Is it worth buying a gold vs a silver PSU?

[Solaris17]

I agree. Because if your so poor to not be able to afford 20 bucks extra on a power supply then maybe building a computer shouldn't be a priority. Maybe you should focus on food or shelter.

Oh and before you point to my specs and say (You don't have a gold rated PSU) ll tell you right now. I bought that before I knew better. When this one dies Ill be buying a gold rated one.

dont try and troll MM you dont need to attack someone because of your personal PSU belifes. No one cares about anyone elses opinion that much in this thread to take you seriously and it certainly looks like your only game because dave is in on it. a watt here or their is nothing no matter what it adds upto over time. maybe to the super OCD or the super enthusiest which BTW if you have enough systems for 80+ to make a diffirence in your everyday computing tasks then maybe you should find a girlfriend and stop bitching about electric you obviously have money. and before you even spout that $20 bullshit try to figure it out first.

80+ silver
SPARKLE 85+ Green 600 R-SPI600ACH5B 600W ATX12V v2...

80+ gold
FSP Group AURUM GOLD 600W (AU-600) ATX12V /EPS 12V...


get it yet?

 

[FordGT90Concept]

A person running simulations 24/7 will see the benefit of Bronze and Platinum, whereas your regular facebooker is better off with the cheapest PSU. Gamers, probably somewhere in the middle.

Out of those three scenarios, the biggest power consumption difference is the middle one. "Cheapest PSU" often means <50% power efficency and little regard to standby power draw. In other words, a server running 24/7 with an 80+ certified PSU may easily draw less than a "facebooker" computer on an hour a day with huge standby draw.

People that buy servers usually consider power draw before making their purchase. Facebookers usually buy whatever John Doe at xyz computer store tells them to.

 

[TheMailMan78]

dont try and troll MM you dont need to attack someone because of your personal PSU belifes. No one cares about anyone elses opinion that much in this thread to take you seriously and it certainly looks like your only game because dave is in on it. a watt here or their is nothing no matter what it adds upto over time. maybe to the super OCD or the super enthusiest which BTW if you have enough systems for 80+ to make a diffirence in your everyday computing tasks then maybe you should find a girlfriend and stop bitching about electric you obviously have money. and before you even spout that $20 bullshit try to figure it out first.

80+ silver
SPARKLE 85+ Green 600 R-SPI600ACH5B 600W ATX12V v2...

80+ gold
FSP Group AURUM GOLD 600W (AU-600) ATX12V /EPS 12V...


get it yet?

Ah so when I say something you dont agree with I'm a troll. But if I said something you did agree with I would get a "thanks". Understood.

 

[Solaris17]

Out of those three scenarios, the biggest power consumption difference is the middle one. "Cheapest PSU" often means <50% power efficency and little regard to standby power draw. In other words, a server running 24/7 with an 80+ certified PSU may easily draw less than a "facebooker" computer on an hour a day with huge standby draw.

People that buy servers usually consider power draw before making their purchase. Facebookers usually buy whatever John Doe at xyz computer store tells them to.

people that want a mainframe dont buy PCs at bestbuy

people that want to game dont buy PCs from sun microsystems

 

[TheMailMan78]

Oh and FYI Solaris I do have "Super OCD" as you say and I work from home and have a wife. Feel better?

 

[jsfitz54]

Economy of scale would also apply to business and government operations as well. I agree that for 24/7 operation 2% savings is better plus you know that the components are of higher quality, so in that perfect world maybe you get better longevity out of the Gold series.

I'm finding this post very useful as I am looking at new PSUs as well.

My Corsair HX850 reports on some rails just below spec and that spec difference goes lower under SLI load.
Example:3.3v = 2.296, 5v = 4.974, 12v = 12.137... for stock speed and single gpu.
Under OC conditions and SLI, numbers drop; 12v reduced to 11.something. I don't have those numbers handy as I dropped my settings to stock and removed 1 GPU for summer...due to heat in room.

Question: For efficiency, should you buy a gold psu based on just what watts you need or should you say add 20% for headroom? Example: say a 700 watt model is adequate, would a 1000 watt model be better or more efficient?

