• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

AMD Still Committed To x86 - But Not In High End Desktop

Joined
Aug 11, 2011
Messages
4,355 (0.95/day)
Location
Mexico
System Name Dell-y Driver
Processor Core i5-10400
Motherboard Asrock H410M-HVS
Cooling Intel 95w stock cooler
Memory 2x8 A-DATA 2999Mhz DDR4
Video Card(s) UHD 630
Storage 1TB WD Green M.2 - 4TB Seagate Barracuda
Display(s) Asus PA248 1920x1200 IPS
Case Dell Vostro 270S case
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Dell 220w
Software Windows 10 64bit
Joined
Mar 24, 2011
Messages
2,356 (0.50/day)
Location
VT
Processor Intel i7-10700k
Motherboard Gigabyte Aurorus Ultra z490
Cooling Corsair H100i RGB
Memory 32GB (4x8GB) Corsair Vengeance DDR4-3200MHz
Video Card(s) MSI Gaming Trio X 3070 LHR
Display(s) ASUS MG278Q / AOC G2590FX
Case Corsair X4000 iCue
Audio Device(s) Onboard
Power Supply Corsair RM650x 650W Fully Modular
Software Windows 10
Let me make something clear, Intel having a majority stake or even a monopoly on high-end desktop CPU's will NOT make Intel CPU's cost a bazillion dollars as everyone is implying. Let me explain why.

By having a Monopoly in something like Oil or Power, you have a commodity that people will always need, and in regular intervals. That means if you increase the price, they probably are required to continue paying that increased price, and since Oil and Power are consumable goods, you need to keep paying for the same thing. Since the company controls the entirety of supply will always exist, they control the entire market and the price causing the consumer to lose out.

CPU's are NOT NOT NOT the same. Intel cannot force you to buy a new CPU every 6 months, they have to entice you to, or the demand needs to be there. People are claiming a monopoly will mean Intel can keep selling the same product for very high prices, but that's just not true. People will need more performance, and if they can't get it from a "newer" CPU, then they have no reason to buy it unless their current CPU dies, but in that scenario they would have to get a new CPU regardless.

There's also the fact that AMD will continue to offer better products, so if Intel continued to sell the same exact product for a high price, eventually AMD's mid-level products for substantially cheaper would be equal to or close enough in performance to justify buying them. Then there's the part where if Intel doesn't offer better products continually, nobody would have a reason to upgrade their computers\CPU's, and Intel's revenue would tank.

All of this talk of Intel having a "monopoly" (still not sure it really constitutes one) on the High-End Desktop CPU market causing huge increases in Price and Innovation is absolutely ridiculous.
 

cdawall

where the hell are my stars
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
27,680 (4.29/day)
Location
Houston
System Name All the cores
Processor 2990WX
Motherboard Asrock X399M
Cooling CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory 4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage 2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard Keychron K8
Software W10P
Iintel lready charges $1000+ for highend chips that's pretty damn steep IMO I see that only going up. No they can't force you to upgrade every 6 months but people do constantly hell I was popping new chips in once a month not to long ago.
 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.81/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
Iintel lready charges $1000+ for highend chips that's pretty damn steep IMO I see that only going up. No they can't force you to upgrade every 6 months but people do constantly hell I was popping new chips in once a month not to long ago.

AMD also charges $1000 for high end chips when they can. Intel didn't raise the prices to $1000 when AMD couldn't compete anymore. Top end chips have always been right around the $1000 mark from both camps.

Seeing as AMD cannot compete up top, but Intel still charges the same for the top end as it did when there was competition up there, I'd say your assessment in incorrect.
 

cdawall

where the hell are my stars
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
27,680 (4.29/day)
Location
Houston
System Name All the cores
Processor 2990WX
Motherboard Asrock X399M
Cooling CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory 4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage 2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard Keychron K8
Software W10P
AMD also charges $1000 for high end chips when they can. Intel didn't raise the prices to $1000 when AMD couldn't compete anymore. Top end chips have always been right around the $1000 mark from both camps.

