WB actually did it...They closed Monolith. :(

[alwayssts]

I'm pretty bummed out about it, given the AI (scripting) of F.E.A.R and SoM (nemesis system) hold a special place in my geek heart.
F.E.A.R may have been *the* game that solidified high-end PC gaming (for me), and 'Shadow' was well-balanced imo; I used to test a lot of limitations of GPUs different ways with it.
I'm not going to pretend that I was extremely excited for WW, but do think that group had a special, unique gift, and would have preferred they were able to finish that project and perhaps create/revisit many more.

A true loss, if even in identity. They leave a legacy. Hopefully it's true that many will find a home at Avalanche; I have no doubt their talents will enrich whatever that team further creates.

I suppose that it goes to show, especially in the world of beloved game studios...No One Lives Forever.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-02-25/warner-bros-shuts-three-video-game-studios-in-restructuring

 

[eidairaman1]

When Giant Corps destroy studios

 

[alwayssts]

Somebody out there printing "If you're going to close beloved studios...You could at least Warn A Brother" t-shirts...Probably.

 

[Apocalypsee]

It's sad really, I really enjoyed NoLF2 and still do. I'm one of the people who played the 2nd installment before the first lol, like play KoTOR2 before KoTOR. First F.E.A.R is groundbreaking to me as well, love the sotry and gameplay. I scared first time playing it that I need to play background music to distract me from jumpscare

 

[ShiBDiB]

That nemesis patent seems... flimsy... how do you patent a concept that has existed for millenia

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Wow, Monolith is one of the few names still around from ye olde days of pre-2000's gaming.

What a storied studio: Blood, Shogo, NOLF, AVP2 (The one really good AVP game...), Fear series, Condemned, Shadow Series...

WTF why wont someone put a bullet in Treyarch or Infinity Ward and put those studios out of their misery instead?!

 

[Shihab]

WTF why wont someone put a bullet in Treyarch or Infinity Ward and put those studios out of their misery instead?!

Misery?
Black Ops 6 was 2024's best seller.

In this corporate-run world, you ain't miserable if you're not mi$$$erable.

 

[Onasi]

And that’s the lesson that keeps being ignored by studios - don’t enter deals with the devil. Be like Larian and keep trucking through thick and thin, shit and success, but always keep yourself independent.

 

[alwayssts]

That nemesis patent seems... flimsy... how do you patent a concept that has existed for millenia

It's a conversation that's been had by many that have watched and/or discussed the industry, and surely the conversation will happen again.
On one hand, I too think it's a strange thing to (allow a) patent, but on the other hand I can also understand it. I simply don't want that work/system to languish if it could be used elsewhere, and/or improved.
They clearly have a knack for writing if/thens; systems with many possible variables that then lead to other variables dictated by condition. It's pretty cool! I could only imagine how far that could go.
Especially with today's technology; what we commonly refer to as 'AI". It's a shame we won't see this in a further installment of their original properties, but perhaps there's hope for something else (Harry Potter?)

Wow, Monolith is one of the few names still around from ye olde days of pre-2000's gaming.

What a storied studio: Blood, Shogo, NOLF, AVP2 (The one really good AVP game...), Fear series, Condemned, Shadow Series...

WTF why wont someone put a bullet in Treyarch or Infinity Ward and put those studios out of their misery instead?!

I loved Blood. I didn't know the quoting-movies-of-it-all at the time, so I thought it was rad. I'd put it right up there with the Rise of the Triad demo disc as special to me from that era.
Also many others in their library. They were unique, if nothing else, and almost always had some kind of interesting game-play system in their titles. If nothing else, many classics and note-worthy examples of genre.
Oftentimes when others failed and/or were more generic. They could have been, but weren't.

I don't wish anyone to lose their job(s), but I get what you're saying about formulaic entries. That's not their fault, really. Just, as Monolith kinda became, part of surviving; becoming one with the machine.
I like to think, at least, they did it 'their way'. At least as long as they could. I think SoM is representative of that, and perhaps WW would have been as well. Hopefully they bring some of that sauce to Harry Potter.

And that’s the lesson that keeps being ignored by studios - don’t enter deals with the devil. Be like Larian and keep trucking through thick and thin, shit and success, but always keep yourself independent.

I really don't think it's that simple (in most cases). Sometimes it's for the fat stack of cash, but other times it is for a steady paycheck for all employees and not needing to find another contract...until it isn't.

That's why it's sad. Either way, honestly.

