New build, is this ram bad or is it my cpu/board?

[Upgrayedd]

Putting together a new PC for my nephew and it's a giant headache.

Specs:
14700K
Asus Z790 A - Gaming WiFi II
2X16GB 7800MHz G.Skill (open box, mistake?)
Samsung 990 Pro 2TB
Evga 850 Platinum
Evga 3080

I can't get XMP to load at full XMP speeds. If I set it for XMP and try to restart it, I get a couple memory training reboots but then it will hang after a couple and be stuck in post and I have to use the power button on the case to get it to restart. I've tried all 3 BIOS. I did get it to post using by XMP settings then manually running the frequency from 7800MHz to 6800MHz. Once I got into the bios with that speed and loose timings I ran the in-bios memtest and errored out with thousands of errors in about 3 minutes. It'll pass memtest fine 0 errors if I turn XMP off and the kit runs at 4800MHZ.
Can the cpu memory controller or mobo affect memtest in the BIOS? I have ASUS MCE disabled. The next thing I was going to try was to loosen the heatsink and contact frame a tiny bit maybe the pressure is too high?

 

[ir_cow]

Well I have good news and and bad news. Good news is that probably nothing is wrong with your computer.

Bad news. 7800 is never going to work on that motherboard. I know the specs says 7600 (OC}, but that is even a stretch. Safe bets 7200 and above that is questionable.

Secondly, you can see G.SKILL only validated that memory on a few motherboards to run at 7800.

F5-7800J3646H16GX2-TZ5RK - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

QVL (Qualified Vendor List) for F5-7800J3646H16GX2-TZ5RK. Find compatible motherboard or hardware for this product.

www.gskill.com

There is always a chance something else is funky going on, but at least I can tell you trying to run 7800 is the main problem here.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Well I have good news and and bad news. Good news is that probably nothing is wrong with your computer.

Bad news. 7800 is never going to work on that motherboard. I know the specs says 7600 (OC}, but that is even a stretch. Safe bets 7200 and above that is questionable.

Secondly, you can see G.SKILL only validated that memory on a few motherboards to run at 7800.

F5-7800J3646H16GX2-TZ5RK - QVL - G.SKILL International Enterprise Co., Ltd.

QVL (Qualified Vendor List) for F5-7800J3646H16GX2-TZ5RK. Find compatible motherboard or hardware for this product.

www.gskill.com

There is always a chance something else is funky going on, but at least I can tell you trying to run 7800 is the main problem here.

The specs say 8000+ on the mobo site though?
On ASUS QVL they have listed multiple 8000MHz kits and 7600MHz kits but I do not see my exact 7800MHz kit. I would think if they have 8000MHz on the QVL from GSkill then why wouldn't a slower kit from them work?

Edit: Ive tried 7600 7200 and 7000. No post but it will post at 6800MHz SOMETIMES. Trying to find the speed at which it will boot has also destroyed my windows11 install.

 

[ir_cow]

The specs say 8000+ on the mobo site though?

I thought it said 7600 (OC) at first, so that is my fault. The Asus Z790 A - Gaming WiFi II says (OC)/7800(OC)/7600(OC)/7400(OC)/7200(OC)/7000(OC)/6800(OC)/6600(OC)/6400(OC)/6200(OC)/6000(OC)/5800(OC)/5600/5400/5200/5000/4800 Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory* .

The QVL list goes to 7800 for a TeamGroup kit, but not G.SKIll. Either way. QLV lists are more of a guide than absolute. That was done with the best binned CPU you can find and custom CPU voltages. All the QVL list is good for is to tell you that indeed with the perfect combination, that memory kit and speed will work.

ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI II | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

Experience unrivaled gaming performance with ROG Strix Z790-A Gaming WIFI II. Discover overclocking prowess, DIY-friendly features, exceptional connectivity, and more!

rog.asus.com

You also have to contend with that not IMC are equal in quality and there is a lot of people saying 14700K are particularly the worst.

But let's assume it your CPU and MB can do 7800. Since it doesn't post that high, a contact frame could help here. Even pressure is key to maximum memory frequencies. Too much tension on one side and I've personally had problems getting anything above 5200 to work. That was with a waterblock though...

