Is there any BluRay Dual Layer Re-Writable Media?

[kapqa]

Yes, there is, apparently.

BD-RE Rewritable 25 GB, however only "Single Layer" 2X Speed. 25 GB

however, both of my LG internal Bluray drive cannot read the BD-RE blanc media.


maybe the media is not compatible with LG Drives?
on the backside it states

"This disc conforms to Blu Ray Disc Rewritable Format Version 2.1 and allow for 1-2X Recording with drivers/recorders, which support this format.
Do not use with drive/recorder which conforms to Rewritable Format version 1"
"For the compatibility please contact drive/recorder manufacture or visit their website"


Maybe some of you have better luck and can suggest a drive that can work well with BD-RE or similar ReWritable Media.

 

[nageme]

There's also 3-layer (100GB), but slow it is.

https://www.amazon.com/Panasonic-Blu-ray-Rewritable-Triple-Single/dp/B004VC9ZMW
https://www.amazon.com/Ritek-Rewritable-Triple-Layers-Printable/dp/B07TBBT9ZQ

I don't know about compatibility.

 

[Hardcore Games]

There are also 128GB BD media but hard disks and SSD are cheaper. 128GB 10 for $129 last I saw

 

[lexluthermiester]

There's also 3-layer (100GB), but slow it is.

That is Quad layer, but yes slower. Those listing links contain incorrect info. BDR media comes in 25GB per-layer capacities only. So if those discs are 100GB, they are 4 layers.

And yes, Amazon listings are wrong sometimes. It's quite common. Sellers are sloppy.

EDIT: Asterisk, see post below.

There are also 128GB BD media but hard disks and SSD are cheaper. 128GB 10 for $129 last I saw

No they're not. Dual layer BDR 50Packs are $50. 50 x 50GB for $50. That's 2.5TB for $50 for discs that will likely out live the person that makes them. SSDs & HDDs are temp storage devices. They are not a permanent backup storage solution.

BD-RE Rewritable 25 GB, however only "Single Layer" 2X Speed. 25 GB

however, both of my LG internal Bluray drive cannot read the BD-RE blanc media.


maybe the media is not compatible with LG Drives?

That is entirely possible. Dual layer single use discs are the better value. DL-RWs, unless you have a specific need, really are not a great option.

 

[LabRat 891]

That is Quad layer, but yes slower. Those listing links contain incorrect info. BDR media comes in 25GB per-layer capacities only. So if those discs are 100GB, they are 4 layers.

And yes, Amazon listings are wrong sometimes. It's quite common. Sellers are sloppy.

While yes, sellers are sloppy. I believe that was correctly listed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20151005064933/https://www.hughsnews.ca/faqs/authoritative-blu-ray-disc-bd-faq/9-disc-capacity

BDXL formatting, appears to be more dense.

No they're not. Dual layer BDR 50Packs are $50. 50 x 50GB for $50. That's 2.5TB for $50 for discs that will likely out live the person that makes them. SSDs & HDDs are temp storage devices. They are not a permanent backup storage solution.

Blu-Ray is definitely a more-economical means for home archiving than they seem at first glance. Fair.
But, I'm not really sure how much I generally trust writable or rewritable optical media for long-term storage. Sure, there are M-Disc, etc. that are designed to resist bitrot but, I've personally seen CDs and DVDs separate and microbiologically rot. Maybe, I'm not aware of some special quality to BD-Rs and BD-RE over CD-R/RWs and DVD-R/RWs?

SSDs, I agree. I've had data bitrot inside 5years on a SATA SSD before (though admittedly, it was an 840 evo, IIRC).
HDDs at least used to be considered 'pretty good' for Home and sm.-med. businesses' cold storage and archival needs.

PATA/UATA/IDE drives are still easily connected to a modern PC, over 3 decades later.

 

[lexluthermiester]

While yes, sellers are sloppy. I believe that was correctly listed.

https://web.archive.org/web/20151005064933/https://www.hughsnews.ca/faqs/authoritative-blu-ray-disc-bd-faq/9-disc-capacity

BDXL formatting, appears to be more dense.

Sorry, it's not. There is no way to get an extra 8.4GB of data onto a single layer unless you change the laser wavelength itself. An extra 40% capacity is not possible with "special" formatting.

The break down of BDR/BDRW discs is as follows and only as follows;
1 layer BDR = 25GB
2 layer BDR = 50GB
3 layer BDR = 75GB
4 layer BDR = 100GB

That's it, there are no other schemes that can be had. The above Amazon listing, as well as that web archive link, are wrong, fully and completely. The Amazon listings are likely deliberately false, which is common on Amazon and Ebay alike.

