Heatware Still Needed for B/S/T Section?

[Solaris17]

I cannot fathom how anyone takes offense from using a free tool as it is advertised, for its intended purpose.

me either I don’t use eBay at all so that makes no sense to me. I also know heatware was a big help when we had known old member’s scamming people. Thankfully no longer with us, but blindly trusting people by post count makes no sense.

even if heatware was 0 it’s still upto the member to decide; I think it is good to have a glimpse into trade history though even if it’s been years. I don’t care about your eBay feedback, Facebook marketplace or Craigslist at all.

heatware was great because I recognized user names from other forums doing trades with you so it was pretty tight knit.

which was the purpose; to protect the tech forums.

 

[lexluthermiester]

I cannot fathom how anyone takes offense from using a free tool as it is advertised, for its intended purpose.

You might be reacting a bit strongly here. I'm not taking offense. I'm just not willing to jump through unneeded extra hoops when the needed hoops for general seller/buyer safely have already been worked out and provided. If Ebay & Paypal consider someone safe to do business with, so should we. And if something does go wrong, the standard(and quite effective) Ebay & Paypal protections apply.

Put another way, Ebay & Paypal both are regulated entities that have to follow laws and regulations. Heatware is not regulated and there are no meaningful assurances that it or anyone using it can be trusted.

I simply don't see any benefit to rolling out a custom integrated reputation system when the one in use has not changed in utility or function. Maybe W1zzard is up for the challenge and can somehow find time to build it up, but it seems like such a massive waste of time.

Agreed. That is not something he needs to devote time to, especially when a working system already exists. But again, I feel the same way about heatware. It's just not needed and is a waste of time. Which is another reason I've never used it.

 

[Fouquin]

You might be reacting a bit strongly here. I'm not taking offense.

That reply was not toward you.

 

[neatfeatguy]

in other words; working as intended.

I simply don't see any benefit to rolling out a custom integrated reputation system when the one in use has not changed in utility or function. Maybe W1zzard is up for the challenge and can somehow find time to build it up, but it seems like such a massive waste of time.

If you want to look at it that way. Sure, it may be beneficial to some capacity, but that also means that it's inconsequential to others so they just avoid using it and not post here on TPU. Always two sides to everything and just thinking that it's doing it's job without seeing the other side isn't helpful to the situation.

I don't think there's any worth for w1zzard to spend time making something similar for TPU and there is nothing wrong with use what's available, but not everyone wants to use it for whatever reasons they see fit. Me, I greatly dislike ebay and I don't use it (I have my reasons), but others probably think I'm crazy and they love ebay and enjoy using it.

If w1zzard were to make it a requirement to link ebay accounts isn't going to be any better over heatware, but at the same time not having it may also be a reason that people avoid selling on TPU. Always two sides, those it benefits and those it doesn't.

With whatever stipulations are put in place for selling on TPU, you're going to alienate some people in the end. Is heatware required to sell on TPU really beneficial to everyone? Maybe, maybe not. But it's not my decision to make, all I can do is offer my opinion. If it stays it doesn't bother me, if it's not a requirement it doesn't bother me.

 

[lexluthermiester]

That reply was not toward you.

Oh, sorry. It immediately followed my comment, thus...

 

[Fouquin]

Oh, sorry. It immediately followed my comment, thus...

Because you hit 'Post reply' ten seconds before I did...

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
Indeed eBay has a way better verification system than heatware has like Lex reminded why bank/ paypal setup.
Now eBay links to your bank without paypal fees !

I mean all I had to do is make an HW account and verify it with link to email used done
No other info was asked lol

Only relevant feature at that time was link to eBay or riddit account and the ebay linking is either broken still or has a delay for new accounts.

Forget creating a reddit lol what type of verification does that site do beside basic create account protocol same as HW used or any website like TPU uses.

Point is times change HW is not the only website on the planet.
So if you allow heatware why not eBay is all I'm saying.

That reply was not toward you.

I didn't say I was offended I said if I were the heatware site owner I would of been lol
Pretty wild post you did.
I saw it before you added to it.

Not to be rude or anything, but I don't care how the site owner feels. If the site owner wants to raise hell over the rating system being used for free, he'd charge a subscription fee to use the service, no?

