Amd/ATI Vs Nvidia

[demonbrawn]

I've always been an ATI guy myself. However, the past year or so I've had nothing but problems with ATI cards and the drivers buggin with other programs. I gave up on CrossFire altogether because it would always completely mess up. I just can't wait until I get enough money to get a newer card because it's pretty frustrating right now...

 

[tkpenalty]

So where are the Nvidians? Nvidia needs your support! (Unless Nvidians dont exist).

 

[Pinchy]

im still sticking to ATI, cus my $200 FX5200 really put me off, but im having a couple of probs with my X1950 (but i doubt its the card, probably something else)

 

[pt]

im still sticking to ATI, cus my $200 FX5200 really put me off, but im having a couple of probs with my X1950 (but i doubt its the card, probably something else)

200$ fx 5200?

 

[Pinchy]

200$ fx 5200?

lmao this was 3 years ago

and a 128mb card 3 years ago was some serious money

it was a killer for its time, but got old really fast

 

[Wile E]

I'm gonna have to go AMD/ATI for 2 main reasons. 1.)I have a Crossfire motherboard 2.)ATIs have always had better image quality to me, when compared to it's nVidia counterpart. (7900 vs 1900 or 7800 vs 1800 for example, not counting the 8800s, as there's no ATI counterparts, yet) I'll sacrifice a few FPS for the better image.

 

[Zubasa]

I'm gonna have to go AMD/ATI for 2 main reasons. 1.)I have a Crossfire motherboard 2.)ATIs have always had better image quality to me, when compared to it's nVidia counterpart. (7900 vs 1900 or 7800 vs 1800 for example, not counting the 8800s, as there's no ATI counterparts, yet) I'll sacrifice a few FPS for the better image.

The fact that you can get those few frames back by OC.

 

[Wile E]

The fact that you can get those few frames back by OC.

Yeah, but then they OC and get them back. lol

 

[Darknova]

I voted nVidia, I've always had them, right from the very first GeForce card, except for one time a few years ago when I had a 9600 then a 9800, and they put me off ATi, the drivers were crap, and the picture quality was incredibly lack-luster, I then moved on and got a 6600, and now I have a 7600 GT and I'm very happy with it.

 

[Deleted member 3]

I'm not sure why people choose one side or the other... why would you have brand loyalty at all, the corporations dont care about you the same way you care about them

TPU cares about the users. However if you don't blindly trust TPU...

 

[pt]

TPU cares about the users. However if you don't blindly trust TPU...

is that a threat?

 

[tkpenalty]

I chose ATI because um... since the ATI Rage PRO when I was a little kid (I didn't know shit but I knew there was an ATI Rage PRO installed), I have never owned a nvidia PC. Come to think of it, ATI Rage PRO, ATI Radeon DDR, ATI 9000, ATI 9200SE, ATI 9550, ATI X1950 PRO.


Somehow my cousins never used ATI and most of the time they are suffering from driver screw-ups from nvidia.

 

[Tatty_Two]

I chose, whetever has best price/performance cause being a fanboy is to exspensive a game to play, a fanboy buys his card knowing it may not quite be the best bang for buck but loves the strengths of his card/brand, he kind of overnight forgets about its weaknesses and by the end of the week he is convinced it is the fastest/best in any case, he sees the competitions benchmarks, thinks up all manner of excuses as to why the benches are better than his whilst all along he knows he does not have the fastest card or the card with the best image quality and secretely.....REAL secretely wishes he had bought the competition to get those benches and bragging rights!

There, managed to write all that without mentioning ATi or NVidia.........ooooppppsssss!! Ohhhhh and I own both!

 

[tkpenalty]

ATI, had never made a way behind performing product while nvidia did make a "way behind products", the FX5xxx series, seriously, it was a disgrace to the very name Geforce, how on earth does my 9200SE outperform even a FX5800? It was funny that there were still enthisiasts who tried to keep on nvidia.