Seeing as AMD cannot compete up top, but Intel still charges the same for the top end as it did when there was competition up there, I'd say your assessment in incorrect.

They have been slowly sneaking up originally we were seeing around $999 on release for a 990X. They are now $1199 on release day and still haven't dropped to $999 for a 3960X. While $200 in the scheme of things doesn't seem like much it does happen to be the cost of an entire Phenom X6. So they have gone up 20% in fact. Albiet intel's ARK lists $999 for both chips right now :/ who knows maybe they will stay the same. I honestly don't care anymore they don't offer enough performance benefits worth more than double the price of an average CPU.
 

mediasorcerer

New Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2011
Messages
978 (0.21/day)
Location
coast ,melbourne
System Name THE MEDIAMACHINE
Processor i5-3570k
Motherboard Asus gene v z-77 matx.
Cooling Antec h20 620
Memory 2x4gb g.skill ripjaws z 2400
Video Card(s) h.i.s radeon 7950 reference 3 gb- hooray!!!
Storage samsung 128gb~830 ssd. samsung 500gb hdrive.
Display(s) 22 inch tele.
Case circa 1996 grey rat box with no sides front.until my own is finished
Audio Device(s) inbuilt creative.supreme effects 3
Power Supply thermaltake tt-500w
Software win 7 x64-
Benchmark Scores Coming soon
WTF with taking sides? intel or amd=all good for the consumer= us, anyone get that?

Worst thing that could happen is one company having a total monopoly on chips.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.32/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
+1 n amen and all that bang for buck and anyway both companys have the ability to shine or suck asss i expect more shine from amd soon as trinity looks promising and thats still x86 and BD is selling out their not ,not going to make more are they.
 
T

twilyth

Guest
What no one is taking into account is the fact that there are several billion people in India, China, Brazil etc. who have no interest whatsoever in enthusiast hardware. They want basic access to information and smart phones only get you so far.

Here are some charts from Barclays and intel.


 

Wile E

Power User
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
24,318 (3.81/day)
System Name The ClusterF**k
Processor 980X @ 4Ghz
Motherboard Gigabyte GA-EX58-UD5 BIOS F12
Cooling MCR-320, DDC-1 pump w/Bitspower res top (1/2" fittings), Koolance CPU-360
Memory 3x2GB Mushkin Redlines 1600Mhz 6-8-6-24 1T
Video Card(s) Evga GTX 580
Storage Corsair Neutron GTX 240GB, 2xSeagate 320GB RAID0; 2xSeagate 3TB; 2xSamsung 2TB; Samsung 1.5TB
Display(s) HP LP2475w 24" 1920x1200 IPS
Case Technofront Bench Station
Audio Device(s) Auzentech X-Fi Forte into Onkyo SR606 and Polk TSi200's + RM6750
Power Supply ENERMAX Galaxy EVO EGX1250EWT 1250W
Software Win7 Ultimate N x64, OSX 10.8.4
They have been slowly sneaking up originally we were seeing around $999 on release for a 990X. They are now $1199 on release day and still haven't dropped to $999 for a 3960X. While $200 in the scheme of things doesn't seem like much it does happen to be the cost of an entire Phenom X6. So they have gone up 20% in fact. Albiet intel's ARK lists $999 for both chips right now :/ who knows maybe they will stay the same. I honestly don't care anymore they don't offer enough performance benefits worth more than double the price of an average CPU.

Retailers marking up the CPU has absolutely nothing to do with Intel raising prices. The MSRP is still $999. Intel has not changed what they charge. Retailers are just taking advantage of consumers. Car dealers do the same bullshit with in demand cars as well, but nobody blames the car maker when a car sells for $10k over sticker.

Some FX chips were going for $1200 or more back when AMD was on top, but the MSRP was still $1000.