 

[Benetanegia]

Like many people already said I don't think it's worth it with current prices. I'd say that a $10 or 10 € difference could be justified but no more (and well for 1000w+ PSUs the difference could be higher).

And in reality all the 80+ cerification is pretty worthless compared to looking at reviews and searching for especifics. Some models might not get the gold certification because they don't meet the requirements at 100% load, but they do meet them at 20% and 50% which is most probably where your actual load will sit.

On top of that some models claim less than what they actually offer (and obviously some claim more than they are which is a scam), like my current PSU (TT Toughpower 775 XT) which is a Bronze PSU, but meets Silver requirements at all loads and even Gold at 20% load (the most important one).

 

[TheMailMan78]

Economy of scale would also apply to business and government operations as well. I agree that for 24/7 operation 2% savings is better plus you know that the components are of higher quality, so in that perfect world maybe you get better longevity out of the Gold series.

I'm finding this post very useful as I am looking at new PSUs as well.

My Corsair HX850 reports on some rails just below spec and that spec increases under SLI load.
Example:3.3v = 2.296, 5v = 4.974, 12v = 12.137... for stock speed and single gpu.
Under OC conditions and SLI, numbers drop; 12v reduced to 11.something. I don't have those numbers handy as I dropped my settings to stock and removed 1 GPU for summer...due to heat in room.

Question: For efficiency, should you buy a gold psu based on just what watts you need or should you say add 20% for headroom? Example: say a 700 watt model is adequate, would a 1000 watt model be better or more efficient?

Not more efficient so to say but much more of a future proof solution.

With that being said I doubt you need a 1000 PSU unless you are running three 580's.

 

[Solaris17]

people that want a mainframe dont buy PCs at bestbuy

people that want to game dont buy PCs from sun microsystems

Ah so when I say something you dont agree with I'm a troll. But if I said something you did agree with I would get a "thanks". Understood.

no and im not sure were you are getting that. sometimes you say things i understand or accept sometimes you dont and other times your known for trolling on TPU have you seen your infractions list? Thats all irrelevent. and just for the general public i will show the birth cirt for my PC

CORSAIR HX Series CMPSU-1000HX 1000W ATX12V 2.2 / ...

80+ not even a silver rating. but thats not what we are comparing here.

im also sure that my other PSU doesnt matter either.

ABS DARK BERET seriesDB1000-M-BRZ 1000W Continuous...

i can provide pictures if you like.

i can also tell you that doeasnt make a diffirence in my powerbill. of course i might be being unfair you might pay $3 kw/h in which case it would make a diffirence at the end of the month and you probably shouldnt have a PC and instead feed family shelter etc.

Oh and FYI Solaris I do have "Super OCD" as you say and I work from home and have a wife. Feel better?

not really other then maybe the first line i dont see how anything else i wrote COULDNT have been seen as a general blanket term for anyone else reading.

 

[TheMailMan78]

Thats all irrelevant.

Correct.

 

[entropy13]

I say yes. I think all PSUs should be capable of "GOLD" ratings or better, and anything less should be removed from the market.

In other words, remove 80% of PSU models...


Well at least you didn't say "I think all PSUs should be capable of "PLATINUM" ratings or better, and anything less should be removed from the market."

 

[FordGT90Concept]

Economy of scale would also apply to business and government operations as well. I agree that for 24/7 operation 2% savings is better plus you know that the components are of higher quality, so in that perfect world maybe you get better longevity out of the Gold series.

Efficiency doesn't mean built to last. For example, heavy, all steel cars of the 1960s can still be reliable today but their fuel efficiency was trash.

An 80+ certified PSU could get 92% 99.9999% of the time. It only takes one number (say, 100% load) not meeting the requirements to fail 80+ Platinum certification.

Question: For efficiency, should you buy a gold psu based on just what watts you need or should you say add 20% for headroom? Example: say a 700 watt model is adequate, would a 1000 watt model be better or more efficient?

When you buy a PSU, you should always aim for about 70% (e.g. 300w load, you should be looking at least at a 420w). Efficency declines with age and 50% is usually ideal. You never want to even approach 100% load or else you'll be dealing with a lot of heat, noise, and likely, a premature PSU death.