I'm just glad the people still have jobs. The fact they are no longer working on something unique is not a surprise (given WB), but as I've said...the people may make w/e they work on their own. At least, I hope.

I'll simply miss the wholly different flavor of things created more (even if not their chosen property) by their sole discretion.
I think they knew how to put together a very well-rounded package, always w/ *something* new, and hope that doesn't get lost as they transition into new roles. I hope they still have input, rather than just *jobs*.

 

[Onasi]

Oh, also, I find it funny that Suicide Squad absolutely bombed, was literally an “everybody disliked that” moment, but Rocksteady is apparently a-OK and keeps on trucking, while Monolith, a studio with a storied history that, even under WB, didn’t produce any outright flops, gets the axe. Corpo logic at its finest. This is “Hi-Fi Rush was a success, but we’re shutting down Tango anyway” all over again.

I really don't think it's that simple (in most cases). Sometimes it's for the fat stack of cash, but other times it is for a steady paycheck for all employees and not needing to find another contract...until it isn't.

It is that simple. Swen was taking loans and spending his own money to keep Larian afloat in the leaner years. Anything and everything to remain independent. He wasn’t doing it because he was stupid or naive. He was doing it because the writing is on the wall - whatever good offer you get, however “beneficial” being acquired is, in the end, losing mastery over your destiny just hurts too much. Sure, there’s always a possibility of failure with this approach, but, as we see time and time again, being absorbed into being a cushy corpo subsidiary is absolutely not a guarantee of you NOT bombing the fuck out. Might as well roll the dice.

 

[alwayssts]

Oh, also, I find it funny that Suicide Squad absolutely bombed, was literally an “everybody disliked that” moment, but Rocksteady is apparently a-OK and keeps on trucking, while Monolith, a studio with a storied history that, even under WB, didn’t produce any outright flops, gets the axe. Corpo logic at its finest. This is “Hi-Fi Rush was a success, but we’re shutting down Tango anyway” all over again.

Rocksteady's penance is they will be making solo Batman games for the rest of their existence, don't worry. You'll get your Batman; never anything else ever again.

FWIW, SSKTJL wasn't *that* bad. It wasn't great either. I'm not defending it with a gd shield or anything, only that I hate how 'gamers' reacted. By that I mean a couple influencers, and vicariously their followers.
Point is it didn't deserve the outright hatred people had towards it; very misplaced anger of judging not getting a Batman game versus the actual game they made (especially before it was even released).
I was very disappointed in well...loud people on the internet literally ostracizing it, frankly...for how that sitch turned out. Not just RS. Yeah, we're probably not ever going to agree on that, and that's ok.
I wrote a letter to RS thanking them for how they honored KC (even through that whole unfortunate circumstance and all the shit they got), so I've made my peace with it.
Just, know, some people need to find better things to do than shit on things that are not for them. I don't care if you need to put out a new video that day on your YT channel; it actually hurts people.

Tango thing was absurd, on that we agree. That is why one company should not own all these studios. By one company, I mean MS.

It is that simple. Swen was taking loans and spending his own money to keep Larian afloat in the leaner years. Anything and everything to remain independent. He wasn’t doing it because he was stupid or naive. He was doing it because the writing is on the wall - whatever good offer you get, however “beneficial” being acquired is, in the end, losing mastery over your destiny just hurts too much. Sure, there’s always a possibility of failure with this approach, but, as we see time and time again, being absorbed into being a cushy corpo subsidiary is absolutely not a guarantee of you NOT bombing the fuck out. Might as well roll the dice.

I'm not disagreeing, but you have to understand that is likely incredibly stressful, and I can't blame everyone that doesn't take that path.

Dude, I'm a gigantic fan of (many of the people that do and have worked at) Bungie. How do you think I feel right now? I get it.

 

[Onasi]

Dude, I'm a gigantic fan of (many of the people that do and have worked at) Bungie. How do you think I feel right now? I get it.

My condolences, I wasn’t familiar with your game. That level of abject masochism is something that I can only respect, since being a Bungie fan in the last, say, half a decade is literally like smashing your balls with a rock.

 

[Outback Bronze]

AVP2 (The one really good AVP game...

Yeah, that game kicked arse. It was one of the main reasons I ditched the consoles and went PC. Here we are

 

[alwayssts]

My condolences, I wasn’t familiar with your game. That level of abject masochism is something that I can only respect, since being a Bungie fan in the last, say, half a decade is literally like smashing your balls with a rock.

Read what I said, and then read what you said again. Nevermind, it's okay. I understand we look at things differently.

