Upgrade a system from 3700x

[izy]

I cant decide if i should go on this particular system for 5700x or 5800x (or something else).

PSU - Thermaltake Smart SE 530W Bronze (SPS-530MPCB)
GPU - RTX 2060 super ( 175 W )
CASE - mid tower Thermaltake ( i cant fit AIO cooler , so cooling option has only on air) 4 Fans.
Edit: Motherboard - B450 Tomahawk MAX

CPU options - 5800x - 205 Euro , 5700x - 180 Euro, 5700G - 170 Euro, 5600X - 155 Euro
New cooler (if you guys can recommend for the specific CPU option) for about 30E - 40E (can be 50E or more but not crazy as i can get good prices)

Its not about the CPU price its more about if the PSU can handle it OK and its not going to thermal throttle too much. I have some ideas for what i should go but as im here doesnt hurt to ask , maybe im missing something.
I know 5800x is a beast but ive heard that it needs a lot of cooling and power, anyway i could set it to a lower TDP, this system wont be upgraded for some time after this (i think ill just change it if ill need more power)
I dont intend to upgrade anything else on the system , its working perfectly at the moment but i need a bit more CPU power , the computer is mainly used on compiling stuff , some photoshop , some transcoding, gaming time to time ( 50%+ of it is in World of Warcraft) plus some other stuff (vmware etc..). The only thing i will buy is another Air cooler as im going to gift the 3700x to someone with the current Prism RBG cooler included.
I dont think this GPU needs too much CPU power but my main game (World of Warcraft) is CPU bound and the GPU even goes to lower power states in some scenarios. (fps cap to 140 / games related comment)
I like my systems to be "good all around" so that nothing will bottleneck other things too much. ( i mean i wouldnt go for 5800x3d on a 2060 super)

Spoiler alert: my first option so far is the 5700x

 

[cvaldes]

I have both the 3700X and 5800X CPUs and in real world usage I think the performance gain is about +15% between the two products for CPU intensive workloads (like Handbrake encodes which I occasionally perform). So a 10-minute compile on the 3700X might save you 90 seconds on the 5800X.

It's certainly not going to give you 15% more fps while gaming or make web browsing any faster since both of those usage cases aren't optimized for multiple threads. L2 and L3 cache sizes are identical.

I have PBO turned on for both but no other overclocking adjustments. The 3700X maxes out around 120W PPT, the 5800X around 150W PPT, a difference of 30W which is within the ballpark of the 40W spread between their official published default TDP ratings (65W and 105W thermal TDP per AMD).

The 3700X has a lower base clock and uses less power at idle. Don't know if that's a concern of yours.

I don't have a definitive answer whether or not your 550W PSU will be sufficient for the 5800X. You might be able to shave off a few watts via undervolting, not sure if you are interested in tinkering with that.

Since your 3700X seems to be in good working order, you should consider waiting until AMD releases their next generation CPUs within the next couple of months. That should prompt further price reductions on the Zen 3 generation parts.

 

[Dr. Dro]

I have both the 3700X and 5800X CPUs and in real world usage I think the performance gain is about +15% between the two products for CPU intensive workloads (like Handbrake encodes which I occasionally perform). So a 10-minute compile on the 3700X might save you 90 seconds on the 5800X.

It's certainly not going to give you 15% more fps while gaming or make web browsing any faster since both of those usage cases aren't optimized for multiple threads. L2 and L3 cache sizes are identical.

I have PBO turned on for both but no other overclocking adjustments. The 3700X maxes out around 120W PPT, the 5800X around 150W PPT, a difference of 30W which is within the ballpark of the 40W spread between their official published default TDP ratings (65W and 105W thermal TDP per AMD).

The 3700X has a lower base clock and uses less power at idle. Don't know if that's a concern of yours.

I don't have a definitive answer whether or not your 550W PSU will be sufficient for the 5800X. You might be able to shave off a few watts via undervolting, not sure if you are interested in tinkering with that.