 

[mmx]

Lets not forget nvidia's G80, and ati's R600 are directx 10 ...and still no directx 10 games or full M$ support, and no drivers, we will hawe to wait to see the performance in directx 10 games. Whats the point to buy a directx 10 card and we dont know how its going to perform in directx 10 applications??? I know the answer.... its like when nvidia relese the 6xxx series whit SM3 support and HDR, BUT when a you activate HDR in a game it run the game whit 5-10 FPS ...so its pure marketing on both sides. But lets not forgat that G80 is performing extremly well in old games, so thats a red point.
Ill say its to soon to say who has the best highend GPU.

 

[tkpenalty]

hah... nvidia is uninspiring piece of sh*@(*#(@!!!

 

[AshenSugar]

The G80 series is as famous as it is infamous. Sure it's gigantic, sure it's a power hog, sure it runs hot, sure there are almost no aftermarket coolers that fit, sure it's a bit buggy, and sure there's no driver support for anything other than Windows XP x86. The performance speaks for itself, really. If you have a rig 1337 enough for the G80, it's worth every penny. And it's DX10 too .

Now, as to AMD versus NVIDIA. AMD is more realistic, NVIDIA is known for being ahead of schedule with buggy stuff with high performance. That's all there is really.

meaningless, theres no such thing as dx10 till vista comes out, also no such thing till vista dx10 games start comming out!!!!

honestly people buying 8800 ccards simply because they are dx10 makes me laugh, then i cry because i remmber my first "dx9" card....

I am ATI all the way baby. I still haven't forgiven Nvidia for the FX series...... Plus I love the image quality/price.

i hear that, nvidia lost all respect from me when my 5800ultra was curbe stomped by a 9600 256mb(slow card) i mean honestly, a card 1/4 the price that was STOMPING the crap out of a card 4x its price!!!!, also the 9600 was SILENT(passive cooling) the 5800ultra was a first rev with the dustbuster cooler(sounded exectly like an 80's dustbuster)

then i tryed a 6800gt, i sold it and got a x800pro vivo(flashed to xt pe same day i got it) and never looked back, 6800gt had alot of driver flaws, and after 5 revisions of the driver i gave up!!!!!!

I chose, whetever has best price/performance cause being a fanboy is to exspensive a game to play, a fanboy buys his card knowing it may not quite be the best bang for buck but loves the strengths of his card/brand, he kind of overnight forgets about its weaknesses and by the end of the week he is convinced it is the fastest/best in any case, he sees the competitions benchmarks, thinks up all manner of excuses as to why the benches are better than his whilst all along he knows he does not have the fastest card or the card with the best image quality and secretely.....REAL secretely wishes he had bought the competition to get those benches and bragging rights!

There, managed to write all that without mentioning ATi or NVidia.........ooooppppsssss!! Ohhhhh and I own both!

i agree if your an intel fanboi like i was when i payed way to fing much for a 5800ultra then found out it SUCKED ARSE for dx9 games, even early ones...
ati hasnt put out a card thats been drasticly worse for the price then nvidia since the rage128 cards under windows 2k(piss poor driver support that made me hate ati)

nvidia currently is on the loosing end in perf and fetures on all but the 8800 cards, and i dont count them really.

lets look back
9500/9700/9800-9600/9550 vs fx line, fx line looses every time.

x800 vs 6800, in perf 6800 looses, but it has SM3 support hence hdr, but if you use hdr games become slide shows, so thats pointless, ati wins again.
x300/x600/x700 cards are just pci-e versions of the 9550/9600/9800 cards really

then the 7 seirse vs x1k seirse, at the low end nvidia was beeting amd this time, the x1300 and x1600 where slower, but they could do somethings the 6 and 7 seirse cant, hdr+aa, avivo video playback acceleration by gpu(pure video dosnt work properly, gave up trying to get it to work a few weeks ago again)
so 7300 is faster then x1300 but isnt as good for video playback, and isnt THAT much faster then x1300 in games(not really the target of these level cards)