Point is, AVP2 was cool.

Yeah, that game kicked arse. It was one of the main reasons I ditched the consoles and went PC. Here we are

Right?!

 

[Vayra86]

Its sad... but at the same time... these developers and the talent ain't gone.

I'm pretty convinced at this point there are no one-man armies in gaming, and those that do exist, are very smart not just about what they're making, but also the scope of the games they're making. They make small games. But the real games that take a real team to make... take a real team to make. Its often a one-time-event. Perhaps the same team can repeat the success once more. But far more often, they do not. Look at Crate Entertainment. Clearly, that's a tight knit team of devs that know each other. Still though... are they gonna do another Grim Dawn? Or will it feel like yet another ARPG? I think GD2 has a high bar to clear. Farthest Frontier, while certainly not bad and not quite finished... does not have the same draw to it, and looks a bit dated.

Good ideas combined with a great team, decent budget and artistic freedom, make for legendary games. Those stars really do need to line up. Its not a clear cut formula, more like a rare cosmic event. Even studios that have truly assimilated their game's concepts and formula in their way of working (like, say From Software, the games are iconic, have a signature) will eventually start getting old to us and that same talent is now producing generic stuff we've seen before.

 

[BoggledBeagle]

When Giant Corps destroy studios

When an owner cares about his company, he does not sell it.

When he loses interest and wants just money, he sells it and the company most likely dies, sooner or later.

So if somebody dislikes the company dying, question the original owner.

 

[Vayra86]

When an owner cares about his company, he does not sell it.

When he loses interest and wants just money, he sells it and the company most likely dies, sooner or later.

So if somebody dislikes the company dying, question the original owner.

This relates 100% to the company I work for. Every year on the annual meeting we get told 'We are not for sale, and will never be for sale'.

Its mighty inspiring.

Then I look at Ubisoft. Yves Guillemot... I don't think I could have worked there for very long, with a CEO proclaiming straight up lies every year. Bethesda... same thing... Meta? Uber? I mean you really have to lack some brain connections to be happy to work there for anything other than the money.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Misery?
Black Ops 6 was 2024's best seller.

In this corporate-run world, you ain't miserable if you're not mi$$$erable.

- Treyarch "We used to have artistic vision and drive once, now we're just a baby factory for BLOPS games" is definitely begging to be put out of their misery.

Activision will keep them on artificial life support right until the moment a BLOPS game misses sales targets, then the plug gets pulled and they get to drift off happily to dreamland.

It's like Bungie and Destiny.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

This relates 100% to the company I work for. Every year on the annual meeting we get told 'We are not for sale, and will never be for sale'.

Its mighty inspiring.

Then I look at Ubisoft. Yves Guillemot... I don't think I could have worked there for very long, with a CEO proclaiming straight up lies every year. Bethesda... same thing... Meta? Uber? I mean you really have to lack some brain connections to be happy to work there for anything other than the money.

When we started to believe that managers could be taught their roles, devoid of an industry, and without any respect for continuing to exist we decided that things were never going to be the same.

While I don't agree in the slightest that people selling their company should be blamed...because the failure to groom someone worth running the company is how I view this, it's also not like anybody who buys a company is really beholden to doing anything for the people that remain. I've seen plenty of companies fail because the owner dies and the wife just cannot keep it going (not really the other way around...but that's anecdote). I've seen plenty of companies bought up but continuing to work because they were bought as stable bases that were eventually expanded upon. What I don't see is the same level of commitment to having a stable business that my parent's generation always had.

That's capitalism though. It's also why I know that I can generally only make money places that don't treat me human, or be human and struggle with payment. Monolith has been making money for WB too long to still have a soul...so I view it as a mercy they are killed. Lord knows their reputation was already tainted with the whole loot box orc garbage...so it's better to let them die and remember the good times.

 

[Vayra86]

I've seen plenty of companies bought up but continuing to work because they were bought as stable bases that were eventually expanded upon. What I don't see is the same level of commitment to having a stable business that my parent's generation always had.

That's capitalism though. It's also why I know that I can generally only make money places that don't treat me human, or be human and struggle with payment.

Yeah, also all true. But its about that level of commitment I was mostly referring to. Its ingrained in some people and some companies, and you need a sledgehammer to get it out (and would probably still fail at it). I guess its the same separation you see in humans themselves. There are places where you can be a 'complete' human as long as you're also good at what you do... and still make a good living.

