- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
- Messages
- 11,151 (5.42/day)
- Location
- Midlands, UK
System Name | Nebulon B |
---|---|
Processor | AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D |
Motherboard | MSi PRO B650M-A WiFi |
Cooling | be quiet! Dark Rock 4 |
Memory | 2x 24 GB Corsair Vengeance DDR5-4800 |
Video Card(s) | AMD Radeon RX 6750 XT 12 GB |
Storage | 2 TB Corsair MP600 GS, 2 TB Corsair MP600 R2, 4 + 8 TB Seagate Barracuda 3.5" |
Display(s) | Dell S3422DWG, 7" Waveshare touchscreen |
Case | Kolink Citadel Mesh black |
Audio Device(s) | Logitech Z333 2.1 speakers, AKG Y50 headphones |
Power Supply | Seasonic Prime GX-750 |
Mouse | Logitech MX Master 2S |
Keyboard | Logitech G413 SE |
Software | Windows 10 Pro |
I'm starting this thread as a build log, but if anyone wants to join with their systems, or just to seek advice, feel free.
I've been a PC gamer since 1998, and have been building my own computers since 2004. In the last 7 or 8 years, I've been specialising in small form factor builds. I find packing more punch into a small case more satisfying than slamming high-end components into a large case with plenty of airflow and calling it a day. I've experimented with various generations of Core i3s, i7s, Ryzens, and now I'm back to a Rocket Lake Core i7-based system. My experiences have been vastly different from that of reviewers' who often test new CPUs with top-end cooling and unrestricted power limits, so I thought I'd share some of it. Where to begin...
Life with my Ryzen 9 5950X and Radeon RX 5700 XT was nice until the chip shortage hit that compelled me to sell them to make some money. I have to note that I was running the system in an Aerocool Aero One Mini case with a Corsair H100i 240 mm AIO liquid cooler. Under stock settings with my Asus TUF Gaming B550M WiFi motherboard, the CPU consumed 130 Watts, and ran between 70 and 80 °C under full load. All-core turbo was around 3.6-3.8 GHz. If I enabled the "Asus Optimizer" in BIOS (a feature that disables power limits and sets single-core turbo speeds and voltages as all-core - on AMD platforms at least), the Ryzen 9 needed 180 Watts and came close to thermal throttling with clock speeds around 4.4-4.6 GHz. Naturally, I didn't use this option, as the CPU was overkill for gaming even with stock settings.
Then I sold most of the hardware, retired the case and cooler into the wardrobe, and moved the system into a lot smaller (micro-ATX slim) Aerocool CS-101 office case with a Ryzen 3 3100 with its stock cooler and a low profile GeForce GTX 1650. The concept was, and still is a relatively portable, thin and tiny gaming rig with a sleeper design, which worked out just fine with the above mentioned CPU+GPU combination. CPU maxing out at 72 °C, GPU at 75-76 isn't too bad from a case with virtually no airflow. The Ryzen 3 3100 also has the weird attribute of running at 3.8-3.9 GHz at all times independent of workload, while only needing around 50 W maximum, which I think is a great thing.
Then I got the idea of upgrading into my head. I didn't want to do anything overkill (again), so I decided to stick to the 65 Watt TDP category, and bought a Ryzen 5 3600. First I tried it with the stock cooler, but it came very close to thermal throttling under stock settings, so I quickly bought a be quiet! Shadow Rock LP, which is basically the biggest cooler I can fit into my case. This new cooler managed to keep the 3600 under 90 °C, though weirdly enough, it remained cold to the touch. First I thought contact between the CPU and the cooler was wrong, so I reseated the cooler a couple times, but saw no improvement. I use Arctic MX-4 thermal paste, by the way. Luckily, a friend of mine needed an upgrade for his (bigger than mine) PC, and bought the 3600 off of me.
Then I thought, maybe modern Ryzen's increased heat density, offset CPU die and 88 W power target was the reason I couldn't cool the 3600, so I took a bold move and ordered a motherboard with a Core i7-11700. No "K" suffix here; I've never regarded overclocking in much value. Besides, when you're building SFF, lower TDP (and heat output) is always the way to go. I never even took the stock cooler out of the box, as I remember having trouble with it cooling the Core i7-7700 (again, no "K" designation) I had before the 5950X. At first try, the CPU shot up to 95 °C with 180 Watts of power consumption during the 225 W stock PL2 (secondary power limit), but nested in the lower 60s once Tau (PL2 duration) expired. That gave me the idea of playing with the power limits. Here are some results, including the original findings:
The future: As the little i7 nicely settled into the small office case, it's time to use it for the intended purpose: gaming. Of course performance won't be affected with the GTX 1650, but I'm planning to run some tests for thermals and clock speeds under various PL settings. As for the further future, I might be looking at AMD's Ryzen 5000G APU line to see if the larger central die they use have any better heat dissipation characteristics than their CPUs. Or I might just sell my Ryzen 3 CPU + motherboard combo and call it a day. I might also move the new system into the Aero One Mini case and increase its power limits even further during a graphics card upgrade (when that happens is a big question mark at the moment). We'll see.![Smile :) :)](https://tpucdn.com/forums/data/assets/smilies/smile-v1.gif)
As a bonus, here's a picture of the finished build (details in my profile) with a CPU box for size comparison:
I've been a PC gamer since 1998, and have been building my own computers since 2004. In the last 7 or 8 years, I've been specialising in small form factor builds. I find packing more punch into a small case more satisfying than slamming high-end components into a large case with plenty of airflow and calling it a day. I've experimented with various generations of Core i3s, i7s, Ryzens, and now I'm back to a Rocket Lake Core i7-based system. My experiences have been vastly different from that of reviewers' who often test new CPUs with top-end cooling and unrestricted power limits, so I thought I'd share some of it. Where to begin...
