Why does my PC shut down even though it's connected to a UPS?

[arni-gx]

I don't think this the same thing as the OP was addressing. The OP reported, "suddenly the PC turned off". That suggests the system suddenly crashed. Never good and certainly not the correct behavior when connected to a UPS that is working properly with good batteries - regardless of the Windows or UPS software settings.

He also said the system came back on by itself. That also is not a default behavior, but instead requires a user change in the BIOS Setup Menu (see here) - typically used by admins of mission essential "unattended" computers - computers running in remote, unmanned locations.

All that is totally different from the system automatically "initiating a shutdown" which would be the safe and "graceful", and correct way to deal with power outages. And while the UPS itself typically restores power to its outlets once mains power is restored, again, the default behavior of PCs is to remain powered off, until the power button is pressed by a human.

If the UPS batteries are good, and the UPS is properly sized for the expected loads, then, in the event of a power outage, at a bare minimum the connected devices should continue to receive "uninterrupted" power long enough for the controlling software to "initiate" and "complete" a graceful shutdown of the connected computer.

If a properly sized UPS with good batteries is not maintaining backup power that long, the UPS is faulty.

Note I am assuming the wall outlet is properly wired too since some UPSs will balk if they sense the outlet is improperly wired, or even if missing an Earth ground. For this reason, every home and every computer user should have access to a AC Outlet Tester to ensure the wall outlet is properly wired and grounded to Earth ground. I recommend one with a GFCI (ground fault circuit interrupt) indicator as it can be used to test bathroom and kitchen outlets (outlets near water) too. These testers can be found for your type and voltage outlet, foreign or domestic, (like this one for the UK, or this one for German outlets) at most home improvement stores, or even the electrical department at Wal-Mart. Use it to test all the outlets in the home and if a fault is shown, have it fixed by a qualified electrician.

Having said that, if the wall outlet is not properly wired, the typical quality UPS will alert the user immediately when plugged into the wall, either by alarm, an error message on the status display screen (if the UPS has one) or an indicator LED, typically on the back of the UPS. In other words, if the outlet wiring is faulty, the UPS will not work for a period of time, then suddenly not work - not unless a new fault in the outlet wiring suddenly appears.

well, is not the OS is crash, but hibernate suddenly, this is still happen today, even though I replaced all the APC 2200va UPS batteries with new ones, 1-2 months ago.... so, in the future, i think will never connect the usb cable data again from my PC into my ups anymore.

Found it.

By default, Windows 10, amongst others, will initiate shutdown as soon as it receives a power failure through USB from a plugged in UPS device.

So without the right software, two scenarios are possible:

* UPS battery 100%.
* Plug in the PC.
* Plug in the USB.
If I unplug the battery from the wall, the PC says right away "low battery. shutting down.." with no way of interrupting it.

* UPS battery 100%.
* Plug in the PC.
* DON'T plug in the USB.
If I unplug the battery from the wall, the PC runs for 20 solid minutes.
And then shuts down with no warning after that 20 minutes.


The OTHER way to handle this, for a consumer APC/SE UPS anyway, is by installing the software POWERSHUTE. (which is apparently being sunset. fun, heh?)
This will allow you to customize the action when your PC receives the warning.
Here's a screenshot of the interface. Default action is "immediately".

View attachment 345686

I have also used this program on my PC, but it seems like the UPS APC meter bar (from windows 10) still on my OS, so the problem from the beginning still appears, and will disappear if I unplug the USB data cable to my UPS APC 2200VA.

 

[Bill_Bright]

well, is not the OS is crash, but hibernate suddenly,

so, in the future, i think will never connect the usb cable data again from my PC into my ups anymore.

Yeah, but that sure shouldn't matter. And without the cable, the computer will not go into hibernation mode (where all your data and critical system files are "safely" saved). Instead, when the batteries run down, UPS output power will just cease and the OS and computer will come crashing down. Not good.

