i5 11400F vr build need advice with board+ram

[ecologist]

hi everybody,
I am building a vr rig (quest2) and chose the i5 11400F (£150). I need advice with selecting the right board and ram. I live in UK, can shop at SCAN/Amazon/Ebuyer/.., my cpu+mobo+ram budget is £400. not interested in overclocking/watercooling.

I have narrowed it down to these 3 boards:
1. msi-mag-b560m-mortar-wifi (£130)
2. gigabyte-b560m-aorus-pro-ax (£140)
3. asus-tuf-gaming-b560m-plus-wifi (£140)

they all fit my requirements of wifi, 2.5GBe, usb-c, 2+ usb3. however I have a few questions about this platform:

1. ram gear: its my understanding that the i5 will not be able to run ram faster than 2933MHz in gear 1, but in Digital Foundary's review of this i5 they used the msi mortar and were able to run 3600MHz ram in gear 1, which is why I am inclined to buy this board. the gigabyte ram support list mentions downgrading ram to 2933MHz on non-k cpus. so should I buy the msi just for this reason. as I actually prefer the gigabyte board.

2. ram speed: is 3200MHz enough for this i5 or should I buy 3600MHz kit. please suggest 16GB ram kits to go with this i5, I really do not know which kit to pick as I don't know if a 3600MHz 18-22-22-42 kit is better or a 3200MHz 16-20-20-38 or a 3200MHz 18-22-22-42. currently these are the kits I am looking at:
1. corsair-ddr4-vengeance-rgb-pro-black-pc4-25600-3200 (£89)
2. HyperX-Fury-HX432C16FB3K2 (£83)
3. HyperX-HX432C16PB3K2-16-Predator (£80)

Digital Foundary's review recommended high speed ram but they were able to run it in gear1 somehow.

3.cpu power: only the msi board requires 24pin + 8pin + 4pin for cpu power, the other 2 boards only require 24pin + 8pin power. can someone explain this to me, does this mean the msi board is inferior somehow?

4. uatx vs atx: is the vrm on all 3 boards good enough? other than more ports/usb is there any other reason to consider a full atx board?

cheers everybody!

 

[Nash]

cpu+mobo+ram budget is £400. not interested in overclocking/watercooling.

I have narrowed it down to these 3 boards:
1. msi-mag-b560m-mortar-wifi (£130)
2. gigabyte-b560m-aorus-pro-ax (£140)
3. asus-tuf-gaming-b560m-plus-wifi (£140)

they all fit my requirements of wifi, 2.5GBe, usb-c, 2+ usb3.

Toss a coin, all three of those are suitable motherboards. Asus, then Gigabyte, then MSI. I like Asus slightly more than Gigabyte, MSI is somewhat equal to Gigabyte. More or less!
You won't need 3600mhz clocked memory with Intel CPU's, get the cheaper (RGB'd!) 3200/3000mhz.

3.cpu power: only the msi board requires 24pin + 8pin + 4pin for cpu power, the other 2 boards only require 24pin + 8pin power. can someone explain this to me, does this mean the msi board is inferior somehow?

Intel spec's how many, what size, and the distances/layers for power to the CPU, the least hardy implementation (24+8?) must meet the specifications. MSI's tracing patterns or some other components may have dictated more. I don't think it's inferior, it's just different.

4. uatx vs atx: is the vrm on all 3 boards good enough? other than more ports/usb is there any other reason to consider a full atx board?

MATX should normally be EQUAL with it's ATX mate when one exists.
ATX needs a mini-tower case. The MATX board can be fitted into a smaller 'SFF' case.
If space allows for an ATX chassis, the larger interior combined with more/slower fans, outfitted properly can run quieter and cooler.
VRM - there are 4000 different motherboards for current CPU's! Intel says the 11400F is a 65 watt CPU, the VRM on these boards will be fine.

Do yourself a favor, purchase a recent model of a high-quality power supply!

 

[eidairaman1]

Power supply, Seasonic or Super Flower Based design.

 

[ecologist]

thanks for the replies Nash and eidairaman1.
my main concerns are:
1. will I be able to run 3200/3600mhz memory in gear 1 mode with this non-k i5 on any of these boards or is it just the msi mortar?
2. is it worth buying a 3600 17-21-21 kit for £105 over a 3200 16-18-18-36 kit for £83

 

[Nash]

thanks for the replies Nash and eidairaman1.
my main concerns are:
1. will I be able to run 3200/3600mhz memory in gear 1 mode with this non-k i5 on any of these boards or is it just the msi mortar?
2. is it worth buying a 3600 17-21-21 kit for £105 over a 3200 16-18-18-36 kit for £83

It's up to you, there are no guarantees. Any of the boards 'should' run it if the BIOS offers that selection. The Gskill memory I have in this computer runs at 3600, changing it to that speed requires the BIOS to restart three times. It will run at a higher speed but it's unstable. The benchmarks I ran only got 3% better so I set it to 3200. The DF guy says "yes" he's all for it, others aren't.