I for one would say gaming is amongst the most intense increases you'll find going from Zen 2 to Zen 3, I went from the 3900XT to the 5950X and it was a massive improvement in general. Cache sizes may be identical but you have to remember that Zen 3's access to these resources is contiguous while Zen 2 has to deal with CCX partitioning, so there's that important detail.

All in all i'd tell OP to get the 5700X if he wants a CPU upgrade.

 

[HD64G]

5700X if you don't have or don't want to buy a good cooler and 5800X if you are able to cool it properly.

 

[cvaldes]

I for one would say gaming is amongst the most intense increases you'll find going from Zen 2 to Zen 3, I went from the 3900XT to the 5950X and it was a massive improvement in general. Cache sizes may be identical but you have to remember that Zen 3's access to these resources is contiguous while Zen 2 has to deal with CCX partitioning, so there's that important detail.

All in all i'd tell OP to get the 5700X if he wants a CPU upgrade.

5700X is a better choice, I would have purchased one if Zen 3's Ryzen 7 tier debuted with one but AMD waited two years to release this.

As far as CCX partitioning, I'm not sure how relevant that is in this case. The x600, x700, and x800 parts are all single CCD/CCX partitions to my knowledge. There's only one L2 and one L3 cache to access for the 3700X, 5700X, and 5800X CPUs. There are likely other architectural advantages that Zen 3 holds.

Still the point about purchase timing remains especially as OP has a perfectly serviceable CPU and isn't in a dire need for a replacement.

 

[Dr. Dro]

5700X is a better choice, I would have purchased one if Zen 3's Ryzen 7 tier debuted with one but AMD waited two years to release this.

As far as CCX partitioning, I'm not sure how relevant that is in this case. The x600, x700, and x800 parts are all single CCD/CCX partitions to my knowledge. There's only one L2 and one L3 cache to access for the 3700X, 5700X, and 5800X CPUs. There are likely other architectural advantages that Zen 3 holds.

Still the point about purchase timing remains especially as OP has a perfectly serviceable CPU and isn't in a dire need for a replacement.

Zen 2 has two CCX per CCD, while Zen 3 doubles CCX size (thus being one CCX per CCD). So even though they share a die, it is a 4+4 core/16+16MB configuration, instead of a straightforward 8 core/32 MB configuration.

This is even more exacerbated on Matisse Ryzen 9 parts, the 3900X/XT is 3+3+3+3 and the 3950X is 4+4+4+4 core with 16+16+16+16 MB L3 partitions, while the 5900X is 6+6 and the 5950X is 8+8/32+32 MB.

 

[cvaldes]

Heh, that is interesting. I learned something today, thank you.

I don't know if that explains why my 3700X idles at a far lower current draw versus the 5800X. Even my 5600X uses more power at idle than the 3700X.

I've kept my 3700X in my daily driver PC precisely because it has the smallest electrical footprint at idle amongst all of my CPUs (well, at least the Windows ones).

 

[izy]

Thanks for the comments , i think the main game i am playing , World of Warcraft , will get a massive FPS boosts (from the reviews i saw) with Zen3. But i dont want to upgrade only because of the game (it works fine in general) is more for the other stuff im doing plus i have good deals for zen 3 CPUS ( at least thats how i see it).
A normal work load for me when im using this sistem looks like this:
1. Vmware sessesion running ubuntu
2. World of warcraft in background , tabbing and playing when im out of ideas for the stuff im doing ( sometimes i just leave everything else opened and im just playing, its mostly using 1 2 cores heavily)
3. Many chrome tabs over multiple different Chrome sessions
4. 2 or 3 remote desktop connections or team viewer / vnc
5. Android studio
6. sometimes Photoshop
7. sometimes reencoding some mp3s or encoding mp3 as videos
8. sometimes streaming on twitch ( but im using the nvidia encoder and its very rare when im streaming this days)
9. Visual studio code
10. sometimes visual studio
11. some other stuff , like multiple ssh connections, ftp connections etc..