Now for sure, the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature of a good UPS with AVR is, by far, the most important feature, advantage, and reason to use a UPS. Backup power during a full power outage is only a minor bonus feature. So if the power goes out when you are using the computer, you can simply manually initiate a "graceful" shutdown and saving of your open files yourself to prevent a crash and loss of date. So not sure if the communications cable is that important for you - especially if your UPS has a status display panel too.

I just had a thought and scanned back through this thread to see if you ever tried a different USB cable. I didn't see it. So did you try a different cable? Sorry if you did and I missed that in my re-scan. I also apologize if I skipped over any comments about warranties - is the UPS still under warranty and if so, did you check with APC? I'm afraid since APC was taken over by Schneider Electric, their tech support has not just gone downhill, its gone "splat" at the bottom. But you might get lucky and reach someone who cares, and can actually do something about it.

That said, I have a very old APC UPS that uses a non-standard USB communications cable. The computer end is standard, but the UPS end is not. The proprietary APC cable must be used. On my newer APC UPSs, they do use standard USB cables that can be swapped. So trying a different cable may not be an option.

I think it is important to point out this is NOT normal behavior for APC UPSs and while certainly frustrating, one should not get turned off from APC due to this one incident. Even the best of the best will occasionally make a faulty unit. I personally will not hesitate to go APC next time I am in the market for a new UPS.

 

[Waldorf]

@arni-gx
as long as its not going below 95ish on boot up, its fine,
seems to be standard behaviour on 10.
can be related to win needing some time during boot/loading stuff, to talk to the UPS and figure out its level,
as any UPS i worked with/on, showed the same thing on any win 10 rig.

@destoo
nope. win will never shutdown a pc on any ext device stopping to work,
unless its a crash (shutdown isnt), BSOD, or something triggers MB/psu protections,
but again, has nothing to do with default win/ups settings (which are usually sleep/hibernation).

and having worked on +50 pc/workstations/server using UPSs in the past +10y,
i have yet to see anything but a screen "flicker/refresh", when something bad happens on usb side,
no matter OS used.


@Bill_Bright
and quality went down as well.
my 1500VA "pro-sumer" burned down after a year of use (running a max of 2min on half load on blackouts),
the replacement i received "died" 6 month later and refuses to go online.

any review i have seen since MC started selling Cyberpower units, show equal (sometimes) better "perf"
vs APC, and virtually all are quieter, incl when the fan runs,
and the only time i hear i high pitched noise from the unit when the display is going to sleep, is on APC,
while changing settings for it to stay on, removed the noise..

 

[Bill_Bright]

and quality went down as well.

Well, anecdotal examples don't necessarily illustrate or represent the norm. There are many factors at play here, not least of which is the fact more and more users are realizing surge and spike protectors are not good enough and that they need something more. So more and more users are buying UPSs.

With the "number" of UPS being used skyrocketing, the "number" of UPS that fail are sure to go up too - and that means the "number" of unhappy users go up as well. More unhappy users make for louder unhappy complaints.

"Numbers" going up does NOT automatically mean, however, that the failure rate or "percentages" are going up. And I think we need to keep that fact in perspective.

Sadly, another problem is many users don't do adequate (or even any! ) homework when researching. And just like many PSU buyers, they buy the cheapest UPS they can find. That is a big mistake. If one buys a poor quality UPS they are going to get a poor quality UPS.

APC is not alone in this. Anecdotally speaking, I've used dozens of UPS over the years. The majority have been APC (before and after Schneider), but we've used many CyberPower and a couple (as in 2) Tripp Lite/Eaton too. And one "GeekSquad" (BestBuy branded) UPS made by CyberPower. Yet we had more CyberPower units fail than APC - including the GeekSquad UPS. And one of the Tripp Lite units failed too - representing a 50% failure rate.

Yet the real facts are, Tripp Lite UPS made by Eaton are some of the better (albeit more expensive) UPS out there. And both APC and CyberPower do indeed make quality, long lasting UPS - but you have to be willing to spend some good money too.

To that, I think one of the problems goes back to what I said above about users demanding lower cost UPS, or just hesitant or unwilling to "invest" in quality UPS. The manufacturers are responding by expanding their lower-tier and entry level product lines by providing more UPS options to the budget minded too.