I'm an optical media hold out, buying them frequently and am always looking for a better deal. If these high capacity discs were a real thing, I would know, I would buy them. They are not real.

EDIT: Now the BDRXL thing you mentioned is a thing, but it requires a whole new drive because it a new laser tech. Those are professional model drives and very expensive. They are not consumer grade.

Blu-ray Disc recordable - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Standard drives are not compatible.

Blu-Ray is definitely a more-economical means for home archiving than they seem at first glance. Fair.
But, I'm not really sure how much I generally trust writable or rewritable optical media for long-term storage. Sure, there are M-Disc, etc. that are designed to resist bitrot but, I've personally seen CDs and DVDs separate and microbiologically rot. Maybe, I'm not aware of some special quality to BD-Rs and BD-RE over CD-R/RWs and DVD-R/RWs?

SSDs, I agree. I've had data bitrot inside 5years on a SATA SSD before (though admittedly, it was an 840 evo, IIRC).
HDDs at least used to be considered 'pretty good' for Home and sm.-med. businesses' cold storage and archival needs.

Those are personal preference things the OP did not ask about and are offtopic. I will not discuss them here.

 

[LabRat 891]

EDIT: Now the BDRXL thing you mentioned is a thing, but it requires a whole new drive because it a new laser tech. Those are professional model drives and very expensive. They are not consumer grade.

Blu-ray Disc recordable - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Standard drives are not compatible.

Correct.
Both of the items nageme linked to, are pictured as triple-layer BDXL, titled as triple-layer BDXL, and described as triple-layer BDXL.
Neither the 2012 documentation I linked/pictured, nor modern-day Wikipedia describes a non-XL triple-layer BD ever existing.

BDXL-compatible drives are not exclusive, nor (especially) expensive 'professional-only' devices.
It's fairly easy to find LG, Pioneer, and Panasonic drives (internal 5.25, internal laptop, and external USB) supposedly compatible w/ BDXL.
They're not terribly much more expensive than other BD-burners. Most I found were well under $100, used

As long as the manufacturer states it supports Triple-Layer or Quad-Layer BD-Rs, it is supposed to support BDXL

16x Internal Blu-Ray Rewriter Super Multi Blue - WH16NS40

Discover the 16x Internal Blu-Ray Rewriter Super Multi Blue that features Serial ATA Interface and M-DISC Support. Find reviews, specs, and more for WH16NS40.

www.lg.com

BD-RE Rewritable 25 GB, however only "Single Layer" 2X Speed. 25 GB

however, both of my LG internal Bluray drive cannot read the BD-RE blanc media.


maybe the media is not compatible with LG Drives?
on the backside it states

"This disc conforms to Blu Ray Disc Rewritable Format Version 2.1 and allow for 1-2X Recording with drivers/recorders, which support this format.
Do not use with drive/recorder which conforms to Rewritable Format version 1"
"For the compatibility please contact drive/recorder manufacture or visit their website"


Maybe some of you have better luck and can suggest a drive that can work well with BD-RE or similar ReWritable Media.

What's the precise model(s) of the drive(s) that you have now?

A. There's potentially a firmware update that may resolve the disc compatibility issue.

B. you'll need to know the drive's capabilities, and if it's even supposed to be dual-layer BD-RE compatible or BDXL compatible (should you have need of 100GB or 128GB BD-Rs)

If you're looking to replace your current drive-
LG WH16NS40
LG BH16NS40
LG WH14NS40
ASUS BW-16D1HT
Pioneer BDR-212V
Pioneer BDR-212DBK
Pioneer BDR-209MBK
-are some 5.25 Internal SATA BD writers that should support dual-layer BD-R/RE and BDXL discs.

 

[kapqa]

thank you, i h ave CH12NS40 and WH16NS55 , both flashed however for use with makemkv, bringing it to a WH16NS60 firmware, maybe that is the cause of not proper recognizing, i don't know; will attempt to restore to original firmware on 1 drive (CH12NS40) because have since found out that it would no longer read bluray of any kind it seems; since it has been used very little, am not ready yet to label it §defective; but on other forum i have been warned that some of those LG(/ASUS apparently are not so reliable; but since it has been used very little , and it still can read DVD , tend to think it is just a firmware issue.