7600 is faster then 1600, by a good bit, but cant do hdr+aa

7800 gets slaped around by the x1800gto/xt equivlants

7900 gets slaped around by the x1900gt/xt

7950 gets slaped around by the x1950pro/xt

so its been a long time since nividia has had a drasticly better card, the gf4 line was better then the ati equivlant for driver support if not perf(close with newer drivers in my exp)
nvidia faultered with the fx line hard tho, fell on their face into a pile of broken glass and rusty scrapnal.

earlyer cards
riva128/tnt/gf1/gf2/gf3 where kinds of their day, nothing ati had was as good across all platforms.
the rage128 was better in windows 98(32bit didnt have neer the perf hit on g128 cores that it had on tnt cores), but ati drivers sucked.

first radeon was plauged by driver problems, same with the 7000 and such, the 8500 was when they finnly started to pull things togather but nvidia was still doing better with drivers!!!!

since then tho its been SAD, my old 8500LE(got it in a pc i payed 30bucks for at a gradge sale) litterly KILLED the 5800ultra i had in dx5/7/8 games, infact i kinda wish i hadnt sold it to a mac user( flashed it to mac version and got 275bucks for it!!!!)

im not a fanboi in this case, i just look at whats avalable for what price and what it can do and whats important to me.

i could have gotten a 7950gx2 if i had wanted, but driver support from nvidia for windows, well IMHO it sucks, has since the fx line when they started comprimising their driver quility to gain performance.

the x1900xtx(flashed my card) gives me better perf then my buddys 7950gx2 anyway and less driver buggs, not to mention, i can acctualy use my avivo, he cant get purevideo to work properly STILL.
oh and i can FOLD on my gpu, something nvidia users cant do (only really important to me because it shows what the cards capable of and what software devs will beable to do with the cards in the future!!!)

as to 7600 vs x1300xt, i would take the 1300xt, better value/fetures imho, and no card in those gens is a true gamers card!!!!!

hell x800xt pe vs 7600gt or 7800gs=x800xt pe anyday, better value (mines in my old box behind me )

 

[Deleted member 3]

is that a threat?

Yes it is.



As for my preference. I'm still hoping Athena will be released and kick some ATI/NV anus. However I feel that it won't get released or will suck by the time it is released.

 

[Tatty_Two]

meaningless, theres no such thing as dx10 till vista comes out, also no such thing till vista dx10 games start comming out!!!!

honestly people buying 8800 ccards simply because they are dx10 makes me laugh, then i cry because i remmber my first "dx9" card....




i hear that, nvidia lost all respect from me when my 5800ultra was curbe stomped by a 9600 256mb(slow card) i mean honestly, a card 1/4 the price that was STOMPING the crap out of a card 4x its price!!!!, also the 9600 was SILENT(passive cooling) the 5800ultra was a first rev with the dustbuster cooler(sounded exectly like an 80's dustbuster)

then i tryed a 6800gt, i sold it and got a x800pro vivo(flashed to xt pe same day i got it) and never looked back, 6800gt had alot of driver flaws, and after 5 revisions of the driver i gave up!!!!!!


i agree if your an intel fanboi like i was when i payed way to fing much for a 5800ultra then found out it SUCKED ARSE for dx9 games, even early ones...
ati hasnt put out a card thats been drasticly worse for the price then nvidia since the rage128 cards under windows 2k(piss poor driver support that made me hate ati)

nvidia currently is on the loosing end in perf and fetures on all but the 8800 cards, and i dont count them really.

lets look back
9500/9700/9800-9600/9550 vs fx line, fx line looses every time.

x800 vs 6800, in perf 6800 looses, but it has SM3 support hence hdr, but if you use hdr games become slide shows, so thats pointless, ati wins again.
x300/x600/x700 cards are just pci-e versions of the 9550/9600/9800 cards really

then the 7 seirse vs x1k seirse, at the low end nvidia was beeting amd this time, the x1300 and x1600 where slower, but they could do somethings the 6 and 7 seirse cant, hdr+aa, avivo video playback acceleration by gpu(pure video dosnt work properly, gave up trying to get it to work a few weeks ago again)
so 7300 is faster then x1300 but isnt as good for video playback, and isnt THAT much faster then x1300 in games(not really the target of these level cards)

