AMD Throwing the Gauntlet at Intel for releasing biased & unreliable benches.

[OneMoar]

the stock intel cooler under prime will easily hit 80 to 100c (don't believe me search this board for "high cpu temps or "are my temperatures ok' at least once a week we get somebody posting with temps and using the stock cooler

under nominal(gaming) load expect temps in the high 60s to low 70's

and its not just about what the max temp is temperature affects the cpu's ability to turbo the lower the temp the longer/more cores will turbo
at this point ...

 

[suraswami]

the stock intel cooler under prime will easily hit 80 to 100c (don't believe me search this board for "high cpu temps or "are my temperatures ok' at least once a week we get somebody posting with temps and using the stock cooler

under nominal(gaming) load expect temps in the high 60s to low 70's

and its not just about what the max temp is temperature affects the cpu's ability to turbo the lower the temp the longer/more cores will turbo
at this point ...

Lol that's not even a horse!!

 

[Kanan]

Zen's new marketing:

"AMD Zen - 9 Out Of 10 People Can't Tell It Isn't An Intel!*"
*In Microsoft Excel



Just because it has "real" cores doesn't mean it can't be a performance disappointment. The original Phenom was "real" cores and it was pretty disappointing. Though I am hopeful for Zen, Jim Keller being a part of the design is a very good sign.

The original Phenom (Phenom I) yeah, because it had a bug where they had to disable some of the L3 cache - also it had anyway too few L3 cache and it was clocked low. Phenom II solved all these problems though. I'm hopeful for Zen too, I think it will be a good enough design to get AMD some market share back. At least AMD posted some schematics of Zen and one time said "it performs as expected". Well that's just words, but the architecture on the schematics seemed like an Sandy Bridge copy, at least some of the folks here commented that.

another problem about AMD is their CPU coolers.I dunno why but it look really microscopic compared to Intel's if u ask me & they're terrible at keeping temps at bay for an already hot processor chip. Intel's stock cooler at the very least has big surface area & large fan to keep their chips cool.

With that comment you outed yourself as an Intel fanboy, if it even wasn't for the 100 other Intel-biased comments you made here - and the thread itself and its whole reason. Everything anti-AMD-hating, nothing of real importance. Even the slightest informed knows that AMD stock coolers are a LOT better than Intel ones, but nice try anway. Btw. heard of the Wraith cooler? Or of the AIO water coolers AMD boxes with their 9590 CPUs? Does Intel have heatpipe coolers? 3x No. The obvious problem why Intel stock coolers are so bad, is, Intel is so big and powerful, they can just do it and get away with it. Simply. And same reason why AMD can't do it, their power is pretty limited and always was.

Yeah right. And you call me ignorant? Did you even notice I specifically said (I will bold it this time for you), "Intel isn't even in the discrete (graphics card) GPU business." Got a link to a current, PCIe Intel graphics card?
Ah! I see. So it is okay for you to run a topic OT as long as it suits you. But for me to use "selecting PSUs" as an example (NOT a OT topic) for buying a graphics is not okay because it does not suit you. Right. And you call me arrogant?

Don't hurt your head when rolling on the ground (seemed it happened already). lol I know you said "discrete", it's not important and I adressed it even. Can't read? And I'm ignorant? Cool. And no, PSUs are obviously totally misplaced here as an argument because it has nothing to do with CPUs, GPUs have to do with CPUs at least a bit, PSUs - no.

I am not ashamed of any thing I said. Nor did I say anything that was in error - so nothing to admit too.
No more of your name calling! That would be wonderful. Thank you. And I will not respond to your personal affronts any more either.

You are just the guy with over 40 years experience and a God complex or "I know everything better than any other person here"-complex, obviously the same. Am I the only person having problems with your statements, no, more like every 2nd person here. Btw. you strike me as kinda Intel-fanboyish, you are most likely the only person on earth that defends their crappy boxed coolers, and most certainly only person who thinks they got better over time. hahaha, but thanks for the good laugh this late hour.