I would update the BIOS to the newest and as a last ditch effort, manually set the SA, VDD_TX and VDD2 voltages. Oh and make sure they are in the correct DIMM slots.

 

[dgianstefani]

Yep, very unlikely a four DIMM board will work with 7800.

QVL are generally BS for the average user in terms of peak MT, massively optimistic.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I thought it said 7600 (OC) at first, so that is my fault. The Asus Z790 A - Gaming WiFi II says (OC)/7800(OC)/7600(OC)/7400(OC)/7200(OC)/7000(OC)/6800(OC)/6600(OC)/6400(OC)/6200(OC)/6000(OC)/5800(OC)/5600/5400/5200/5000/4800 Non-ECC, Un-buffered Memory* .

The QVL list goes to 7800 for a TeamGroup kit, but not G.SKIll. Either way. QLV lists are more of a guide than absolute. That was done with the best binned CPU you can find and custom CPU voltages. All the QVL list is good for is to tell you that indeed with the perfect combination, that memory kit and speed will work.

ROG STRIX Z790-A GAMING WIFI II | Gaming motherboards｜ROG - Republic of Gamers｜ROG Global

Experience unrivaled gaming performance with ROG Strix Z790-A Gaming WIFI II. Discover overclocking prowess, DIY-friendly features, exceptional connectivity, and more!

rog.asus.com

You also have to contend with that not IMC are equal in quality and there is a lot of people saying 14700K are particularly the worst.

But let's assume it your CPU and MB can do 7800. Since it doesn't post that high, a contact frame could help here. Even pressure is key to maximum memory frequencies. Too much tension on one side and I've personally had problems getting anything above 5200 to work. That was with a waterblock though...

I would update the BIOS to the newest and as a last ditch effort, manually set the SA, VDD_TX and VDD2 voltages. Oh and make sure they are in the correct DIMM slots.

You have to change the cpu in a drop down menu on the Asus site to the 14th gen to see the 8000 Gskill kits, it defaults to 12th gen. I did notice they were all the new 2x24GB kits though. My kit has a OCT 23 sticker on it if that's anything.
It does say 8000+ right in the tech specs but I think you're just overlooking it a bit, they list it right above all the other speeds. I didn't see it at first either honestly.
But you would still think at 7800 timings and 7000 actual speed that it should at least post to bios or tell me it's unstable and revert to non xmp but it just hangs forever after a few reboots instead. What about all the errors in memtest with 7800xmp timings and 6800 actual speed? Is that on the board?

I'll try using the newest bios and loosening and redoing the mounting process again. If that doesn't boot into xmp then what? Return the kit for a 6800MHz kit cause that's what it will boot at?

Yep, very unlikely a four DIMM board will work with 7800.

QVL are generally BS for the average user in terms of peak MT, massively optimistic.

2 dimm boards are sooo expensive now. I got a z590 oc formula for under $200 but there's nothing at a decent price for z790. Was pretty disappointed when looking around for one.

 

[nomdeplume]

You also have to contend with that not IMC are equal in quality and there is a lot of people saying 14700K are particularly the worst.

But let's assume it your CPU and MB can do 7800. Since it doesn't post that high, a contact frame could help here. Even pressure is key to maximum memory frequencies. Too much tension on one side and I've personally had problems getting anything above 5200 to work. That was with a waterblock though...

I would update the BIOS to the newest and as a last ditch effort, manually set the SA, VDD_TX and VDD2 voltages. Oh and make sure they are in the correct DIMM slots.

Yikes, is that really where we are at today.

That defaults on even reasonable sound behaviors to a fairly high amount. All or nothing to get half of something.
Feeling sick I get how this is finally getting fun again.

2X16GB 7800MHz G.Skill (open box, mistake?)

Most likely.

Be interesting to see where you land on this and if the magical upper limit boost with Intel holds true here.

 

[dgianstefani]

You have to change the cpu in a drop down menu on the Asus site to the 14th gen to see the 8000 Gskill kits, it defaults to 12th gen. I did notice they were all the new 2x24GB kits though. My kit has a OCT 23 sticker on it if that's anything.
It does say 8000+ right in the tech specs but I think you're just overlooking it a bit, they list it right above all the other speeds. I didn't see it at first either honestly.
But you would still think at 7800 timings and 7000 actual speed that it should at least post to bios or tell me it's unstable and revert to non xmp but it just hangs forever after a few reboots instead. What about all the errors in memtest with 7800xmp timings and 6800 actual speed? Is that on the board?

