Some upgrades, maybe, GPU+PSU

[Frick]

Hey hey. Because reasons* I'm thinking about getting a GPU, and maybe a PSU if needed. Deciding between a ASUS RTX 4070 Dual and the handily named XFX Speedster MERC 319 RX 6950 XT + PSU. Shockingly, the 6950XT + PSU will not be much more expensive than the 4070. Playing on 4K/60Hz. Coming from a RTX 3060ti, so raytracing hasn't really been a thing. Generally the only use will be gaming, so the Cuda and RT stuff probably won't come in handy for me ... but I can't tell the future. How big a deal is Frame Generation and stuff like that?

Some arguments for the cards:

• RTX 4070
  • Can keep current PSU, especially if I undervolt.
  • More cool stuff, Cuda/RT, DLSS, etc
  • MUCH lower power draw, which is a great thing for when the power costs much, which it will
• RX 6950xt
  • Faster in what I consider "normal mode"
  • More VRAM
  • I get Starfield with it, which I hate to admit is nice

I buy from a specific store, so it's between the 4070 and 6950xt + PSU. The 4070ti is out of my league.

Now, about power supplies. What are some good 850W+ models that don't break the bank? I am completely out of the loop. Cooler Master MWE Gold 850 V2? ASUS TUF Gaming 850W? Corsair RM850x 850W? Is even 850W enough for the 6950XT? Googling says it is, especially with some undervolting (which I'll do). I would like it to be a silent as possible.

Any feedback is appreciated. I quite genuinely don't know which way to go. I sort of lean to the 4070, because it's pretty close to the 6950xt but it'll be cheaper in the long run what with the power consumption.

*

"But Frick" I hear you say, "haven't you always said the 3060ti is fine and that you're above modern games?" Yes, I have and generally I am (this is sarcasm). However there are games coming I'm interested in, but the big reason is that a relative is looking to get a gaming computer and so the plan is to sell him the 3060ti, and if I get the 6950xt the PSU as well. For cheap of course, they've been struggling a bit. Practically it's a really bad idea, and honestly I might decide against it, but we'll see.

Another reason is that I'd like something more powerful for longevity; I fully expect this to be the last GPU I ever buy. "Why not spend more then?" Because it's not that important. I might go for the 4070ti, but the 12GB VRAM is a bit unpalatable for the money.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

The 4070/6950XT is fine but maybe wait for the 7800XT maybe it will be priced well $500 or less....


I'd probably be going with the 4070 but I value DLSS more than I value 4GB extra Vram and the extra raster performance. I also can't stand FSR.

I would go with the Corsair RMX out of the psu you have listed and should be more than fine with a 6950XT that has better transients than the 6900XT.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I prefer EVGA and Seasonic PSUs but that may depend on your preferred vendor. I also believe Gold certified is the way to go. The typical extra costs for Platinum and Titanium take years to make up for in terms of savings in electricity costs. So they are not worth it unless you stumble across a great sale and discount price.

HOWEVER, if PSU fan noise is a priority, the more efficient power supplies should generate less heat for the same load and therefore "in theory" should not require as much cooling. And that should (again, in theory) result in less fan noise. A bigger than you need PSU can offer the same lower noise advantages too.

Is even 850W enough

Don't guess. It is too hard and leaves lots of room for error. The right way to determine PSU requirements is to do some serious research for each individual component to see how much power they need, add them up, and that is the minimum you need. So add a little padding (~100W is a good number) for aging and possible future upgrade. But that is WAY TOO hard and time consuming.

So use a good PSU calculator. I use and recommend is the eXtreme OuterVision PSU Calculator. This will calculate your minimum needs and recommend a suitable size for those needs.

Plug in all your current components you are considering. Be sure to plan ahead and include all the hardware you think you might add in 2 or 3 years (extra drives, bigger or second video card, more RAM, etc.).

I recommend setting CPU utilization to 100% and Computer Utilization Time to 16 hours per day. These settings will help compensate for component aging, and add a little extra padding to the results. This little extra will also result in a little cooler and thus quieter operation.

Note that no calculator wants to recommend a PSU that is underpowered so they all pad the results, some more than others. The eXtreme OuterVision calculator is and can be the most conservative (that's a good thing) for 2 main reasons. (1) They have a team of researchers on staff constantly researching components for us to keep their extensive databases accurate and current. And (2), it is the most flexible and has the most extensive databases of available options you can enter. This allows it to factor in all possible components to more accurately calculate our needs rather than guessing or assuming. Note that guessing and assuming is exactly what most graphics card recommendations do. They never, for example, ask what CPU you have, or how many drives.

The eXtreme PSU Calculator ensures you buy a properly sized PSU for your needs. One that has a little extra headroom for future upgrades, but not one that is WAY too big and a waste of your money.

Another nice feature is the eXtreme PSU Calculator will suggest a suitable size UPS.

 

[Frick]

Don't guess.