This is how things have operated for the better part of a decade since their marketplace opened. Nothing about this has been a problem for anyone as far as I have seen. From their "About Us" page:

HeatWare is a 100% free site and has helped over 100,000 users in over 700,000 transactions.​

 

[Solaris17]

So if you allow heatware why not eBay is all I'm saying.

But they arent the same. We arent talking about heatware market place. We are talking (and the forum currently requires) the ledger, not the trade platform.

What benefit is ebay? or craigslist? or FB marketplace? The last time I used ebay you cant leave adhoc feedback on peoples profiles. You have to actually purchase something that was for sale....on ebay.....(we dont allow ebay links as per the rules)

So if I cant leave feedback on ebay because I walked down the street and bought your GPU, then what benefit does ebay provide? What protection? Atleast with heatware you can leave adhoc feedback without using there platform and gain perspective into the kind of trades a user deals in. If there is no feedback that is a flag in itself.

 

[lexluthermiester]

But they arent the same. We arent talking about heatware market place. We are talking (and the forum currently requires) the ledger, not the trade platform.

What benefit is ebay? or craigslist? or FB marketplace? The last time I used ebay you cant leave adhoc feedback on peoples profiles. You have to actually purchase something that was for sale....on ebay.....(we dont allow ebay links as per the rules)

And all of those are the reasons why it's not worth using, which is why it's rarely used. Few care enough to jump through all of those hoops.

So if I cant leave feedback on ebay because I walked down the street and bought your GPU, then what benefit does ebay provide? What protection? Atleast with heatware you can leave adhoc feedback without using there platform and gain perspective into the kind of trades a user deals in. If there is no feedback that is a flag in itself.

If it's a transaction that did not happen through Ebay, why should anyone be allowed to leave feedback on Ebay? However, your point is people being able to leave feedback on personal transactions. But that opens the door for fraud and dishonestly because if two or more people club together and leave each other a bunch of positive feedback to lure others into a false sense of security, the system has broken down without any measure of recourse.

So no, not a great system.

 

[Space Lynx]

me either I don’t use eBay at all so that makes no sense to me. I also know heatware was a big help when we had known old member’s scamming people. Thankfully no longer with us, but blindly trusting people by post count makes no sense.

even if heatware was 0 it’s still upto the member to decide; I think it is good to have a glimpse into trade history though even if it’s been years. I don’t care about your eBay feedback, Facebook marketplace or Craigslist at all.

heatware was great because I recognized user names from other forums doing trades with you so it was pretty tight knit.

which was the purpose; to protect the tech forums.

I agree with this, also as you scroll Heatware feedback for someone, I noticed since we are a tight knit community across sites, I recognize names I had long forgotten! Then I was like ok, if they have done business with so and so, I feel confident in this, and the deal gets made.

It's more personal, and the trust is greater because of it.

 

[ThrashZone]

You might be reacting a bit strongly here. I'm not taking offense. I'm just not willing to jump through unneeded extra hoops when the needed hoops for general seller/buyer safely have already been worked out and provided. If Ebay & Paypal consider someone safe to do business with, so should we. And if something does go wrong, the standard(and quite effective) Ebay & Paypal protections apply.

Put another way, Ebay & Paypal both are regulated entities that have to follow laws and regulations. Heatware is not regulated and there are no meaningful assurances that it or anyone using it can be trusted.


Agreed. That is not something he needs to devote time to, especially when a working system already exists. But again, I feel the same way about heatware. It's just not needed and is a waste of time. Which is another reason I've never used it.

Hi,
Man that is just so spot on
Heatware all you need to do is create an account and you can say what ever you want to on a seller profile review
No product advertisement there or transaction made there wow.

No evidence at all that a transaction ever occurred with the new user lol

At least eBay shows post edit history on all adds people create and all correspondences between buyer/ seller or just inquiries
So yeah think what you want about eBay it is far superior than heatware.

 

[Solaris17]

And all of those are the reasons why it's not worth using, which is why it's rarely used. Few care enough to jump through all of those hoops.


