Swapped Modems, same model, static WAN IP, Router couldn't reconnect

[videobruce]

No Firewall in Router or in O/S
Static IP addresses for all my devices except for a ATA (Obi202)
Nothing special or fancy in the LAN.
All wired except for a Laptop.

Long story short, I swapped identical Modems that gave a static WAN IP address (yes it was static!) Both had a RF connection, new one showed connected. I moved the Router cable to the new modem with no reboot of the Router.

No connection to the Internet. I rebooted the Router, still nothing. I then noted there was IP assigned. I did a DHCP release and renew twice. Still nothing.

I then reset the Router (which I didn't want to do), still nothing. No WAN IP assigned still.
I changed the LAN start IP adress from 100 to 2 since I use static IP address and after a minute the Router finally received a WAN IP address.

Questions;
1. Going from one identical Modem to another that passes an IDENTICAL IP address to the Router, is it still necessary to reboot the Router?
2. Even after rebooting, why wasn't there connectivity between the Modem & Router, even thou the Modem 'Link' LED showed connected and with activity?
3. After the Router reset, is spite of the LAN starting address at 100 which was outside of the static IP's of my devices, why didn't the Router get the WAN address from the Modem??

Win7
Spectrum ISP
Zoom 5341J Modem
TP-Link WDR-3600 Router running dd-wrt firmware

 

[dorsetknob]

you need to configure the new Router

to

Have the same Settings as the one it replaced
While the Hardware may be Identical
software configurations may not be
so you need to reconfigure

 

[videobruce]

The Router is not new, it's the same Router.

The Modems were swapped. I stated nothing about the Router being swapped.

 

[Kursah]

Does your ISP need to send any kind of provisioning to the modem to authorize its MAC address to pass network traffic?

Have you verified with your ISP that you could swap out the modem without issue?

Did you connect a workstation or laptop directly to the modems Ethernet interface and attempt static and DHCP and verify if you could pass network traffic at all?

So there are two ways I see public static IP addresses deployed/provisioned up here on most services.

The first is static assignment with MAC assignment(s) for authorized interfaces.

The second is DHCP with a /30 network to limit to one IP address for any authorized device, though usually no MAC filtering so you can use whatever modem you want.

What I see and experience may be different from what you are in your area. But sounds to me like you may need to reach out to your ISP.

 

[Jetster]

You need to call your ISP when you change modems.
If you power cycle your router and modem it should connect those two but your ISP has to connect the new mac address. You can't just switch modems

 

[videobruce]

Yes, I had Spectrum provision/authorize the Modem. I probably gone thru this a half a dozen times over the years. I didn't figure that would of been necessary to state that. That included giving them the MAC of the new Modem.

I had my Desktop on when this was occurring. As soon as I confirmed that the Modem was rebooted after he provisioned it which was when I lost the call, (I'm on VoIP), I moved the Router cable from the old to the new Modem. Nothing was connected to the new Modem when it was initially provisioned. Like I stated, I have done this more than once before with no issue. Probably three times from going to or from my equipment to theirs for one reason or another (usually a service change).

 

[AsRock]

Does your ISP need to send any kind of provisioning to the modem to authorize its MAC address to pass network traffic?

Have you verified with your ISP that you could swap out the modem without issue?

Did you connect a workstation or laptop directly to the modems Ethernet interface and attempt static and DHCP and verify if you could pass network traffic at all?

So there are two ways I see public static IP addresses deployed/provisioned up here on most services.

The first is static assignment with MAC assignment(s) for authorized interfaces.

The second is DHCP with a /30 network to limit to one IP address for any authorized device, though usually no MAC filtering so you can use whatever modem you want.

What I see and experience may be different from what you are in your area. But sounds to me like you may need to reach out to your ISP.

Yeah his ISP might require a phone call, although some don't, i was told i would havve to with Comcast while thats not totally true and just waiting with the new modem installed it updated and soon after started to work.

His ISP might not even support his modem.

 

[videobruce]

If it wasn't supported, it wouldn't of been activated.
Of course it's supported, why would it of been in use already if it wasn't.

TWC/Spectrum does have a auto-attendant setup to provision a new Modem, but I have never used it. I prefer to 'talk' to a live person. I have had field techs get a new Modem provisioned, but I can't say if they ever give the CSR a MAC address or not.