Which is why I asked. That calculator recommends a 662W PSU, which means it probably doesn't take the spikes into account. The 6950xt is better at them than the 6900xt, but they are still there. The usual recommendation says 850W. oxrufiioxo confirmed that transients are better than the 6900xt, which I sort of knew but it's nice to have a confirmation.

 

[pavle]

As @oxrufiioxo said, I'd also suggest you wait a bit for Radeon RX 7800 XT 16GB - you can easily keep your existing PSU then, I believe (it should have some 228W TDP).

 

[Bill_Bright]

Which is why I asked.

I understand why you asked. It was not a criticism. Asking is a good thing.

That calculator recommends a 662W PSU, which means it probably doesn't take the spikes into account.

It does not mean that at all! Truth be told, most people (who guess) assume they need more power than they actually do and so are often surprised by the recommendations (or readings from their UPS or Kill-0-Watt meters) and consequently they buy way more than they need. That said, do note I said, and it says that is the minimum you need.

As I also said, that is, by far, the best calculator because it is conservative and does NOT recommend way more than we need - yet does recommend what we do need and still adds a little extra. This is to ensure it does not suggest something that is underrated. Their in-house team of expert researchers understand power needs - including spikes. There is no need to second guess them. Using the eXtreme Outvision PSC calculator is to avoid guessing, and second guessing.

I have personally been dealing with them since 2008 and 100s of builds for clients, friends, family and myself and have never had an underpowered PSU recommended. That's why I use and recommend them - so much easier than researching every component. There is no better calculator. In fact, if you look at many of calculators out there, they are licensed "lite" versions of this one.

As I also said, you can add an extra ~100w for good measure. Or more if you still have doubts. Buying too big hurts nothing but your budget.

Also, remember calculators assume every component (motherboard, RAM, CPU, GPU, drives, fans, etc.) are demanding maximum power at the exact same point in time. That rarely, if ever happens in real life - and that is especially true of the two main power hogs, the CPU and GPU.

You can trust that calculator. I can't and won't speak for the others.

 

[Deleted member 229121]

I like to know the OEM so I usually just buy Seasonic, but that's me.
An 850w Gold unit will do just fine, it's more than you'd need should you go 4070, but who knows what the next card will bring?

Plus (at least in the US anyway) things in the 650-850W range all tend to be fairly close in price.
Just checked mine quick, there's a $20 difference between the 650w and 850w version if you shop around w different vendors.

As for the GPU side of things. that's really up to you.

I like having more raster performance personally, but my older display is g-sync only, so the decision was made for me.
Hanging tight for a bit to at least see what the 7800 XT is like would be a good move.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I like to know the OEM so I usually just buy Seasonic, but that's me.

You certainly are not alone there. It is not a bad thing that many, if not most PSU brands are actually rebranded supplies from OEM suppliers. There certainly is nothing to suggest a rebranded supply is inferior, just as there is nothing to suggest a PSU brand that makes all their own supplies (like Seasonic) makes superior supplies across their entire offerings. But it is nice to know (at least for curious enthusiasts) who makes what - especially when some brands use different OEM suppliers for different models in their brand lines.

Corsair is a perfect example of this. This is a problem. It used to be if the Corsair brand was stamped on the supply, you knew it was top quality from a reputable OEM supplier. But things changed a few year ago when new management came in looking for increased profit margins (can you say "corporate greed"?). So it may not be true today. Same with Antec.

Fortunately, this is not that difficult to determine since there are couple of organizations that figure all this out for us. The one from Tom's seems to be the best. See Who's Who In Power Supplies: Brands, Labels, And OEMs | Tom's Hardware (tomshardware.com)

 

[Toothless]

Which is why I asked. That calculator recommends a 662W PSU, which means it probably doesn't take the spikes into account. The 6950xt is better at them than the 6900xt, but they are still there. The usual recommendation says 850W. oxrufiioxo confirmed that transients are better than the 6900xt, which I sort of knew but it's nice to have a confirmation.

Current system specs are up to date and I can max out the power limit with zero issues. 850w of *quality* will work.

 

[Frick]

Guys I may be crazy, I'm actually considering a 7900XT. They getting cheaper...

 

[oxrufiioxo]

Guys I may be crazy, I'm actually considering a 7900XT. They getting cheaper...

That's not crazy if going AMD current generation is by far the best bet.

 

[QuietBob]

Guys I may be crazy, I'm actually considering a 7900XT. They getting cheaper...

If you're going for 4K60, definitely consider the 7900XT. It's faster than the other two GPUs, with a wider memory bus (a crucial spec @ 4K), and more VRAM. It will be perfectly happy with a high quality 650 W PSU.
Just keep in mind that your Ryzen 2600X will be quite a bottleneck for any of these cards. And I don't mean the max fps, but rather the percentile lows.

 

[Frick]

If you're going for 4K60, definitely consider the 7900XT. It's faster than the other two GPUs, with a wider memory bus (a crucial spec @ 4K), and more VRAM. It will be perfectly happy with a high quality 650 W PSU.
Just keep in mind that your Ryzen 2600X will be quite a bottleneck for any of these cards. And I don't mean the max fps, but rather the percentile lows.