If it's a transaction that did not happen through Ebay, why should anyone be allowed to leave feedback on Ebay? However, your point is people being able to leave feedback on personal transactions. But that opens the door for fraud and dishonestly because if two or more people club together and leave each other a bunch of positive feedback to lure others into a false sense of security, the system has broken down without any measure of recourse.

So no, not a great system.

idk heatware seemed to work for everyone else. If you need to sell and buy on ebay then just go do that? Why make a fuss here? or OCN? or any other tech forum? Ebay doesnt offer anything over what the BST section already does.

I guess if we removed the no ebay links rule and heatware we could rename the section spam?

Sorry I might just not be getting it, but this makes no sense.

 

[Space Lynx]

idk heatware seemed to work for everyone else. If you need to sell and buy on ebay then just go do that? Why make a fuss here? or OCN? or any other tech forum? Ebay doesnt offer anything over what the BST section already does.

I guess if we removed the no ebay links rule and heatware we could rename the section spam?

Sorry I might just not be getting it, but this makes no sense.

Agreed, those of you who want to use ebay just use ebay, and those of you who want to sell here use heatware. I don't think anything needs to change, its working fine, so don't break it please.

 

[ThrashZone]

But they arent the same. We arent talking about heatware market place. We are talking (and the forum currently requires) the ledger, not the trade platform.

What benefit is ebay? or craigslist? or FB marketplace? The last time I used ebay you cant leave adhoc feedback on peoples profiles. You have to actually purchase something that was for sale....on ebay.....(we dont allow ebay links as per the rules)

So if I cant leave feedback on ebay because I walked down the street and bought your GPU, then what benefit does ebay provide? What protection? Atleast with heatware you can leave adhoc feedback without using there platform and gain perspective into the kind of trades a user deals in. If there is no feedback that is a flag in itself.

You just made a case for eBay showing they have far better safeguards for seller and buyers so thank you
The point is heatware is dated and very flawed as you state why.

Craigslist was just an example of a local selling place where cash rules and you get what you get.
On that note heatware could be the same result with totally false reviews.

 

[Solaris17]

You just made a case for eBay showing they have far better safeguards for seller and buyers so thank you
The point is heatware is dated and very flawed as you state why.

Craigslist was just an example of a local selling place where cash rules and you get what you get.
On that note heatware could be the same result with totally false reviews.

I dont see it, but if you want ebay fine, why does it need to be here at TPU though? So you can.....? what? spam your link? what is it your actually trying to solve?

This entire thread reads like someone wanted to post an ebay auction and got mad the forum stopped them. So im curious.

 

[Jetster]

Ebay is the last resort to sell stuff, its just a ripoff. But to buy from anywhere else I need to know you have history of satisfied buyers. Doesn't matter is you haven't sold something in 10 years.

I don't see where Heatware is dead.

 

[ThrashZone]

I dont see it, but if you want ebay fine, why does it need to be here at TPU though? So you can.....? what? spam your link? what is it your actually trying to solve?

This entire thread reads like someone wanted to post an ebay auction and got mad the forum stopped them. So im curious.

I don't do auctions so wrong.

You are really quick to throw accusation at me about spamming eBay
But man if you don't understand the fundamental differences by now you never will.

 

[Solaris17]

Ebay is the last resort to sell stuff, its just a ripoff. But to buy from anywhere else I need to know you have history of satisfied buyers. Doesn't matter is you haven't sold something in 10 years.

Agreed, even if by some miracle ebay links were allowed and we somehow tied ebay into the site or god forbid made it a requirement. (RIP mod duties) this offers no benefit to the consumer.

Instead of selling to a tech forum of like minded people, you want to allow ebay links so the people on this forum......have to compete with the rest of the world? What benefit does that give me the buyer?

I don't do auctions so wrong.

You are really quick to throw accusation at me about spamming eBay
But man if you don't understand the fundamental differences by now you never will.

No need to get upset, but saying "heatware bad" isnt an argument. You havent sold us any gains. So far......its nothing. I dont see what you benefit in taking it personally. Im challenging your idea. There are like 4 people total id ever do a transaction with on this forum.

 

[Space Lynx]

I don't do auctions so wrong.