 

[Kursah]

Yes, I had Spectrum provision/authorize the Modem. I probably gone thru this a half a dozen times over the years. I didn't figure that would of been necessary to state that. That included giving them the MAC of the new Modem.

The more you details you elect to provide the better it is for everyone involved, between those seeking help and those providing it.

I had my Desktop on when this was occurring. As soon as I confirmed that the Modem was rebooted after he provisioned it which was when I lost the call, (I'm on VoIP), I moved the Router cable from the old to the new Modem. Nothing was connected to the new Modem when it was initially provisioned. Like I stated, I have done this more than once before with no issue. Probably three times from going to or from my equipment to theirs for one reason or another (usually a service change).

Have you confirmed firmware and hardware revisions between new and old modem?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again, I've had plenty of lower-level tech support fail me on a modem provision. Another option is to return your new modem, and get another one of the same, or even go with a different model. There is a chance the new device isn't working correctly if everything else works.

Which leads to you mentioning above that you had your "Desktop on", does that mean you had it directly connected to the Ethernet port on your modem to confirm an Internet connection? Or just you had it connected to your router on your old modem while they provisioned the new one?

I changed the LAN start IP adress from 100 to 2 since I use static IP address and after a minute the Router finally received a WAN IP address.

This line doesn't make sense, can you please clarify?

Your LAN subnet settings shouldn't affect your WAN subnet configuration at all, and while they may be close they should never be the same subnet on both ends of the network. At least between an ISP and end-user. That's what NAT is for in IPv4.

In a home or virtual lab messing around I've setup a virtual PFSense to use the same subnet for WAN and LAN, but disabled the DHCP server on the LAN-side to prevent issues with the current LAN DHCP server.

Also, you shouldn't be receiving LAN private address (per RFC 1918) on your WAN port unless your modem is a modem/router combo, though I've seen some very small ISP's do that before.

Questions;
1. Going from one identical Modem to another that passes an IDENTICAL IP address to the Router, is it still necessary to reboot the Router?

Yes, in most cases this is best practice to fully re-initialize the router, ports and running config. But you can also disable and enable the interface on the router if it is capable of allowing such. Not sure on your router even with DD-WRT if that's possible so a reboot should have sufficed.

2. Even after rebooting, why wasn't there connectivity between the Modem & Router, even thou the Modem 'Link' LED showed connected and with activity?

Did you confirm in the router's GUI that it showed an UP connection instead of DOWN? Interesting the modem showed activity, could this have been when the router was performing it's DHCP inquiries which are seemingly failing?

Have you reviewed the logs for both the router and modem? If so what did you find?

Source: http://tobias-tobin.blogspot.com/2013/09/zoom-5341j-cable-modem-how-to-access.html
Source 2: https://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Logging_with_DD-WRT#Displaying_logs_in_your_web_browser

3. After the Router reset, is spite of the LAN starting address at 100 which was outside of the static IP's of my devices, why didn't the Router get the WAN address from the Modem??

Not sure what your LAN config has to do with your WAN config, they should be separate aside from DHCP config for gateway and possibly DNS. Please clarify?


Have you escalated your issue with your ISP to confirm they're correctly provisioning your connection?
Have you requested a temporary DHCP provision to see if that changes anything?
You still haven't clearly stated that you had Internet access with a device connected directly to the new modem, nor if it was via DHCP or static configuration of your NIC. "Desktop on" could mean powered on for all we know.

I've spent years working with Charter/Spectrum/Optimum, CenturyLink, Blackfoot, Cox, etc. If I've learned anything, it is that odds are the tier 1 support isn't doing something correctly with the provisioning of your modem's configuration, if you haven't, get your case escalated. That isn't always the case, but if everything else between the modems (sans MAC) is exactly the same, then there's no reason it shouldn't work and that to me, points to either a faulty device or ISP issue. Might be worth replacing the new device, especially if you can't get any network-capable device to find the Internet through it once properly provisioned, and I'd push a little harder on the ISP. Hopefully that helps and we make some forward progress.

