ATI HD5XXX Series Discussion

[Migi06]

Actually, that picture PROVES the card has a Volterra controller.

Yes, but does they have Voltera VT1165MF chip wich can be controlled with Software?
http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/2098/radeonhd587003.jpg
^5870

Thats is my main concern if ASUS 5850 has it...
Largon, Midian/Kaotika..?

 

[BraveSoul]

dont all 5870 and 5850 have Voltera chips?

 

[Migi06]

All 5870 has them, but 5850 hasnt confirmed yet..

 

[largon]

Yes, but does they have Voltera VT1165MF chip wich can be controlled with Software?

I know for a fact 5850 does have Volterra VT1165MF. It's on the backside.

Largon, Midian/Kaotika..?

I guess you mean Midian/Kaotika from MuroBBS? Not sure what you're trying to say, though?

 

[pantherx12]

Awww its so cute and small!

 

[Migi06]

I know for a fact 5850 does have Volterra VT1165MF.
I guess you mean Midian/Kaotika from MuroBBS? Not sure what you're trying to say, though?

Kyllä Wondering are you same person..

Thanks for the info.

Edit.
Picture from back side:
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/screenshots/original/2009/09/Radeon_HD_5850_R_ckseite.jpg

 

[largon]

Jos meinaat että olisin Midian/Kaotika, niin enpäs olekaan.

edit:
And for the apparent "interest" , here's the same in english:
If you mean I would be Midian/Kaotika, I'm not.

 

[ShRoOmAlIsTiC]

i think i got 1 of the last ones sry :0) should come next week,..,.,5850 going to be out of stock longer then 5870,.,. true?

I just ordered the HIS 5850 from zipzoomfly, it was 10 buck more but thats ok.

 

[BraveSoul]

thx largon for clearing that up....., cant wait to play with MSI Afterburner on sapphire 5850

 

[ShRoOmAlIsTiC]

after shipping and taxes the his at zipzoomfly was a dollar cheaper. newegg has the 5850's again. damn it, right after I sent zip the money.

 

[mastrdrver]

How about some 5870 quadfire plus gulftown vantage action?

 

[stinzza]

ey o friends.. is it true that the 5850 overclock to 1.4v an then with a core speed at 1050mhz`ish.. if so show benchies i beggin you

 

[W1zzard]

ey o friends.. is it true that the 5850 overclock to 1.4v an then with a core speed at 1050mhz`ish.. if so show benchies i beggin you

i got 1000 mhz at 1.3v out of my card, check the review on the front page

 

[Zubasa]

The way the 5850 is created is actually better than the 4850.
The 4850s are almost garenteed to get poor OC (at lease the early ones),
but with the 5850 you can actually be lucky that its a defective chip that might clock very well.

 

[nascasho]

Hey W1zzard, you been having any CFX issues lately? Because I have an intermittent one that won't go away... and I hope it's software releated vs. hardware...

And by issues I mean flickering/freaking out textures in Vantage along with re-running Vantage and taking a 2k - 5k score hit?

(Single and CFX modes)

 

[Plug]

Power play works now with the new flashed Asus Refrence Bios with limits removed

 

[stinzza]

wll i must say.. when components is closer to wan other it locical that heat differs.. so the smaller the chip is the less heat it can handel.. the dencer the components gets...
nice wizzard.. show more.. a full review with a stable 1.4v 5850..

 

[Bo_Fox]

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2913/gpuvoltagemsifixed.jpg

Power play works now with the new flashed Asus Refrence Bios with limits removed

Is that a 5870 or a 5850?

 

[Plug]

Is that a 5870 or a 5850?

2x 5870s.

 

[theorw]

Do u guys think that a MUSASHI would be efficient for a 5850?
Cos i have one and i am thinking of using it when i get my 5850 in the next few days?

 

[DarkEgo]

Do u guys think that a MUSASHI would be efficient for a 5850?
Cos i have one and i am thinking of using it when i get my 5850 in the next few days?

If you have something to cool the VRM's that it will work nice. If you only have what comes with it, then no don't use it.

 

[1Kurgan1]

i got 1000 mhz at 1.3v out of my card, check the review on the front page

Why isnt there any performance figures for it at 1ghz?

 

[Bo_Fox]

Hey W1zzard, what do you think about doing an in-depth article on how the memory bandwidth is bottlenecking the 5870?

Here's what I just posted in a GT300 thread (which really should've been posted here):

Ok the memory bus decreased, but bandwidth increased. Normally, when you talk about specs, you have to take the practical ones, bandwidth is and bus width is not. And what's more important, bandwidth is much higher in GT300 than in RV870, so it doesn't matter if RV870 is bottlenecked, which I think it's not.

