Record Breaker

[turbopsi]

I Know dippy, I know what you explained but I just never heard of anyone trying it in a freezer. I've got 2.5ghz with a 1.7v vcore, and what do you mean scaling of the architecture falls apart? Well I think I'm gonna go try some water, it's cheaper and easily upgradable and repairable compared to Phase-change. I mean even at 3ghz, an 800mhz increase is nothing to be ashamed about, I mean that's about a 30% speed increase, and at the possible 3.6ghz that's about a 60% increase, which is awesome because the 3200+ doesn't perform bad in the first place, plus with how much AMD's perform better with lower clockrates it should increase performance even more. I mean 300mhz, about 10% increase, is cool (what I got), but it'd be sweet to run an old XP quicker than any new processor around.

You aren't going to get 3ghz on water, unless maybe you try direct-die waterblocks. I'd say 2.7-2.8 might be possible though.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

I Know dippy, I know what you explained but I just never heard of anyone trying it in a freezer. I've got 2.5ghz with a 1.7v vcore, and what do you mean scaling of the architecture falls apart? Well I think I'm gonna go try some water, it's cheaper and easily upgradable and repairable compared to Phase-change. I mean even at 3ghz, an 800mhz increase is nothing to be ashamed about, I mean that's about a 30% speed increase, and at the possible 3.6ghz that's about a 60% increase, which is awesome because the 3200+ doesn't perform bad in the first place, plus with how much AMD's perform better with lower clockrates it should increase performance even more. I mean 300mhz, about 10% increase, is cool (what I got), but it'd be sweet to run an old XP quicker than any new processor around.

even at 3ghz, it would only take a 2.5ghz A64 to easily keep up with it.

Not only does the physical scaling of the CPU start to just drop off the face of the earth, and quickly, but so does performance.

It creates more watts than it uses as it starts t get faster and faster.

(the graph is messed up.. stuck with appleworks at the moment and its worse than ms paint.)

 

[GoLLuM4444]

It creates more watts than it uses as it starts t get faster and faster.

You're saying it creates energy?

 

[wazzledoozle]

your assuming what voltage? -40C wont magically make your cpu a god.

Id say 2.5ghz at around 1.65Vcore would net a 3ghz phase changed chip...

ofcourse, im talking a 2.0vcore stable 3ghz, not a useless suicide run to get 3ghz...

Ive seen how the amperage goes from 30 to 60+ on an axp and 3ghz is one of the major walls, and 2800mhz is too. the scaling of the archirtecture just falls apart at 2.5ghz and beyond, thats why it was so hard to breach it.

Exactly.

You will NOT get to 3.6 GHz
Oh cool, you can press ctrl+b for bold

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

You're saying it creates energy?

err it releases more than it uses compared to what it was at a lower setting... if the clockspeed increases 15%, it may start releasing 17% or more, more heat, rather than a straight 15/15% scaling like a lot of people assume.
I dont think the link works... my bad... try to look at the link if you can.. i cant fix it with the pc im on atm..

(it was supposed to say heat after watts)

 

[AMDCam]

Okay I'm not even planning to get to 3.6ghz and probably not even a cooling upgrade, but uhhh how did the guy that got 3.6ghz do it then? Very annoying that you say I won't if I'm in the same scenario as him, but whatever. I've decided that 2.5ghz is fine, especially if performance actually starts decreasing at higher clocks.

 

[Dippyskoodlez]

Okay I'm not even planning to get to 3.6ghz and probably not even a cooling upgrade, but uhhh how did the guy that got 3.6ghz do it then? Very annoying that you say I won't if I'm in the same scenario as him, but whatever. I've decided that 2.5ghz is fine, especially if performance actually starts decreasing at higher clocks.

you think your in the same scenario, but in reality, you dont understand the scenario.

Memesama is a japanese (im pretty sure) overclocker that works for one of the many websites, or maybe just "team japan" which is infamous for setting and holding numerous overclocking record, ranging from 3dmark, super pi to suicide runs.

That 3.6ghz was using a hand picked, im sure, CPU, LIQUID NITROGEN which is ~-150C or colder at times...

Along with the fact that the amount of experience they have torturing numerous types of hardware probably even dwarfs the amount of experience anything you have ever done Pretty much everyone else tho too

They are extremely skilled and talented overclockers, with a fat wallet to go with

www.xtremesystems.org

In the forums, look into LN2 overclock journals and cascade adventures, especially stuff with athlon XPs if you want some realistic results.

LN2 is extremely potential, especially in the hands of a skilled overclocker.

I'm workong on an article about covering a lot of this stuff, so heres a copy and paste quote of a preview of the cooling section. Hope this helps others reading aswell.

Cooling​

Cooling is definatly one of the most vital components of a good overclock. As power draw increases, to put it bluntly, stuff gets HOT! Fail to keep the components within the operating ranges, will result in either damage, or death of that component very quickly, especially at high voltages. As a general rule, I take the manufacturers specified thermal ceiling, and for every increase in voltage, lower the ceiling. I've concluded this by simply observing a few basic facts:

1. Mobile Athlon XP's are rated 100C maximum
2. Desktop Athlon XP's are rated 80C maximum
3. Mobile and desktop Athlon XP's are as far as we know, Identical, just speed binned for better speeds.