Short version = you have not made a valid point.
 

cdawall

where the hell are my stars
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
27,680 (4.29/day)
Location
Houston
System Name All the cores
Processor 2990WX
Motherboard Asrock X399M
Cooling CPU-XSPC RayStorm Neo, 2x240mm+360mm, D5PWM+140mL, GPU-2x360mm, 2xbyski, D4+D5+100mL
Memory 4x16GB G.Skill 3600
Video Card(s) (2) EVGA SC BLACK 1080Ti's
Storage 2x Samsung SM951 512GB, Samsung PM961 512GB
Display(s) Dell UP2414Q 3840X2160@60hz
Case Caselabs Mercury S5+pedestal
Audio Device(s) Fischer HA-02->Fischer FA-002W High edition/FA-003/Jubilate/FA-011 depending on my mood
Power Supply Seasonic Prime 1200w
Mouse Thermaltake Theron, Steam controller
Keyboard Keychron K8
Software W10P
Retailers marking up the CPU has absolutely nothing to do with Intel raising prices. The MSRP is still $999. Intel has not changed what they charge. Retailers are just taking advantage of consumers. Car dealers do the same bullshit with in demand cars as well, but nobody blames the car maker when a car sells for $10k over sticker.

Some FX chips were going for $1200 or more back when AMD was on top, but the MSRP was still $1000.

Short version = you have not made a valid point.
And I admitted that.
 
Joined
Feb 24, 2009
Messages
3,516 (0.64/day)
System Name Money Hole
Processor Core i7 970
Motherboard Asus P6T6 WS Revolution
Cooling Noctua UH-D14
Memory 2133Mhz 12GB (3x4GB) Mushkin 998991
Video Card(s) Sapphire Tri-X OC R9 290X
Storage Samsung 1TB 850 Evo
Display(s) 3x Acer KG240A 144hz
Case CM HAF 932
Audio Device(s) ADI (onboard)
Power Supply Enermax Revolution 85+ 1050w
Mouse Logitech G602
Keyboard Logitech G710+
Software Windows 10 Professional x64
Let me make something clear, Intel having a majority stake or even a monopoly on high-end desktop CPU's will NOT make Intel CPU's cost a bazillion dollars as everyone is implying. Let me explain why.

By having a Monopoly in something like Oil or Power, you have a commodity that people will always need, and in regular intervals. That means if you increase the price, they probably are required to continue paying that increased price, and since Oil and Power are consumable goods, you need to keep paying for the same thing. Since the company controls the entirety of supply will always exist, they control the entire market and the price causing the consumer to lose out.

CPU's are NOT NOT NOT the same. Intel cannot force you to buy a new CPU every 6 months, they have to entice you to, or the demand needs to be there. People are claiming a monopoly will mean Intel can keep selling the same product for very high prices, but that's just not true. People will need more performance, and if they can't get it from a "newer" CPU, then they have no reason to buy it unless their current CPU dies, but in that scenario they would have to get a new CPU regardless.

There's also the fact that AMD will continue to offer better products, so if Intel continued to sell the same exact product for a high price, eventually AMD's mid-level products for substantially cheaper would be equal to or close enough in performance to justify buying them. Then there's the part where if Intel doesn't offer better products continually, nobody would have a reason to upgrade their computers\CPU's, and Intel's revenue would tank.

All of this talk of Intel having a "monopoly" (still not sure it really constitutes one) on the High-End Desktop CPU market causing huge increases in Price and Innovation is absolutely ridiculous.