Those two modules are pretty much equal in my eyes, if the $22 difference is worth it to you for the 3600Mhz, go for it.

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

As far as the boards my preference goes with the Asus.

1. will I be able to run 3200/3600mhz memory in gear 1 mode with this non-k i5 on any of these boards or is it just the msi mort

3600 should usually work in gear 1 from my experience though it might be fiddly...

is it worth buying a 3600 17-21-21 kit for £105 over a 3200 16-18-18-36 kit for £83

No, if you want better performance through memory you should just forget everything else and get b-die... Patriot 4000 19-19-19 is a fine starting point but will need a bit of tuning to make the most of. Otherwise 3200 14-14-14 are usually the next cheapest option for b-die to tune.

 

[Why_Me]

thanks for the replies Nash and eidairaman1.
my main concerns are:
1. will I be able to run 3200/3600mhz memory in gear 1 mode with this non-k i5 on any of these boards or is it just the msi mortar?
2. is it worth buying a 3600 17-21-21 kit for £105 over a 3200 16-18-18-36 kit for £83

3200Mhz CL16 RAM. You can get a cheap set of Corsair 16GB on Ebuyer ... 72 quid last time I checked. Make sure you have a decent cpu cooler so that you can run that cpu with the power limits turned off ... it's a round a bout way of OC that cpu. Overclockers UK usually has some decent deals on Scythe cpu coolers.

 

[ecologist]

3200Mhz CL16 RAM. You can get a cheap set of Corsair 16GB on Ebuyer ... 72 quid last time I checked. Make sure you have a decent cpu cooler so that you can run that cpu with the power limits turned off ... it's a round a bout way of OC that cpu. Overclockers UK usually has some decent deals on Scythe cpu coolers.

thank you.
1. so vr would not benefit from 3600Mhz cl16 or cl18 over 3200Mhz cl16 (same price)?
2. regarding cooling/power, I am reusing older parts for the rest of the build, are these sufficient:
cooler: Hyper TX3 EVO
psu: Thermaltake Toughpower XT 575W
gpu: Galax RTX 2060

 

[Why_Me]

thank you.
1. so vr would not benefit from 3600Mhz cl16 or cl18 over 3200Mhz cl16 (same price)?
2. regarding cooling/power, I am reusing older parts for the rest of the build, are these sufficient:
cooler: Hyper TX3 EVO
psu: Thermaltake Toughpower XT 575W
gpu: Galax RTX 2060

These 11 gen Intel cpu's don't benefit from 3600Mhz RAM. They benchmarked ten games (youtube) with an 11400F and it was an even split between the 3200 and 3600 RAM. That Hyper TX3 isn't going to cut it imo. These 11 gen cpu's are power hogs when they go into turbo boost mode.

https://www.scan.co.uk/products/dee...-single-tower-aluminium-fins-4x-heatpipes-int <--- something like this.

https://www.overclockers.co.uk/scythe-scmg-5100-mugen-5-rev.b-cpu-cooler-hs-046-sy.html <--- and something like this if you plan on turning off the PL in the bios.

Review of that cpu. Look for Core i5 11400F + Opt on the benchmarks.

https://www.guru3d.com/articles-pages/intel-core-i5-11400f-processor-review,1.html

 

[GorbazTheDragon]

I would recommend getting a better quality PSU

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The Aorus Pro and MSI Mortar have have much better VRMs than the TUF.... The Mortar is better than the Bazooka on this list.



All will handle the 11400F easily but the MSI and Gigabyte board will run much cooler doing it in the vrm area if that matters to you and if you ever upgrade to an 11900F down the line you won't have to worry about removing power limits.

3200 should be easy gear 1.... Min 16-18-18-36 timings but preferably 14-14-14-34.
B die which is 3200 CL14 can be overclocked pretty damn easily and you can easily test if 3600 gear 1 works on your cpu once you get a good handle of the platform.



Don't skimp on the psu get a high quality one from a reputable brand.... Something like a Seasonic focus GX.