I'll try using the newest bios and loosening and redoing the mounting process again. If that doesn't boot into xmp then what? Return the kit for a 6800MHz kit cause that's what it will boot at?

2 dimm boards are sooo expensive now. I got a z590 oc formula for under $200 but there's nothing at a decent price for z790. Was pretty disappointed when looking around for one.

All you have to do is go ITX, there's very little reason to need more than one PCIE slot anyway.

 

[GerKNG]

you can probably take 1000 14900Ks and a 1000€ Z790 Godlike and this ram will probably run fully stable on maybe 50 CPUs.
everything beyond 6600-6800 is already being lucky. everything beyond 7000-7200 is a golden sample.

 

[dgianstefani]

you can probably take 1000 14900Ks and a 1000€ Z790 Godlike and this ram will probably run fully stable on maybe 50 CPUs.
everything beyond 6600-6800 is already being lucky. everything beyond 7000-7200 is a golden sample.

Godlike is crap for memory OC since it's a four DIMM board.

A $250 ITX does 8000 MT, 7800 guaranteed. All 14th gen K can do at least 7800 MT on two DIMM boards.

The only reason ATX still exists is convention and workstation builds, mATX and ITX have surpassed it for performance/value for a long time now.

TPU staff have like five 14th gen k between us and almost all can do 8000. A good bin is 8200+.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Godlike is crap for memory OC since it's a four DIMM board.

A $250 ITX does 8000 MT, 7800 guaranteed. All 14th gen K can do at least 7800 MT on two DIMM boards.

The only reason ATX still exists is convention and workstation builds, mATX and ITX have surpassed it for performance/value for a long time now.

TPU staff have like five 14th gen k between us and almost all can do 8000. A good bin is 8200+.

Yeah I wish mATX was more popular. I don't really NEED an ATX board is just what's more affordable and available with more features. I'd have bought a dual dimm board in a heartbeat if they weren't going to cost $700+ for atx

 

[GerKNG]

A $250 ITX does 8000 MT, 7800 guaranteed. All 14th gen K can do at least 7800 MT on two DIMM boards.

in what universe?
not even the probably best memory overclocking board on the planet "guarantees" 7800+.
most 14th gen max out at 7600 on the best overclocking boards in the world in just one stresstest. not even talking about long term stability (Intels IMC is absolute Hell on Earth to get 100% stable. you can run VST for 24 Hours without an error and twenty minutes of Memtest errors out. Buildzoid has a lot of Intel OC videos and getting something really stable at beyond 6800-7200 is almost impossible.

 

[dgianstefani]

in what universe?
not even the probably best memory overclocking board on the planet "guarantees" 7800+.
most 14th gen max out at 7600 on the best overclocking boards in the world in just one stresstest. not even talking about long term stability (Intels IMC is absolute Hell on Earth to get 100% stable. you can run VST for 24 Hours without an error and twenty minutes of Memtest errors out. Buildzoid has a lot of Intel OC videos and getting something really stable at beyond 6800-7200 is almost impossible.

View attachment 325029

Yeah Igor's lab don't really seem to know how to OC memory, in this article he didn't even adjust voltages.
Stock Intel voltages are rated for 5600 MT, so it's impressive they even got this far.

See all these Autos?

They specifically picked ASUS boards since their auto voltages match Intel spec.

 

[nomdeplume]

Board real estate pays off even when efficiency is high. If you have need of multiple NVMe around >80C cpu/gpu.
WC only increases heat soak potential of memory components.

Do keep up the pressure for better mATX though. 2 slot RAM and 4 NVMe mounts to capitalize on available cpu lanes would be great.

 

[Upgrayedd]

All you have to do is go ITX, there's very little reason to need more than one PCIE slot anyway.

I thought about it but I'd have to ship this board back to asus then. I bought the ram at microcenter so I could easily just return that and get a new kit in a single day. I'm trying to have it done by Christmas and I don't think shipping a new board is an option.