 

[eidairaman1]

You need to call your ISP when you change modems.
If you power cycle your router and modem it should connect those two but your ISP has to connect the new mac address. You can't just switch modems

The only ones I know of that need a call to the isp is Docsis cable modems, DSL just had to be ADLS2+ or VDSL compatible and just require the user credentials

 

[jboydgolfer]

New modem= new mac or hw id?

 

[eidairaman1]

New modem= new mac or hw id

Mac can be changed too

 

[jboydgolfer]

I thought that was the reason people had to call into their ISP and have a modem enabled, otherwise what would stop your neighbor from just splitting your coaxial cable ,plugging in their own modem ,and piggybacking off your broadband Internet?

But im just a layman

 

[AsRock]

Maybe he should just connect the computer directly to the modem and trouble shoot from that then see if it starts working. I know when i got a replacement modem i had to wait 30 minutes for the update start to finish.

Motorola modems were good that way and if people actually read the manual a lot of people would not need to contact the ISP.

Maybe his is trying the same thing but not given time it's never going to work as it might be restarting as it was interrupted.

 

[eidairaman1]

I thought that was the reason people had to call into their ISP and have a modem enabled, otherwise what would stop your neighbor from just splitting your coaxial cable ,plugging in their own modem ,and piggybacking off your broadband Internet?

But im just a layman

It is but if you have same exact modem it does help if you can get in to advanced interface and change it to match the other unit

 

[brandonwh64]

If it wasn't supported, it wouldn't of been activated.
Of course it's supported, why would it of been in use already if it wasn't.

Not true, I have spectrum and my modem took a crap while my family was on vacation so when I got home I went to wall mart and bought the cheapest POS DOCSIS modem they had and the lady at charter said it was not supported but activated the MAC for me anyway. It worked until I had spectrum come out and give me one of their modems.

 

[SnakeDoctor]

Backup the old modems config to file (if working) and upload config file to new modem
Restart modem

 

[videobruce]

Have you confirmed firmware and hardware revisions between new and old modem?

No, never would of though of this, to many other things going on.

Another option is to return your new modem, and get another one of the same, or even go with a different model.

The new one is fine (so far), it's the old one that is in question.

Which leads to you mentioning above that you had your "Desktop on", does that mean you had it directly connected to the Ethernet port on your modem to confirm an Internet connection? Or just you had it connected to your router on your old modem while they provisioned the new one?

No direct connection, never did that before or had to.
I bet I swapped Modems at least twice before and NEVER had any of this happen.

This line doesn't make sense, can you please clarify?
Your LAN subnet settings shouldn't affect your WAN subnet configuration at all, and while they may be close they should never be the same subnet on both ends of the network. At least between an ISP and end-user. That's what NAT is for in IPv4.

The default LAN start address range in the Router was 192.168.1.100. I changed it to 192.168.1.2

Did you confirm in the router's GUI that it showed an UP connection instead of DOWN? Interesting the modem showed activity, could this have been when the router was performing it's DHCP inquiries which are seemingly failing?
Have you reviewed the logs for both the router and modem? If so what did you find?

The "Internet" LED was flashing if that is what you meant. Any text entries within the menus were not. The WAN Domain Name nor the WAN address, even the time was not set.

This is the etire log. This was purchased late January this year as refurbished. I initially activated it to be sure it was working, then put it in storage.

