Shingled drives

Shrek · Sep 25, 2021

Found this on amazon.com concerning a Seagate Barracuda shingled drive

Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Seagate BarraCuda 2TB Internal Hard Drive HDD – 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s 7200 RPM 256MB Cache 3.5-Inch – Frustration Free Packaging (ST2000DM008/ST2000DMZ08)

"It took 9 HR to copy 1.1TB to this drive! Then I put my old drive back in and the same copy setup took 2.5 Hr to copy the same 1.1TB"

Is the write speed difference really so large between a shingled and non-shingled drive?

R-T-B · Sep 25, 2021

Andy Shiekh said:
Found this on amazon.com concerning a Seagate Barracuda shingled drive

Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Seagate BarraCuda 2TB Internal Hard Drive HDD – 3.5 Inch SATA 6Gb/s 7200 RPM 256MB Cache 3.5-Inch – Frustration Free Packaging (ST2000DM008/ST2000DMZ08)

"It took 9 HR to copy 1.1TB to this drive! Then I put my old drive back in and the same copy setup took 2.5 Hr to copy the same 1.1TB"

Is the write speed difference really so large between a shingled and non-shingled drive?

In short, yes, it can be that dramatic. Shingled drives are not ideal if you do a lot of writes.

sam_86314 · Sep 25, 2021

I'm far from an expert, so take what I say with several metric craploads of salt.

From what I understand, the tracks on SMR drives overlap each other. This is what increases the density. In effect, the tracks are narrower than the read/write head.

While this doesn't affect reading a track, in order to write data, the tracks adjacent to it will have to be rewritten afterward. The more data that is written to the drive, the more the existing data has to be shuffled around.

Shrek · Sep 25, 2021

But to imagine spending 8 hours to fill just 1TB of the drive...

This doesn't quite make sense... when first writing data one should be able to run at full speed, it is just when one wants to rewrite data that one is destroying neighboring data that needs to be rebuilt.

R-T-B · Sep 25, 2021

Andy Shiekh said:
it is just when one wants to rewrite data that one is destroying neighboring data that needs to be rebuilt.

The drive doesn't know if it's empty space. Simply hdds don't communicate with the filesystem like that. It simply knows it's overwriting a 1 or a 0. It doesn't know whether it's allocated or not. So it always has to be rebuilt.

This is where SSD's have TRIM and it comes into play. That tells the drive which sectors are free to be set to a deprogrammed state. Obviously there is no such facility on a HDD, so it has to assume every sector matters.

MIRTAZAPINE · Sep 25, 2021

Yes shingled are dramatic in write speed. They are only fast and decent for short writes but once their reserve cache non-shingled cache or conventional recording sector run out they get really slow. Usually they have like 100GB or so reserve sector of non-shingled space or so.

It took more than 24 hours to write zeroed a shingled based 8TB seagate barracuda compute hdd vs a conventional 18TB WD enterprised hdd at about 16 hours.

Mussels · Sep 25, 2021

Andy Shiekh said:
But to imagine spending 8 hours to fill just 1TB of the drive...

This doesn't quite make sense... when first writing data one should be able to run at full speed, it is just when one wants to rewrite data that one is destroying neighboring data that needs to be rebuilt.

Just like MLC flash, it now has to do two writes instead of one in those areas of the drive

You throw something that HDD's are already bad at (lots of small files) and you're in snail territory

System Name	HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor	Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard	Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory	16GB DDR3
Video Card(s)	Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage	2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s)	Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply	12V HP proprietary
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64

System Name	Space Heater MKIV
Processor	AMD Ryzen 7 5800X
Motherboard	ASRock B550 Taichi
Cooling	Noctua NH-U14S, 3x Noctua NF-A14s
Memory	2x32GB Teamgroup T-Force Vulcan Z DDR4-3600 C18 1.35V
Video Card(s)	PowerColor RX 6800 XT Red Devil (2150MHz, 240W PL)
Storage	2TB WD SN850X, 4x1TB Crucial MX500 (striped array), LG WH16NS40 BD-RE
Display(s)	Dell S3422DWG (34" 3440x1440 144Hz)
Case	Phanteks Enthoo Pro M
Audio Device(s)	Edifier R1700BT, Samson SR850
Power Supply	Corsair RM850x, CyberPower CST135XLU
Mouse	Logitech MX Master 3
Keyboard	Glorious GMMK 2 96%
Software	Windows 10 LTSC 2021, Linux Mint