Life with my Ryzen 9 5950X and Radeon RX 5700 XT was nice until the chip shortage hit that compelled me to sell them to make some money. I have to note that I was running the system in an Aerocool Aero One Mini case with a Corsair H100i 240 mm AIO liquid cooler. Under stock settings with my Asus TUF Gaming B550M WiFi motherboard, the CPU consumed 130 Watts, and ran between 70 and 80 °C under full load. All-core turbo was around 3.6-3.8 GHz. If I enabled the "Asus Optimizer" in BIOS (a feature that disables power limits and sets single-core turbo speeds and voltages as all-core - on AMD platforms at least), the Ryzen 9 needed 180 Watts and came close to thermal throttling with clock speeds around 4.4-4.6 GHz. Naturally, I didn't use this option, as the CPU was overkill for gaming even with stock settings.
Then I sold most of the hardware, retired the case and cooler into the wardrobe, and moved the system into a lot smaller (micro-ATX slim) Aerocool CS-101 office case with a Ryzen 3 3100 with its stock cooler and a low profile GeForce GTX 1650. The concept was, and still is a relatively portable, thin and tiny gaming rig with a sleeper design, which worked out just fine with the above mentioned CPU+GPU combination. CPU maxing out at 72 °C, GPU at 75-76 isn't too bad from a case with virtually no airflow. The Ryzen 3 3100 also has the weird attribute of running at 3.8-3.9 GHz at all times independent of workload, while only needing around 50 W maximum, which I think is a great thing.
Then I got the idea of upgrading into my head. I didn't want to do anything overkill (again), so I decided to stick to the 65 Watt TDP category, and bought a Ryzen 5 3600. First I tried it with the stock cooler, but it came very close to thermal throttling under stock settings, so I quickly bought a be quiet! Shadow Rock LP, which is basically the biggest cooler I can fit into my case. This new cooler managed to keep the 3600 under 90 °C, though weirdly enough, it remained cold to the touch. First I thought contact between the CPU and the cooler was wrong, so I reseated the cooler a couple times, but saw no improvement. I use Arctic MX-4 thermal paste, by the way. Luckily, a friend of mine needed an upgrade for his (bigger than mine) PC, and bought the 3600 off of me.
Then I thought, maybe modern Ryzen's increased heat density, offset CPU die and 88 W power target was the reason I couldn't cool the 3600, so I took a bold move and ordered a motherboard with a Core i7-11700. No "K" suffix here; I've never regarded overclocking in much value. Besides, when you're building SFF, lower TDP (and heat output) is always the way to go. I never even took the stock cooler out of the box, as I remember having trouble with it cooling the Core i7-7700 (again, no "K" designation) I had before the 5950X. At first try, the CPU shot up to 95 °C with 180 Watts of power consumption during the 225 W stock PL2 (secondary power limit), but nested in the lower 60s once Tau (PL2 duration) expired. That gave me the idea of playing with the power limits. Here are some results, including the original findings:
- 65 W PL1: 2.8 GHz all-core boost, low-60s temp (silent fan profile), Cinebench R23 around 9000 points.
- 80 W PL1: 3-3.1 GHz all-core, 65-68 °C (silent fan profile), Cinebench R23 around 9500-9600 points.
- 100 W PL1: 3.3-3.4 GHz all-core, 67-68 °C (turbo fan profile), Cinebench R23 scores 10444 points. The Ryzen 5 3600 nearly throttled even at 88 W PPT with the same cooler.
- Single-core performance is unaffected by the modified power limits, as the CPU needs around 50 Watts to maintain its 4.8-4.9 GHz turbo in single-threaded workloads.
- The temperatures mentioned above were recorded with the memory controller set to Gear 2. Oddly enough, the Auto BIOS setting resulted in about 10 °C higher package temp (and no performance gain) for some reason.
- As I mentioned before, the be quiet! cooler ran cold, but let the Ryzen 5 nearly overheat under stock settings, but runs fairly warm while keeping the i7 cool, indicating that heat transfer is much better with the Intel CPU.
The future: As the little i7 nicely settled into the small office case, it's time to use it for the intended purpose: gaming. Of course performance won't be affected with the GTX 1650, but I'm planning to run some tests for thermals and clock speeds under various PL settings. As for the further future, I might be looking at AMD's Ryzen 5000G APU line to see if the larger central die they use have any better heat dissipation characteristics than their CPUs. Or I might just sell my Ryzen 3 CPU + motherboard combo and call it a day. I might also move the new system into the Aero One Mini case and increase its power limits even further during a graphics card upgrade (when that happens is a big question mark at the moment). We'll see.
![Smile :) :)](https://tpucdn.com/forums/data/assets/smilies/smile-v1.gif)
As a bonus, here's a picture of the finished build (details in my profile) with a CPU box for size comparison:
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