None of the boards require more than 24 and 8 pin power the MSI board just allows you to overclock something like an 11900k or 10900k to the max.
Basically the MSI board allows for 385w to be pushed to the cpu vs 235w on the other two boards good luck cooling over 250w though but current high end intel cpu can hit over 300w overclocked.
I think even stock they can hit 250w for brief periods.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

Pick either the Gigabyte or the MSI, both of them have 12 phase 50amps stages for the CPU, the Asus tuf has only 8.

You dont need any higher than 3200mhz for intel

pick this one

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-Ballistix-BL2K8G32C16U4B-Desktop-Gaming/dp/B083TRRT16/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=crucial+ddr4&qid=1624839941&sr=8-2

3.cpu power: only the msi board requires 24pin + 8pin + 4pin for cpu power, the other 2 boards only require 24pin + 8pin power. can someone explain this to me, does this mean the msi board is inferior somehow?

Its just purely marketing, non k CPUs dont need more than one 8 pin connector

4. uatx vs atx: is the vrm on all 3 boards good enough? other than more ports/usb is there any other reason to consider a full atx board?

The asus has inferior VRM as i said above, ATX size dont mean better quality, its just more pci connectors and better support for dual GPUs or more, like a mining rig

 

[joemama]

As long as the boards have proper heatsinks on the VRM, it should run a F CPU with no problems.
Not sure how the Intel boards limit the RAM overclock though but Intel systems don't benefit much from RAM speeds, so just get a cheap 3200 kit.
The VRM of these boards should be more than enough for you, afterall you're only using a 11400F and it doesn't draw much power.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

The VRM of these boards should be more than enough for you, afterall you're only using a 11400F and it doesn't draw much power.

They are equally priced, might as well get the one with the best VRM

 

[ecologist]

+1 to GorbazTheDragon, oxrufiioxo, Solid State Soul, joemama posts. thanks for the info, it looks like its not worth voiding warranty to run 3600Mhz as its only a few fps more than 3200mhz.

1. I ordered this HyperX FURY 3200Mhz CL16 kit. let me know what you think, are the corsair/crucial/gskill/patriot equivalents better (all same price)?

I can't find 3200 CL14 for similar prices.

You dont need any higher than 3200mhz for intel
pick this one
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Crucial-Ba...1&keywords=crucial+ddr4&qid=1624839941&sr=8-2

the ballistix has only 1 xmp profile (the 3200mhz) the HyperX FURY has 2 xmp profiles (3000 and 3200mhz).

2. the msi mortar has Wifi6E AX210 while the other boards have only Wifi6 AX200. I found that only Wifi6E actually broadcasts over 6GHz, Wifi6 non-E does not (only 2.4 and 5GHz). is this important enough to get the msi over the asus/gigabyte, whats your opinions on Wifi6E vs Wifi6 non-E?

3. Also, the MSI mortar and Gigabyte Aorus both have tpm headers, unlike the Asus TUF. it looks like it may be a requirement to run Windows 11 except for "special Windows builds" From the article: "Installing Windows 11 on a system without TPM enabled will require special approval from Microsoft".
the header is not the actual tpm module though right?

4. I found this £105 asus B560m prime-A it lacks wifi and has only 10Gbps type-c but same vrm as TUF. is it worth saving £35 and going asus?

 

[tabascosauz]

+1 to GorbazTheDragon, oxrufiioxo, Solid State Soul, joemama posts. thanks for the info, it looks like its not worth voiding warranty to run 3600Mhz as its only a few fps more than 3200mhz.

1. I ordered this HyperX FURY 3200Mhz CL16 kit. let me know what you think, are the corsair/crucial/gskill/patriot equivalents better (all same price)?

I can't find 3200 CL14 for similar prices.

the ballistix has only 1 xmp profile (the 3200mhz) the HyperX FURY has 2 xmp profiles (3000 and 3200mhz).

2. the msi mortar has Wifi6E AX210 while the other boards have only Wifi6 AX200. I found that only Wifi6E actually broadcasts over 6GHz, Wifi6 non-E does not (only 2.4 and 5GHz). is this important enough to get the msi over the asus/gigabyte, whats your opinions on Wifi6E vs Wifi6 non-E?

3. Also, the MSI mortar and Gigabyte Aorus both have tpm headers, unlike the Asus TUF. it looks like it may be a requirement to run Windows 11 except for "special Windows builds" From the article: "Installing Windows 11 on a system without TPM enabled will require special approval from Microsoft".
the header is not the actual tpm module though right?

4. I found this £105 asus B560m prime-A it lacks wifi and has only 10Gbps type-c but same vrm as TUF. is it worth saving £35 and going asus?