Time Priority Description
Tue Nov 21 22:05:57 2017 Critical (3) Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - ...
Tue Nov 21 12:44:51 2017 Critical (3) REG RSP not received;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a:4e:18;CMTS-MAC=00:01:...
Tue Nov 21 12:44:40 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Tue Nov 21 12:44:40 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Tue Nov 21 12:44:17 2017 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Un...
Tue Nov 21 12:43:44 2017 Critical (3) Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - ...
Mon Nov 20 23:14:24 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Mon Nov 20 23:14:24 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Mon Nov 20 23:01:35 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Mon Nov 20 23:01:35 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Mon Nov 20 23:01:15 2017 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a...
Mon Nov 20 23:01:05 2017 Notice (6) Received REG-RSP while in REG-HOLD1 state;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a:...
Mon Nov 20 23:01:02 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Mon Nov 20 23:01:02 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Time Not Established Warning (5) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response ;CM-MAC...
Time Not Established Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a...
Tue Nov 21 00:00:23 2017 Critical (3) Resetting the cable modem due to docsDevResetNow
Mon Nov 20 23:56:57 2017 Critical (3) Started Unicast Maintenance Ranging - No Response received - ...
Mon Nov 20 23:44:18 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Mon Nov 20 23:44:18 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Time Not Established Warning (5) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response ;CM-MAC...
Time Not Established Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a...
Wed Feb 01 13:08:46 2017 Critical (3) Received Response to Broadcast Maintenance Request, But no Un...
Wed Feb 01 13:08:46 2017 Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC f...
Wed Feb 01 13:08:42 2017 Warning (5) MDD message
timeout;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a:4e:18;CMTS-MAC=00:01:5...
Wed Feb 01 13:08:42 2017 Critical (3) SYNC Timing Synchronization failure - Failed to acquire FEC f...
Tue Jan 31 18:39:16 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.9;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Tue Jan 31 18:39:16 2017 Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8;CM-MAC=fc:4a:...
Tue Jan 31 18:39:16 2017 Warning (5) DHCP WARNING - Non-critical field invalid in response ;CM-MAC...
Tue Jan 31 18:39:10 2017 Critical (3) No Ranging Response received - T3 time-out;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a...
Tue Jan 31 18:39:01 2017 Error (4) DHCP RENEW sent - No response for IPv4;CM-MAC=fc:4a:e9:0a:4e:...
Tue Jan 31 18:39:01 2017 Critical (3) DHCP RENEW FAILED - Critical field invalid in response

 

[eidairaman1]

No, never would of though of this, to many other things going on.
The new one is fine (so far), it's the old one that is in question.
No direct connection, never did that before or had to.
I bet I swapped Modems at least twice before and NEVER had any of this happen.

Policies change, call the isp get them to fix it

 

[jboydgolfer]

It is but if you have same exact modem it does help if you can get in to advanced interface and change it to match the other unit

years ago I lived with a roommate who (for some reason or another) got banned from using twitch.com. At the time I actually streamed video games quite a bit, but I didn't really care because he was the one who got banned & not me. Well unfortunately I WAS blocked from the website ,because apparently the way they do the ban ,is by blocking your modems/routers MAC address, or something similar. I was so pissed at the time ,that I looked into ways to get around it ,and inevitably I found out by switching the Mac address on my modem I was able to access the site just fine.

I don't know the specifics of how they're banning system works, or how what I did made it so the block was no longer active ,but I know that if I left the house and logged into my account elsewhere, I was able to use the site just fine because the ban wasn't on my account, it was on my network or my MAC address or whatever.

The reason I mention it is because yes switching the MAC address or device ID is a great option to have I agree with you 100%


i dont recall what modem i had at the time, but i DO know the Router was a netgear WNDR 3800. im certain the modem was just a basic Charter provided one though, likely Cisco or the other company

 

[videobruce]

Not sure what your LAN config has to do with your WAN config, they should be separate aside from DHCP config for gateway and possibly DNS. Please clarify?
Have you escalated your issue with your ISP to confirm they're correctly provisioning your connection?

That was my question. It was somewhat after I did that, did the Router establish the connection from the ISP.
To the other question, the answer was in my OP, sorry it wasn't clear;

I changed the LAN start IP address from 100 to 2 since I use static IP address and after a minute the Router finally received a WAN IP address.

Yes, after that and as of now all is ok as far as this issue was concerned. It' was getting there that I couldn't understand.

 

[Kursah]

No, never would of though of this, to many other things going on.
The new one is fine (so far), it's the old one that is in question.
No direct connection, never did that before or had to.
I bet I swapped Modems at least twice before and NEVER had any of this happen.

The direct connection is a common thing that even Level 1 ISP tech support may ask you to do to confirm a connection, I've done that at least 100 times in the field if not more. I'm kind of surprised during this matter they've never asked you to do that. But as a future diagnostic metric, it is something you can do also to confirm if it is your router or not that's the issue.

The default LAN start address range in the Router was 192.168.1.100. I changed it to 192.168.1.2

The "Internet" LED was flashing if that is what you meant. Any text entries within the menus were not. The WAN Domain Name nor the WAN address, even the time was not set.

This is the etire log. This was purchased late January this year as refurbished. I initially activated it to be sure it was working, then put it in storage.

