What I understand as NAT is... translate public address into private address, or a private address into another private address. For example: if any app at any pc is using a specific port/service, then use NAT to forward or "transfer" that service/port (from a public address at the wan/external side of the router) to a private address at the lan/internal side of the router. Both routers have options for NAT, advance routing, static routes (routing tables).

So I don't get how NAT can help me to do what I want to.

Try changing your DSL's modem to something outside the 192.168.1.X subnet. So change it to 192.168.2.1. Also, make sure router1 is receiving a 192.168.2.X address, not a public address. This way router1 will know where to router requests for 192.168.2.1

I was thinking about it, but I forgot to mention a detail.

When I connect the dsl modem directy to pc, if tcp/ip properties of the pc are set to auto, then pc gets public ip and have internet connection. But if tcp/ip properties are set to manual (gw is 192.168.1.1) I can get into dsl modem config but have no internet connection.

So I guess if router 1 receives private address then I can access to dsl modem config but will not have internet connection, but I will try anyways.

Also, unless you have manually set the gateway to 192.168.100.1 on router2, simply forcing the gateway on your PC to point to router2 won't actually use the second connection, it will still use the first.

Both routers have "wan connection type" set to "auto-dhcp", they are receiving public addresses from both modems.

Lan settings of both routers...

Router 1 with DSL modem.
ip: 192.168.1.1
msk: 255.255.255.0
gw: 192.168.1.1
dhcp server: enable

Router 2 with Cable modem
ip: 192.168.1.2
msk: 255.255.255.0
gw:192.168.1.2
dhcp server: disable


@FordGT90Concept I guess my dsl company does not use PPPoE, I always use DHCP as wan connection type. I tried to set PPPoE on router 1 with email account and pass as you said but gets no internet connection, not even wan ip address.


Thanks to everybody for your answers.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Try without the @domain, just your username and password.

 

[Aquinus]

So I don't get how NAT can help me to do what I want to.

Port forwarding is accomplished by using NAT. With something like IPTables, you can use NAT to redirect traffic to someone internally on the network. NAT is probably the only thing that's going to let you divvy traffic between two connections while staying on the same subnet. Static routes will help you if you have two subnets, one with access to one connection, and another subnet with access to the other but, then you basically still have two networks instead of one. Having a router that can handle both ISP connections would be in order if you wanted a single network with both connections on it.

 

[newtekie1]

A lot of DSL providers don't use PPPoE anymore. In my area, AT&T stopped supporting it back when they stopped giving out Speedstream modems.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Most do. Even AT&T disagrees with you.

The ISP may have a similar resource to AT&T which will help accomplish this.

I've tried different things for days even accessing the command prompt functionality of my Netopia gateway and PPPoE came out working the best.

 

[brandonwh64]

Maybe I missed it in some of the posts but why do you have two ISPs?

 

[taz420nj]

Most do. Even AT&T disagrees with you.

The ISP may have a similar resource to AT&T which will help accomplish this.

I've tried different things for days even accessing the command prompt functionality of my Netopia gateway and PPPoE came out working the best.

Agreed, PPPoE is still the DSL standard, and it even carries over to non-Verizon fiber providers.

However PPPoE is not in play here because the router is not doing the DSL connection. The modem uses PPPoE to connect to the ISP, but it does standard DHCP to assign an internal IP to the WAN port of the router. The connection type would ONLY be set to PPPoE and require login credentials if the router had a DSL modem built in, or if it were connected to an ethernet port on a fiber provider's ONT.

I am just baffled as to why the OP is doing what he is doing. You have been asked already and have not provided an answer - why do you need to do this?

I sort of see the 'logic' in the setup - where you only want automatically assigned addresses to go through one router and statically assigned addresses to go through the other.. The "why" is beyond me without an explanation from you, but I see what you're trying to do. You're having issues because of the configurations causing conflicts. The way the routers are set up they are not allowing internal LAN addresses to be routed through the WAN port to the modems. The IP that Surfboards and many other modems use for their configuration page is different from the actual device IP - 192.168.100.1 is specifically allowed to be passed through the WAN port of most residential routers, even though it is in the "private" IP range. This is specifically to avoid problems accessing the page from behind the common setup of having the modem in front of a router. The DSL modem's configuration page IP however is not - its configuration page is on the same subnet as the router, which means the router will not pass LAN traffic destined for it through the WAN port. If you were using two DSL modems, you wouldn't be able to access either of them. If you had two Surfboards, you wouldn't be able to access either of them as well, because there would be an IP conflict, since both pages are at the same IP.

 

[newtekie1]

Most do. Even AT&T disagrees with you.

The ISP may have a similar resource to AT&T which will help accomplish this.

I've tried different things for days even accessing the command prompt functionality of my Netopia gateway and PPPoE came out working the best.

Doesn't work in my area, I've tried it. Though they also don't offer "DSL" in my area anymore, only u-verse, and have started doing force "upgrades" to people. So maybe that is why they don't allow PPPoE anymore.

Anyway, it isn't necessary at this point since the OP's modem is already giving him a public IP. So if PPPoE is at work, it is already configured in his modem.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

He should be able to get the username from the gateway assuming he can get past the admin credentials. Worst case scenario, you should be able to call them for the internet connection credentials.

The point of using PPPoE in the router is there is no longer any reason to access the gateway--the router does everything and only uses the hardware in the gateway to bridge the networks. As proof, here's my gateway and router. Note how the gateway is clueless but the router knows everything:

 

[newtekie1]

Since his gateway is assigning a public IP to the router, there really isn't any reason to access the gateway anyway...

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Except that the NAT functionality of the gateway destroys all port forwarding capabilities.