 

[dorsetknob]

The obvious problem why Intel stock coolers are so bad,

i suggest its that as intel's CPU's consume less power over successive generations
its the Cost cutting Accountants / nickel and dime Bastards that are Driving the slimming down of intel coolers

It Cost less to push out a cooler with no Copper insert or a smaller lighter copper insert
and less fin area and as long as its Adequate at its job this cuts Intel manufacturing costs allowing them to maintain or increase profits

Give the customer less and charge the same or more its the corporate way

PS AMD are no Better either

 

[Kanan]

i suggest its that as intel's CPU's consume less power over successive generations
its the Cost cutting Accountants / nickel and dime Bastards that are Driving the slimming down of intel coolers

It Cost less to push out a cooler with no Copper insert or a smaller lighter copper insert
and less fin area and as long as its Adequate at its job this cuts Intel manufacturing costs allowing them to maintain or increase profits

Give the customer less and charge the same or more its the corporate way

PS AMD are no Better either

True. And btw. I have to admit, some AMD coolers are shit too - I have a A10 7850K boxed cooler here behind me and like the A8 3870K cooler I had here too, it's crap. Basically all their APU coolers are too bad for their APUs to run smooth at 100% (only aluminium in the coolers). That's why I didn't use them and directly bought aftercoolers for the PCs I built up for my uncles. However I had some good AMD coolers too, my A64 X2 3800+ boxed cooler was really good, I was able to overclock with it up to 40% (2000 -> 2800 MHz), or let's say to the limit I could do with my Ram (200 -> 240 FSB) and it wasn't really loud either. The cooler boxed with my Phenom II 940 was good enough too, it had 2 heatpipes, so obviously a lot of copper compared to the Intel solutions. Obviously it's a matter of what CPUs you buy from AMD, but let's say, if you buy a highend CPU from AMD you will have a good boxed cooler with it. If you buy a APU, basically not. I'm not so sure about the lower FX CPUs, but I know the ones boxed with 8350 9590 (AIO water) 6300 etc are good enough. But if you buy a Intel CPU it doesn't matter much, all their coolers are basically somewhat bad, I don't say they are "too" bad, but I wouldn't say they are good when they handycap the turbo of the CPU.

 

[newtekie1]

The original Phenom (Phenom I) yeah, because it had a bug where they had to disable some of the L3 cache - also it had anyway too few L3 cache and it was clocked low.

Even before the bug the performance was disappointing, the bug just makes it worse.

Phenom II solved all these problems though.

It did, but that wasn't my point. My point was that just because they are full real cores that doesn't mean the performance won't be disappointing. AMD could still screw it up, it is possible. I'm hoping they don't, but it is possible.

Even the slightest informed knows that AMD stock coolers are a LOT better than Intel ones, but nice try anway.

I'd say the heatpipe cooler is better than anything Intel puts out today, but you only get that with a select few processors, the 125w AM3+ processors. Everything else comes with a crappy aluminium block cooler, which is worse than some of Intel's coolers, and about the same as others. Even their high end APUs come with a crappy all aluminum heatsink.

Btw. heard of the Wraith cooler? Or of the AIO water coolers AMD boxes with their 9590 CPUs? Does Intel have heatpipe coolers? 3x No.

I suspect, just like the current heatpipe cooler, the Wraith is only going to come with a select few processors. Most will continue to get the crappy AMD heatsink, not the heatpipe/wraith.

And Intel has had their own AiO stock liquid coolers too over the years.

Oh, and lets not forget this bad boy Intel bundled with some of their processors 6 years ago:

(I'd like to see Bill_Bright explain how the current stock coolers are better than this, maybe it is his special alloy)

The obvious problem why Intel stock coolers are so bad, is, Intel is so big and powerful, they can just do it and get away with it.

Intel gets away with it because their stock cooler is good enough for stock use. They don't need to do anything better.

And same reason why AMD can't do it, their power is pretty limited and always was.

AMD isn't any better. The cooler that most of their processors comes with is just as bad as Intel's.

 

[cdawall]

(I'd like to see Bill_Bright explain how the current stock coolers are better than this, maybe it is his special alloy)

magic

 

[OneMoar]

magic

naa its gotta be ponies
its hilarious how amd is trying to convince people that there new "wraith'' cooler is something awesome
its the same god dam cooler with 15 more press fit fins and a shitty high-blade pitch low rpm static speed fan
fucking trash ... no enthusiast or OEM would be caught dead with that garbage on there cpu
if AMD wanted to impress they should have completely redesigned the cooler with a two level heat pipe array

 

[cdawall]

naa its gotta be ponies
its hilarious how amd is trying to convince people that there new "wraith'' cooler is something awesome
its the same god dam cooler with 15 more press fit fins and a shitty high-blade pitch low rpm static speed fan
fucking trash ... no enthusiast or OEM would be caught dead with that garbage on there cpu
if AMD wanted to impress they should have completely redesigned the cooler with a two level heat pipe array

They just want their name in the news. Nothing more nothing less all press is good press remember.