Yeah, I'll probably get a 5600 or something. If I'm upgrading I'm going for a decent 850W unit, I've read reports on cold reboots with lower wattage when doing AI stuff (topaz iirc)... Not that I'm much into that, but still.

 

[Frick]

Well look at that, a 7900XTX for the same money as a 7900XT/4070ti... Asrock Phantom Gaming specifically, which seems to be put together badly, but still...

 

[boomstik360]

Hey hey. Because reasons* I'm thinking about getting a GPU, and maybe a PSU if needed. Deciding between a ASUS RTX 4070 Dual and the handily named XFX Speedster MERC 319 RX 6950 XT + PSU. Shockingly, the 6950XT + PSU will not be much more expensive than the 4070. Playing on 4K/60Hz. Coming from a RTX 3060ti, so raytracing hasn't really been a thing. Generally the only use will be gaming, so the Cuda and RT stuff probably won't come in handy for me ... but I can't tell the future. How big a deal is Frame Generation and stuff like that?

Some arguments for the cards:

• RTX 4070
  • Can keep current PSU, especially if I undervolt.
  • More cool stuff, Cuda/RT, DLSS, etc
  • MUCH lower power draw, which is a great thing for when the power costs much, which it will
• RX 6950xt
  • Faster in what I consider "normal mode"
  • More VRAM
  • I get Starfield with it, which I hate to admit is nice

I buy from a specific store, so it's between the 4070 and 6950xt + PSU. The 4070ti is out of my league.

Now, about power supplies. What are some good 850W+ models that don't break the bank? I am completely out of the loop. Cooler Master MWE Gold 850 V2? ASUS TUF Gaming 850W? Corsair RM850x 850W? Is even 850W enough for the 6950XT? Googling says it is, especially with some undervolting (which I'll do). I would like it to be a silent as possible.

Any feedback is appreciated. I quite genuinely don't know which way to go. I sort of lean to the 4070, because it's pretty close to the 6950xt but it'll be cheaper in the long run what with the power consumption.

*

Do you have access to Open box deals where you live? I picked up a 4070 basically brand new for $150 off MSRP. That helps up your budget game.

 

[GamerGuy]

Might as well wait for the soon to be released RX 7800XT, check out the reviews and benchmarks, I think the AMD reference card would be around 500USD, definitely worth waiting for reviews. As for PSU, I'm one for a PSU that has more juice than what it 'recommended'. I'd gotten my HX1000 Platinum back in 2019 for an R9 3900X + VEGA64 build, I knew the HX1000 was 'overpowered', but then, I also knew I'd be upgrading so the PSU would have plenty of headroom. It's now handling my R9 5900X + X570 mobo + MERC310 RX 7900 XTX rig without any power-related issue.

 

[Frick]

Do you have access to Open box deals where you live? I picked up a 4070 basically brand new for $150 off MSRP. That helps up your budget game.

Yeah, but it's like instead of €650 for a 4070 it would be €620.

Might as well wait for the soon to be released RX 7800XT, check out the reviews and benchmarks, I think the AMD reference card would be around 500USD, definitely worth waiting for reviews. As for PSU, I'm one for a PSU that has more juice than what it 'recommended'. I'd gotten my HX1000 Platinum back in 2019 for an R9 3900X + VEGA64 build, I knew the HX1000 was 'overpowered', but then, I also knew I'd be upgrading so the PSU would have plenty of headroom. It's now handling my R9 5900X + X570 mobo + MERC310 RX 7900 XTX rig without any power-related issue.

Yeah I'll wait a bit until making the final decision. I did order a relatively cheap Corsair RM850x. Might come in handy even if I don't upgrade.

How is that GPU? How is the noise levels under load?

 

[boomstik360]

Yeah, but it's like instead of €650 for a 4070 it would be €620.



Yeah I'll wait a bit until making the final decision. I did order a relatively cheap Corsair RM850x. Might come in handy even if I don't upgrade.

How is that GPU? How is the noise levels under load?

Oh that defeats the purpose. Bummer.

 

[Frick]

Oh that defeats the purpose. Bummer.

Sometimes you can find really good deals, but since the pandemic started they have gotten incredibly rare, and things have never returned to normal.

 

[Frick]

So the 6950xt happened, and I thought the high idle RAM clocks when on multi monitor thing had been solved, but apparently not. The controller load is at 0%, but still.

 

[oxrufiioxo]

So the 6950xt happened, and I thought the high idle RAM clocks when on multi monitor thing had been solved, but apparently not. The controller load is at 0%, but still.

That's been an AMD bugbear for a long time it seems.

 

[Bobaganoosh]

I read through this ready to suggest some power supplies until I saw you bought one (good choice, by the way...), and now it seems you've also bought a 6950XT? For some time, it was quite hard to beat the value there. That was a quiet launch that ended up being a really good card. They've been a bit harder to find lately (at least where I am). Sounds like you made some pretty reasonable choices there.