• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Power limits vs thermal limits

barbaroja9

New Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2022
Messages
7 (0.01/day)
Been reading a lot about throttlestop lately. However, this question remains:

Why would you limit via PL if the chip throttles because of thermals anyways?

Maybe I want to have a machine that runs cooler? Then, why not bring the core ratios lower?

Sorry if these seem like dumb questions.
 

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
58,412 (7.78/day)
Location
Oystralia
System Name Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory 2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s) Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage 2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s) Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) | Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) | Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s) Logitech G560 | Corsair Void pro RGB |Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores Nyooom.
Because then you need bigger and better VRMs, a better power brick, and better overall cooling to the entire system
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2011
Messages
3,008 (0.59/day)
I'll piggy-back on the above statement, and add a bit more.

For a moment, imagine this as an efficiency issue. You put in 100 watts, 60 is converted into heat, 40 is converted into potential differences, and you complete a task in 10 seconds. The same processor may be able to take 50 watts in, convert it into 28 watts of heat, and complete the task in 19 seconds. It doesn't sound like a lot, but you have half the energy input, less heat, and less than half the time to complete the operation. Likewise, you could pump 200 watts in, get 130 watts of heat, and take 6 seconds to complete the operation.

All of this is to say that energy input, computational output, and thermal conversion are not uniformly linear in a processor. Simply waiting until the thermal limit is reached, and allowing the processor to throttle, isn't likely to be the most efficient use of energy...ever.



This is why you see people undervolting chips to get them to run cooler with minimal performance losses. It's also why I look at the 7000 series from AMD and really ask whether using thermal throttle limits to get performance is a long term viable solution. I'm sitting on a 3930k which used to hit about 3.8 GHz, under water cooling. A decade on and it's down to about 3.4 under the same cooler. That's not a huge drop...but I also never ran the thing stupid overclocked.
My current driver 3700x is slightly undervolted, and the frequency is slightly upped. It isn't golden chip levels, but I also want to run the thing for another decade. I'm...reticent to say that the 7000 series will soldier on that long without some falloff...that may make my 3930k tame.
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2019
Messages
15,691 (6.83/day)
Location
Midlands, UK
System Name My second and third PCs are Intel + Nvidia
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D @ 45 W TDP Eco Mode
Motherboard MSi Pro B650M-A Wifi
Cooling be quiet! Shadow Rock LP
Memory 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800
Video Card(s) PowerColor Reaper Radeon RX 9070 XT
Storage 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 4 TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s) Dell S3422DWG 34" 1440 UW 144 Hz
Case Corsair Crystal 280X
Audio Device(s) Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones
Power Supply 750 W Seasonic Prime GX
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2S
Keyboard Logitech G413 SE
Software Bazzite (Fedora Linux) KDE Plasma
Disclaimer: I'm talking from a strictly desktop environment. I have no experience with modern laptops and Throttlestop. So...

You want to power limit your CPU vs letting it run hot for extra peace of mind that it will serve you well for years to come, and not incur any possible damage and/or degradation due to heat. Sure, thermal limits exist for a reason (to protect the CPU), but that doesn't mean you can't do a little more.

You want to power limit your CPU vs manually adjusting core ratios because the factory boost mechanism knows what to do much better than you can ever guess. You'll stay within your lower power envelope during lightly threaded workloads even with high clock frequencies, so there's no need to limit your performance in every case.
 
Top