 

[newtekie1]

its the same god dam cooler with 15 more press fit fins and a shitty high-blade pitch low rpm static speed fan

So basically the FX-60 cooler, but with a fancy light. But they've improved so much in the last 10 years!

 

[cdawall]

So basically the FX-60 cooler, but with a fancy light. But they've improved so much in the last 10 years!

Hey now it has a larger fan

 

[OneMoar]

Hey now it has a larger fan

and more chintzy fins O and to save weight they removed fan control

 

[newtekie1]

Hey now it has a larger fan

Not really compared to the FX-60 cooler, it had a thick 80mm fan on it too. It was later that they changed to the thin 60mm fan that was a lot louder.

This was the original heatpipe cooler.

 

[trog100]

"Intel gets away with it because their stock cooler is good enough for stock use. They don't need to do anything better."

that about sums it up.. they do what they are intended to do.. reliably keep an intel cpu at temps that will not do any harm or shorten its life..

what the f-ck more are they supposed to do.. the only problem i see here is that some just cant grasp the simple fact that the temps intel seem to think are okay are actually okay for real.. intel design their chips and coolers to work up to 100 C..

my stock 4790K with its stock intel cooler running small block prime95 quite easily hit 100 C and throttled.. i would guess pretty much as intel intended.. why some have problems with this i havnt a clue.. quite clearly intel are not having problems..

the "enthusiast" game seems to have two main components.. one is run a cpu faster than intel intend it to be run at and the other is to run a cpu cooler than intel intend it to be run at..

nether component matters one jot to the vast majority of people that buy or use intel based systems.. dare i call such people "normal".. all "normal" people want is for the bloody things to work.. being as they do work what is the problem..

old cpus never die they just get thrown away.. the cpu is probably the most long lasting part of a PC..

trog

 

[cdawall]

my stock 4790K with its stock intel cooler running small block prime95 quite easily hit 100 C and throttled.. i would guess pretty much as intel intended.. why some have problems with this i havnt a clue.. quite clearly intel are not having problems..

Wait what? So it can't run programs and that's ok

Not really compared to the FX-60 cooler, it had a thick 80mm fan on it too. It was later that they changed to the thin 60mm fan that was a lot louder.

This was the original heatpipe cooler.

I always forget that little bastard was different. I still think the wraith is thicker.

 

[HumanSmoke]

Wait what? So it can't run programs and that's ok

Come on, stop baiting the guy. How many people do you know that run small FFT Prime95 as anything other than a stress test? Next thing you'll be telling us your favourite entertainment is watching LinX running.

I think you'll find that the Intel HSF isn't the only cooler that allows operation up to the chips design specification. Doesn't the reference 290/290X at default do much the same thing at ~95C ?

 

[OneMoar]

look familiar

 

[suraswami]

Not really compared to the FX-60 cooler, it had a thick 80mm fan on it too. It was later that they changed to the thin 60mm fan that was a lot louder.

This was the original heatpipe cooler.

Those coolers too had 2 or more fan manufacturers, CM was the best with low noise, even the later 60mm the CM was best. I even pulled out a loud fan (for a friend) and replaced a spare CM fan that came with my cooler (didn't use it, I went AIO).

 

[trog100]

"Wait what? So it can't run programs and that's ok"

prime95 is pretty much only used as a stress tester.. sometimes used as cooler comparison tester.. if i run it now with my pretty good top flow cooler and de-lided chip with the case side off (just to make it hard for you) i will still see over 85 C or close to 65 C over room ambient..

4790k at 4.6 gig 1.26 vcore chip delidded 3 C over room ambient while browsing.. up to 65 C over room ambient running silly programs like prime95..

intels own burn in test will do pretty much the same thing.. time you figured out the purpose of certain programs.. they are designed to torture a chip and they do..

anyone that lives in hotter climes without aircon will see much higher tempts than i do no matter what cooler is used.. tis what boost and temp throttling is all about..

the only point i am trying to make is that over cooling goes along with overclocking.. as for bill and his 40 C all i can say is nonsense.. said in a polite way of course..

trog

 

[Kanan]

Even before the bug the performance was disappointing, the bug just makes it worse.



It did, but that wasn't my point. My point was that just because they are full real cores that doesn't mean the performance won't be disappointing. AMD could still screw it up, it is possible. I'm hoping they don't, but it is possible.

Yeah like I said, clocks were bad too with Phenom I. Yeah of course they could screw it up, always a possibility, but I think they are not lying when they say "it performs as expected" - other than this there are a lot of facts that make it hard to believe it will be a failure again. Plus it's this time: do it or go away. No more failures allowed. I think they must and they will deliver this time, with Zen.