 

[dgianstefani]

Board real estate pays off even when efficiency is high. If you have need of multiple NVMe around >80C cpu/gpu.
WC only increases heat soak potential of memory components.

Do keep up the pressure for better mATX though. 2 slot RAM and 4 NVMe mounts to capitalize on available cpu lanes would be great.

My ITX board has two Gen 5/4 NVMe slots, one on the front, one on the back. You can also add more storage via SATA if necessary.

I believe there are also ITX boards with three NVMe slots.

 

[nomdeplume]

My ITX board has two Gen 5/4 NVMe slots, one on the front, one on the back. You can also add more storage via SATA if necessary.

I believe there are also ITX boards with three NVMe slots.

All or nothing to get half of something.

I'm withdrawing after two three marginally relevant contributions.

Best of luck @Upgrayedd

 

[dgianstefani]

I thought about it but I'd have to ship this board back to asus then. I bought the ram at microcenter so I could easily just return that and get a new kit in a single day. I'm trying to have it done by Christmas and I don't think shipping a new board is an option.

Buy direct from Amazon for one day delivery.

Or just from MC.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Buy direct from Amazon for one day delivery.

Or just from MC.

MC didn't have new edition they had the older one. Amazon I'll buy some stuff from but I try not to get the core components from there. Usually either a store like MC or best buy or straight from manufacturer.

I'm withdrawing after two three marginally relevant contributions.

Best of luck @Upgrayedd

Im going to give the new bios and remount a shot here in a few I'll update when I'm done.

 

[Chrispy_]

If you're in this forum asking for help on whether your board is bad because XMP 7800 doesn't work on a stock i7 and generic-ass board, then you need to just dial in something realistic and be done with it. Months of learning and 20-30 forum pages of helpful advice might get you closer to understanding how you can achieve 7800MHz with your kit, but it's not going to be simple and it's not going to happen without you spending more money, days or weeks of your time and those who contribute, and probably more patience than it's worth for the 2-10% performance gain you might achieve in a few specific scenarios.

If you can't just use a memory calculator to pick some sensible timings between 6000 and 6800, the, return the kit and buy a 6400 kit with tight timings so you can just enable XMP and be done with it. I'm not trying to fob you off, but testing memory controller stability with manual timings for a PC you intend to use as a daily driver isn't fun or quick (to me). Unless you do not value your time, or have a whole weekend to tinker, fail, learn, test, and pray that unstable timings are corrupting your OS and system data, just avoid the headache altogether. Either way, you're going to get familar with reinstalls, memory testing, and/or DISM and SFC utilties...

 

[Upgrayedd]

If you're in this forum asking for help on whether your board is bad because XMP 7800 doesn't work on a stock i7 and generic-ass board, then you need to just dial in something realistic and be done with it. Months of learning and 20-30 forum pages of helpful advice might get you closer to understanding how you can achieve 7800MHz with your kit, but it's not going to be simple and it's not going to happen without you spending more money, days or weeks of your time and those who contribute, and probably more patience than it's worth for the 2-10% performance gain you might achieve in a few specific scenarios.

If you can't just use a memory calculator to pick some sensible timings between 6000 and 6800, the, return the kit and buy a 6400 kit with tight timings so you can just enable XMP and be done with it. I'm not trying to fob you off, but testing memory controller stability with manual timings for a PC you intend to use as a daily driver isn't fun or quick (to me). Unless you do not value your time, or have a whole weekend to tinker, fail, learn, test, and pray that unstable timings are corrupting your OS and system data, just avoid the headache altogether. Either way, you're going to get familar with reinstalls, memory testing, and/or DISM and SFC utilties...

I know it's somewhat of a prayer. Just thought it might be a little better then 6400MHz if the board says 8000. I realize dual dimm and i9 handle high speed ram better. I got time but it's not mine in the end so if the remount won't help then I'll probably return the ram for a slower rated XMP kit that's stable at default XMP because getting a new mobo and a smaller case just isn't really an option.

After new BIOS 0507 using XMP 1 which is "ASUS optimized"
Memtest 6400 0 errors pass
Memtest 6600 1 error.
Memtest 6800 constant errors immediately
Not even going to try 7000 cause I doubt it will post.