2. Do you actually have decent (read: not lower-end than a RT-AX58U at the very least) AX routers at home? If not, all this is a moot point, you will still be limited to 802.11n or 802.11ac speeds which I'm assuming is what you have now. And with AX so far, my impressions are that range is poor compared to decent AC routers, on all but the most expensive AX routers. That said, 6E *may* see better adoption than 6 so far has, but that's still just speculating.

3. I wonder how many times we're going to have to correct this stupid myth before it dies off. Firmware-based TPM works just fine, all Intel chipsets from like the past 3 years have Platform Trust Technology (PTT) built into the PCH, which essentially emulates a TPM's features. That's enough for Windows 11, you just have to enable PTT in BIOS.

4. Unless my eyes deceive me, that is most DEFINITELY NOT the TUF's VRM. Those are discrete MOSFETs up top unheatsinked, knowing Asus it's probably SiRA12/14 garbage. The TUF may get hot with an 8-core, but will still handle a 6-core with ease. The Prime board is hot garbage, stay away. Looks like false advertising to me as well, 8 phases of doubled low-side discretes are not "8 power stages" like Asus claims.

 

[Nash]

+1 to GorbazTheDragon, oxrufiioxo, Solid State Soul, joemama posts. thanks for the info, it looks like its not worth voiding warranty to run 3600Mhz as its only a few fps more than 3200mhz.

1. I ordered this HyperX FURY 3200Mhz CL16 kit. let me know what you think, are the corsair/crucial/gskill/patriot equivalents better (all same price)?

I can't find 3200 CL14 for similar prices.

the ballistix has only 1 xmp profile (the 3200mhz) the HyperX FURY has 2 xmp profiles (3000 and 3200mhz).

2. the msi mortar has Wifi6E AX210 while the other boards have only Wifi6 AX200. I found that only Wifi6E actually broadcasts over 6GHz, Wifi6 non-E does not (only 2.4 and 5GHz). is this important enough to get the msi over the asus/gigabyte, whats your opinions on Wifi6E vs Wifi6 non-E?

3. Also, the MSI mortar and Gigabyte Aorus both have tpm headers, unlike the Asus TUF. it looks like it may be a requirement to run Windows 11 except for "special Windows builds" From the article: "Installing Windows 11 on a system without TPM enabled will require special approval from Microsoft".
the header is not the actual tpm module though right?

4. I found this £105 asus B560m prime-A it lacks wifi and has only 10Gbps type-c but same vrm as TUF. is it worth saving £35 and going asus?

Why aren't you looking at this [link] motherboard?

A TPM is required for Windows 11 (at this point), TPM modules are not packaged with retail motherboards, it's a separate purchase. Get one (provisional advice depending on CPU PTT) if you intend to use Win-11.

WiFi 6-E is simply additional channels in the 6 GHz band - and the price of new routers. If you have a LAN that needs that speed, it's an upgrade. For internet use the slowest speed in the system is the fastest your traffic can go. An ISP connection at 300mbit is going to max out somewhere around 300mbit, the router is the next 'slow' transit in that stream.

The WiFi 6-E routers are looking to be the most expensive ever, I will not buy any of these, I have a recent version mesh router.

Linksys Atlas Max 6E Mesh System >$1,000
Linksys Hydra Pro 6E $500
Asus ROG Rapture GT-AXE11000 >$500
Netgear Nighthawk RAXE500 $600

 

[ecologist]

Why aren't you looking at this [link] motherboard?

thats a z490 out of stock board.

4. Unless my eyes deceive me, that is most DEFINITELY NOT the TUF's VRM. Those are discrete MOSFETs up top unheatsinked, knowing Asus it's probably SiRA12/14 garbage. The TUF may get hot with an 8-core, but will still handle a 6-core with ease. The Prime board is hot garbage, stay away. Looks like false advertising to me as well, 8 phases of doubled low-side discretes are not "8 power stages" like Asus claims.

ok thanks will stay away.

Firmware-based TPM works just fine, all Intel chipsets from like the past 3 years have Platform Trust Technology (PTT) built into the PCH, which essentially emulates a TPM's features. That's enough for Windows 11, you just have to enable PTT in BIOS.

intel's ark page says Intel® Trusted Execution Technology is not supported on the i5-11400, does this mean PTT is missing?


any recommendations out of the ram kits, all 3200Mhz CL16 and same price:
HyperX FURY 3200Mhz CL16
corsair vengeance LPX
crucial ballistix
gskill aegis
patriot viper 4 blackout
I can't find 3200 CL14 for similar prices.