 

[jsfitz54]

When you buy a PSU, you should always aim for about 70% (e.g. 300w load, you should be looking at least at a 420w).

300 to 420 = 40% increase. We are talking HEADROOM right?
I am misunderstanding what you mean by 70%. Would you please elaborate.
Is adding 40% the sweetspot?

My UPS reports approx 350 watt draw, that includes a bunch ac adapters. So is a 490 watt /500watt psu where I should aim, in this given scenario?

 

[Zyon]

The price margin from <80 to 80 bronze is usually less than 80 bronze to silver, especially if you're going to buy one from Seasonic or something.

As much as best is always the best, I'd prefer a Corsair 80 bronze over Coolermaster 80 gold.

 

[FordGT90Concept]

300 to 420 = 40% increase. We are talking HEADROOM right?
I am misunderstanding what you mean by 70%. Would you please elaborate.
Is adding 40% the sweetspot?

My math sucks. I'm supposed to be in bed.

 

[mlee49]

What's 2% to you? Silver is 85% and Gold is 87%. As long as it is 80+ certified, I wouldn't care too much about it.

I understand your point, and most people will not run their system in the rated efficiency range anyways; but some people do want to gain that 2% because they know the long term savings.

I have a privileged of working in a mass infrastructure industry and spending $100,000 on upgrading power to gain 2% is very much worth it.


I do like what you said about it only taking one load to offset the efficiency rating. Many may not realize the efficiency curve varies per supplier.

Here's SilverStone's 80+ Gold curve

Here's Thermaltake's 80+ Gold curve:

edit, interesting reading here:

http://www.plugloadsolutions.com/80PlusPowerSupplies.aspx

 

[jsfitz54]

I do like what you said about it only taking one load to offset the efficiency rating. Many may not realize the efficiency curve varies per supplier.

So for max efficiency if you use 500watts you should buy 1000 watt PSU, if I am understanding chart and concept?

 

[mlee49]

So for max efficiency if you use 500watts you should buy 1000 watt PSU, if I am understanding chart?

Only if you can guarantee to use 500W ONLY. Once you tip over that(or under) you'll drop the efficiency.

 

[sneekypeet]

So for max efficiency if you use 500watts you should buy 1000 watt PSU, if I am understanding chart and concpt?

I got an AX1200 for this exact reason, my full loaded PC hits the most efficient band of the PSU

 

[jsfitz54]

Only if you can guarantee to use 500W ONLY. Once you tip over that(or under) you'll drop the efficiency.

My question is based on how much headroom is recommended over what current draw you use.

So, for anyone buying a PSU, they should look to oversize by 100% approx for best performance, regardless of Gold, Silver or other rating?

Those wattage calculators, for example on Newegg, are they good?

Does TPU have a wattage calculator?...If not, that may be a good thing to add to this site.

 

[Benetanegia]

I got an AX1200 for this exact reason, my full loaded PC hits the most efficient band of the PSU

But when on idle or low load (i.e movies) efficiency is probably very bad. Most PSUs don't have good efficiency at below 20%.

If you really want to go for efficiency and efficiency alone (disregarding heat/noise) you should aim at 70% for when your PC is fully loaded, and 20% for idle, also knowing that most of the time when gaming/working the PC will be somewhere in between, and thus matching the average load on your PC to 50% PSU load.

 

[Hotobu]

But when on idle or low load (i.e movies) efficiency is probably very bad. Most PSUs don't have good efficiency at below 20%.

If you really want to go for efficiency and efficiency alone (disregarding heat/noise) you should aim at 70% for when your PC is fully loaded, and 20% for idle, also knowing that most of the time when gaming/working the PC will be somewhere in between, and thus matching the average load on your PC to 50% PSU load.

Tacking onto this the 80+ ratings only kick in at 20% for this very reason. Unfortunately for the person that bought the 1200 20% of that is 240 which most people will idle well under so the gold efficiency will rarely be seen.

would be nice to see some math here

Ok:

So the difference between levels is anywhere from 2-3% So let's do the calculation with the higher number.

