Why are there so few OS,s for the PI5?

[Greenslade]

Why are there so few OS,s for PI5?
I would like to see Twister and Raspbian XP in particuler.Of course i can not use either on a PI5I am not interested in the usual suspects like Windows11 and Ubuntu.I don,t see any point in putting Windows 11 on a PI5.There were so many OS,s for PI4.

 

[ty_ger]

OMG, weesre doomed. What a combernation.

 

[Fokker]

What type of options are you looking for? Depending on your use for the Pi5, there's over a dozen different options to choose from.

 

[unwind-protect]

FreeBSD is a bit held up on the Pi 5. They changed things around quite a bit.

 

[P4-630]

Windows CE

 

[Greenslade]

Windows CE

This is for a Retro PC ,not for the new PI 5.

my best uk YouTuberI have just tried to burn Fenix in a pi imager it had errors

This my all time fav PI OS

It,s just a shame it want work on PI 5 There were so many systems like this one for the PI 4.This was another very good system which there were a lot on PI 4.
I don,t like the run of a the mill os, s, or anything that is run of the mill

This was a amazing OS.I would like to just use the PI5 , but if i can,t get systems like the above i will have to keep on using the PI 4

 

[PLAfiller]

Why are there so few OS,s for PI5?

I am guessing it needs time to mature. I mean 4 is preeety popular and the support for Octoprint sling shot it with 3D printers so...perhaps the 5th one is still getting traction.

 

[P4-630]

This is for a Retro PC ,not for the new PI 5.

Where in this thread did you mention that it is for a PC.....

Why are there so few OS,s for PI5?
I would like to see Twister and Raspbian XP in particuler.Of course i can not use either on a PI5I am not interested in the usual suspects like Windows11 and Ubuntu.I don,t see any point in putting Windows 11 on a PI5.There were so many OS,s for PI4.

 

[Greenslade]

Where in this thread did you mention that it is for a PC.....

I didn,t i just said that was for a retro pc Windows ce that is

 

[Dr. Dro]

It's because the Raspberry Pi is a device intended for embedded computing. I think of it as an extra-fancy Arduino board, it's something you will likely be using as a microcontroller or as the "brains" of your IoT-powered project.

Sure, it's "fast enough" for a low cost desktop, especially after those conversion kits that add active cooling and all, but even a 2010 Mac mini with a Penryn C2D like the one I have is orders of magnitude faster and far more versatile as a small, low-cost computer than any Pi.

 

[londiste]

Sure, it's "fast enough" for a low cost desktop, especially after those conversion kits that add active cooling and all, but even a 2010 Mac mini with a Penryn C2D like the one I have is orders of magnitude faster and far more versatile as a small, low-cost computer than any Pi.

Out of curiosity - is this actually true in terms of CPU capability? The C2D 2010 Mac Mini came with is either 2.4GHz or 2.66GHz dual-core from a time long ago - Penryn was IIRC launched in 2007 - while Pi5 has quad-core Cortex A76 - still old, but from 2018 when ARM was already pretty OK - that should reach roughly the same clock speed with a bit of added cooling.

 

[Dr. Dro]

Out of curiosity - is this actually true in terms of CPU capability? The C2D 2010 Mac Mini came with is either 2.4GHz or 2.66GHz dual-core from a time long ago - Penryn was IIRC launched in 2007 - while Pi5 has quad-core Cortex A76 - still old, but from 2018 when ARM was already pretty OK - that should reach roughly the same clock speed with a bit of added cooling.

I'd say it's probably on the same level, all things considered. The memory bandwidth on them should be roughly similar (~21 GB/s theoretical, I think it's a little less on the BCM2712), P8600 has 3 MB of L2 vs. 2 MB L2 + 2 MB L3 on the Broadcom SoC (but this is very architecturally dependent), VideoCore VII probably doesn't quite catch up to the GT 220 in performance and certainly doesn't in driver support, although it is certainly aided by the presence of hardware decoders that allow 4K video playback otherwise impossible on the vintage Nvidia GPU. Processing core itself is a little tricky, both ARM and x86 have their strengths, I'd guess it'd be down to the SIMD throughput, since they're completely different ISA CPUs. Both have Gen 2 PCIe support, so... really tricky.