7600 is faster then 1600, by a good bit, but cant do hdr+aa

7800 gets slaped around by the x1800gto/xt equivlants

7900 gets slaped around by the x1900gt/xt

7950 gets slaped around by the x1950pro/xt

so its been a long time since nividia has had a drasticly better card, the gf4 line was better then the ati equivlant for driver support if not perf(close with newer drivers in my exp)
nvidia faultered with the fx line hard tho, fell on their face into a pile of broken glass and rusty scrapnal.

earlyer cards
riva128/tnt/gf1/gf2/gf3 where kinds of their day, nothing ati had was as good across all platforms.
the rage128 was better in windows 98(32bit didnt have neer the perf hit on g128 cores that it had on tnt cores), but ati drivers sucked.

first radeon was plauged by driver problems, same with the 7000 and such, the 8500 was when they finnly started to pull things togather but nvidia was still doing better with drivers!!!!

since then tho its been SAD, my old 8500LE(got it in a pc i payed 30bucks for at a gradge sale) litterly KILLED the 5800ultra i had in dx5/7/8 games, infact i kinda wish i hadnt sold it to a mac user( flashed it to mac version and got 275bucks for it!!!!)

im not a fanboi in this case, i just look at whats avalable for what price and what it can do and whats important to me.

i could have gotten a 7950gx2 if i had wanted, but driver support from nvidia for windows, well IMHO it sucks, has since the fx line when they started comprimising their driver quility to gain performance.

the x1900xtx(flashed my card) gives me better perf then my buddys 7950gx2 anyway and less driver buggs, not to mention, i can acctualy use my avivo, he cant get purevideo to work properly STILL.
oh and i can FOLD on my gpu, something nvidia users cant do (only really important to me because it shows what the cards capable of and what software devs will beable to do with the cards in the future!!!)

as to 7600 vs x1300xt, i would take the 1300xt, better value/fetures imho, and no card in those gens is a true gamers card!!!!!

hell x800xt pe vs 7600gt or 7800gs=x800xt pe anyday, better value (mines in my old box behind me )

A lot of good points there, cant argue with most of them however you forgot to mention such little things like ATi lost the plot on release of the 1800 as they did not have the supply on the shelves and therefore the 7800GT/GTX in effect really did best them because by the time the 1800XT for example was readily available the 1900 series was almost upon us as was the 7900 series, of course that does not take anything away from the fact that there were huge problems with the 7900GT and TBH the 1800Xt was and still is to a certain extent an outstanding card.

Also you make comparisons between the 7800 and the 1800GTO......different generations and the 7800 is faster, IMO the 1800GTO was a bit of a dog and a mismatch in marketing terms, the 7600GT almost equalled it and shortly after its release ATi brought out the 1900GT and 1800GTO2 to compete with it. Apart from that tho I think you are pretty well spot on!

 

[AshenSugar]

well the x1800gto thing was from my own exp not just reviews, with aa and af on the lower 7800 cards didnt perform as well, corse i overclocked the crap out of the x1800gto i was testing/setting up next to the 7800card(cheaper 7800, but in same price range at the time)

7600gt dosnt do as well with aa+af or hdr on as the x1800gto, thats something i have seen first hand when testing them side by side for costmers, the x1800gto isnt a great card by any means, but at the time for its price it was a good buy.

and nvidia had that problem with some cards as well, to little supply for to much demand, part of the supply problem with x1800 cards was also that the ships carrying many of them (from asia) took longer then they should have to get here, i got a buddy who works at shipyards neer here, he unloaded cargo containers FULL of ati cards, made me laugh when he jacked a few of them, made me mad when he wouldnt hook me up

but nvidia has had that happen, geforce1/2 cards where ungodly hard to get, i happened to get VERY lucky and got one at compusa when they first came out, i was their the day they got a shipment of gf1 cards(gullemut cards) they got 5 in that shipment they had ordered 50...... didnt get them because no card maker had them in numbers.

