Upgrade advice and questions

[BaRRoS]

I finally planning an upgrade to my old 3570K but need some advice since it's been 10 years since I did a platform upgrade.
The PC will mostly be used to gaming since I have a corporate laptop for work. Also I don't want any high-end/premium stuff since experience tells me I will end up using 5% of that premium stuff.

So, I'm thinking of the following new parts:
CPU: Ryzen 7600X or 7600 - Any pros/cons on any one of them? Why should I chose one over the other? They're almost the same price...
MB: Must be mATX. First I was thinking of ASUS b650m Prime but some friends told me that Prime boards are usually low quality. Should I go ASUS TUF? Does the price increase justify it? Any other option?
RAM: My only question here is if should I go 16GB or 32GB. The specs I'll chose based on the QVL of the chosen MB.
NVME: I'll probably pick the cheapest 1TB or 2TB from a reliable vendor (anything will be better than what I have now).

Parts that I'll keep:
Case: Thermaltake Core V21
GPU: EVGA RTX3080
PSU: Corsair AX850 - 80 Plus Gold - I believe that it should be enough but comments on this pls.
Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120 - It's compatible with Zen 4 but is it enough to cool the 7600(X)?
Storage: 3 WD HDDs 2TB/3TB.

Hope I'm not forgetting anything.
Thoughts?

 

[dirtyferret]

Why should I chose one over the other? They're almost the same price...

If they are almost the same price than get the 7600x as it performs better in gaming

ASUS b650m Prime but some friends told me that Prime boards are usually low quality

low quality as in low features? low quality of parts? low reliability? Asus boards for the most are reliable (as are most mobos from the big four)

Should I go ASUS TUF? Does the price increase justify it?

maybe, get the mobo that has the features you need it be it expansion slots, VRM, audio, etc.,

My only question here is if should I go 16GB or 32GB. The specs I'll chose based on the QVL of the chosen MB.

considering on how long you went with your last set up I would go 32GB

I'll probably pick the cheapest 1TB or 2TB from a reliable vendor

you mean lowest price offering from the reliable vendor as reliability and cheap hardly go hand in hand

 

[Macro Device]

Noticed your extremely high refresh rate monitor. Considering you've not cheaped yourself out on cooling, go for a 7600X or even a 7700. Additional 2 cores WILL come in handy.

32 GB is a bare minimum here due to your upgrade laziness and overall cheapness of RAM as of now. You don't need to be Bill Gates to afford it so go for 32.

Mobo-wise you should go for something like Gigabyte B650M Gaming X AX or MSI MAG B650M Mortar Wi-Fi, they look solid enough for any single digit core CPU.

Overclocking your CPU will make minimum sense if any. SSD strategy of yours makes all the sense in the world so I won't bother correcting on that one. Just avoid Kingspec, Netac and similar "Chinese Luxury" vendors.

GLHF

 

[dirtyferret]

Additional 2 cores WILL come in handy.

7600x offers the same performance as the 7700

 

[Macro Device]

offers

0. This guy upgrades once a decade. By the year of 2030, 8 cores will be relatively OK and 6 cores will meet complete obsoletion. Reference point: today's 9100F vs 10100F/9400F.
1. Even as of today, 8-core CPUs allow for higher 1% and 0.1% framerates which is very important for any gamer seeking for maximum comfort levels.
2. Price difference doesn't justify the very existence of 7600 series CPUs.

 

[dirtyferret]

Even as of today, 8-core CPUs allow for higher 1% and 0.1% framerates which is very important for any gamer seeking for maximum comfort levels.

yeah the old fallback of the novice tech person of confusing cores with performance and failing to understand how they actually perform, guess "beginner" is an apt handle

techspot had the 1% for the 7600x(164 fps) and the 7700 (165fps) identical in their game test suite

 

[Macro Device]

yeah the old fallback of the novice tech person of confusing cores with performance and failing to understand how they actually perform, guess "beginner" is an apt handle

Unnovice me then, sensei, lol.

 

[dirtyferret]

Unnovice me then, sensei, lol.

on top of the game suite I linked above, you can also read this article

 

[Lei]

I'd wait for Intel 14th gen which is expected second half of 2023.