It is my belief the "apparent" decline in quality is the result of more and more people buying lower quality (read: budget) UPS.

Just to counter your anecdotal example, the APC Back-UPS 1500VA UPS (from Schneider Electric) I have supporting this computer I bought in 2016. I just installed its 3rd set of batteries (counting the original set) and the UPS is still working just fine.

I don't know why yours failed. It could be bad luck and you got two lemons. It could be bad design. Or it could be your facility power is flakey and/or Mother Nature does not like you. There really is no way to tell. However, if bad design, there likely would be MANY reports from unhappy people complaining about the exact same model number, or at least model "series" UPS.

 

[Waldorf]

all three APC units i had died in less than 3y of use, vs 7 cyberpower units in the last 10y,
all still working, 6 with friends that got them from me when i upgraded.
and all were pure sine-out units, so no, nothing "cheap"...

ignoring flaky power is why i have a UPS, so if that's causing it to die (having to pull the power plug before it started burning),
the company doesnt know what they are doing.
at almost 300$ for a pro-sumer unit i expect it to work, especially when all CP units at half the cost worked for +8y,
without the need for repair/replacement, in double the number vs APC units.
(even the 60$ non-avr brick to run router/device chargers, has now lasted longer).

 

[Bill_Bright]

ignoring flaky power is why i have a UPS

Sorry! My bad. I need to clarify my statement.

By flakey, I am not referring to "dirty" power coming off the grid. I agree, if you have "dirty" power or an unstable grid (like me living in Tornado Alley) that is excellent justification for having a "good" UPS with AVR on all our computers and other sensitive electronics.

But even a "good" UPS with AVR needs to be connected to a properly wired outlet that is providing a good, solid path to Earth ground. An outlet that is improperly wired, damaged/faulty, and/or not providing zero or near zero resistance/continuity to Earth ground is what I meant by "flakey".

"Good" UPSs with AVR are indeed very robust devices and can indeed take a lot of abuse (thanks, in large part, to the anomaly absorption capabilities of the battery cells themselves - another advantage UPS have over surge and spike protectors). But if the UPS itself is subjected to a constant bombardment of excessive surges and spikes, and especially if the outlet lacks or is improperly grounded to Earth ground, the UPS cannot shunt most of those abusive anomalies to Earth ground like it needs too.

That constant bombardment of abuse pounding on the UPS will speed up aging on the UPS input circuits and in extreme cases, will take the UPS out.

HOWEVER, even when that abuse takes the UPS out, AS LONG AS the connected devices survive, the UPS did its job! It sacrificed its life for the devices - and perhaps more importantly, "the data" - it was tasked to protect.

 

[Waldorf]

@Bill_Bright

sure,
but not only did all units com with "faulty wiring" leds, i always check all outlets that are used by "electronics" when i move,
and i had a 800W CP unit working on the same outlet for over 2y, under virtually identical conditions and load,
way longer than the two APC units of next higher output/tier.
so again, either down to CP being better, or APC not knowing what they are doing (in short).

fact is, most of the +20 units running on POS/registers/training room computers where i worked at,
are still there, over 10y later (with new batteries of course), simple 300W units that cost a 1/4th of what i had,
so yeah, my experience in recent years points to lower "quality" (e.g. tiny noisy fans that are known to crap out within 2y, which the CP dont have),
even if its just at the "inspection" desk..

i was lucky that it happened when i was home, or my place would have burned down,
(started smelling like burned electronics in the room, unit hummed and was too hot to leave ur hands on it)
and even their +250k coverage wouldn't have been enough to deal with the full loss of household,
ignoring that it would probably be not that easy to prove it was their unit causing it..

 

[arni-gx]

Yeah, but that sure shouldn't matter. And without the cable, the computer will not go into hibernation mode (where all your data and critical system files are "safely" saved). Instead, when the batteries run down, UPS output power will just cease and the OS and computer will come crashing down. Not good.