Sometimes can be all of them (rarely) or a combination of them (all the time, unless im only just playing something or i have to reboot the computer .. then i wont open all).
When im playing games (but is mostly like trying them out / excluding WOW) or new game most of the background stuff will be closed.

My main battle at this point is if i should go for 5800x (will have more power for a later date or in case ill need it ) or just grab the 5700x ( i feel like is better suited for this system and i think i just need an 8 core CPU). Is the 5800x worth for me the extra 25E + extra heat? (from what i read 5800x has a heat problem if you dont have great cooling)

 

[cvaldes]

The 5700X has been reviewed by Wiz here at TPU (I've linked the performance page) and you can view the differences between it and the 5800X.

Since power and thermals are a concern, it would appear that the 5700X is the better match for your current PSU.

 

[izy]

The 5700X has been reviewed by Wiz here at TPU (I've linked the performance page) and you can view the differences between it and the 5800X.

Since power and thermals are a concern, it would appear that the 5700X is the better match for your current PSU.

I saw it , yes , but as i said in my other post
"My main battle at this point is if i should go for 5800x (will have more power for a later date or in case ill need it ) or just grab the 5700x ( i feel like is better suited for this system and i think i just need an 8 core CPU). Is the 5800x worth for me the extra 25E + extra heat? (from what i read 5800x has a heat problem if you dont have great cooling)"

Edit: Will i feel sorry at any point that i didnt get the 5800x instead of 5700x? I dont know some multicore / single core workload , some nice game that wants more power .. something like that. + i dont want to have problems with my PSU , overheating etc.

Edit2: The PSU did a great job so far (even its old and low W) , it used to work with 1800x + RX 590.

 

[cvaldes]

Is the 5800x worth for me the extra 25E + extra heat? (from what i read 5800x has a heat problem if you dont have great cooling)"

I would vote 'no'. And I own one.

That's what you were asking for, right? An opinion?

Ultimately it's your money, your choice. Assuming you purchase from a reputable merchant with a reasonable customer satisfaction policy, you can return whatever you buy if you aren't happy with it (e.g., acoustics from your thermal solution are too distracting).

Since you're giving away the Wraith Prism cooler that came with the 3700X, you also need to buy a cooler anyhow.

 

[tussinman]

Thanks for the comments , i think the main game i am playing , World of Warcraft , will get a massive FPS boosts (from the reviews i saw) with Zen3.

Those reviews your seeing tho are using much faster graphic cards that can render super high FPS.

3700X vs 5700X on a RTX 2060 Super (which is like on par with a RX 6600) might not actually that signficant of a boost.

To be honest the only thing that might even been drastically noticeable benchmark wise is .1% or .01% lows but on a game that old that shouldn't even been a concern

 

[izy]

I would vote 'no'. And I own one.

That's what you were asking for, right? An opinion?

Ultimately it's your money, your choice. Assuming you purchase from a reputable merchant with a reasonable customer satisfaction policy, you can return whatever you buy if you aren't happy with it (e.g., acoustics from your thermal solution are too distracting).

Since you're giving away the Wraith Prism cooler that came with the 3700X, you also need to buy a cooler anyhow.

Yes, i was asking for people opinion for the best CPU + Cooler combo that can suite my needs on a longer term before i retire this system.

A bench i could find for the game i am mostly playing: (the gpu is not that important , 2060 super can max it out easy, 3700x i think it does close to 3600 + 5% 10% more maybe?)
The bench are relative as you cant really bench WoW you can only aproximate.

 

[cvaldes]

I am using an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 AIO on the 5800X currently. It has more than enough thermal capacity for this CPU. Is it the "best" cooler for this CPU? I have no idea. I have a limited selection of CPU coolers at my disposal however the LF 360 was already installed in the case where the 5800X resides so I used it. It's certainly more the 30-40 euros but I already owned it.

Anyhow, best of luck finding the right cooler in your price range!

 

[izy]

I am using an Arctic Liquid Freezer II 360 AIO on the 5800X currently. It has more than enough thermal capacity for this CPU. Is it the "best" cooler for this CPU? I have no idea. I have a limited selection of CPU coolers at my disposal however the LF 360 was already installed in the case where the 5800X resides so I used it. It's certainly more the 30-40 euros but I already owned it.

