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GK104 Faster then the HD7970! But not really???

Discussion in 'Graphics Cards' started by 20mmrain, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. 20mmrain

    20mmrain

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    So I always don't put much stock into what Charlie at Semiaccurate.com says. But this article did make a little sense to me. Not only did it make a lot sense to me but It I found it very interesting. I also found it quite possibly true. Read it check it out and leave some comments.....

    http://semiaccurate.com/2012/02/01/physics-hardware-makes-keplergk104-fast/

    If this is true I guess the bad news is I don't see the GK104 being enough to drive AMD HD7970 prices down. Also while I do understand the thought process behind Nvidia's business model here. I am still not sure if I agree with the way they would be going about it.
    If this is really the new era of video cards we are going into..... (Some would argue it's been this way for awhile) then I must say we will have to start building our systems around the games we want to play. Which I don't agree with at at all.
  2. Crap Daddy

    Crap Daddy

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    That's a good advice from Charlie regarding his own article.
  3. 20mmrain

    20mmrain

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    Agreed Like I said in my very first sentence I don't often take a lot of stock into what Charlie says. But with that out of the way. He is sometimes correct. He has also been correct on enough things that I do believe he really does have contacts in some certain places. Whether he is actually using them here or just making up this story still has to be seen. But something tells me that this is more plausible then not.
  4. happita

    happita

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    I wouldn't be surprised if this article was true. Nvidia did have around 4-5 months of extra time in order to refine Kepler. It all depends on the price now, which I'm sure will be the old-fashioned >$600 for their flagship card :banghead:
  5. 20mmrain

    20mmrain

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    Although I don't believe the GK104 is supposed to be their flag ship card. I believe it supposed to compete more with the HD7950/HD7870.

    Here's one thing I noticed though with this. Who cares if I can play PhysX games at 1000FPS most of them are old or not all that exciting. Only a couple come to mind that are all that great and most of them have been released for quite some time already.
    Even if this is not only limited to just PhysX which I am sure it won't be....does that mean ever other game that I want to play that is not optimized for Nvidia will just run like shit on kepler?
  6. phanbuey

    phanbuey

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    you're thinking of the GK114
  7. erocker

    erocker Super Moderator Staff Member

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    They've fallen behind. By the time they release their "flagship" card, AMD will be just abot ready to launch their next series. We still don't have an actual timeframe for any new Nvidia card. Then again, things can change very quickly as far as these things go.
  8. m1dg3t

    m1dg3t

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    Isn't that the same guy who was spreading lie's a couple week's back? In any event untill i see one being reviewed i'll believe nothing anyone say's about it. Afterall we're talkin' about Nvidia here, seem's like someone is trying to take a bite out of AMd's sale's. AGAIN :laugh:
  9. 20mmrain

    20mmrain

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    No I believe you are thinking of couple of different rumors that were going around recently. (Examples HD7980 with 4000 shaders due on april 1st and the other 7980 toxic on sapphires card list as well as other rumors) Charlie had nothing to do with those that I am aware of. He has been involved with other instances of planting what some believe as misinformation. But this round so far has not been one of those instances.
    I guess what also leads me to believe this to be more true then false is the specifics he seemed to have rattled off here. They are not too outlandish and seemed to be pretty precise. Or at least as precise as the NDA will allow someone to be.
    Not to mention the time Charlie has been accused to give out false information it has been in AMD/ATI's favor. His last few articles concerning this gens video cards have been pretty fair if not leaning toward the Nvidia side.
    He has been right in the past I've seen it. Plus if he isn't right ever everyone would have stopped listening to him.

    This is another great point. Nvidia's GK114 is not supposed to release until late Q3 or even Q4 of 2012. If this happens I am almost positive that AMD will have something waiting for Nvidia. If Nvidia wants to make a real impact this round they need to come with their best foot forward first. Otherwise we will have another GTX 480 vs. HD5870 situation on our hands.
    I would also like to add that my place of business is a Nvidia distributor that gets Nvidia cards well in advance of when they usually release. So far I have not seen us get anything in for testing. ( But that could change any day as well)
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2012
  10. Recus

    Recus

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  11. the54thvoid

    the54thvoid

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    If Nvidia sponsor a game and give devs money then that is very well accpeted. AMD do it too. Having ultra powerful hardware to do specific things that are coded into a TWIMTBP game is also not a bad thing.
    The bad thing is, as CD pointed out in the S/A article is for the GK104 at least, it may possibly result in mainstream performance in non sponsored titles.

    Now, what folk ae missng is that if the GK104 does sell for the touted super low price (unlikely, surely) then it will be pitted against the mainstream cards anyway, so mainstream performance should be expected.