If anything, I'd probably place my bet on a desktop-grade E8600 (with full 6MB L2) still being all-around better? More or less educated guesses, couldn't find any benchmarks or anything that seemed even remotely relevant. Benchmarks wouldn't do this justice anyway as they're in completely different weight classes and purposes anyhow, and software plays a part on how fast a system can be - hard to go lower footprint than Windows XP, which is an option here.

 

[Greenslade]

Out of curiosity - is this actually true in terms of CPU capability? The C2D 2010 Mac Mini came with is either 2.4GHz or 2.66GHz dual-core from a time long ago - Penryn was IIRC launched in 2007 - while Pi5 has quad-core Cortex A76 - still old, but from 2018 when ARM was already pretty OK - that should reach roughly the same clock speed with a bit of added cooling.

Why is the Pi 5 using quad-core Cortex A76 in 2024 when that comes from 2018

 

[Dr. Dro]

Why is the Pi 5 using quad-core Cortex A76 in 2024 when that comes from 2018

Because it is a very low cost device.

 

[Greenslade]

All i am interested in is trying different distros, not in to anything else.

 

[unwind-protect]

All i am interested in is trying different distros, not in to anything else.

For that you should use one of those x86 architecture things Endless choices.

 

[Greenslade]

For that you should use one of those x86 architecture things Endless choices.

I still have the PI4 which i have quite a few distros, but i was hopping to move over to the PI5 which i have, full time but i can,t of course.

 

[Tropick]

I'd say it's probably on the same level, all things considered. The memory bandwidth on them should be roughly similar (~21 GB/s theoretical, I think it's a little less on the BCM2712), P8600 has 3 MB of L2 vs. 2 MB L2 + 2 MB L3 on the Broadcom SoC (but this is very architecturally dependent), VideoCore VII probably doesn't quite catch up to the GT 220 in performance and certainly doesn't in driver support, although it is certainly aided by the presence of hardware decoders that allow 4K video playback otherwise impossible on the vintage Nvidia GPU. Processing core itself is a little tricky, both ARM and x86 have their strengths, I'd guess it'd be down to the SIMD throughput, since they're completely different ISA CPUs. Both have Gen 2 PCIe support, so... really tricky.

If anything, I'd probably place my bet on a desktop-grade E8600 (with full 6MB L2) still being all-around better? More or less educated guesses, couldn't find any benchmarks or anything that seemed even remotely relevant. Benchmarks wouldn't do this justice anyway as they're in completely different weight classes and purposes anyhow, and software plays a part on how fast a system can be - hard to go lower footprint than Windows XP, which is an option here.

A little late to the party but I recently received my Pi 5 8GB and have been putting it through it's paces heavily overclocked. Was able to score a 2582 on the CPU side of the Passmark benchmark which (in raw throughput) puts it in the same class as a Pentium G4400. Though as you said real world performance in day to day software varies greatly. I have all four cores running at 3GHz and the GPU at 1.15GHz. I was able to push the external PCIe lane to 3.0 speeds and connected an NVMe SSD and with PCIe storage it's incredibly responsive. Able to play the pocket edition of Minecraft at 1080p at around 45FPS with all of the graphical settings enabled. Currently using it as desktop PC supplement, when I want to get on and watch some Youtube or just browse the web but don't want to fire up the whole desktop. In the way I have it configured now I've seen it use anywhere up to 25W when both GPU and CPU are maxed and using NEON instructions during a benchmark. Actually uploaded this post from it

Link to the benchmark: https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V11/display.php?id=506594724394

 

[Dr. Dro]

A little late to the party but I recently received my Pi 5 8GB and have been putting it through it's paces heavily overclocked. Was able to score a 2582 on the CPU side of the Passmark benchmark which (in raw throughput) puts it in the same class as a Pentium G4400. Though as you said real world performance in day to day software varies greatly. I have all four cores running at 3GHz and the GPU at 1.15GHz. I was able to push the external PCIe lane to 3.0 speeds and connected an NVMe SSD and with PCIe storage it's incredibly responsive. Able to play the pocket edition of Minecraft at 1080p at around 45FPS with all of the graphical settings enabled. Currently using it as desktop PC supplement, when I want to get on and watch some Youtube or just browse the web but don't want to fire up the whole desktop. In the way I have it configured now I've seen it use anywhere up to 25W when both GPU and CPU are maxed and using NEON instructions during a benchmark. Actually uploaded this post from it

Link to the benchmark: https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V11/display.php?id=506594724394

View attachment 350479

Not bad! I think Minecraft runs so poorly because of the VideoCore VII, the CPU portion should be quite capable, especially with an optimized OS available for it. I guess it's just way too different in nature to be really comparable, idk how PassMark scores stack but I believe it if you're going from a pure compute performance standpoint.