Sadly i can use only an air cooler and it cant be huge.

 

[cvaldes]

Posting a photo of your case might be helpful to those making suggestions about the air cooler, so they know what the space is to work with.

Many case manufacturers list maximum clearances in their product specs to provide guidance to potential owners about compatibility issues, particularly with CPU coolers (height usually) and GPUs (length and thickness). It's up to you to figure this out since you didn't bother to include a model number for your Thermaltake case.

Also, there's no note about what type of memory sticks you have and whether or not you have clearance issues with those. Again, a photo would provide insight into this matter if you chose to provide one.

 

[izy]

Posting a photo of your case might be helpful to those making suggestions about the air cooler, so they know what the space is to work with. Many case manufacturers list maximum clearances in their product specs to provide guidance to potential owners about compatibility issues, particularly with CPU coolers (height usually) and GPUs (length and thickness).

Also, there's no note about what type of memory sticks you have and whether or not you have clearance issues with those. Again, a photo would provide insight into this matter if you chose to provide one.

This one (its an very old system ) : https://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/tt_commander_msi/

Edit: The motherboard goes like very close to the vents on top so you cant even fit a normal fan.

 

[cvaldes]

Yeah, you need to take a picture of YOUR system with the components installed, not an old marketing photo from Thermaltake. Like I mentioned, the type of RAM modules you are using affects compatibility with air coolers because they might bump into the heat pipes.

And worse, this photo is the backside, not of the space where the CPU air cooler would reside.

I found another photo on the Overclockersclub website but there's no way for me to accurately judge the width of this case from photos. Take a measurement yourself: you own this case after all.

As an American, I don't keep track of local market pricing in Europe which varies by country anyhow, another thing you didn't bother to mention (where you live).

 

[izy]

Yeah, you need to take a picture of YOUR system with the components installed, not an old marketing photo from Thermaltake. Like I mentioned, the type of RAM modules you are using affects compatibility with air coolers because they might bump into the heat pipes.

And worse, this photo is the backside, not of the space where the CPU air cooler would reside.

I found another photo on the Overclockersclub website but there's no way for me to accurately judge the width of this case from photos. Take a measurement yourself: you own this case after all.

As an American, I don't keep track of local market pricing in Europe which varies by country anyhow, another thing you didn't bother to mention (where you live).

I cant take a pic of the computer as its in a bad place at the moment (behind the desk somehow), but that link i showed you is with the case review.

Budget pick would be 5700x + ID-COOLING SE-224-XT ( what i was thinking about so far ).

 

[cvaldes]

Sounds like a reasonable combination, let us know how it works out for you.

 

[izy]

Sounds like a reasonable combination, let us know how it works out for you.

If the 5800x with ID-COOLING SE-224-XT and the PSU can work i dont mind getting the 5800x but i am not sure , thats what is this topic about.
This is my second computer at a different location i mostly live at the moment so i would like it to do the job while not having to invest much money into it , ill give it away when im done here to my nephew but in all this time ill keep using it 50%/50% of my time , my home computer has an 3900x and im thinking to jump for am5 or intel for the next upgrade.

 

[cvaldes]

No way for anyone here to make an authoritative statement.

PC cooling is a holistic system based on various components in your case (again a photo would help), case fans, airflow, ambient temperature, usage cases, average and peak loads, etc. You can't just add up a bunch of numbers from a stack of product spec sheets.

Just buy from a merchant that lets you return unwanted items.

Best of luck!

 

[izy]

No way for anyone here to make an authoritative statement.

PC cooling is a holistic system based on various components in your case (again a photo would help), case fans, airflow, ambient temperature, usage cases, average and peak loads, etc. You can't just add up a bunch of numbers from a stack of product spec sheets.

Just buy from a merchant that lets you return unwanted items.

Best of luck!