This means that at best a person will save 3W per 100W of usage by increasing a level in efficiency. In order to convert to killowatt hrs (Kwh) we'll multiply this by 60/1000 this reduces to 9/50 (KwH).

Now we need some electricity rates. According to this the US average is $.127/KwW (so rounding to $.13 and multiplying by 9/50 we get) $.023/KwH. Here's your proportionality constant.


But lets put in some dummy numbers to get a hypothetical range...

Let's say we've got one user that averages 200W per day, 8 hours per day for 30 days:

So that's ($.023/KwH) * 8 * 30 *(200/1000) = $1.10 per month

aaaand lets say we've got Mr. Folding @ Home whose computer is never off and has higher average loads (don't know what the average is so I'm gonna just guess that its 350 W and he's got his computer on 24/7)

($.023/KwH) * 24 * 30 *(350/1000) = $ 4.95 per month

To make ONE last note we have to remember that I did my calculations based on the higher 3% number. The difference is really between 2-3% so these savings could drop by as much as 33%.

Someone feel free to check these numbers, but I'm pretty sure they're correct.

 

[Frick]

Once it becomes a law that 80GOLD is the absolute minimum, demand will skyrocket and the economies of scale will kick in. Price premiums will decrease, and the end result is that the 80GOLD PSUs will become only slightly more expensive than the current 80Bronze ones (due to higher quality components and more features). Everybody wins, except your pocket which will need to fork out at most a few more € which can easily be covered by savings in the power bills.

The difference in power bills will not be a lot. Most people will probably not even notice it. For high end users and companies and whatnot it might matter but for the avarage guy? Not a chance. And I'm also not sure if it would be the way you say it will. Higher quality components are more expensive to produce, it's as simple as that and the components in regular 80+ PSU's will be used in other stuff anyway so they will still be manufactured. And I for one think it is nice that there is some room to play here. The crap PSU's should be removed, yes, but there are a lot of PSU's that are not gold and are pretty darn good.

I agree. Because if your so poor to not be able to afford 20 bucks extra on a power supply then maybe building a computer shouldn't be a priority. Maybe you should focus on food or shelter.

Meh, it's more about wanting to spend money. As I said, I would not notice a whole lot of difference in power draw going to a gold unit. Lets scale up a bit and look at prices for 600W units, regular 80+ and 80+ Gold. FSP units is a bit unfair to look at as they are dirt cheap compared to .. anything really. The usual difference between a solid 80+ unit (like the Corsair CX V2) and a gold unit is €40-50. YOu have to use a whole lot of power to make up for it.

I mean it's good to buy gold units, but it's not bad to not buy them. I for one would rather spend that cash on other things. But if you do have the cash and want to buy one, go nuts.

 

[cadaveca]

($.023/KwH) * 24 * 30 *(350/1000) = $ 4.95 per month

Now multiply that by the 6 people I have in my family, and the 6 PCs i have running now, including my review rig and HTPC, and it adds up fairly quickly.

Contrary to most people, I have a large family, and all of us, besides my youngest, who is three, use PCs, whether for work or gaming.

2%, across 6 PCs, is 12%. Of course, if you don't care about the GOLD rating, most likely you aren't even gonna get SILVER PSU, you'll get bronze, or just 80+ making that 7% x6....equals a potential 42% "worth" of wattage saved.

Of course, it's really only a straight 7%, but the actual cost I save means that half of one PCs usage, technically, is "free".


Of course, jsut because my perspective differs from others, doesn't mean I'm right and thier wrong, of vice-versa...it just means we have different priorities.


My priority is offering my kids the best I can, and that also means having a minimal environmental impact. We've already discussed on the forums here how I do not drive, and now, do not even buy gas, at all, other than to heat my home in winter.

Yes, my standards are high, but for what I see as good reason. Money, to me, takes second fiddle, and my family comes first. Your family too.

 

[thebluebumblebee]

Sorry cadaveca, you would not save 12% on your electric bill, or even the usage from your PC's by switching to Gold. You can't add the percentages. You can add the watts saved, but not the percentages. Think of it this way, could you really save 100% if you went and got 50 PC's running Gold?