 

[Macro Device]

on top of the game suite I linked above, you can also read this article

The whole article doesn't even try to make my statement invalid because I'm comparing 6 Zen 4 cores to 8 Zen 4 cores which is obviously not in favour of the former. Whereas in today's gaming gains from going 2 cores more are negligible, 8-core CPUs (given the identical arch and clocks) are better in tasks where there is no such word as "enough cores" and will be better in the games of future just because it's the way how it works. Background tasks let their appetites grow (compare "naked" W8 CPU utilisation to the one of "naked" W11 which is N times higher, whereas browsers, Discord, and other software have this delta even higher), so do games.

Six fast cores is no nonsense enough for today. Two additional ones will not hurt anyone, the profit is just postponed.

 

[eidairaman1]

I finally planning an upgrade to my old 3570K but need some advice since it's been 10 years since I did a platform upgrade.
The PC will mostly be used to gaming since I have a corporate laptop for work. Also I don't want any high-end/premium stuff since experience tells me I will end up using 5% of that premium stuff.

So, I'm thinking of the following new parts:
CPU: Ryzen 7600X or 7600 - Any pros/cons on any one of them? Why should I chose one over the other? They're almost the same price...
MB: Must be mATX. First I was thinking of ASUS b650m Prime but some friends told me that Prime boards are usually low quality. Should I go ASUS TUF? Does the price increase justify it? Any other option?
RAM: My only question here is if should I go 16GB or 32GB. The specs I'll chose based on the QVL of the chosen MB.
NVME: I'll probably pick the cheapest 1TB or 2TB from a reliable vendor (anything will be better than what I have now).

Parts that I'll keep:
Case: Thermaltake Core V21
GPU: EVGA RTX3080
PSU: Corsair AX850 - 80 Plus Gold - I believe that it should be enough but comments on this pls.
Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120 - It's compatible with Zen 4 but is it enough to cool the 7600(X)?
Storage: 3 WD HDDs 2TB/3TB.

Hope I'm not forgetting anything.
Thoughts?

Bear in mind nvme has been known to disable pcie lanes or sata ports.

Id suggest a AsRock motherboard

 

[dirtyferret]

The whole article doesn't even try to make my statement invalid because I'm comparing 6 Zen 4 cores to 8 Zen 4 cores which is obviously not in favour of the former

if the article goes above your head and you can't incorporate the what was learned, that is a you problem. If you simply are trying to save face due to being embarrassed by your lack of knowledge, that is also a you problem. I can't help you anymore

Bear in mind nvme has been known to disable pcie lanes or sata ports.

very true or even reducing the throughput of the port, always important to read the manual of the mobo prior to buying it (you can look up manuals online from the manufacturer)

 

[dgianstefani]

yeah the old fallback of the novice tech person of confusing cores with performance and failing to understand how they actually perform, guess "beginner" is an apt handle

techspot had the 1% for the 7600x(164 fps) and the 7700 (165fps) identical in their game test suite

So if they're as fast now, get the 7700/7800X3D. The eight cores will pay off as games become more and more parallelized. We're still, somehow, only in the early days of DX12/Vulkan, and devs learning to use more than one thread.

I finally planning an upgrade to my old 3570K but need some advice since it's been 10 years since I did a platform upgrade.
The PC will mostly be used to gaming since I have a corporate laptop for work. Also I don't want any high-end/premium stuff since experience tells me I will end up using 5% of that premium stuff.

So, I'm thinking of the following new parts:
CPU: Ryzen 7600X or 7600 - Any pros/cons on any one of them? Why should I chose one over the other? They're almost the same price...
MB: Must be mATX. First I was thinking of ASUS b650m Prime but some friends told me that Prime boards are usually low quality. Should I go ASUS TUF? Does the price increase justify it? Any other option?
RAM: My only question here is if should I go 16GB or 32GB. The specs I'll chose based on the QVL of the chosen MB.
NVME: I'll probably pick the cheapest 1TB or 2TB from a reliable vendor (anything will be better than what I have now).