There is another monopoly that happens outside of the one you listed. It happens when entrance in to the market is so high that it is out of the realm of any business to enter the market.
 

qubit

Overclocked quantum bit
Joined
Dec 6, 2007
Messages
17,866 (3.00/day)
Location
Quantum Well UK
System Name Quantumville™
Processor Intel Core i7-2700K @ 4GHz
Motherboard Asus P8Z68-V PRO/GEN3
Cooling Noctua NH-D14
Memory 16GB (2 x 8GB Corsair Vengeance Black DDR3 PC3-12800 C9 1600MHz)
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2080 SUPER Gaming X Trio
Storage Samsung 850 Pro 256GB | WD Black 4TB | WD Blue 6TB
Display(s) ASUS ROG Strix XG27UQR (4K, 144Hz, G-SYNC compatible) | Asus MG28UQ (4K, 60Hz, FreeSync compatible)
Case Cooler Master HAF 922
Audio Device(s) Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi Fatal1ty PCIe
Power Supply Corsair AX1600i
Mouse Microsoft Intellimouse Pro - Black Shadow
Keyboard Yes
Software Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
Let me make something clear, Intel having a majority stake or even a monopoly on high-end desktop CPU's will NOT make Intel CPU's cost a bazillion dollars as everyone is implying. Let me explain why.

By having a Monopoly in something like Oil or Power, you have a commodity that people will always need, and in regular intervals. That means if you increase the price, they probably are required to continue paying that increased price, and since Oil and Power are consumable goods, you need to keep paying for the same thing. Since the company controls the entirety of supply will always exist, they control the entire market and the price causing the consumer to lose out.

CPU's are NOT NOT NOT the same. Intel cannot force you to buy a new CPU every 6 months, they have to entice you to, or the demand needs to be there. People are claiming a monopoly will mean Intel can keep selling the same product for very high prices, but that's just not true. People will need more performance, and if they can't get it from a "newer" CPU, then they have no reason to buy it unless their current CPU dies, but in that scenario they would have to get a new CPU regardless.

There's also the fact that AMD will continue to offer better products, so if Intel continued to sell the same exact product for a high price, eventually AMD's mid-level products for substantially cheaper would be equal to or close enough in performance to justify buying them. Then there's the part where if Intel doesn't offer better products continually, nobody would have a reason to upgrade their computers\CPU's, and Intel's revenue would tank.

All of this talk of Intel having a "monopoly" (still not sure it really constitutes one) on the High-End Desktop CPU market causing huge increases in Price and Innovation is absolutely ridiculous.

I think that's a really good explanation for why Intel needs to keep inovating, even without any competition and prices can't just keep shooting up. However, a monopoly would still allow them to price their products appreciably higher, even though tempered somewhat. I reckon they could get away with a 50% hike, quite easily.
 
Joined
Mar 10, 2010
Messages
11,878 (2.32/day)
Location
Manchester uk
System Name RyzenGtEvo/ Asus strix scar II
Processor Amd R5 5900X/ Intel 8750H
Motherboard Crosshair hero8 impact/Asus
Cooling 360EK extreme rad+ 360$EK slim all push, cpu ek suprim Gpu full cover all EK
Memory Corsair Vengeance Rgb pro 3600cas14 16Gb in four sticks./16Gb/16GB
Video Card(s) Powercolour RX7900XT Reference/Rtx 2060
Storage Silicon power 2TB nvme/8Tb external/1Tb samsung Evo nvme 2Tb sata ssd/1Tb nvme
Display(s) Samsung UAE28"850R 4k freesync.dell shiter
Case Lianli 011 dynamic/strix scar2
Audio Device(s) Xfi creative 7.1 on board ,Yamaha dts av setup, corsair void pro headset
Power Supply corsair 1200Hxi/Asus stock
Mouse Roccat Kova/ Logitech G wireless
Keyboard Roccat Aimo 120
VR HMD Oculus rift
Software Win 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores 8726 vega 3dmark timespy/ laptop Timespy 6506
there are other fronts in this war, nvidia is pulling a 5core with gpu arm chip from somewhere soon and AMD has its APU,s allready in place with trinity on the way on die gpu assisted processing could easily make up the gap between what appears a low performance part into compareing against intels finest its about the software and optimisations these days and intel are doing nothing to assist their future leverage in an arm equiped world and with arm 64 on the way with hpc capabillities hmm interesting times
 
Top