 

[R-T-B]

I use Triple Layer M-DISC 100GB discs regularly. They have been around for ages. Actually they are getting hard to source. You guys are late to the party.

thank you, i h ave CH12NS40 and WH16NS55 , both flashed however for use with makemkv, bringing it to a WH16NS60 firmware, maybe that is the cause of not proper recognizing, i don't know; will attempt to restore to original firmware on 1 drive (CH12NS40) because have since found out that it would no longer read bluray of any kind it seems; since it has been used very little, am not ready yet to label it §defective; but on other forum i have been warned that some of those LG(/ASUS apparently are not so reliable; but since it has been used very little , and it still can read DVD , tend to think it is just a firmware issue.

MakeMKV has made several LGs stop working with certain discs of the burnable type with me. It's not supposed to but it has, at least with LGs. I recomend you get a dedicated ripping drive and a seperate one for burning.

 

[Hardcore Games]

M-DISK have been scarce or a couple of years now. Now I use USB-C enclosures with hard disks for backups. Disks can last a few years at least before bitrot gets to them. SSD are much more prone to bitrot.

 

[massaker]

The break down of BDR/BDRW discs is as follows and only as follows;
1 layer BDR = 25GB
2 layer BDR = 50GB
3 layer BDR = 75GB
4 layer BDR = 100GB

That's it, there are no other schemes that can be had. The above Amazon listing, as well as that web archive link, are wrong, fully and completely. The Amazon listings are likely deliberately false, which is common on Amazon and Ebay alike.

Nope, have you even read your Wikipedia article? Here in an improved form:

• single-layer BD-R SL (Single Layer) stores 23.3 GB, 25 GB or 27 GB (25GB = common size)
• two-layer BD-R DL (Dual Layer) up to 46.6 GB, 50 GB or 54 GB (50GB = common size)
• three-layer BD-R TL (Triple Layer) up to 100 GB (BDXL)
• four-layer BD-R QL (Quad Layer) up to 128 GB (BDXL)

There are still plenty of those on eBay:

 

[kapqa]

now when i open an UHD 3d bluray in makemkv, as done lately, they seem be able to contain about 200 GB of data; don't know if this is wrong, but there seem to be around 4 files of around 50 GB, so either those Bluray can hold quite some more data as those offered on the market, or the program is making some calculations that do exceed the actual filesizes contained on the UHD blurays.

 

[nageme]

Besides the 3 and 4 layer XL discs, there was theoretically a double-sided variant (the 1980s again?).

100GB per each side, I assume with manual flipping:

https://us.blu-raydisc.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2019/09/20140818-Blu-ray-Disc-Association-Announces-New-Double-Sided-Disc-Specification-for-Big-Data-Storage.pdf

 

[R-T-B]

M-DISK have been scarce or a couple of years now.

Well scarce may be the wrong term... amazon as a seller stocks them still and they are still being manufactured by Vetbatim. But they are going up in price quite a bit.

the 1980s again

There was also doublesided DVDs they were just uncommon.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I use Triple Layer M-DISC 100GB discs regularly. They have been around for ages. Actually they are getting hard to source. You guys are late to the party.

I've never used them. Stuck with the standard types. Didn't want to buy the more expensive drives. The RW types of the OP are painfully slow to use so I've always stuck with the write-once types.

Nope, have you even read your Wikipedia article? Here in an improved form:

• single-layer BD-R SL (Single Layer) stores 23.3 GB, 25 GB or 27 GB (25GB = common size)
• two-layer BD-R DL (Dual Layer) up to 46.6 GB, 50 GB or 54 GB (50GB = common size)
• three-layer BD-R TL (Triple Layer) up to 100 GB (BDXL)
• four-layer BD-R QL (Quad Layer) up to 128 GB (BDXL)

There are still plenty of those on eBay:
View attachment 401321View attachment 401322

Again, those are the BDR-XL type discs which are professional grade, not consumer grade. The OP is talking about RW disc types that are compatible with consumer level drives. Context is key here.

You guys are late to the party.

Or we never arrived. I've never used the XL types, they're not compatible with standard drives, so..

 

[nageme]

the BDR-XL type discs which are professional grade, not consumer grade. The OP is talking about RW disc types that are compatible with consumer level drives.

I don't think XL support was considered anything special.

For example, the LG WH14NS40. Its 2012-vintage manual (still mentions Windows XP) says:

Or the Pioneer BDR-209MBK. The manual is from 2015 and says:

 

[LabRat 891]

I don't think XL support was considered anything special.

For example, the LG WH14NS40. Its 2012-vintage manual (still mentions Windows XP) says:

Or the Pioneer BDR-209MBK. The manual is from 2015 and says:

I believe there may be a mixup with ODA, or some other Production-class format?