 

[Greenslade]

Because it is a very low cost device.

It is not so low when you have to buy the accessories,
and then compare it to one of thouse Mini PC,S.

 

[Tropick]

Not bad! I think Minecraft runs so poorly because of the VideoCore VII, the CPU portion should be quite capable, especially with an optimized OS available for it. I guess it's just way too different in nature to be really comparable, idk how PassMark scores stack but I believe it if you're going from a pure compute performance standpoint.

It's hard to dig up any information or specifics on the GPU side of this chip. The A76 cores in here are of course very well documented by both ARM and the Pi foundation but the VideoCore VII is pretty much an enigma to me. I've heard some anecdotal "The drivers are the documentation" but I'm no software engineer and appreciate a good whitepaper. Jeff Geerling was able to get some really good die shots of the BCM2712 SoC where the A76 cores are very clearly visible however the GPU portion is sort of lost in the mix, I think it's over towards the left but again, hard to tell. It's definitely an interesting GPU, I can't imagine the architecture is akin to anything we're used to today. In fact I'm pretty sure it's fixed-pipeline. I'm able to get the thing stable at 1150MHz in the config.txt file which really boosts performance in a lot of graphically intensive applications. Raspberry Pi OS is finally shipping with official Vulkan 1.3 compliant V3D drivers and the Vulkan backend for Chromium works like a charm, which means GPU overclocking actually helps the responsiveness of the browser now. Getting into the guts of Chromium and setting some flags allows for most of the features to be hardware accelerated, and makes the browsing experience feel like like you're using a regular old x86 machine. Though there are some things like raw draw and DRDC that just refuse to work no matter how much I mess with it.

Overall, this is a very fun project machine. Keeping it cool at these clocks is challenging though, I have over_voltage_delta set to 50000 to keep everything stable, and pushing 25W through a die this tiny means it really heats up under heavy load. I have it on an Argon40 NEO 5 M.2 NVMe PCIe case with some custom Thermalright Odyssey padding on the VRM, core, memory, RP1, and Ethernet chips which helps a lot over the stock silicone kit but when the Passmark bench runs the ARM NEON instructions set of tests the temperatures absolutely skyrocket. Up to 75-80C, those SIMD instructions just burn the chip to a crisp.

 

[Greenslade]

A little late to the party but I recently received my Pi 5 8GB and have been putting it through it's paces heavily overclocked. Was able to score a 2582 on the CPU side of the Passmark benchmark which (in raw throughput) puts it in the same class as a Pentium G4400. Though as you said real world performance in day to day software varies greatly. I have all four cores running at 3GHz and the GPU at 1.15GHz. I was able to push the external PCIe lane to 3.0 speeds and connected an NVMe SSD and with PCIe storage it's incredibly responsive. Able to play the pocket edition of Minecraft at 1080p at around 45FPS with all of the graphical settings enabled. Currently using it as desktop PC supplement, when I want to get on and watch some Youtube or just browse the web but don't want to fire up the whole desktop. In the way I have it configured now I've seen it use anywhere up to 25W when both GPU and CPU are maxed and using NEON instructions during a benchmark. Actually uploaded this post from it

Link to the benchmark: https://www.passmark.com/baselines/V11/display.php?id=506594724394

View attachment 350479

All intresting stuff

 

[Dr. Dro]

It is not so low when you have to buy the accessories,
and then compare it to one of thouse Mini PC,S.

Oh yeah but the prices only stack up because you're purchasing a ton of these aftermarket, often hand-made accessories for it. The Pi board in itself is rather cheap. That's why it's a great base for a DIY computer project.

 

[Greenslade]

Oh yeah but the prices only stack up because you're purchasing a ton of these aftermarket, often hand-made accessories for it. The Pi board in itself is rather cheap. That's why it's a great base for a DIY computer project.

I get your point there ,thats proberly the best thing for it.Where as i have never done any of that stuff.I have not even done any of the games .Of course you could just get away with having a fan thats essential.And other basic essentials like SD card or SSD. You can do without a case.