Parts that I'll keep:
Case: Thermaltake Core V21
GPU: EVGA RTX3080
PSU: Corsair AX850 - 80 Plus Gold - I believe that it should be enough but comments on this pls.
Cooler: Arctic Liquid Freezer II 120 - It's compatible with Zen 4 but is it enough to cool the 7600(X)?
Storage: 3 WD HDDs 2TB/3TB.

Hope I'm not forgetting anything.
Thoughts?

I'd also strongly recommend biting the $ bullet and buying an X3D CPU, if you're gonna keep your system for another decade, then the X3D is pretty much equivalent to a generational, or a multi generational gap in gaming performance compared to the base chips. The stacked cache tech pretty much mitigates the chiplet latency problem Zen has, and brings the gaming performance in line with the best of Intel, while also being much more power efficient than either normal Zen 4 or RPL which takes advantage of a much better frequency, IMC and lower memory latency to otherwise generally be better for gaming.

Don't buy the cheapest SSD or a vendor specific one, get a well reviewed TLC, avoid QLC at all costs, there's plenty of well-reviewed QLC unfortunately, and that's an easy trap to fall into.

You can see that the 5800X3D, a DDR4 AM4 part, is competitive with the single CCD Zen 4 parts that both have a newer architecture, much higher clocks and much faster memory, this is entirely due to the 3DVCache.

 

[dirtyferret]

We're still, somehow, only in the early days of DX12/Vulkan, and devs learning to use more than one thread.

Devs have been working with modern DX12 and Vulkan game engines for a while especially with all new games designed for the modern consoles. A lot of CPU game performance has to do with how Devs dump off rendering and develop game engines not just for consoles but also laptop CPUs that make up a huge share of gamers (laptops have been outselling desktops for over 15 years) . The second linked article also has a link to other hardware misconceptions that delves a bit more into that as well but really Hardware unboxed (and techspot since it's the same reviewers) have pushed the whole "stop judging CPUs by cores" that is so often done by the public. It's not that "six cores are enough" or "eight cores are future proof" as neither statement is accurate. Better performance now will offer better performance down the road. So the the 7600x and 7700 offer the same performance, you can make an argument for the slight edge the 7700 offers in multicore can make a difference once the multicore of the 7600x is maxed out and you can make an argument for the uptick in single core performance of the 7600x will make it better for more of the CPU lifespan as few games even need anywhere near its multicore performance. Fact is when one is struggling in performance so will the other regardless of which CPU you are talking about because they offer the same overall performance. If you want to more performance than the 7600x, look for the 78003DX or as Lei suggested a 14th gen Intel which will offer a six core CPU like the 14600k that will outperform any non AMD 3DX CPU even those with more cores because (drum roll) the 14th gen will offer more performance.

 

[dgianstefani]

Devs have been working with modern DX12 and Vulkan game engines for a while especially with all new games designed for the modern consoles. A lot of CPU game performance has to do with how Devs dump off rendering and develop game engines not just for consoles but also laptop CPUs that make up a huge share of gamers (laptops have been outselling desktops for over 15 years) . The second linked article also has a link to other hardware misconceptions that delves a bit more into that as well but really Hardware unboxed (and techspot since it's the same reviewers) have pushed the whole "stop judging CPUs by cores" that is so often done by the public. It's not that "six cores are enough" or "eight cores are future proof" as neither statement is accurate. Better performance now will offer better performance down the road. So the the 7600x and 7700 offer the same performance, you can make an argument for the slight edge the 7700 offers in multicore can make a difference once the multicore of the 7600x is maxed out and you can make an argument for the uptick in single core performance of the 7600x will make it better for more of the CPU lifespan as few games even need anywhere near its multicore performance. Fact is when one is struggling in performance so will the other regardless of which CPU you are talking about because they offer the same overall performance. If you want to more performance than the 7600x, look for the 78003DX or as Lei suggested a 14th gen Intel which will offer a six core CPU like the 14600k that will outperform any non AMD 3DX CPU even those with more cores because (drum roll) the 14th gen will offer more performance.

Here's the thing.

They may offer the same performance on a reviewer's testbench with only the game running.

In real life, when you have discord, chrome with tabs, any content creator or streamer software, music, etc. having a full eight cores makes a difference.

There's good reason why Intel performs better with E cores enabled than it does with them disabled, same goes for eight vs six on Zen.