Going to try the remount now and start at 6800. If it doesn't help I'll probably be making a trip to microcenter.

I know it's somewhat of a prayer. Just thought it might be a little better then 6400MHz if the board says 8000. I realize dual dimm and i9 handle high speed ram better. I got time but it's not mine in the end so if the remount won't help then I'll probably return the ram for a slower rated XMP kit that's stable at default XMP because getting a new mobo and a smaller case just isn't really an option.

After new BIOS 0507 using XMP 1 which is "ASUS optimized"
Memtest 6400 0 errors pass
Memtest 6600 1 error.
Memtest 6800 constant errors immediately
Not even going to try 7000 cause I doubt it will post.

Going to try the remount now and start at 6800. If it doesn't help I'll probably be making a trip to microcenter.

Welllll I've reseated and turned MCE off. Running memtest 6800 currently and didn't start erroring immediately. 1 minute in 0 errors when before they were just piling up into the thousands. Will update once first pass is done.

 

[maxfly]

I'd personally stick with what you've got if you happened to catch a sweet deal. Down clock it (like you are) tighten the timings, write down what speed, timings and voltages work flawlessly for future reference (stash in a safe place) and call it good. Now if you paid a pretty penny for those modules...full stop. Take em back and grab some cheap 6000s or 6200s on sale and be done with it. The rigs going to run like a champ using either option, the question becomes home much of a time sink are you willing to deal with.

 

[Upgrayedd]

I'd personally stick with what you've got if you happened to catch a sweet deal. Down clock it (like you are) tighten the timings, write down what speed, timings and voltages work flawlessly for future reference (stash in a safe place) and call it good. Now if you paid a pretty penny for those modules...full stop. Take em back and grab some cheap 6000s or 6200s on sale and be done with it. The rigs going to run like a champ using either option, the question becomes home much of a time sink are you willing to deal with.

They weren't any more expensive than the slower kits. I think I paid $120.

So after a reseat and using less pressure I've passed memtest 6800 and 7000 with 0 errors. I start to get errors using 7200 after about 15mins, they show up in the 32-bit inversion test or whatever it was called.
This is a good improvement. I'm going to try the XMP2 profile without the Asus enhancements at 7200. If this shows no improvement I may try to mess with the pressure again.

Edit: I was able to post at 7600 and 7800 after the 1st remount. Memtest failed horribly on those but 7200 just barley failed. I went for a 2nd remount, even less pressure and could not even post with 7600 or 7800. Still giving a few errors at 7200.
Maybe this board is only good for 7000 with my particular 14700K since a CPU reseat and cooler remount was able to pull another 600MHz from it to go from 6400 with 0 errors to 7000 and 0 errors. I'm letting it run 7200 XMP2 right now after 10 errors with XMP1 7200. I'll edit again after the test.

Edit2: still errors at 7200, about 10 errors each time at 7200. Seems like 7000 might be the max for me. I have noticed all the errors always occur at the 3rd from the last value in the error string, for example, xxxxxYxx, where Y is the wrong value. Feel like this could prob get cleaned up with a voltage tweak somewhere.

Any opinion on where to go next? I don't really want to tweak this kits timings for 7000, that's too much headache for me, way too many numbers to mess with these days.
The only 7000 kits at MC are $220. They've got a couple 6800MHz kits I could try to set to 7000? Good idea, bad idea? I could try for a 7200 XMP rated kit and hope for the best?

 

[ir_cow]

Have you played with the CPU voltages yet. Manually setting SA, TX and VDD2 will help.

I'm honestly not surprised that you are maxing out at 7000. If a cheap MB like that could do 7800-8000, I wouldn't need to spend $700 on a ASUS Apex

 

[Upgrayedd]

Have you played with the CPU voltages yet. Manually setting SA, TX and VDD2 will help.

I'm honestly not surprised that you are maxing out at 7000. If a cheap MB like that could do 7800-8000, I wouldn't need to spend $700 on a ASUS Apex

Honestly figured maybe the newest stuff could actually do it. The thing was damn near $400, wasn't exactly cheap.
What do you think about the newer 24GB modules, would they have a better chance at 7200 or better?

I haven't messed with any voltages yet. The xmp voltage is 1.45v