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USB Flash sticks - the truth please

QcRMoD said:
But geeez it's not Moby Dick it's a 20 lines OP. Can't anybody read it properly and answer back with something that makes sense is my point. Can we discuss the fact that this whole market is a shamble of specs vs. what you're likely to encounter for hardware?
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The problem is that you think I didn't understand. I saw right through it. It's just not that big a problem unless you're copying massive files very frequently. Even if you use a drive for a portable OS install, a good quality 5Gbps drive will be more than enough. And if you're limiting yourself to USB-A then the max you can and will get is 20Gbps. However 10 or 5 is a perfectly useful amount of bandwidth. The state of the market is not something we can change right here, right now, so bemoaning it is a bit pointless.

This might not be the answer you were looking for but that's reality for you. As was suggested before, find a good quality drive that meets your needs, use it the way you need, enjoy.
 
TLDR. You are really overthinking and overcomplicating things for yourself.
1) If you want the best performance - just get an NVME enclosure
2) If you want the best reliability an no overheating - just get an M.2 SATA enclosure.
3) If you want the best price/GB - get a flash drive.
4) Regardless of which path you pick, either thumbdrive or SSD enclosure - you are still likely to be capped at gen1 speeds for everything except higher-end NVME enclosures. I only have one that can do over 1GB/s stable continuous, and I only use it for SSD duplication cause it gets pretty warm during normal operations (even on standby). For my daily use I have an M.2 SATA enclosure which I bought awhile ago for $5 or so with some random 256GB M.2 SATA SSD I found in the drawer, and it's wa-a-a-ay more than enough. It's my main diag. drive, which has all of my frequently used ISOs (windows installs, Linux live ISOs, memtest, etc.) and all of the software, work docs and tons of schematics. It's cheap, and has a much better random RW than any of my flash drives, fits in a lighter pocket in my jeans, and can be upgraded if needed.

That's it. There is no more depth to the discussion. Flash drives are made from the lowest tier of NAND and built at cost, so no matter how you try to justify it in 2024(almost 2025) - the only two reasons you should get a flash drive over an equally portable SSD is the price and form-factor.
 
I would like to add few cents.

There is no point in looking in transfer speeds, because it is low priority process, no timing, basically it deviates by 200% just because how modern hardware approach OS tick. You may create a device and test activity of your desired file operation from start A to B.

Seconds it is USB3. It has in built algorithm of maintain signal integrity, budget as mentioned in design datasheet, signal up to 5GHz + spread spectrum. Basically you cannot get same negotiation while plugging in the USB drive two times, it will differ due to connector impendence and temperature change. If you dare to use the front panel USB slots, then, there is no hope, you add up the end device power consumption adding changes and being prone to EMI caused by other devices in your case, mostly wireless devices.

In general those devices can perform differently on different test setups due to various reasons.

My short points.

1. Don't use Sandisk anymore, for anything, my warm suggestion. I can recommend Samsung bars, cheap, it is a Silicon Motion USB to Sata controller there with TRIM support, durable, accidentally washed mine few times, still work. Durability may be the main point getting them, nothing else.

2. As other mentioned, there is no point to not to do external enclosure to nvme, even cost, performance unbeatable. I can recommend RTL9210B based ones, those take both nvme and msata, cheap, okay only 10Gbps, but that makes it less hot, a lot of FW fixes as many makers use it thus you can have hope for compatibility fixes, you can cross flash those without stress.
 
QcRMoD said:
Hi, need to pick your brains on something that's not quite clear wherever I am looking at.

Ok let's suppose I understand the theory:

USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 = 20 Gbps = RED ports - 2500 MB/s usually advertised as 2100 MB/s max speed
USB 3.2 Gen 2 = 10 Gbps = TURQUOISE (Green/Light blue depending on POVs in general discussions) ports - 1250 MB/s usually advertised as 1050 MB/s max speed
USB 3.2 Gen 1 = 5 Gbps = BLUE ports - 625 MB/s usually advertised well below 500 MB/s max speed
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This is incorrect.
There are no 20 Gbps ports that aren't USB Type-C.
As for the colour, it no longer follows any specific logic and the motherboard makers use whatever they fancy, but if it's a coloured port, that isn't white or black, it's faster than USB 2.0 in most instances.
QcRMoD said:
As advertised is usually below theoretical speeds I get that and why, and in the case of Gen 1 the hit is felt most - advertising usually around 400 MB/s is somehow the best you tend to see.
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Noting theoretical about it, but there are overheads, which means that you'll lose some speed, same as with Ethernet, PCIe and loads of other protocols.
QcRMoD said:
Let's suppose I also understand the practice: you get 1/2 RED ports on most Motherboards, and USB-C ports can SOMETIMES be only 10 Gbps especially on laptops or what the interface is from an external drive/USB flash drive, and the TURQUOISE ports are about nonexistent, so the most basic port is the BLUE one at 5 Gbps. It's the one you can count on across the largest span of hardware except high end Windows/Mac etc.
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As above, there are no 20 Gbps USB Type-A ports and you've read some bad info about the port colours.
QcRMoD said:
However, most external devices at relatively acceptable prices are Gen 2 = 10 Gbps speed. If USB-C you're alright for that speed, what you need to beware of is a USB-C external device advertising for 20 Gbps relative speed and a host computer/phone with a USB-C port that only does 10 Gbps.