Optical Disc Archive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-Which, is a highly-exclusive and highly-expensive Professional multi-disc cartridge-based 'fork' / related-development of Sony Blu-Ray.

Triple-Layer BDXL was added to BD's spec all the way back in mid-2010, and quad-layer was added in 2017.

To be fair, there is mention of a "Professional Device" BD product category added alongside TL BDXL's June 2010 introduction.

 

[kapqa]

now that it is established that there are such media as Bluray ReWritable , although it seems it is still bit difficult to get them to be actually "operable" ,
would like to return to original question on if and when there were such media as Dual/layer DVD ReWritable on market?

it seems there were available, but those seem to have vanished form shelves;

ok, there are DualLayer Writable, but only once, and they cost not so much; still i am wondering, if there ever were such media actually buy-able by the commoner, eg. non-insider to industry practices.

 

[Harlow]

There's a wealth of info on this Australian web site about BDXL. Media tests and drive tests too.

https://goughlui.com/2024/10/21/experimenting-with-bdxl-part-1-the-media/
https://goughlui.com/2024/10/27/experimenting-with-bdxl-part-2-burning-some-discs/
https://goughlui.com/2024/10/27/exp...quality-scanning-gone-wrong-ft-tsst-se-506cb/
https://goughlui.com/2024/10/28/experimenting-with-bdxl-part-4-scanning-bdxl-discs-feat-lg-bh16ns55/

I've got three internal Blu-ray writers (bought the last one in 2024) but I stopped archiving RAW + JPG photo files to 25GB discs in 2018.

Instead, I bought a cheap external LTO4 SAS tape drive and use 800GB tapes for backup. Less hassle than multiple single layer BD-R and I can store 600GB+ from a 4-week vacation on a single tape. These days, I'd probably buy a 1.5TB LTO5 drive. No way would I buy an LTO9 drive.

I still use BD-R, but mostly for 4K/UHD GoPro home videos, to play back in my Panasonic on the big TV. Saves space on the hard disk in the media PC's drive.

In the car I use audio CDs.

I toyed with the idea of LibreDrive but have not reflashed any of my drives for 4K MakeMKV rips.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I don't think XL support was considered anything special.

For example, the LG WH14NS40. Its 2012-vintage manual (still mentions Windows XP) says:

Or the Pioneer BDR-209MBK. The manual is from 2015 and says:

I believe there may be a mixup with ODA, or some other Production-class format?

Optical Disc Archive - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

-Which, is a highly-exclusive and highly-expensive Professional multi-disc cartridge-based 'fork' / related-development of Sony Blu-Ray.

Triple-Layer BDXL was added to BD's spec all the way back in mid-2010, and quad-layer was added in 2017.
View attachment 401415
To be fair, there is mention of a "Professional Device" BD product category added alongside TL BDXL's June 2010 introduction.

I've been reading up on the differences between standard and XL formats. It would seem we've trodden into a level of complexity with BDR specs that is a bit more subtle then most realize, myself included.

There is a definitive difference in the technology between the 25GB layer discs and 32GB layer discs. It's been a fascinating bit of reading..

 

[Hardcore Games]

I saw a dual LTO-9 with thunderbolt suggesting that might find a buyer

 

[nageme]

if and when there were such media as Dual/layer DVD ReWritable on market?

Easy to search. Unless the question is where to find good prices.

If the goal is just -RE 50GB, that exists too:

https://www.amazon.it/Verbatim-BD-RE-Double-Scratchguard-43760/dp/B00A300GZG/

https://www.amazon.it/Verbatim-Mitsubishi-Speed-Blu-ray-Re-Writable/dp/B0041WF3X2/

https://www.amazon.it/Sony-10BNE2DCPS2-10pezzo-Vergine-Blu-Ray/dp/B0055PVAY0/

https://www.amazon.com/Verbatim-Japan-VBE260NP5V1-Recording-Printable/dp/B004JKHRK8/

https://www.amazon.com/Arita-Rewritable-Double-Layers-Printable/dp/B08VV293SH/

 

[R-T-B]

Stuck with the standard types.

I would too but we have to store our records for a very long time in state work... think retention periods of hundreds of years. MDISC are the cheapest on an approved list for this.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I would too but we have to store our records for a very long time in state work... think retention periods of hundreds of years. MDISC are the cheapest on an approved list for this.

While that is fair, I was referring to the OP's need for RW discs.