 

[tabascosauz]

thats a z490 out of stock board.

ok thanks will stay away.

intel's ark page says Intel® Trusted Execution Technology is not supported on the i5-11400, does this mean PTT is missing?


any recommendations out of the ram kits, all 3200Mhz CL16 and same price:
HyperX FURY 3200Mhz CL16
corsair vengeance LPX
crucial ballistix
gskill aegis
patriot viper 4 blackout
I can't find 3200 CL14 for similar prices.

PTT's not on the CPU........this isn't Ryzen. On Intel, the feature is integrated into the Z590/whatever chipset PCH on the board. Regardless, it's a simple trip to the BIOS to turn it on or off.

Intel page for B560:


Both of you are barking up the wrong tree. Trusted Execution Technology has nothing to do with the TPM 2.0 requirement - you will only find TXT on Intel vPro processors/platforms because it's marketed as a 'Pro' technology. PTT is what you need, and B560 integrates it.

 

[Nash]

intel's ark page says Intel® Trusted Execution Technology is not supported on the i5-11400, does this mean PTT is missing?

You would think so. Here's an article saying the same thing.
Since you don't see the Asus board, try MSI MAG (same one you referenced I believe).

PTT's not on the CPU........this isn't Ryzen. On Intel, the feature is integrated into the Z590/whatever chipset PCH on the board. Regardless, it's a simple trip to the BIOS to turn it on or off.

Asus website shows the TPM (edit spelling) headers, regardless I personally would not suggest for a picky shopper to purchase a feature that is not explicitly noted.

barking up the wrong tree. Trusted Execution Technology has nothing to do with the TPM 2.0 requirement

That's not what Intel says.

 

[tabascosauz]

That's not what Intel says.

Actually, it's precisely what Intel says. Maybe don't get your info from Wikipedia?


Win 11 is using the TPM for credential storage, it's not really anything new.

Where it starts getting a bit murky is Bitlocker, where it's simultaneously stated that vPro (ie. TXT) is required, and also stated that PTT supports Bitlocker. But in any case fTPM support for Bitlocker is already a bit spotty in Win 10, easiest way to use Bitlocker is with a discrete TPM.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with supporting Win 11, all its looking for is the presence of a TPM 2.0 part, which Intel PTT or AMD PSP precisely provides. Enable PTT in the BIOS and that status checker (or the installer itself) will let you in. I'm running the current Win 11 dev build on my HTPC, no discrete TPM needed.

 

[Nash]

Actually, it's precisely what Intel says. Maybe don't get your info from Wikipedia?

View attachment 205871
Win 11 is using the TPM for credential storage, it's not really anything new.

Where it starts getting a bit murky is Bitlocker, where it's simultaneously stated that vPro (ie. TXT) is required, and also stated that PTT supports Bitlocker. But in any case fTPM support for Bitlocker is already a bit spotty in Win 10, easiest way to use Bitlocker is with a discrete TPM.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with supporting Win 11. Enable PTT in the BIOS and that status checker (or the installer itself) will let you in. I'm running the current Win 11 dev build on my HTPC, no discrete TPM needed.

Wait!!!

Are you actually suggesting that a fuzzy screen shot (what happened to your high-DPI??) on a forum has more veracity than the vaunted wikipedia?

Lol, confirmed screenshot is accurate. Could have done without all that bitlocking though.

 

[ecologist]

Win 11 is using the TPM for credential storage, it's not really anything new.

Regardless, this has nothing to do with supporting Win 11, all its looking for is the presence of a TPM 2.0 part, which Intel PTT or AMD PSP precisely provides. Enable PTT in the BIOS and that status checker (or the installer itself) will let you in. I'm running the current Win 11 dev build on my HTPC, no discrete TPM needed.

ok that clears it up. so it should work.

ram recommendation

any recommendations out of the ram kits, all 3200Mhz CL16 and same price:
HyperX FURY 3200Mhz CL16
corsair vengeance LPX
crucial ballistix
gskill aegis
patriot viper 4 blackout
I can't find 3200 CL14 for similar prices.

 

[Nash]

Gskill Ripjaws 3200Mhz.

 

[Solid State Soul ( SSS )]

ok that clears it up. so it should work.

ram recommendation

Crucial Ballisticx or Corsair vengeance, don't bother with 3200mhz cl14, they are very expensive

Please don't buy Asus b560 boards, the gigabyte and MSI have better vrm, and trusted platform is supported on all New Intel chips