GT200 -> 512bit/8 x 2500 = 160 GB/s
GT300 -> 384bit/8 x 4800 = 230 GB/s
RV770 -> 256bit/8 x 3600 = 115 GB/s
RV790 -> 256bit/8 x 3900 = 124 GB/s
RV870 -> 256bit/8 x 4800 = 153 GB/s

As you see even the GTX285 had higher memory bandwidth, but that doesn't mean the GTX was bottlenecked, not at all.
Also the jump from RV770 to RV870 is 153/115 = 1.33 or 33% more bandwidth. Or RV790/RV870 is 153/124 = 1.23 or 23%.
While the jump in Nvidia is 230/160= 1,43 or 44% improvement. Nothing points out to GT300 being memory bottlenecked, far from it.



Yeah, I knew about that decrease, but it's important to note that GT200 never ever reached anything close to that number, and I mean 24576, and GT300 can. Peak <insert spec> means very little unless you are speaking about the exact same architecture. It's like RV770 had 1.2 TFlops and GT200 only had 622 Gflops or 933 with dual issue (which almost never happens), but GT200 has the ability to use them much better and it's faster.



Not true. http://forums.techpowerup.com/showpost.php?p=1575651&postcount=188

We don't know the clocks. The limitations they encountered in clocking GT200 higher could not happen now. GT200 was 65nm and RV770 was 55nm. Now both are 40nm so they can achieve clocks that are similar, they might not, but the posibility is higher than in previous generation.

The truth is that at least since DX10 cards the performance/transistors ratio has been constant in almost every chip. If you add G92 and RV670 to the equations that I made in the link, it becomes even more apparent, g92 with 756 millions more than competes with the low end of RV770. And the 667 million trans. RV670 does so with G92.



The X2 also has two schedulers, one per chip, so that can be the problem as I said.

The only way in which memory bottleneck can be proven in RV870 is taking the HD5870 and downclocking the chip while leaving the memory as is. If you downclock and performance is mantained then the card was bottlenecked and if it does perform worse then it's not.

Anyway specs don't tell all the story. My latest assumptions are not based in specs (only), they are based in all the aspects of the chip covered in the white paper and architecture previews like the one in Real World Technologies. GT300 has improved in almost every practical aspect and RV870 is basically the same chip, with twice the units and DX11 suport. Just because the latter has not scaled well, doesn't mean the former will not scale well. For instance, Nvidia has scaled much better in the past. They went from 128 SPs to 240SP, 1.875x the ammount. At the same time AMD went from 320SP to 800SP, 2.5x. None of them reached that amount of improvement but Nvidia got much closer. Looking at it that way, it doesn't surprise at all that RV870 didn't scale that well, RV770 neither did after all. And now Nvidia is doing a 2.15x increase, so chances are big for them to do much better.

Regarding the memory bottleneck for a 5870, whenever I see a dual 4890 in Crossfire beating a 5870, I blame it on the reduced total memory bandwidth for a 5870 compared to two 4890's in total.

A 5870 theoretically should be at least equal to dual 4890's in specifications, save the memory bandwidth. It should NEVER be slower than dual 4890's if it were not bottlenecked by memory, simply due to the fact that crossfire scaling is not 100% efficient.

Once again, if I see a 2x 4890 beating a 5870 by say, 40% at a high resolution, I simply point my fingers at the memory bandwidth of a 5870. It is as logical as it can get.

_____________

Do you agree with me, W1zzard, on blaming the 5870's lower performance against 2x stock 4890's on the limited memory bandwidth? It'd be awesome to bring this issue to light before some other site does, so that TPU grabs some respect and rep, just like with this great article on the PCI-E bandwidth bottleneck.

 

[theorw]

If you have something to cool the VRM's that it will work nice. If you only have what comes with it, then no don't use it.

Well i do have spare heatsinks to cool the vrm s!
We ll see,maybe i ll be one of the first people to use aftermarket cooler on this card!

 

[jessicafae]

Hey W1zzard, what do you think about doing an in-depth article on how the memory bandwidth is bottlenecking the 5870?

...

Once again, if I see a 2x 4890 beating a 5870 by say, 40% at a high resolution, I simply point my fingers at the memory bandwidth of a 5870. It is as logical as it can get.

bo_fox, this is an interesting idea. It would be easy to under-clock the memory of a 2x 4890 so that the effective memory bandwidth of the pair is the same as the 5870. What do we get for benchmarks?