Even so, the gateway's IP address will be the default gateway for the router. If he tries to go to the default gateway's IP, it should get him the gateway's web admin page. If it does not, I have to assume that the gateway is detecting the request is not coming from the same subnet as the gateway and therefore blocks it for security reasons. In which case, PPPoE would be better anyway because it takes gateway configuration out of the picture; at the same time, using PPPoE, you cannot see detailed statistics in the gateway like line attenuation and signal to noise ratio.


I think the ultimate solution would be to buy a commercial router that supports two WANs. They're ridiculously expensive though.

 

[qu4k3r]

Maybe I missed it in some of the posts but why do you have two ISPs?

I have 2 ISPs is because I want isp2 connection just for me. I don't want to share it with my brother (he lives with me) and/or people who visit us at home. They use isp1 connection.

If isp1 fails, then disable DHCP server and turn off wifi on router 1, and enable DHCP server and turn on wifi on router 2.

If isp2 fails, then just change my tpc/ip properties of my pc to use gw1 instead of gw2.

Both routers equally configured, with same IP reserved address based on MAC, and same port forward, same QoS, etc... This is like a manual fail-over, sort of speaking.

I am just baffled as to why the OP is doing what he is doing. You have been asked already and have not provided an answer - why do you need to do this?

The reason I want to get into dsl modem settings so often is for collecting data for stats about SNR and Attn. That's all.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Since it is just you using that ADSL connection, why not eliminate the router altogether? That way you have easy access to SNR and line attenuation and NAT won't be a problem. If you have a wireless devices too, you could install a wireless card in your desktop and have your wireless devices connect through your computer:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/turn-windows-wifi-hotspot-share-internet-connection/

 

[qu4k3r]

Since it is just you using that ADSL connection, why not eliminate the router altogether? That way you have easy access to SNR and line attenuation and NAT won't be a problem. If you have a wireless devices too, you could install a wireless card in your desktop and have your wireless devices connect through your computer:
http://www.makeuseof.com/tag/turn-windows-wifi-hotspot-share-internet-connection/

I need all devices we have at home to be in the same subnet. I have a media server on my pc for streaming movies to smart tv, among others.

Install a wireless card for my desktop is not necessary. I finally solved it in a different way. I found an old 8 port switch in the closed, and just added it between dsl modem and router1 wan port. My second machine have dual lan ports. First port with dynamic IP is always on and connected to router1 lan port, second port with static IP is always off and connected to the dsl modem through the switch.

Second port settings are:
ip: 192.168.1.xxx
msk: 255.255.255.0
gw: 192.168.1.1

If I want to check SNR and Attn... then just turn off first lan port and turn on second lan port.
In that way can get access to dsl modem instead of router1.-

Thanks to all of you

 

[taz420nj]

I have 2 ISPs is because I want isp2 connection just for me. I don't want to share it with my brother (he lives with me) and/or people who visit us at home. They use isp1 connection.

If isp1 fails, then disable DHCP server and turn off wifi on router 1, and enable DHCP server and turn on wifi on router 2.

If isp2 fails, then just change my tpc/ip properties of my pc to use gw1 instead of gw2.

Both routers equally configured, with same IP reserved address based on MAC, and same port forward, same QoS, etc... This is like a manual fail-over, sort of speaking.


The reason I want to get into dsl modem settings so often is for collecting data for stats about SNR and Attn. That's all.

I wasn't questioning why you want to get into the config pages, I was not understanding the reasoning behind having two separate ISPs to your house.. Honestly even after that explanation I still don't understand. Why is to so important that your brother not be able to use "your" ISP yet still be on the same LAN?

I also don't understand why you are so dead-set against doing it the right way, using a router solution capable of failover/CARP/load balancing, choosing instead to operate this kludge that will never work right and requires you to do all sorts of weird crap any time you want to check on the DSL modem or if an ISP drops.

 

[skippy258]

I know this topology sounds pretty ghetto weird but works fine for me. I mean every device with ip settings set to auto will connect to isp1. If you want to use isp2 then fix ip settings to gw2. Pcs with dhcp enable will use isp1, and pcs with dhcp disbale will use isp that you choose. That's the idea, different devices using different isp's, and I assure you that it works ok.

For p2p apps you can use both isp's if you want to, by setting first gw1 manually then adding gw2 as additional gw.

I dont't have any problem with that. I did it beacuase I didn't want to buy a multiwan router, that's all. Even a cheap like these:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B005SYQBN8/?tag=tec06d-20
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00DBX9HPC/?tag=tec06d-20

I took that idea from these...
http://www.foxtwo.org/blog/2011/04/how-to-combine-2-isps-into-1-home-network/
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r20047171-2-Gateways-2-ISPs-2-Routers-1-Network
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r19375237-



Both routers have dd-wrt and I tried to do a multiwan config in order to use just one router, but I don't really understand scripts and things like that which are needed to do ti. Also tried open-wrt and was the same story.

You mean routing tables, right? Well, I don't fully understand how it works but if you say that I can do what I asked first by setting routing tables on the router 1, then it's worth trying. Any tip about it?

Ok, I suppose that's the answer I needed. Thanks anyway

You will find life easier if you do just buy a new router I have a Dual WAN router makes life easier for when you want the second connection plus it has a load of great functions also load control so you get the most out of both connections.



Edit: Also you can use your old ADSL or Cable Router to connect to the Ethernet port, what I do is turn the old router into a bridge I use (ADSL 8gb down /up 356mhz ADSL primary ) and (wireless 12gb down /up 1gb or 24gb down /up 2gb) as a 2nd backup