In fact I am convinced that should be the baseline for anyone working at any company. If we talk about culture. If you select your jobs on those criteria, sure, changes are you'll never find it, and still, I think we should aspire to it. Because in the larger scheme of things that's how we improve. By being the improvement, embodying it.

Capitalism indeed. Or, more precisely, the anglo-saxon model of corporate governance. I wouldn't mind killing it with fire. It has outlived its usefulness imho. We could use far more stubborn assholes to realize that... or at the very least, make sweeping changes to it.

 

[Frick]

It is that simple. Swen was taking loans and spending his own money to keep Larian afloat in the leaner years. Anything and everything to remain independent. He wasn’t doing it because he was stupid or naive. He was doing it because the writing is on the wall - whatever good offer you get, however “beneficial” being acquired is, in the end, losing mastery over your destiny just hurts too much. Sure, there’s always a possibility of failure with this approach, but, as we see time and time again, being absorbed into being a cushy corpo subsidiary is absolutely not a guarantee of you NOT bombing the fuck out. Might as well roll the dice.

You can only take that so far though. Heck, even Tim Schafer gave up on that dream. Do also note that Larian at one point was just three people. Not giving up on your dream or selling out and shit is fine until you have to fire good people. And now Larian is 400 people. How will they handle that and how far can they go before the firings start again? Do you sell our yourself or your employees?

 

[Onasi]

@Frick
I don’t have that answer. I don’t think anyone does at this point. What we know for sure with the last couple of years and repeated layoffs and studio shutterings is that being absorbed into a larger corporate entity isn’t a safe play either. So it really might be a choice between firing people yourself if your dream projects go south or those people still getting fired because whatever AAA slop you were making for the EAs and MSs of the world didn’t produce financial results that were “expected” or “projected” by the boys in Finance. So… yeah, it’s a shit situation all around, I agree, but the gaming industry historically was, actually, a fairly bad place to work in. Part of the reason good game and engine coders are pure gold these days is that, well, talented programmers can earn more in other industries where they also will have just overall better environment. So pound for pound my preference from the artistic standpoint is for studios to try and be as independent as they can be as long as they can. That might end poorly at a certain point, but the alternative isn’t much better, if at all. The whole industry is deeply screwed is what I am saying.
I guess the only exception to the overall rule is Valve, but they are such a unique entity in such an unprecedented position that we can’t really use them as a comparison for anything.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Yeah, also all true. But its about that level of commitment I was mostly referring to. Its ingrained in some people and some companies, and you need a sledgehammer to get it out (and would probably still fail at it). I guess its the same separation you see in humans themselves. There are places where you can be a 'complete' human as long as you're also good at what you do... and still make a good living.

In fact I am convinced that should be the baseline for anyone working at any company. If we talk about culture. If you select your jobs on those criteria, sure, changes are you'll never find it, and still, I think we should aspire to it. Because in the larger scheme of things that's how we improve. By being the improvement, embodying it.

Capitalism indeed. Or, more precisely, the anglo-saxon model of corporate governance. I wouldn't mind killing it with fire. It has outlived its usefulness imho. We could use far more stubborn assholes to realize that... or at the very least, make sweeping changes to it.

Capitalism is not bad, and I don't want to make that point. The point I was trying to make is that there is no free lunch in capitalism. You get something equivalent of what you are willing to give.

Getting back to the discussion here, WB gave Monolith's management team a huge pile of money. It gave their staff a continuing employment, doing what they said and how they said it. Their business model is to release regularly and capitalize everything...which basically requires 1-2 releases to go from "worth the price" to "the cost is too high." That's not because WB is bad, or the old owners are bad. It's largely because the management team from WB was run by people whose goal was maximum output and not sustainable but lesser output.

Lest we forget, we live in a world with Devolver Digital. They are a capitalist company, and their management has demonstrably prioritized making less money, that is sustainable and will grow their footprint. I respect WB for its absolute commitment to shareholders. What I don't think is that those shareholders understand that their huge investment returns are on a deadline that is burning up the engine that drives their company...and I think that killing Monolith is fine because they are not exactly what they once were. That all said, there have been plenty of people who left Monolith, so it's not like killing a publisher name will do anything. All it means is the people actually developing can get a new name...or join the COD mines if they want consistency, above being special.

 

[TechBuyingHavoc]

Its sad... but at the same time... these developers and the talent ain't gone.