    For a long time we've always compared cost versus perf. If GK104 has mediocre mainstream performance but is costed significantly cheaper than the 79xx series then it is NOT a bad thing. If this same card has the power in certain titles to annihilate top end gpu's then that makes it a kind of eclectic superhero (like Hancock).

    Also, driver optimisiations can still elevate the hardware. Even now, crossfire 79xx's are tanking somewhat at 2560 on some titles.

    I would gladly pay less bucks for a mainstream card that can excell against cards costing hundreds more in certain titles.

    But, we'll all still have to wait and see because until it's benched we're still pissing in the wind.

    And if NV have strict review criteria with strict benchmarks, I think W1zzard should diplomatically not review it, so if we dont get a TPU review, we know we can't trust the card and if W1zz does test it, then we'll know it's at least an open review.
  12. Crap Daddy

    Crap Daddy

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    The more I read into that the more I think the guy hasn't got a clue about what's going on but pretentiously tries to find explanations for his own very personal theory about Kepler.

    This PhisX stuff is fishy, I mean in any run of benchmarks there's only one title, Batman AC that uses phisX which is NV proprietary and can be enabled or disabled. When you do a benchmark of this game for AMD and NV cards you don't enable phisX because AMD is not supported!

    So what are the other games that Charlie is talking about where NV shines and where it bombs because it is clearly not about phisX but games that are or are not coded mysteriously to support either NV either AMD better?

    So, if this phisX stuff magically increases the powers of Kepler it should do this in only one title commonly used for benchmarks, what about the other titles where the new chip is much better than the 580 and Tahiti?

    I mean, 50% difference in performance (that is 10% over the 7970 in NV games and 40% lower than 7970 - estimated perf of Pitcairn in AMD games) from a game to another seems ridiculous.

    And I really don't think NV will cherry pick the reviewers and the games they review. This would be worse publicity than launching a chip that is slower than Tahiti but is smaller, power efficient and much cheaper.
  13. AsRock

    AsRock TPU addict

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    I wish some one would put a bullet in Charlie's head already..
    Recus says thanks.
  14. xBruce88x

    xBruce88x

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    at first it was making sense, then it quickly went to conspiracy theory.
  15. Tensa Zangetsu

    Tensa Zangetsu New Member

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    ^^ +1
  16. Recus

    Recus

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  17. qubit

    qubit Overclocked quantum bit

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    The thing about Charlie is that he's good at finding and reporting interesting stories, but he draws outlandish conclusions from them and often rants unreasonably, which is what brings him down.
  18. Crap Daddy

    Crap Daddy

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  19. Sasqui

    Sasqui

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    Sort of on-topic... My understanding why PhisX hasn't been widely adopted, it adds a large burden of design and development time to a game. I'm sure NV targeted Arkham and provided dedicated resources to help defray that cost. In return, the essentially got them to blacklist AMD from the game (Not a surprising move by NV, they typically don't like to play with anything remotely resembling competition).

    What does this have to do with GK104? Marketing... more than anything else.
  20. lilhasselhoffer

    lilhasselhoffer

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    So let me offer my understanding of what has happened this far:

    AMD releases 79xx series of single GPU cards. They are the first to use the 28nm fabrication process.
    Nvidea sees AMD performance figures, and says our GPUs will beat that performance. Lacking to say "with a few more months development time before release."
    "Journalist" (I use the term loosely) sees potential for marketing to offer an inflated "performance" review, based upon GPU makers proprietary technology. This increase may or may not translate to generically higher performance in most tasks, but concludes that marketing will use these "exaggerated" performance figures to sell cards.


    I don't own a single Nvidea card, given my distaste for previous experiences with them. That said, nothing has been launched or bench marked. This is a purely speculative article, with as much grounding as a hot air balloon. Wake me when this "journalist" has something credible to offer.
  21. btarunr

    btarunr Editor & Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    There's panic in NVIDIA, you'll find even weirder theories* than this, in the days to come. Maybe GK104 is faster, maybe it's not, but it will be late to the market.

    *secret physics processing mojo.

    Last edited: Feb 2, 2012
  22. dir_d

    dir_d

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    I dont think its a Physx shaders i think its actually physics shaders. Meaning, games that are TWIMTBP will benefit greatly, but visually will be the same as the AMD cards. Just a software way to boost frames. This is similar to the AMD 7900 Leo tech demo.
  23. xenocide

    xenocide

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    This all seems a little too outlandish...
  24. Crap Daddy

    Crap Daddy

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    phanbuey says thanks.
  25. brandonwh64

    brandonwh64 Addicted to Bacon and StarCrunches!!!

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    Crunching for Team TPU

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