 

[dirtyferret]

In real life, when you have discord, chrome with tabs, any content creator or streamer software, music, etc. having a full eight cores makes a difference.

well then we are talking about purchasing for specific need and the discussion goes from apples to apples, to apples to oranges as everyone's needs are different. I mean the performance of this "eight core" may not even be enough for your example once we bring in streaming software so the whole "core thing" is still not valid as we are talking about large multicore performance.

 

[Macro Device]

I can't help you anymore

Because you don't try, you only insult me. This is you who needs help.

It's just 5 games which work better on an 8-core CPU than on a 6-core one. And the further in the future the more games it will be where 8 is better than 6 ones of identical 1-core speed.

I see nothing to discuss here. Skimping on CPU just because 7600X is equal to 7700X in gaming today is not a valid strat.

 

[dirtyferret]

Because you don't try, you only insult me. This is you who needs help.

It's just 5 games which work better on an 8-core CPU than on a 6-core one. And the further in the future the more games it will be where 8 is better than 6 ones of identical 1-core speed.

I see nothing to discuss here. Skimping on CPU just because 7600X is equal to 7700X in gaming today is not a valid strat.

i've proved you wrong with professional reviews across gaming suites on two major sites , you want to toss an immature hissy fit go ahead but your cherry picked amateur links are pathetic attempt to save face

 

[tabascosauz]

If y'all have neither anything useful for OP nor anything civilized to say, you can see yourselves out.

 

[tussinman]

7600x offers the same performance as the 7700

Since AM5 will have a good upgrade potential/path i'd rather get the 7600x now and then use that money saved for a buffer later down the line to get a Zen 5 chip if it's worth it or needed.

The only problem I have with "oh the 2 extra cores will help especially 5 or 6 years down the road" is by the time you get to that point the IPC is so weak that your getting curbed stomped by modern lowend chips.

6 core i7 7800x/Ryzen 1600 (or heck even a 8/10 core 7900/1800x) are only like 6 years old and they get absolutely destroyed by an $88 intel quad core 12100F for example.

Either way TC should be fine, whatever CPU he buys is going to be drastically faster than whats in the consoles which will be the baseline for the next 4 or 5 years (not sure how long the current cycle is predicted to last)

 

[Macro Device]

the IPC is so weak that your getting curbed stomped by modern lowend chips.

That's true and can't be argued but you're forgetting the fact the lower end SKU will run out of steam one or maybe two years earlier than the higher end one. This means the OP will either pay less for the same upgrade or get a more interesting CPU later for the same money.

i5-2500K and i7-2600K were considered the same in gaming but later, in 2017/18, games proved for the fact i7-2600K is still capable of smooth gameplay whilst i5-2500K stutters all along. That's why 2500K users upgraded to 7th or 8th gen CPUs and 2600K ones bought 9th or even 10th gen CPUs, or their Ryzen competition.

Same happened to i5-8600K and i7-8700K five years later.

Same will happen to 7600X and 7700X in late 2020s. 7600X will be completely obsolete and 7700X will be just relatively slow.

 

[tussinman]

That's true and can't be argued but you're forgetting the fact the lower end SKU will run out of steam one or maybe two years earlier than the higher end one.

I didn't forget, I wasn't advocating for low end hardware. I was basically saying in five or six years you're going to the best case scenario still worse than an absolute low-end modern chip so worrying about whether or not you picked the six core or 8 core or 10 core is kind of pointless

i5-2500K and i7-2600K were considered the same in gaming but later, in 2017/18, games proved for the fact i7-2600K is still capable of smooth gameplay whilst i5-2500K stutters all along.

That wasn't a core issue though that was simply the i5s not having hyperthreading. He doesn't have to worry about that because the slowest chip he's looking at is 12 threads

7600X will be completely obsolete and 7700X will be just relatively slow.

Exactly. That's my point you're going to be absolutely slow regardless.

Not only that he's buying into a socket (AM5) that wont be platform locked so there's really no point in trying to game the system right off the bat, there's going to be lots of better chips to choose from in the future if he actually needs the extra boost (not only that these newer chips won't force him to change his platform or won't affect his longevity, he still using all of the same parts he's just swapping the CPU which at that point it will probably be time to repaste it anyways so you're already going to be down there)

 

[nomdeplume]

I'd wait for Intel 14th gen which is expected second half of 2023.

