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iFixit Documents Early Teardown of Framework's Modular Mini Desktop PC

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Shahram Mokhtari and Elizabeth Chamberlain—members of the iFixit Teardown Team—spent hands-on time with Framework's freshly introduced 4.5 liter Mini-ITX "Desktop" PC system. Official press material revealed cooling solution partnerships with Cooler Master and Noctua, but only a minority of "2nd Gen event" attendees were allowed to handle these pre-release modular parts. iFixit employees did not perform a full evaluation of Framework's new desktop model, since they were dealing with a prototype unit. A "repairability score" will be awarded once finalized hardware is delivered to iFixit's base of operations. In the meantime, their video team was hosted at Framework's Northern California office.

According to a follow-up report, Mokhtari and Chamberlain enjoyed their visit: "it's teardown time. Framework has been a beacon of repairability in the laptop space, and now they're bringing that ethos to desktops...Taking this thing apart was exactly as easy as we've come to expect from Framework. They brought us to their HQ to rip into it, and from the very first step, it was clear: this desktop was designed to be opened." Potential buyers—of Framework Desktop—are faced with many configurations, but a crucial choice will focus on available APU options. The highest-end builds will feature AMD's 16-core Ryzen AI Max+ 395 "Strix Halo" processor—iFixit's teardown did not reveal any major revelations in terms of the APU's physical appearance. Even Framework's own press release contains an exposed shot—hardcore processor design enthusiasts are better catered to with a more in-depth analysis of "Strix Halo."




The compact PC community has welcomed Framework's forthcoming entry, but many have questioned the company's selection of soldered-on RAM. iFixit weighed in on this topic of debate, after absorbing official company statements: "we know what you're thinking. 'Framework? Soldered RAM? What's going on?' And yeah, we asked the same thing...In short: detachable RAM would have tanked performance—potentially cutting bandwidth in half. Framework prides itself on repairability, but they weren't willing to compromise speed to get it. We respect that level of transparency."


iFixit's video description stated: "we traveled to San Francisco to get an exclusive first look at Framework's exciting new products unveiled at their Framework 2nd Gen event! While they had plenty of big announcements, we were among the first to go hands-on with the all-new Framework Desktop. As Framework's first entry into the desktop category, this device promises to deliver the same innovation and modularity that made their laptops a game-changer. Join us as we dive into what makes the Framework Desktop so exciting!" The iFixit Teardown team anticipates a "very high" repairability score, post-testing of retail Framework Desktop models. The "Engineering Sample" showed a lot of promise during preview sessions.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site | Source
 
Still can't get over the soldered RAM, over LPCAMM2 on the backside or any other solution, despite the seeking for as much board real estate possible.
But if Framework always ships it with 128GB, which is the support limit, then I guess there are some cost savings there.
 
This thing would make an amazing steam machine with Bazzite
 
Still can't get over the soldered RAM, over LPCAMM2 on the backside or any other solution, despite the seeking for as much board real estate possible.
But if Framework always ships it with 128GB, which is the support limit, then I guess there are some cost savings there.
I think others have said LPCAMM2 is not possible due to the 256-bit (4 channel interface). Can you explain for people like me how LPCAMM2 can be connected to the 256-bit (4 channel) internal controller of the SoC given how LPCAMM2 works?
 
Still can't get over the soldered RAM, over LPCAMM2 on the backside or any other solution, despite the seeking for as much board real estate possible.
But if Framework always ships it with 128GB, which is the support limit, then I guess there are some cost savings there.

I agree but AMD is allegedly having issues with LPCAMM2.
 
I agree but AMD is allegedly having issues with LPCAMM2.
From talks at stall with Framework representative he said that they test LPCAMM2 and solder, solder win due massive performance difference. Mainly due LPCAMM2 issues with signal integrity at higher speeds.
 
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Can you explain for people like me how LPCAMM2 can be connected to the 256-bit (4 channel) internal controller of the SoC given how LPCAMM2 works?
Yea, me too :D

Now, I've been building/tearing apart/repairing pc's for almost 20 years, so I'm pretty familiar with all the parts & pieces and the tech behind them, but I've apparently missed something about the LPCAMM2 & the intricacies of it's bus connections etc, and I just don't get how having non-soldered ram would "tank performance"....

And Frameworks forcing buyers into a non-up gradable machine seems like extremely poor choice for their 1st entry into the desktop market, given their ethos of "make everything replaceable", unless of course they've been bitten by the greed-monger bug (like a certain GPU maker) and just want everyone to have to buy the top-end models or suffer the consequences...:(
 
Yea, me too :D

Now, I've been building/tearing apart/repairing pc's for almost 20 years, so I'm pretty familiar with all the parts & pieces and the tech behind them, but I've apparently missed something about the LPCAMM2 & the intricacies of it's bus connections etc, and I just don't get how having non-soldered ram would "tank performance"....
Because LPCAMM2 is having issues with signal integrity at higher speeds. So it has to run slower.
And Frameworks forcing buyers into a non-up gradable machine seems like extremely poor choice for their 1st entry into the desktop market, given their ethos of "make everything replaceable", unless of course they've been bitten by the greed-monger bug (like a certain GPU maker) and just want everyone to have to buy the top-end models or suffer the consequences...:(
Framework isnt the legion of doom. This box is aimed at a pretty specific market. You dont have to buy it.
 
I'm looking forward to seeing how many SFF cases out there can accommodate the M-ITX MB version.
 
I think others have said LPCAMM2 is not possible due to the 256-bit (4 channel interface). Can you explain for people like me how LPCAMM2 can be connected to the 256-bit (4 channel) internal controller of the SoC given how LPCAMM2 works?
A single LPCAMM connector is 128 bits wide, so you'd need two modules. They aren't as small as their promoters want us to believe, they are significantly larger than just bare chips, so the layout and trace lengths would be much less optimised than they are now.
 