I'd say the heatpipe cooler is better than anything Intel puts out today, but you only get that with a select few processors, the 125w AM3+ processors. Everything else comes with a crappy aluminium block cooler, which is worse than some of Intel's coolers, and about the same as others. Even their high end APUs come with a crappy all aluminum heatsink.

True, I suspected as much.

I suspect, just like the current heatpipe cooler, the Wraith is only going to come with a select few processors. Most will continue to get the crappy AMD heatsink, not the heatpipe/wraith.

Well that was to be expected, I guess.

And Intel has had their own AiO stock liquid coolers too over the years.

I totally forgot about that, I think it was bundled with their 6 cores, or was at least recommended to be used with them? That's why the 3930K or 3960X for example was always WOF, their stock coolers would simply be overwhelmed by the high TDP of it.

Oh, and lets not forget this bad boy Intel bundled with some of their processors 6 years ago:

(I'd like to see Bill_Bright explain how the current stock coolers are better than this, maybe it is his special alloy)

hahaha, forgot that too. Was it bundled with 1st gen i7? Or just the 6 core parts? I can't remember exactly.

Intel gets away with it because their stock cooler is good enough for stock use. They don't need to do anything better.

Well if a CPU can't really turbo or gets handycapped doing it, it's not exactly working as intended I'd say, but this is open to point of view.

AMD isn't any better. The cooler that most of their processors comes with is just as bad as Intel's.

I guess with the wraith cooler they will be better. Also Intel has no AIO water cooling (now), AMD has.

naa its gotta be ponies
its hilarious how amd is trying to convince people that there new "wraith'' cooler is something awesome
its the same god dam cooler with 15 more press fit fins and a shitty high-blade pitch low rpm static speed fan
fucking trash ... no enthusiast or OEM would be caught dead with that garbage on there cpu
if AMD wanted to impress they should have completely redesigned the cooler with a two level heat pipe array

I don't think they did that. They just made a video that proved it's a lot better than their old boxed coolers and that's it. Nobody at AMD said it's something "awesome". But it's good enough (for a free boxed cooler), we should admit that at least.

 

[newtekie1]

hahaha, forgot that too. Was it bundled with 1st gen i7? Or just the 6 core parts? I can't remember exactly.

It started coming with the 980x, and continued through the first generation of 2011 processors.

Well if a CPU can't really turbo or gets handycapped doing it, it's not exactly working as intended I'd say, but this is open to point of view.

Turbo is supposed to be a quick boost, and that is what it does with the stock cooler. The processor isn't intended to run a full turbo speed for long periods of time. With the stock cooler the processor will turbo, but then settle back down to the rated clock speed if the load goes on for a while. AMD's processors do this with their stock heatsinks as well.

I guess with the wraith cooler they will be better. Also Intel has no AIO water cooling (now), AMD has.

Not if they only bundle it with the high end processors like they do now. Plus, Wraith seems like a noise improvement and not really a cooling performance improvement. But then again, maybe Zen will put out less heat.

 

[Kanan]

Not if they only bundle it with the high end processors like they do now. Plus, Wraith seems like a noise improvement and not really a cooling performance improvement. But then again, maybe Zen will put out less heat.

Still, Intel doesn't bother with having a "premium" cooler for their top end CPUs, AMD does. That IS better I'd say. And of course it's a noise improvement AND a performance improvement, because they can run on higher RPMs too, the fan is simply bigger, the cooler itself, better. So it must be better performing, simply.

 

[RCoon]

A whole page about stock coolers, stemming from a thread that's originally about Intel receiving "hackusations" from AMD because of synthetic benchmarks.

This place is starting to look like the YouTube comments section.

 

[newtekie1]

Still, Intel doesn't bother with having a "premium" cooler for their top end CPUs, AMD does.

AMD doesn't bundle any heatsink with their top end CPUs. Just like Intel. The only reason the heatpipe cooler is bundled with some processors is because it is necessary to cool them. If AMD could use the crappy heatsink, they would, and do.

hat IS better I'd say. And of course it's a noise improvement AND a performance improvement, because they can run on higher RPMs too, the fan is simply bigger, the cooler itself, better. So it must be better performing, simply.

The fan doesn't get faster, they demoed it a full speed, it is slow. That is how they managed to keep it quiet.

 

[cdawall]

Amd does offer the 9370/9590 with an aio watercooler