System Name	HP Compaq 8000 Elite CMT
Processor	Intel Core 2 Quad Q9550
Motherboard	Hewlett-Packard 3647h
Memory	16GB DDR3
Video Card(s)	Asus NVIDIA GeForce GT 1030 2GB GDDR5 (fan-less)
Storage	2TB Micron SATA SSD; 2TB Seagate Firecuda 3.5" HDD
Display(s)	Dell P2416D (2560 x 1440)
Power Supply	12V HP proprietary
Software	Windows 10 Pro 64-bit

System Name	Pioneer
Processor	Ryzen R9 7950X
Motherboard	GIGABYTE Aorus Elite X670 AX
Cooling	Noctua NH-D15 + A whole lotta Sunon and Corsair Maglev blower fans...
Memory	64GB (4x 16GB) G.Skill Flare X5 @ DDR5-6000 CL30
Video Card(s)	XFX RX 7900 XTX Speedster Merc 310
Storage	2x Crucial P5 Plus 2TB PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs
Display(s)	55" LG 55" B9 OLED 4K Display
Case	Thermaltake Core X31
Audio Device(s)	TOSLINK->Schiit Modi MB->Asgard 2 DAC Amp->AKG Pro K712 Headphones or HDMI->B9 OLED
Power Supply	FSP Hydro Ti Pro 850W
Mouse	Logitech G305 Lightspeed Wireless
Keyboard	WASD Code v3 with Cherry Green keyswitches + PBT DS keycaps
Software	Gentoo Linux x64

Shingled drives

Shrek

R-T-B

sam_86314

Shrek

Attachments

R-T-B

MIRTAZAPINE

Mussels

Freshwater Moderator

System Name	Fat NCASE
Processor	Ryzen R9 3900X
Motherboard	ASUS TUF GAMING B550M ZAKU (WIFI) Edition
Cooling	Scythe Fuma with 3 SCYTHE Wondersnail 2400RPM + Arctic MX2
Memory	Corsair Vengeance 128GB @3200Mhz Cl16 (32GB X 4)
Video Card(s)	Palit RTX 3060 StormX ITX 12GB
Storage	MX500 4TB SATA + Toshiba MG08 16TB HDD
Display(s)	LG 27UL500 4K monitor
Case	Jonsbo W2 black
Audio Device(s)	Onboard realtek 1200 & Soundblaster G3 usb
Power Supply	ASUS ROG STRIX 850W Gundam Edition
Mouse	Elecom wireless mouse :)
Keyboard	RK100 Royal Kludge
Software	Windows 10 HOME
Benchmark Scores	Don't know any benchmark. It runs good enough for me.

System Name	Rainbow Sparkles (Power efficient, <350W gaming load)
Processor	Ryzen R7 5800x3D (Undervolted, 4.45GHz all core)
Motherboard	Asus x570-F (BIOS Modded)
Cooling	Alphacool Apex UV - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora + EK Quantum ARGB 3090 w/ active backplate
Memory	2x32GB DDR4 3600 Corsair Vengeance RGB @3866 C18-22-22-22-42 TRFC704 (1.4V Hynix MJR - SoC 1.15V)
Video Card(s)	Galax RTX 3090 SG 24GB: Underclocked to 1700Mhz 0.750v (375W down to 250W))
Storage	2TB WD SN850 NVME + 1TB Sasmsung 970 Pro NVME + 1TB Intel 6000P NVME USB 3.2
Display(s)	Phillips 32 32M1N5800A (4k144), LG 32" (4K60) \| Gigabyte G32QC (2k165) \| Phillips 328m6fjrmb (2K144)
Case	Fractal Design R6
Audio Device(s)	Logitech G560 \| Corsair Void pro RGB \|Blue Yeti mic
Power Supply	Fractal Ion+ 2 860W (Platinum) (This thing is God-tier. Silent and TINY)
Mouse	Logitech G Pro wireless + Steelseries Prisma XL
Keyboard	Razer Huntsman TE ( Sexy white keycaps)
VR HMD	Oculus Rift S + Quest 2
Software	Windows 11 pro x64 (Yes, it's genuinely a good OS) OpenRGB - ditch the branded bloatware!
Benchmark Scores	Nyooom.