But let's scratch USB-C because I don't want to buy into an external device using ONLY it. I have fairly 0 use or encounters of high end/Mac stuff using only it, and too sparse/unpractical/nonexistent access to them on most devices I DO OWN/ENCOUNTER.

I AM SOLELY INTERESTED IN USB Type A EXTERNAL STORAGE DEVICES - either flash sticks or external drives. I am even trying to avoid dual USB sticks because the solution often times is not ideal for capping/protection/durability/portability. I could do with an external SSD drive with both cables, but I am looking into a simple, lower footprint regular USB A stick (not especially Mini though because the speeds are often time lower for the asking price).
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As above, there are no 20 Gbps USB Type-A ports.
QcRMoD said:
So we're looking into Type A connector, and the fact that a vast amount of external storage devices are proposing it WITH the Gen 2 speeds, whereas a real Gen 2 Type A port sparsely exist in the real world. Most are Gen 1 if not sparsely Gen 2x2 (RED). In the real world, as already pointed out, the type A TURQUOISE port is about nonexistent/CANNOT BE RELIED ON. The BLUE Gen 1 can. And between now and whenever it'll be outdated entirely, I don't expect any surge of the TURQUOISE type A one. On the contrary, most stuff is relying on USB-C ports to either do it or be the full 20 Gbps sort.
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As above, there are no 20 Gbps USB Type-A ports.
QcRMoD said:
I do not want you to exhort me towards USB-C ports. I am asking about USB-A ports, the most available of them.

Let's hope, notwithstanding repetition, that this was clear enough.

Now... I do own Sandisk Extreme (non-PRO) USB flash drives since about 7 years. They were easily crushing the competition back then, and even nowadays IF WE LOOK AT USB 3.2 Gen 1 devices they are difficult to beat. I get 240 MB/s reads and 110 MB/s writes in Peak Performance (CDM), and just for fun I transfered a full 2GB movie out and back onto the drive (R/W) and got 230 MB/s to 100 MB/s. Which is about equal to Real Wold Performance in CDM (slightly faster reads to slightly slower writes I got 220 MB/s and 105 MB/s in CDM Real World). That was on a laptop on battery - and YES, typical Gen 1 ports. And this was with that drive almost full (26/29GB available) used very often since 7 years. I see a lot of USB flash drives in Gen 1 that can barely manage 180 MB/s Peak reads nowadays. By no way my old flash drives are slouch.

But they're low capacity - I have a 32GB and a 64GB. Also, they're far from maxing out their interface, as good (and still good) as they are. Finally, they're piss poor with RND4K stuff. In Q1T1 I get around 8/6 MB/s for Read/Write respectively.
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You need to read up on how NAND flash works and how the controller in a pocket friendly USB flash drive differs from an SSD controller. There are a few USB flash drives that uses SSD controllers, but they tend to get crazy hot.
QcRMoD said:
QUESTION IS: what can I expect of using any of most USB-A Gen 2 external devices out there into a Gen 1 port?
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It depends on the components the drive is made up by.
QcRMoD said:
Sadly reviews tend to use hardware to max out the performance - and DO NOT offer a comparative if into a Gen 1 port.

One of the rare reviews I've seen (Wired Cutter - Mushkin OWC) did mention it and complained that it went from around 900 MB/s to barely more than 400 MB/s on Gen 1 ports. Which if you ask me is nothing to complain about since it seemed to max out the real available bandwidth you'd ever expect to get on Gen 1. However it is also just about half the real performance on a proper USB Gen 2(x2) port.
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As above, there are no 20 Gbps USB Type-A ports.
 
My motto with USB is, just stick it on and hopefully it fits.
 
I mostly stopped using USB sticks for OS installs and the like.

16 GB Intel Optane M.2 drives are sold for $5, so I loaded up on them. I use them with a USB->M.2 case. Much smoother and indefinitely faster than a regular stick.
 
unwind-protect said:
I mostly stopped using USB sticks for OS installs and the like.

16 GB Intel Optane M.2 drives are sold for $5, so I loaded up on them. I use them with a USB->M.2 case. Much smoother and indefinitely faster than a regular stick.
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I went the other route, I bought some 128Gb USB 3 sticks and partitioned them with Windows install/repair then the last part is userdata backup, most people have less than 100Gb of data so it all fits and read/write read speeds in the 100+ setup is still quick and I can hand them the USB with their data instead allowing anything to touch my machine after theirs in case of an unknown infection on their hardware.
 
unwind-protect said:
I mostly stopped using USB sticks for OS installs and the like.

16 GB Intel Optane M.2 drives are sold for $5, so I loaded up on them. I use them with a USB->M.2 case. Much smoother and indefinitely faster than a regular stick.
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Can you really install the OS from a m.2 case. Is there any special requirements or drivers required.
 
A&P211 said:
Can you really install the OS from a m.2 case. Is there any special requirements or drivers required.
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Considering they have a SATA or PCIe to USB bridge chip inside them, why wouldn't you be able to?
They show up as a USB mass storage device.
 
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