Increasing the speed increases heat output, but when you increase the voltage, it amplifys the heat output by much more.

A rough example of how increasing the voltage will effect the heat output/power usage on an Athlon XP. As you can see, mhz itself doesn't have as much of an impact on power consumption, although, large jumps will increase the angle of the line by a significant amount.

[subheading]Types of cooling[/subheading]

1. None - Not a good option for almost anything out- especially overclocking!
   
2. Passive heatsink - More common with older systems, such as pentium's, pentium II's and pentium III's, as they generally can handle higher temperatures and still run fine, along with the fact that their thermal envelope is very very low (in range with most low power laptops today), so a large modern heatsink, such as an XP-120 would keep it cool enough to not even need a fan.
   
3. Active air cooling - Probably the most common form of cooling today, relys on fans to amplify the amount of airflow over the heatsink and cools much more effeciently, but can be extremely loud, and has its physical limits, such as size of the heatsink, maximum airflow through the fins on the heatsink, and the ambient air temperatures.
   
4. Water cooling - A basic loop of water, running over heatsinks designed for this purpose, known as waterblocks. Much like active air cooling, but instead of air, water is used. Temperatures using this method are generally lower than most air cooling, and a good water setup should be able to outperform the highest end air cooling setups, and quieter, to boot! The main components are the waterblocks(heatsinks), the tubing, pump, and radiator to dissipate the excess heat into the air.
   
5. Thermoelectric cooling (TEC, aka peltiers) - refers to a "heat pump" type layer that is sandwiched between the cpu and another cooler (air, water or another TEC). generally needs double the wattage of the heating element - in this case, the cpu. Has a hot side and cold side depending on polarity (cold side on the CPU!) and end up increasing the internal temperature of the case substantially, unless the tec is cooled externally. The advantage is it's noiseless. The cold side is placed against the cpu, and warm side is cooled by another means - water or better for a good setup - since it puts out it's own heat, plus heat from the cpu. (~Beomagi) While generally safer and easier to utilize rather than building your own phase change, it itn't without its dangers! There are many horror stories of people leaving peltiers on, or their water pump dieing, and the peltier then burning up not only the waterblock, but the CPU and motherboard aswell!
   
6. Water chillers - Using the evaporator of a phase change system to cool a resevoir of water. This setup is simpler and safer to make for beginners, as it can be done as simply as taking apart a window air conditioner, slightly bending the evaporator, and buillding a resevoir around it. turn it on, (make sure you take the fan out!!) and within inutes, you have chilled water! General expected water temperatures: -15C
   
7. Phase change - Phase change is similar to water, as it is a chemical in a closed loop, flowing through a block, but a little more extreme. Instead of water flowing over the block, it uses a gas at a high pressure to create a liquid. As the liquid flows into the CPU or GPU evaporator, it evaporates and in doing so, basicly "sucks" the heat out of whatever it can, to gain the needed energy to turn back into a gas at the pressure. The evaporator line is insulated as much as possible to keep it the coldest where it will meet the CPU. as the gas returns, it created a high pressure, but this time as a gas form, and needs to be cooled. The condensor cools this part of the cycle. The compressor controls the pressures. General expected evaporator temperatures: -40C
   
8. Cascades - A cascade, is basicly a dual phase change system. It uses a what you could call "normal" phase change system to super cool the condensor of the second stage. This allows the use of much colder gasses in the second stage, that are unusable in a normal single stage system. For a 3 stage system, it is just repeated once more. This type of cooling isn't suited for 24/7 usage, as running 2 or 3 compressors uses an extremely large amount of electricity and is primarily for long benching runs. Temperatures of a 2/3 stage system can approach and exceed -110C.
   
9. Dry ice/liquid nitrogen - Unlike the other methods of cooling this is the least permanent. Using dry ice or liquid Nitrogen requires a "container". It is an open ended tube with copper at the end, which is on the CPU or GPU. Using dry ice, acetone is added to the container to increase surface area and lower overall temps and increase capacity. Liquid nitrogen is a liquid, so no additives are necessary. Both methods sublimate/evaporate very quickly, so refilling often is necessary. General temperatures are -60/-160C respectively.

Ultimately, your cooling choice is up to you. Look at what your goal is with overclocking, and pick whichever best suits you(Along with your budget!). For a light overclock, and learning, its best to start with an upgraded heatsink. For the more experienced users, water cooling is a very good option, and for those looking for excellent operating temperatures, phase change is a good way to go, BUT, those wonderful temperatures come at a price!

 

[AMDCam]

WELL THANK YOU! You could have explained to me the reason you said "YOU WON'T HIT 3.6ghz" before I got pissed because I thought you were insulting my skill, plus the insult wasn't backed up by anything (which really pisses me off), but obviously you did back it up and thank you very very much. With this chart I can pick what kind I'm looking for. I'd probably run water because it's upgradable to "chilled water" and other liquids, plus it's quiet (my 92mm tornado is killing me when I run benchmarks).