Yes , i am just asking for opinions not an authoritative statement. (people around here tend to get so serious for nothing ^_^)
I cant return items unless they are broken for the prices that i showed i can buy them. (for returning option ill have to pay 30% more, and i dont want to buy and return them anyway , what ill buy ill stick with unless its broken in some way)

Hwinfo:

 

[Zach_01]

AMD's TDP is not the max power draw of the CPUs but only a indication of the minimum cooling requirements (for manufacturers cooling solutions).
Its a calculation of the heat dissipation (in W) towards the cooler under very specific thermal conditions.




A lot more (technical) information about it can be found here:

AMD Ryzen TDP Deep-Dive & What Cooler Manufacturers Think of "TDP"

------------------------------------------------------

3700X
TDP 65W
Actual max power draw 88W (PPT)

5700X
TDP 65W
Actual max power draw 76W (PPT)

5800X
TDP 105W
Actual max power draw 142W (PPT)

5700X is by far the most efficient CPU among the 3 and may actually run a bit cooler than 3700X, at least for MT. Single or low-middle loads is a different story but I wouldn't expect much differences between them.

Depending on your gaming resolution the 5700X can make some serious difference on both max FPS and (definately) on the lows.
1080p will give the highest difference as this is a more CPU bound res against 1440p/4K.

This is due to higher IPC, higher clocks, and the unified core/cache design of Zen3 against Zen2.

-------------------------------------------------------

Keep in mind that this is with RTX3080 10GB. Less powered GPU will create smaller differences.

RYZEN 5 3600X vs RYZEN 7 3700X vs RYZEN 5 5600X vs RYZEN 7 5700X || PC GAMES TEST ||

 

[izy]

AMD's TDP is not the max power draw of the CPUs but only a indication of the minimum cooling requirements (for manufacturers cooling solutions).
Its a calculation of the heat dissipation (in W) towards the cooler under very specific thermal conditions.


View attachment 259946

A lot more (technical) information about it can be found here:

AMD Ryzen TDP Deep-Dive & What Cooler Manufacturers Think of "TDP"

------------------------------------------------------

3700X
TDP 65W
Actual max power draw 88W (PPT)

5700X
TDP 65W
Actual max power draw 76W (PPT)

5800X
TDP 105W
Actual max power draw 142W (PPT)

5700X is by far the most efficient CPU among the 3 and may actually run a bit cooler than 3700X, at least for MT. Single or low-middle loads is a different story but I wouldn't expect much differences between them.

Depending on your gaming resolution the 5700X can make some serious difference on both max FPS and (definately) on the lows.
1080p will give the highest difference as this is a more CPU bound res against 1440p/4K.

This is due to higher IPC, higher clocks, and the unified core/cache design of Zen3 against Zen2.

-------------------------------------------------------

Keep in mind that this is with RTX3080 10GB. Less powered GPU will create smaller differences.

RYZEN 5 3600X vs RYZEN 7 3700X vs RYZEN 5 5600X vs RYZEN 7 5700X || PC GAMES TEST ||

Yep , i know this and you are right.
Is it worth getting the 5800X over 5700x considering it draws almost double power? Here where im standing at , its not the money difference , i would like to get the 5800x but feels like the 5700x can fit better in this system , lower power draw (helps this PSU and VRM) , lower heat and not too much behind the 5800x.

I would go for 5800x , no questions asked , if i would know that my PSU can handle it (prob i wont know if i dont try it ) , cooler can handle it , my motherboard (b450 tomahawk max) can deliver the power for it , and ofc if i am getting better performance. ( no point having an 5800x with 5700x performance because low power or too much heat , thow if ill be using this system long enough i could just upgrade the cooler and get the extra performance or just buy a better one from start)
If i want to be on the safe side i know the 5700x would just overperform in many ways my 3700x and its the way to go, i just want to hear different opinions , mostly from people that are using this CPUs (or educated guess) .

EDIT: Long story short: What cooler do i need for 5800x and what would be fine for 5700x , can this PSU handle it ? (it used to handle 1800x) Can the motherboard VRM handle it?