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NVIDIA Provides Physics Technology for PLAYSTATION 3

Discussion in 'News' started by alexp999, Mar 17, 2009.

  1. DarkMatter New Member

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    But you did say you have to buy a separate card:

    And BTW a lot of people use it right now. Namely anyone with a Nvidia card that played Mirror's Edge.

    Also help, help... it does help a lot in Vantage and games that use it. A different thing is that the results are not accepted because otherwise Ati fanboys would cry :cry: and get mad :mad:.
  2. ShadowFold

    ShadowFold New Member

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    Uhh honestly, I could care less about vantage. And what games? Mirror's Edge? I beat that in 5 hours. Unreal Tournament 3? Game sucks and it only works on a few levels.
    I fail to see what's so awesome about PhysX.
  3. MadClown

    MadClown New Member

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    Why would they waste their time and money on PS3?
  4. leonard_222003 New Member

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    The point of physx is that it's running on graphics cards and makes some intresting stuff that can't be done by cpu that fast , what the hell it's doing on PS3 who doesn't have any great graphic card or cpu , any engine for physics is good enough for PS3 being havok or made by who makes the game , there was no need for Nvidia's physx because it doesn't bring anything new.
    Well , we know why they do it , to spread it a little more maybe it catches and becomes a standard , i wouldn't mind if it was available for everyone but making it exclusive for their products only ( pc games ) i mind a little because i have ATI , next absurd step would be to make physx available for mobile phones and iphone's , java games needs some physx god damn it , we need this Nvidia :) .
  5. DarkMatter New Member

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    There are going to be many games and this news about PS3 don't do but ensure a better future for PhysX. And can you tell me what's so good about DX10.1 (DX10 for that matter)??
    It's not about what it does today in games of today, it's about the potential and that is very big. And not only potential, because it can be used to a high extent already, only because AMD and Intel's pressures has not been used widely.

    Mirror's Edge, Warmonger, UT3 not even start to scratch the surface of what a card like my 8800 GT can do with PhysX, let alone the much faster GT200 cards. The only application that trully uses the PhysX engine to a good extent (not it even the fullest) is the PhysX screensaver which shows thousands of particles interacting like they would in real life and Cryostasis with it's particle made water, but this last one with much less particles than the screensaver. Just for comparison, Crysis, probably the game with most extensive use of CPU physics only has like 200-300 particles on screen at any given time. We are talking about 20x the particle number running smoothly in a 8800GT. That power can be used for many things, like interactive water and smoke, different cloth implementations (wood can be simulated with it to the smallest of the chips, also leaves etc.) and deformable meshes (like imagine punching a fat bastard and seing his belly wave :laugh:.
  6. DarkMatter New Member

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    The Cell is more than capable of handling PhysX just as well as a low end Nvidia GPU and probably better than the Ageia PPU, though I'm not sure.

    Also Nvidia made PhysX available for AMD for FREE but amd didn't want it. In fact there was someone making it work in Ati cards and while Nvidia supported them, AMD didn't want it to happen and even worse, the project was cancelled probably because AMD asked for it. Just like what Creative did with the guy that did X-Fi Vista drivers.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  7. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    I think it would have to be the GPU. No sense in releasing a developement kit for code that would run on the CPU anyway. Perhaps only the newer PS3s can run the code--Sony may have snuck in a newer NVIDIA chip at some point.

    Remember, people have been folding on the PS3 since the PS3 came out. That means the PS3 is fully capable of running GPGPU code so there's no reason why it couldn't do physics processing as well.

    It's hard to say where exactly F@H does most of its processing on the PS3 but I wonder if Sony made limited GPGPU possible before NVIDIA did on their own products. :confused:


    All I can say for certain is this:
    -Sony and NVIDIA worked jointly on the GPU of the PlayStation 3.
    -There is only 3 days difference between the release of the PlayStation 3 (November 11, 2006) and the 8800 GTX/GTS cards (November 8, 2006).

    It is reasonable to believe the GPU in the PlayStation 3 is more based on the 8 series than the 7 series. That, or 7 series expanded to support several 8 series functions (like GPGPU).
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
    Crunching for Team TPU
  8. scope54

    scope54

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    I think the PS3 was delayed for other reason and the GPU was finalized a while before it came out.
    http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/playstation-three2.htm


    And Valve most likely doesnt develop on the PS3 because its a lot harder to code for vs the 360. And why waste dev time and money to code for something thats not going to make you to much money.
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2009
  9. Ravenas

    Ravenas

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    Eh, no Gabe Newell said himself that he nor his team knows how to code for the PS3. That's why EA hired a shody developement team to make Orange Box for the PS3. Orange Box on the 360 or PS3 sucks a big one...

    The only game I wish they brought to the PS3 was L4D.
  10. Ravenas

    Ravenas

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    Show me charts from their marketing department claiming that it would be a waste of time and money...