also i remmber people scrambing for 7800gtx cards
acctualy saw a fight at comp usa over the last one on the shelf....chick kicked the guy in the balls and took it......i wanted her so bad.......comp chick that kicks arse and is hot......FTW...

but yeah, both amd and nvidia need to not paper launch stuff and make sure that supplys can be on shelves when they are needed.

the x800 and 6800 where both in VERY short supply for like 2 months, nobody could keep them in stock, luckly i got the 6800gt at a local shop that got 8 of them in the day i went looking, and newegg had x800pro vivo's (asus) in stock when i ordered my x800xt pe..i mean pro vivo..

im glad i have a card that will keep me from needing a new one for quite some time to come!!!!! i can sit back for a couple years and wait for mature dx10 cards to become avalable!!!!

 

[tkpenalty]

Yes its true guys, ATI are trying to make a fanbase by making very powerful yet cheap and innovative GPUs. Nvidia just make GPU's PCB's and let manufacturers add stickers or add coolers, I find that quite restrictive. Nvidia used to be so good with getting a great market.

Here's several issues which Nvidia clearly need to improve on:

HDR+AA
Okay this may be a thing of the past with the Shader Model 4.0 Standard coming up soon for games BUT, it is undeniable that Nvidia ignored their customers. I have got to say, this is one of the things which deters me from Nvidia.

HDR is a feature in Shader Model 3.0, one of many bringing intense realism to rather bland graphics, basically realistically washing out and brightening up the images, in accordance to how our eyes react and adjust to the light (that person that you play in CS:S probably has vitamin A & Omega 3 DHA tablets for breakfast )

Shader Model 3.0 was introduced by Nvidia when the 6 Series was introduced and AA and Antiso was something Nvidia was new to but mastered. ATI was already competent but they released the X300,X600,X700,X800 series WITHOUT Shader Model 3.0, which at the time wasn't practical as most games did not have it. ATI's offering was full of raw power and Crossfire seemed like a joke, while Nvidia seemed competent. People were not put off by the fact that HDR + AA could not be performed properly as no GPU could do it yet.

Then ATI Launched it's X1k series and Nvidia Launched its 7 Series. ATI's card were a mixed bag, with the low to mid range cards after some testing proving to have the same cores, with different configurations, however weak they were they could perform HDR+AA competently. ATI's High range cards had the muscle, in this case early in the X1k series the X1800 series. It could perform HDR+AA, but people did not look into that. Early in the 7 Series ALL of the products seemed great. The low end cards would stomp even the Midrange offerings. However disgraceful enough, NVIDIA'S 7 SERIES COULD STILL NOT PERFORM HDR+AA WITHOUT DIFFICULTY. , they had more money to spend
Nvidia had Shader Model 3.0 for TWO Generations, therefore they still haven't fixed one of the major issues that are beginning to eat them away.

Rush Job DX10
G80 was at first thought of something which would blow everyone away. It was a new Series GPU; 8 Series and marked the beginning of DX10. Rumors mystified everyone and to people now it seemed like intimidation...oddly enough ATI Stayed content as if nothing had happened. Not releasing any crazy products that would "probably" dethrone the G80, and since AMD had taken over, their schedule had been more relaxed.
When it was released Nvidia probably forgot about us, the povos. The G80 was obscenely powerful for a single card, but is sometimes outperformed by the Crossfired X1950XTX/X1900XTX. A "Overhaul" in architecture for a high end product usually means revolutionary performance that totally outperforms anything from the past... even Crossfiring two powerful GPUs. Nvidia should learn from past mistakes:
Read the page and you will find some interesting info

Like if ATI were to be "insane" they could make a huge die with the equivalent amount of transistors and new programming, using heaps of power and needing huge amounts of voltage regulations and needing a "stock" cooler equivalent or better than the aftermarket brands; a 8800GTX/GTS makes aftermarket coolers useless; they are virtually the same.
Usually better performing cards use better air coolers but in this case... some companies resorted to the extreme for G80, using the TEC coolers, jacking up the price by a huge amount.