The way you explain your LAN address affecting your WAN address in prior posts to this are what confused me, and made me wonder WTF you were talking about, still not entirely sure if you felt it needed changed because of your WAN issue? You shouldn't have to change your LAN because of your WAN, period. You can change your router to any IP address in a /24 subnet between .1 and .254. That being said, .0 and .255 are reserved to identify and broadcast the LAN subnet.

So the logs you posted for the Modem had a lot of repeated errors posted in them that means there's an obvious issue. The actual meaning of those errors is however not as obvious, so I did a quick copy and paste in Google of this: Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8

Found this right away as the first result: http://forums.timewarnercable.com/t5/Connectivity/Predictable-disconnects/td-p/1016

The solution there confirms what we've been trying to tell you, and the irony here shouldn't be ignored.

That's just a quick search but it further confirms my suspicions you need to escalate the issue. The best part is I searched that error line, and the dude in on TW's forum has the same modem as you do. Again, the irony here shouldn't be ignored, press your ISP to escalate the matter. Just because it worked before, doesn't mean one should assume it will now...especially with ISP's.

Feel free to research that error some more based off of my findings, that's where I'd be looking if I were you. Sounds like you need to escalate your situation with your ISP, or as stated before, your device is having issues it wasn't prior.

 

[videobruce]

Mac can be changed too

How does one change a hardware MAC address??

Maybe he should just connect the computer directly to the modem and trouble shoot from that then see if it starts working. I know when i got a replacement modem i had to wait 30 minutes for the update start to finish.
Maybe his is trying the same thing but not given time it's never going to work as it might be restarting as it was interrupted.

Never though of it, again, never had to and never had to wait that long.

It is but if you have same exact modem it does help if you can get in to advanced interface and change it to match the other unit

How does one do or get one of those? I thought all of these were locked out except for the lame status screen.

Backup the old modems config to file (if working) and upload config file to new modem
Restart modem

And you do that how??

 

[eidairaman1]

How does one change a hardware MAC address??

Never though of it, again, never had to and never had to wait that long.

How does one do or get one of those? I thought all of these were locked out except for the lame status screen.

And you do that how??

Depending on model there are ones that have a built in service interface, you have to be plugged in via ethernet from computer to modem, enter it's ip address in address bar of a web browser and a password prompt would appear. Hardware macs are encoded into the firmware/bios chip, however certain models they can be changed like those on a motherboard.

 

[videobruce]

The way you explain your LAN address affecting your WAN address in prior posts to this are what confused me, and made me wonder WTF you were talking about, still not entirely sure if you felt it needed changed because of your WAN issue? You shouldn't have to change your LAN because of your WAN, period. You can change your router to any IP address in a /24 subnet between .1 and .254. That being said, .0 and .255 are reserved to identify and broadcast the LAN subnet.

Again, I'm sorry that I didn't make that clearer.
There were two issues, the 1st was the reason for the thread, the 2nd was just to correct for static LAN device IP issues due to being out of range. I didn't make that change to attempt to 'fix' the lack of getting the WAN address.

So the logs you posted for the Modem had a lot of repeated errors posted in them that means there's an obvious issue. The actual meaning of those errors is however not as obvious, so I did a quick copy and paste in Google of this: Error (4) Missing BP Configuration Setting TLV Type: 17.8

Yes, I couldn't help but notice the ridiculously long list of errors.

I have found, even before all of this that those lights on that Modem border on useless, as they can all look 'good' but that doesn't mean all is good!

This specific incident comes on the heels of two others, the 1st has been reported to the NY State PSC (high latency & jitter at one of their hops causing dropped VoIP calls and some choppy/distorted audio), the 2nd MAY be the problem with the original Modem which should be in a different thread (massive drop in speed while 'streaming' from Amazon Prime causing complete loss of viewing) .

Depending on model there are ones that have a built in service interface, you have to be plugged in via ethernet from computer to modem, enter it's ip address in address bar of a web browser and a password prompt would appear. Hardware macs are encoded into the firmware/bios chip, however certain models they can be changed like those on a motherboard.

All of that is news for me, I always thought MAC addresses are 'burned' into the device (other than O/S software 'spoofing' the number).