You are really quick to throw accusation at me about spamming eBay
But man if you don't understand the fundamental differences by now you never will.

as a long time user of several forums, heatware just works for us and doesn't need replaced imo

you can alternatively use heatware, and if someone is interested in buying from you, you can mention in PM here is my ebay too - no need to change the entire system though

Agreed, even if by some miracle ebay links were allowed and we somehow tied ebay into the site or god forbid made it a requirement. (RIP mod duties) this offers no benefit to the consumer.

Instead of selling to a tech forum of like minded people, you want to allow ebay links so the people on this forum......have to compete with the rest of the world? What benefit does that give me the buyer?

not only that, but we give each other good deals here on this site. at least i try to. ebay doesn't care about good deal and helping each other out

 

[lexluthermiester]

If you need to sell and buy on ebay then just go do that?

And I do. TPU's policy of not being allowed to post Ebay links is kind of silly.

Why make a fuss here?

Because I was tagged to this thread and the questions were posed. Open forums and whatnot..

I guess if we removed the no ebay links rule and heatware we could rename the section spam?

That is an expression more of your bias and less objective impartiality. Ebay is not the wild west. Esty is the same, they have great anti-fraud measures in place. CL, FB Marketplace and others are effectively the wild west of buying and selling.. I lump Heatware in with those.

Agreed, those of you who want to use ebay just use ebay, and those of you who want to sell here use heatware. I don't think anything needs to change, its working fine, so don't break it please.

Ok, but this rule about no Ebay links is silly and always has been.

This is why you don't see me in the B/S/T section. It's not because I don't have stuff to sell, it's because I sell on Ebay/Etsy and ONLY take Paypal, and I'm not willing to spend extra time jumping through the hoops of heatware.

You are really quick to throw accusation at me about spamming eBay
But man if you don't understand the fundamental differences by now you never will.

Yeah, that seemed like a personal jab to me too.

 

[ThrashZone]

Hi,
With all this back and forth I closed my heatware account.
It's dated and protections are nonexistent for sellers.

Oops I also spammed the heatware account here to sorry.

 

[Solaris17]

That is an expression more of your bias and less objective impartiality.

No I just predate your account by years. I dont sell things here I could care less about the BST rules it doesnt affect me.

I sell on Ebay/Etsy and ONLY take Paypal

This might speak to your bias though.

 

[Fouquin]

But that opens the door for fraud and dishonestly because if two or more people club together and leave each other a bunch of positive feedback to lure others into a false sense of security, the system has broken down without any measure of recourse.

This is a detailed hypothetical with no supporting evidence of occurrence. This would require quite the cabal to orchestrate given how HeatWare includes timestamps and account information. So you would need accounts with varying sign up dates, different transaction dates, matching accounts on a spread of forums to validate the claim of those trades happening on those forums.

All to setup for one successful scam per account before the scammers are publicly named and shamed by their targets.

Alternatively old eBay seller accounts with high ratings are relatively easy to hack and autofill with fake listings. I report dozens per week myself.

 

[ThrashZone]

I dont sell things here I could care less about the BST rules it doesnt affect me.

This might speak to your bias though.

You have strong objections with eBay obviously can we call that your bias ?

Ebay is the last resort to sell stuff, its just a ripoff. But to buy from anywhere else I need to know you have history of satisfied buyers. Doesn't matter is you haven't sold something in 10 years.

I don't see where Heatware is dead.

Yeah guess we can all go to amazon market right.

eBay and amazon are more similar than heatware is.

 

[Solaris17]

You have strong objections with eBay obviously can we call that your bias ?

No its not a bias, I have an ebay account linked to my paypal too. Bias would be disliking it for personal reasons. We could allow it and like in the past when the forum got flooded with scammers and spammers before the BST/ implimentations were put in place, I could perm ban people all day. The work load isnt high so its not a moderation duty either.

Its also not personal, @Fouquin could have posted this thread and I would ask the same questions, and they atleast appear to agree with me on this. If you want change you have to be prepared to defend it.

I am asking, why does TPU needs to stop using heatware, and instead allow ebay links and rely on it for validation, why is that better than the current system, and if things go wrong how much worse is that for TPU, the consumer, or the seller.

So far to me anyway (and there are others reading this thread) it doesnt look substantially better or atleast not enough to warrant the lift.