    My question to you is, why are you trolling this thread?
  11. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    F@H does not run on the gpu. It runs on the CPU. The Cell CPU is essentially a PPC64 cpu with a bunch of shaders added to it. It is more than capable of running fully accelerated Physx.
  12. DarkMatter New Member

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    As Wile E said F@H runs in the Cell CPU. But it doesn't have any shaders, it has 7 (actually 8 but one is for redundancy) aditional Synergistic Processor Elements (SPEs) which is a RISC processor core with SIMD operation. It's similar to the aproach that Intel will use with Larrabee, but with many significant diferences. From a pure number crunching point of view Cell is an 8 core CPU. The Cell processor on its own is capable of 100-150 GFlops in single precision and 14 GFlops in double precision which is quite a bit.

    The GPU in the PS3 is no more no less than a crippled GeForce M 7900 GTX (only difference is that RSX has only 8 ROPs) with a memory controler and other logic integrated, or basically an IGP with the mobile version of the 7900 GTX.
  13. Wile E

    Wile E Power User

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    I called them shaders to simplify the description, as they are basically just floating point units, much like a gpu's shader.
  14. DarkMatter New Member

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    Yeah I guess you can physically describe them as shaders, although they don't perform any fixed function, any function indeed, except the elemental ones, just like any other CPU. But I think that "Cell is an OctoCore CPU" is just a better description and gets the job done.
  15. ZoneDymo

    ZoneDymo

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    PS3 fans having major bebebooboo over missing Valve games so it seems :p.
    UT3 is a great game.
    PysiX is nice but they should do more with it, Red Faction Guerilla is a step in the right way (sadly, chunks of broken down houses dissapear after hitting the ground).
  16. Hayder_Master

    Hayder_Master

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    ooooooooooh, we back and talk about physics again , ok good
  17. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    I don't think we'll ever know for sure what's going on in there because Sony and NVIDIA are tight-lipped about it. One can say it is based on this (7800) and another can say it's based on that (7900 GTX) but the fact remains: it is purpose built. The defining feature between 7 series and 8 series is the ability to run GPGPU code. If the Physx code runs on CELL, it is a derivative of the 7 series; if it runs on the GPU, it is a derivative of the 8 series (perhaps a primitive version of what would become the 8 series).
    Crunching for Team TPU
  18. DrPepper

    DrPepper The Doctor is in the house

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    The thing is the PS3's gpu could handle physX without being 8-series. Its all software related. I think though that it will run on the cpu because it has 7 odd processors and at least two won't be used in games.
  19. DarkMatter New Member

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    The defining feature is not the ability to run GPGPU code. The defining feature is the fact that 8800 has a unified shader architecture. The PS3 GPU doesn't, so it's pretty clear it's a 7900M GTX, exactly same clocks and manufacture process included.
  20. Imsochobo New Member

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    But they wont let me use it for what i want to use it for!

    I got 2x 7800 GTX @ home, could prolly snap those in and run physx if a ps3 can.

    I would buy a 9600 GT just to play cryostasis without lagg, the only game i really cannot play smooth.

    Why bother buying physx cards, when games run fine without, we need gpu offloading, not more load on them!
  21. Valdez

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    I'm not clearly understand what you're talking about. You can run physx on your rig, in software mode (cpu), just like on ps3.
  22. leonard_222003 New Member

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    Can the Cell cpu handle physx better than a phenom 2 or core duo/quad core/core i7 ? I'm asking this because i fail to see the importance of physx on consoles other than spread it a little more so it becomes a standard and yepyyy Nvidia makes money from this eventually chargin money for using their thingy.
    Don't give me flops numbers that can't be verified and come only from the mouth of IBM.
  23. DarkMatter New Member

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    Yes much much better than in a Quad. Remember the GFlops I gave? Well those are not the advertised ones. AFAIK IBM/Sony advertised it as being 256 GFlops. 150 is the maximum sustained Flops found in the chip, I think and 100 was the median low (when SPEs are used). It is commonly accepted that a Core2 has 8-10 Gflops per core depending on the clocks, more when overclocked. We could say that a heavily overclocked Quad has like 50 GFlops, versus the 150 Gflops on the Cell processor. The difference is that Cell's power can only be used in heavily parallel number crunching tasks (such as physics) while Core2 can run everything. Think of it as having 7 workers and an engineer, versus 4 engineers. 4 engineers are much slower doing the hard work, but all of them know what needs to be done at any given time. The 7 workers completely depend on their engineer's instructions.
  24. FordGT90Concept

    FordGT90Concept "I go fast!1!11!1!"

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    But if that were the case then why is NVIDIA releasing Phsyx code when Sony already offers COLLADA which runs on the CELL engine?
    Crunching for Team TPU
  25. alexp999

    alexp999 Staff

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    Take Mirror's Edge, for example. the game developers have designed around Physx for the PC, so it requires no extra work to enable it on PS3.

    Same goes for future games, if they are working on games that will be Physx enabled on PC, they can now enable Physx on PS3 without paying for coding another physics engine.

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