Or at least solid announcements of specs on processors and mobo.

As always, play it safer to your wallet than to what might be... all but unattainable though better.

 

[BaRRoS]

Thanks guys for all the replys, I will try to address them all.
But before that, since some of you pointed out that I upgrade every ten years, I used to upgrade every 2 years on average (sometimes 1 year, sometimes 3 years). This is the longest that I maintainded the same build. In the last seven years I got married, got a child, life changed, priorities changed... upgrade was postponed up until now
Having said that, I don't know if I'll upgrade in one year, in ten years, if I'll lose all interest in the PC scene and buy a PS/XBox... My choices are not only based on the lifespan that the PC will have, I just want to build a new system that allows me to play some recent games (without the CPU bottleneck that I have now).

Regarding the CPU, the choice of the 7600(X) is because it's the cheapest of AM5, 7700 is €100 pricier. As said before, I just want something better than I have right now. I can always change it later for a better one (even second hand) if it starts to lag.

low quality as in low features? low quality of parts? low reliability? Asus boards for the most are reliable (as are most mobos from the big four)

Well, things like heatsinks in the Prime vs the TUF

Mobo-wise you should go for something like Gigabyte B650M Gaming X AX or MSI MAG B650M Mortar Wi-Fi, they look solid enough for any single digit core CPU.

Yes I've also looked at those, but they are between €30 to €50 pricier than the ASUS

Id suggest a AsRock motherboard

Any specific model?

I'd wait for Intel 14th gen which is expected second half of 2023.

I really want to go AMD this time. Also, I would have to change the cooler or at least order and wait for the adaptor.

Bear in mind nvme has been known to disable pcie lanes or sata ports.

Didn't know about that. Is this a thing of AMD chipset or MB vendor specific implementations? Any articles/reviews to check on this?

 

[eidairaman1]

Since AM5 will have a good upgrade potential/path i'd rather get the 7600x now and then use that money saved for a buffer later down the line to get a Zen 5 chip if it's worth it or needed.

The only problem I have with "oh the 2 extra cores will help especially 5 or 6 years down the road" is by the time you get to that point the IPC is so weak that your getting curbed stomped by modern lowend chips.

6 core i7 7800x/Ryzen 1600 (or heck even a 8/10 core 7900/1800x) are only like 6 years old and they get absolutely destroyed by an $88 intel quad core 12100F for example.

Either way TC should be fine, whatever CPU he buys is going to be drastically faster than whats in the consoles which will be the baseline for the next 4 or 5 years (not sure how long the current cycle is predicted to last)

How much difference is there in price between the 7600 and 7600X?

Thanks guys for all the replys, I will try to address them all.
But before that, since some of you pointed out that I upgrade every ten years, I used to upgrade every 2 years on average (sometimes 1 year, sometimes 3 years). This is the longest that I maintainded the same build. In the last seven years I got married, got a child, life changed, priorities changed... upgrade was postponed up until now
Having said that, I don't know if I'll upgrade in one year, in ten years, if I'll lose all interest in the PC scene and buy a PS/XBox... My choices are not only based on the lifespan that the PC will have, I just want to build a new system that allows me to play some recent games (without the CPU bottleneck that I have now).

Regarding the CPU, the choice of the 7600(X) is because it's the cheapest of AM5, 7700 is €100 pricier. As said before, I just want something better than I have right now. I can always change it later for a better one (even second hand) if it starts to lag.


Well, things like heatsinks in the Prime vs the TUF


Yes I've also looked at those, but they are between €30 to €50 pricier than the ASUS


Any specific model?


I really want to go AMD this time. Also, I would have to change the cooler or at least order and wait for the adaptor.


Didn't know about that. Is this a thing of AMD chipset or MB vendor specific implementations? Any articles/reviews to check on this?

Its motherboard vendor specific, just before you purchase any motherboard, go to the makers site and look up the manual for specific board and anything relating to m.2 and your pcie slots and sata ports.