Now for sure, the AVR (automatic voltage regulation) feature of a good UPS with AVR is, by far, the most important feature, advantage, and reason to use a UPS. Backup power during a full power outage is only a minor bonus feature. So if the power goes out when you are using the computer, you can simply manually initiate a "graceful" shutdown and saving of your open files yourself to prevent a crash and loss of date. So not sure if the communications cable is that important for you - especially if your UPS has a status display panel too.

I just had a thought and scanned back through this thread to see if you ever tried a different USB cable. I didn't see it. So did you try a different cable? Sorry if you did and I missed that in my re-scan. I also apologize if I skipped over any comments about warranties - is the UPS still under warranty and if so, did you check with APC? I'm afraid since APC was taken over by Schneider Electric, their tech support has not just gone downhill, its gone "splat" at the bottom. But you might get lucky and reach someone who cares, and can actually do something about it.

That said, I have a very old APC UPS that uses a non-standard USB communications cable. The computer end is standard, but the UPS end is not. The proprietary APC cable must be used. On my newer APC UPSs, they do use standard USB cables that can be swapped. So trying a different cable may not be an option.

I think it is important to point out this is NOT normal behavior for APC UPSs and while certainly frustrating, one should not get turned off from APC due to this one incident. Even the best of the best will occasionally make a faulty unit. I personally will not hesitate to go APC next time I am in the market for a new UPS.

no, my both UPS APC does not have status display panel, i am only using the new version of powerchute personal edition from UPS APC website.

change the usb cable data from original UPS APC, still nothing change with my problems in my 1st post in this thread.

@arni-gx
as long as its not going below 95ish on boot up, its fine,
seems to be standard behaviour on 10.
can be related to win needing some time during boot/loading stuff, to talk to the UPS and figure out its level,
as any UPS i worked with/on, showed the same thing on any win 10 rig.

@destoo
nope. win will never shutdown a pc on any ext device stopping to work,
unless its a crash (shutdown isnt), BSOD, or something triggers MB/psu protections,
but again, has nothing to do with default win/ups settings (which are usually sleep/hibernation).

and having worked on +50 pc/workstations/server using UPSs in the past +10y,
i have yet to see anything but a screen "flicker/refresh", when something bad happens on usb side,
no matter OS used.


@Bill_Bright
and quality went down as well.
my 1500VA "pro-sumer" burned down after a year of use (running a max of 2min on half load on blackouts),
the replacement i received "died" 6 month later and refuses to go online.

any review i have seen since MC started selling Cyberpower units, show equal (sometimes) better "perf"
vs APC, and virtually all are quieter, incl when the fan runs,
and the only time i hear i high pitched noise from the unit when the display is going to sleep, is on APC,
while changing settings for it to stay on, removed the noise..

i think will plug in the usb cable data from my pc to UPS APC BX 2200MI MS, after i am using my pc for 30-60mnt.

i dont know why, is this the problem of UPS APC battery or the bar meter from win 10, but the 2 version of powerchute personal edition (old & new update), my batre ups apc always show 95% in the beginning my log on into win 10, so it will gradually become 100% for another hour.

 

[Bill_Bright]

i am only using the new version of powerchute personal edition from UPS APC website.

I tried that and don't like it at all. It seems geared towards enterprise/corporate networks with network administrators. It is NOT, IMO, user friendly at all for the typical home and small business user.

I complained to APC about it too and urged them to keep the old, Windows app version available for home users.

So I rolled back to the old Powerchute and will continue to use that as it works fine.

 

[arni-gx]

I tried that and don't like it at all. It seems geared towards enterprise/corporate networks with network administrators. It is NOT, IMO, user friendly at all for the typical home and small business user.

I complained to APC about it too and urged them to keep the old, Windows app version available for home users.

So I rolled back to the old Powerchute and will continue to use that as it works fine.

I have also used it, the old version, but its the same result as the new version too.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I have also used it, the old version, but its the same result as the new version too.

I did not mean to imply the results would be different. I was just making an off-topic comment that I do not like the new version.

The fact the old and the new show the same results is why I went back to, and will keep using, the old, much more (IMO) user-friendly version.