Now if Nvidia did take time and revise the architecture PROPERLY, they would at least have a GPU that uses a bit less power.

EDIT: I think Zalman on G80 = suicide.



Compatability Issues, almost becoming facist after complaints

As you may have heard earlier, Nvidia banned many of its loyal customers and fans after the initial launch of the G80, after complaining about its comapability issues and misleading information on the package, then getting banned for it.
What is up with Nvidia? Its not a new story but many people have been deterred from Nvidia due to this incident.







Problems with ati:

Ati also has its own share of problems usually being very laid back. Either they are too intimidated of they are trying to intimidate.

You are late for the party, R600

When G80 was released everyone expected that ATI would follow through and launch their own offering, the R600. DX10... is the way of the future obviously, however it seems odd to many that ATI are "Stalling". This may be anti-competitive behavior or ATI/AMD just putting the final touches on the R600.

However, there is a risk in taking this decision, as ATI may lose sales and popularity altogether due to the "better" alternative; the G80-but that has not happened yet. It is such a brave act to bide this long and is surely one helluva risky decision, let's face it, the president of AMD probably has steel TITANIUM balls to last this long. Good luck...

(IMO, R600 is going to tear Nvidia on every weakspot of the G80)

X1600pro = X1300XT = X1550XT?

Yes the title says it all. This may be a scam or rename but it probably may as well be a scam. Look, first off the X1300XT and the X1600PRO is the SAME, the manufacturer may decide to use a different type of RAM (Usually DDR2), but it is undeniable that these cards all share the same core and have virtually no difference in performance when matched up with the same type of memory.

Why are they priced differently? Probably to make the more expensive product look superior (not evident to dumbass buyers; thats some of you guys). This is one of the things which may get ATI/AMD a slap on the wrists. Its worse that ATI/AMD even decided to introduce that X1550XT.

However there is only one saving grace, and that is the fact that the X1300 DOES NOT USE GDDR3, and the fact is it uses lesser quality die fabrications. The X1550 and the X1600 use DDR2 or GDDR3 and may use the better silicon fabrications of one sample.

(Funny, anything that ends with 550 can overclock like 50% more)

Just my $1.00 (LOL)

 

[AshenSugar]

ok little correction, hdr isnt a feture of SM3, the commonly used HDR method is FP16 based, and x800 and lower cards dont support FP16, BUT they can do HDR, check out hl2 lost coast for an example, shader based hdr insted of fp16, it works and can look just as good when done correctly!!!!!

ati stated quit some time back(b4 amd took over) that they where timing r600(dx10) to coinside with VISTA, till vistas on the market theres no such thing as dx10, thats why i laugh at ppl who screem "but my 8800 support dx10" , what good does it do you???? there are no dx10 games, theres no dx10 avalable anyway even if a game came out for it.(no vista beta dosnt count!!!!)

 

[Darknova]

I keep hearing everyone say that HDR + AA on an nVidia card is a problem...yet I have both activated, and I only get a drop of 3-7fps when I enable HDR...do I have some kind of mutant card or something?

 

[AshenSugar]

hdr dissables AA on fp16 hdr games(anything but hl2 lost coast), its IMPOSSABLE for nvidia 6/7 cards to do fp16 HDR+AA, the same part of the chip is used for both.

so unless all you play is halflife2 lost coast/cs:s hdr your not getting hdr+aa at all you get one or the other PERIOD!!!!

 

[AshenSugar]

oh and i wana point out that under farcry 1.4 patch ati users can add hdr to AA or AA to HDR without loosing any extra perf, combinding them is FREE!!!!!
kicks arse