I'm pretty convinced at this point there are no one-man armies in gaming, and those that do exist, are very smart not just about what they're making, but also the scope of the games they're making. They make small games. But the real games that take a real team to make... take a real team to make. Its often a one-time-event. Perhaps the same team can repeat the success once more. But far more often, they do not. Look at Crate Entertainment. Clearly, that's a tight knit team of devs that know each other. Still though... are they gonna do another Grim Dawn? Or will it feel like yet another ARPG? I think GD2 has a high bar to clear. Farthest Frontier, while certainly not bad and not quite finished... does not have the same draw to it, and looks a bit dated.

Good ideas combined with a great team, decent budget and artistic freedom, make for legendary games. Those stars really do need to line up. Its not a clear cut formula, more like a rare cosmic event. Even studios that have truly assimilated their game's concepts and formula in their way of working (like, say From Software, the games are iconic, have a signature) will eventually start getting old to us and that same talent is now producing generic stuff we've seen before.

It's even worse than all of that (which I agree with). Once a studio or team does find that winning formula of creative fun games with great gameplay loops and interesting new mechanics and rock-solid execution, the very act of achieving success plants the seeds of future failure. You can delay the rot with a strong creative vision, patience, a willingness to take risks, and discipline in how you work but the rot will happen, sooner or later.

The scope starts to creep up, if the people liked X hours of this game, how about improving the value proposition and offering 1.25 * X hours in the sequel. More people get hired with the better funding because why not have better graphics in the sequel, we had 1080p at 60 FPS, lets aim for 1440p at 120 FPS next time. Oh, our shadows were not so good, lets update with better baked lighting (or even RT) next time.

You add each spoon of good intentions to the scales and it even works for a long while if you are lucky. Your sequel is better, bigger, more fun, it fixes all the low-hanging fruit and even wins awards for new innovations that your studio came up with.

And then one day, on your next title which was going to follow this golden formula, that was going to harness the roaring creative engine that is your studio, the system fails. It could be suddenly, with a bad game concept that the customers just bounced off. Maybe your technical progress was too fast and now people can't afford the hardware that is needed to play your games. Maybe the technical progress was too slow and now your game just looks sad and old. Maybe the marketing was not good enough to sustain the expected volumes that you need for your studio to be profitable. Maybe the competition finally caught up with you and now your product is just that, product in a bin full of product. Maybe your DLC policy is a little too hostile or your prices have crept up too high. Maybe those magical team members have slowly left your company and the replacements are not up to snuff. Or they have finally lost their creative drive and are just phoning it in and now the customers are catching on to your games getting worse and worse.

Yikes, what a hard industry to be in. I respect and pity those who make games for a living.

 

[phanbuey]

It's even worse than all of that (which I agree with). Once a studio or team does find that winning formula of creative fun games with great gameplay loops and interesting new mechanics and rock-solid execution, the very act of achieving success plants the seeds of future failure. You can delay the rot with a strong creative vision, patience, a willingness to take risks, and discipline in how you work but the rot will happen, sooner or later.

The scope starts to creep up, if the people liked X hours of this game, how about improving the value proposition and offering 1.25 * X hours in the sequel. More people get hired with the better funding because why not have better graphics in the sequel, we had 1080p at 60 FPS, lets aim for 1440p at 120 FPS next time. Oh, our shadows were not so good, lets update with better baked lighting (or even RT) next time.

You add each spoon of good intentions to the scales and it even works for a long while if you are lucky. Your sequel is better, bigger, more fun, it fixes all the low-hanging fruit and even wins awards for new innovations that your studio came up with.

And then one day, on your next title which was going to follow this golden formula, that was going to harness the roaring creative engine that is your studio, the system fails. It could be suddenly, with a bad game concept that the customers just bounced off. Maybe your technical progress was too fast and now people can't afford the hardware that is needed to play your games. Maybe the technical progress was too slow and now your game just looks sad and old. Maybe the marketing was not good enough to sustain the expected volumes that you need for your studio to be profitable. Maybe the competition finally caught up with you and now your product is just that, product in a bin full of product. Maybe your DLC policy is a little too hostile or your prices have crept up too high. Maybe those magical team members have slowly left your company and the replacements are not up to snuff. Or they have finally lost their creative drive and are just phoning it in and now the customers are catching on to your games getting worse and worse.

Yikes, what a hard industry to be in. I respect and pity those who make games for a living.

I think you can see the same thing as what's happening in Hollywood/Marvel Studios. The budgets and expectations get so big that you either have a blockbuster or a flop, with 0 in between...

If you can keep your scope tight you can actually make a great game, it's when you get the suits in the room where things start falling apart.

I kind of hope AI will help in this regard a bit.