 

[arni-gx]

I did not mean to imply the results would be different. I was just making an off-topic comment that I do not like the new version.

The fact the old and the new show the same results is why I went back to, and will keep using, the old, much more (IMO) user-friendly version.

Actually there is some trick, usually, installed the old version 1st, after that the new version refused to install in to the same PC (instal the new version, both, if installed separated, still using the default bar meter for ups battery from windows 10).

So, what i did is, removed the old version 1st, after that, installed the new version and then installed the old version, and voila, bar meter ups battery from win 10 is forever gone, but bar meter ups battery (ups apc bx 2200 mi ms) for both app (the old & new version) is still there.

well, its look like, somehow it can solved this my problem, temporary.

 

[chrcoluk]

If you have a device that can run NUT server, then you can connect via ethernet from that to the desktop and use something like win nut, this has a configurable behaviour e.g. auto hibernate when 40% battery left. Just make sure the device that is running the NUT server, wont shutdown until a later point, so the others can read battery and power state. You should make sure is a clear large margin to allow for a safe hibernation/shutdown. That is the main purpose of consumer UPS, dont do something daft like waiting until 5% battery left and then you lose power in middle of hibernation.

Another advantage of this setup is then you can apply the NUT shutdown to multiple devices, not reliant on just whatever you connect the USB to.

Desktop software I use is here.

https://github.com/nutdotnet/WinNUT-Client - still maintained
https://github.com/gawindx/WinNUT-Client - no longer maintained but works fine.

Since I got my volt meter, I have tested many sockets which seem to be correctly grounded, was great advice from Bill for me on that one.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Actually there is some trick, usually

I don't see where this is a trick. First, my comment you quoted was simply expressing my opinion about APC's new UPS monitoring app - I don't like it for individual home use. It worked, but IMO, it is geared more for the corporate network administration.

Second, I don't see any Windows power bar/meter because, when I installed PowerChute it disabled Windows battery monitoring. So, for example, when I look at power options, there are none for when "On battery". And that makes sense. PowerChute has taken over those responsibilities. I don't want two programs trying to control my UPS or Windows shutdown.

Since I got my volt meter, I have tested many sockets which seem to be correctly grounded, was great advice from Bill for me on that one.

Ummm, thanks for the kind words but I note you cannot verify a wall outlet is correctly grounded to Earth ground with a multimeter. You must have direct access to Earth ground at the service panel (which hopefully is properly grounded ) or actual grounding stake - if present. This is required so you can measure resistance between that service panel Earth ground and the ground connection in the outlet.

You can test to make the outlet is correctly wired, and it is critical that is correct. But again, that does not test back to Earth ground to ensure the outlet ground is properly connected to Earth ground.

Clear as mud, huh?

 

[chrcoluk]

Yep, proper confused lol, the device I brought has various status lights, it doesnt just read the volts,

Has all of the following combinations.

Correct - all sockets I tested so far.
Open neutral.
Open live.
Live/Ground reverse.
Live/Neutral reverse.
Live/Ground reverse. Missing ground.

So its not testing what I thought it was.

 

[Bill_Bright]

It tests to make sure the outlet is properly wired, that is, hot to hot and neutral to neutral. And it also confirms the ground wire is ultimately connected to neutral, typically back at the service panel. HOWEVER, it does not confirm that the ground wire connects to "Earth ground" - which is required for safety reasons.

So a properly wired outlet (hot to hot, neutral to neutral) is a HUGE step in ensuring the connected electronics are receiving the clean power they needs. And in fact, "IF" the connected electronics are all working ideally 100% of the time, that is all they need.

BUT, there is no way we mere humans can ensure the electronics does and will continue to work ideally 100% of the time. Man is not yet able to create perfection 100% of the time. Manufacturing defects, even with the best models from the best makers, will happen. Time ages everything - including electronics. Devices WILL fail - eventually. Mother Nature can wreck havoc with excessive surges and spikes which can damage electronics. We humans drop things, spill things, accidently kick things and otherwise do stupid things to damage the devices. Grounding to Earth ground can help prevent catastrophic circumstances (electrocutions, fires, etc.) when such unexpected, unwanted "things" occur.