It's sad but looks like there won't be any LPCAMM with Strix Halo. Hopefully they start using it at least with Strix/Kraken Point and Strix Halo has a sucessor that supports the standard.
 
From talks at stall with Framework representative he said that they test LPCAMM2 and solder, solder win due massive performance difference. Mainly due LPCAMM2 issues with signal integrity and higher speeds.
I believe that. LPDDR will only ever achieve highest speeds if it comes in the shape of soldered chips, arranged very closely around the processor. Just like GDDR and HBM.

And what is available right now at all? I can only find Lenovo 7500 MT/s modules. Also Crucial 7500 MT/s modules, which come with their own QVLs - which makes me think that general compatibility still can't be taken for granted. But Strix Halo deserves better than 7500.
 
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Jesus christ, look at the amount of thermal paste... the entire tube!
 
Would have been nice if it was surrounded with hbm which wasn't as retardedly expensive
 
Jesus christ, look at the amount of thermal paste... the entire tube!
They are using those Honeywell phase change pads not thermal paste.

Because LPCAMM2 is having issues with signal integrity at higher speeds. So it has to run slower.

Framework isnt the legion of doom. This box is aimed at a pretty specific market. You dont have to buy it.
I can see the base model being useful for network connected video encoder/server.
 
I think others have said LPCAMM2 is not possible due to the 256-bit (4 channel interface). Can you explain for people like me how LPCAMM2 can be connected to the 256-bit (4 channel) internal controller of the SoC given how LPCAMM2 works?
Two modules, but yes, would make the whole board bigger, which is what I was referring to as keeping it as tight as possible. But at least, in the future, if higher capacities would become available, you could do something about it.
Also, would not surprise me that Strix Halo is mainly aimed at soldered configurations to begin with, considering it's designed for LPDDR5x, for which the highest performance comes in BGA setups (like it has for LPDDR since forever).
 
And what is available right now at all? I can only find Lenovo 7500 MT/s modules. Also Crucial 7500 MT/s modules, which come with their own QVLs - which makes me think that general compatibility still can't be taken for granted. But Strix Halo deserves better than 7500.

The highest speed soldered lppdr5x laptop I've seen does 8500MT/s (though ~7500 is much more common, framework itself is only using 8000MT/s), is it really that different from 7500MT/s on LPCAMM? (and that's currently, 8500MT/s LPCAMM is on the roadmap for either 2025 or 2026)

QVL doesn't really mean much, it's just what the vendor tested and the market is miniscule, not many options to begin with.

I can accept Strix Halo is a new class of product and maybe AMD fucked up something so we don't get modular memory this time around, my hope is that they improve that next time and stop with the borderline made up excuses (sure 8500MT > 8000 > 7500, but the performance difference won't be significant, even less when most machines aren't using the fastest option anyway)
 
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The highest speed soldered lppdr5x laptop I've seen does 8500MT/s (though ~7500 is much more common, framework itself is only using 8000MT/s), is it really that different from 7500MT/s on LPCAMM? (and that's currently, 8500MT/s LPCAMM is on the roadmap for either 2025 or 2026)

QVL doesn't really mean much, it's just what the vendor tested and the market is miniscule, not many options to begin with.

I can accept Strix Halo is a new class of product and maybe AMD fucked up something so we don't get modular memory this time around, my hope is that they improve that next time and stop with the borderline made up excuses (sure 8500MT > 8000 > 7500, but the performance difference won't be significant, even less when most machines aren't using the fastest option anyway)
Don't forget strix halo is 256 bit. They would need to find a way to fit two lpcamm modules in a mini itx motherboard, or develop 256 bit modules. Both options could potentially be done, but not at the beginning
 
They are using those Honeywell phase change pads not thermal paste.
Wow, makes me glad i opted for a TG Kryosheet on both my 4070 Ti and Intel NUC.
 
And Frameworks forcing buyers into a non-up gradable machine seems like extremely poor choice for their 1st entry into the desktop market, given their ethos of "make everything replaceable", unless of course they've been bitten by the greed-monger bug (like a certain GPU maker) and just want everyone to have to buy the top-end models or suffer the consequences...:(
More like AMD "forcing" buyers to non-upgradable RAM since it was mentioned it is currently an engineering limitation.


It is mentioned on AMD's specs page that it only accepts 256-bit LPDDR5x and no alternative RAM type.
1740729442539.png

The HX 370 can take either RAM type, but is of course a lower-powered APU:
1740729586544.png

Besides, I have not seen any SO-DIMMs that can achieve faster speeds without overclocking (must be JEDEC and low-voltage). LPCAMM2 cannot come sooner.
 
I appreciate that at least Framework recognized the soldered RAM limitation and the upgrades are priced relatively sensibly. Also there are some tangible performance benefits to this so it's not like most other manufacturers who solder solely for their financial benefit.
 
Now I wonder if we get any OC options in bios to try bump memory speeds a bit higher 10-20% ;)
Due this iGPU looks bandwidth starved at higher TDP ;)
 
Don't forget strix halo is 256 bit. They would need to find a way to fit two lpcamm modules in a mini itx motherboard, or develop 256 bit modules. Both options could potentially be done, but not at the beginning

If asrock can fit an epyc on an itx board, this shouldn't be an issue.

1740778273792.jpeg


Fingers crossed for the next generation to do better

LPCAMM2 cannot come sooner

It's already available, afaik Lenovo was the only one to use it so far but it does exist. Micron has product pages up but no buying option, understandable given there's basically no market for it yet, but it's technically here.

 
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