There are other advantages to ensuring a good path to "Earth ground". Surge and spike protectors and uninterruptible power supplies are better able to suppress excessive surges and spikes if they are able to "shunt" those excess voltages to "Earth ground" instead of simply (trying to) absorb those excesses with their internal components (MOVs and batteries) which may result in damage and/or excessive heat issue.

Also, EMI/RFI is often totally mitigated or at least greatly suppressed when all the connected (and interconnected) electronics are tied to the same, common, Earth ground.

So its not testing what I thought it was.

Well, it is testing to ensure the outlet is properly wired (hot to hot and neutral to neutral) and that is a very good, and critical thing. You did NOT waste your money. As I noted before, every home and every computer user should have access to an outlet tester.

I note building codes in almost all countries have for decades required all facilities be tied to Earth ground. Problems typically come from subsequent damage and repairs done improperly and not to code. DIY remodeling projects by amateurs without the proper permits or code compliance inspections are a major cause of problems.

So, if you live in a newer home that has not been remodeled, and the outlets have never been damaged and/or replaced, odds are they are wired property and provide a good path to Earth ground. But new home inspections do not always involve testing and inspecting each and every outlet. So it is still wise to double check with a tester, just in case. A mere human wired it initially, after all.

 

[arni-gx]

I don't see where this is a trick. First, my comment you quoted was simply expressing my opinion about APC's new UPS monitoring app - I don't like it for individual home use. It worked, but IMO, it is geared more for the corporate network administration.

Second, I don't see any Windows power bar/meter because, when I installed PowerChute it disabled Windows battery monitoring. So, for example, when I look at power options, there are none for when "On battery". And that makes sense. PowerChute has taken over those responsibilities. I don't want two programs trying to control my UPS or Windows shutdown.


Ummm, thanks for the kind words but I note you cannot verify a wall outlet is correctly grounded to Earth ground with a multimeter. You must have direct access to Earth ground at the service panel (which hopefully is properly grounded ) or actual grounding stake - if present. This is required so you can measure resistance between that service panel Earth ground and the ground connection in the outlet.

You can test to make the outlet is correctly wired, and it is critical that is correct. But again, that does not test back to Earth ground to ensure the outlet ground is properly connected to Earth ground.

Clear as mud, huh?

its different in my PC (with plug in the usb cable data to my ups battery) ;

1. installed the old version of powerchute = bar meter ups battery for win 10 its still there (for couple days = my PC can still hibernate suddenly, sometimes when login to my OS).
2. remove the old version of powerchute, then installed the new version = bar meter win 10 its still there (for couple days = my PC can still hibernate suddenly, sometimes when login to my OS).
3. still using the new version, then installed the old version, again (so, there is 2 version app) = bar meter win 10 its gone, its never appear again (my PC is not hibernate suddenly anymore when login to my OS).

so, weird, huh ???

btw, the new version can not be always Turn ON just like the old version, right ?? because the new version, need LOG IN with username & password everytime if i am gonna use that app, so if i am going to idle for long time, the new version will be automatically LOG OFF.

also, the old version, there is no need to use username & pasword everytime if you are going to use that app.

essentialy,, there is only 1 app that still monitoring 24 hours your ups battery apc, that is the old version, right ??

 

[Bill_Bright]

btw, the new version can not be always Turn ON just like the old version, right ??

I can't answer that because I quickly uninstalled the new version and went back to the old version because...

because the new version, need LOG IN with username & password everytime if i am gonna use that app,

The new version clearly is NOT user friendly and is geared more for larger networks that have system admins. It is not for individuals.

I would highly recommend all APC PowerChute users who are not happy with the new software, "PowerChute Serial Shutdown", for monitoring APC UPS contact Schneider (parent company of APC) at SchneiderCommunity.Support@se.com and [nicely but forcibly] express your complaints about the software and strongly urge they do NOT discontinue PCPE (PowerChute Personal Edition), but keep it available for their many many home and small office customers.