Will Nvidia Steal The Cryptocurrency Mining Crown From AMD ?

[Ahhzz]

All I can say is, "I hope so!!!!"... drag those R9 series back down to reasonable.

 

[xorbe]

Visa has thousands of servers that process transactions. That is just visa. Imagine all the banks. All mining does is distribute it and make it public. For those who don't know, mining is the way the cryptocurrencies process transactions.

No, visa runs enough computers to get the job done. They have no financial incentive to add more and more computers. It's a completely different problem.

Come on now, at least folding is going to a good cause (cancer research).

And even if it's useless, it's usually just run opportunistically on the machine at hand. Although I'm sure there are some users with large setups, it's generally not a mad rush to build racks to use all available household amperage.

 

[Nordic]

No, visa runs enough computers to get the job done. They have no financial incentive to add more and more computers. It's a completely different problem.



And even if it's useless, it's usually just run opportunistically on the machine at hand. Although I'm sure there are some users with large setups, it's generally not a mad rush to build racks to use all available household amperage.

It really isn't a different problem at all. I'm sure visa adds servers on an as needed basis. They are a company and are organized. Cryptocurrencies also need to compute power to do transactions too. The mining scales with the work needed. If there are too many miners the difficulty gets too high making it unprofitable making less miners. Cryptocurrency kinda works off an emergent behavior instead of being centralized like visa.

The benefits can be argued. The financial network and transactions being public record are benefits.

 

[Nordic]

I can also speak on folding as I am involved with similar charitable compute ventures. Its a charity. There is no profit involved. One simply runs as much as they are willing to afford.

 

[xorbe]

Unless I've misunderstood, mining is not required to perform a transaction with BTC. Is that incorrect?

 

[RCoon]

Ah, the modern world of doing nothing for something - that is mining.

Funny, I've never once met a BTC or LTC miner who actually makes loads of money. Not once have I heard anyone who mines makes fat stacks of cash. All I've ever seen are pictures and "theoretical" profit margins and costs of running. Lots of reports on how much BTC's are worth and all that crap, but from what I can tell people just horde them and never cash in. I wonder if there are even people willing to trade you for a cash in. The mining market seems to be all talk and not much to show for it.

 

[erocker]

Just burning electricity for greed.

 

[MT Alex]

Just burning electricity for greed.

I would call that a step up from burning other countries for greed.

 

[Chetkigaming]

Nice, i love Nvidia, so want they get more money for better improvements and more interesting technologies.

 

[R-T-B]

Funny, I've never once met a BTC or LTC miner who actually makes loads of money. Not once have I heard anyone who mines makes fat stacks of cash. All I've ever seen are pictures and "theoretical" profit margins and costs of running. Lots of reports on how much BTC's are worth and all that crap, but from what I can tell people just horde them and never cash in. I wonder if there are even people willing to trade you for a cash in. The mining market seems to be all talk and not much to show for it.

Sorry guy, you just met him... I'm at over 5x my initial investment, as is pretty mucn ANYONE who got in early... and believe me there are plenty.

and you can buy/sell with a USA bank account all over the web. Coinbase.com is easy as hell. I pretty much could quit my job off mining right now but it's a bad idea for several reasons.

 

[Blue-Knight]

FUD

Please define FUD... It can mean many things to me.

If you want to believe they're doing what they say, nothing against it. I am just highlighting the reality of the world we live in.

If you didn't like me, just ignore me. I am not asking for attention here.

 

[Nordic]

Unless I've misunderstood, mining is not required to perform a transaction with BTC. Is that incorrect?

It is. Bitcoin mining is the process in which new coins are formed and the process of approving a transaction. Approving saying and recording that John is giving Alice 1 bitcoin for the public record. Here is a laymans video here. I can probably find something a bit more technical if you ask nicely.

Funny, I've never once met a BTC or LTC miner who actually makes loads of money. Not once have I heard anyone who mines makes fat stacks of cash. All I've ever seen are pictures and "theoretical" profit margins and costs of running. Lots of reports on how much BTC's are worth and all that crap, but from what I can tell people just horde them and never cash in. I wonder if there are even people willing to trade you for a cash in. The mining market seems to be all talk and not much to show for it.

I have not gotten rich off mining, but it has allowed me to upgrade much more frequently. I have used what I have made from mining to have a more substantial disposable income. My 7970 was a biproduct an upgrade for gaming and for mining. I did kinda want a 670 instead, but it does't pay me sorta speak. My large amount of computers, that I use for WCG, has a direct relationship to what I have made from mining. So in short, I have used the disposable income I have gained from mining to fund my enthusiast hobby.
Now if instead I had been saving every bitcoin I ever made, I would honestly be rich right now. I would be setting on a nice $100,000+. Yet I still sell and use it as disposable income.

Just burning electricity for greed.

This is true. Greed is a powerful motivating factor. Pushes people to build a system around bitcoin, giving it real value. Bitcoins were once not even worth a penny.

 

[HumanSmoke]

The most gpu's I have seen on a system is 8, with the msi big bang.

If you go with a dual socket board then there are more than a few options. The Supermicro X9DRX+-F sports 11 PCI-E slots (10 @ PCI-E 3.0 x8 electrical, 1 @ PCI-E 3.0 x4 electrical - plenty of bandwidth for low end cards)

The board is used fairly often for multi-GPU rendering. Pity two low power 50W Xeons are so expensive, eleven single slot cards drawing all their power from the PCI-E slot would make for a relatively cable-free setup.
Tyan also have an 8-slot (dual slot spacing) custom mobo (available in the barebones FT77A ), which is more render farm orientated - such as this 8 x GTX Titan - since it features four (2 per CPU) PLX8747 lane extenders to allow all slots to operate at Gen3 x16

 

[Steevo]

Just burning electricity for greed.

Compared to gasoline, coal, natural gas, the building of nuclear arms, bullets, tanks, jet fighters, bombers, overpriced medicines, overpriced healthcare, overpriced healthy food, subsidies for companies who make the population fat and complacent enough to not stand up and fight for their rights which are being stripped away in the name of safety from an unknown foe?

That debate isn't for this forum.

 

[Jetster]

If you go with a dual socket board then there are more than a few options. The Supermicro X9DRX+-F sports 11 PCI-E slots (10 @ PCI-E 3.0 x8 electrical, 1 @ PCI-E 3.0 x4 electrical - plenty of bandwidth for low end cards)

The board is used fairly often for multi-GPU rendering. Pity two low power 50W Xeons are so expensive, eleven single slot cards drawing all their power from the PCI-E slot would make for a relatively cable-free setup.
Tyan also have an 8-slot (dual slot spacing) custom mobo (available in the barebones FT77A ), which is more render farm orientated - such as this 8 x GTX Titan - since it features four (2 per CPU) PLX8747 lane extenders to allow all slots to operate at Gen3 x16

Who need a Board?

http://beta.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/february/building-a-crypto-currency-mining-machine-part-two

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Anyone else immensely uninterested?

Mining is starting to be practiced by every idiot with enough money to go out and buy a few cards. Those people who have been mining for some time might be able to make a profit, but the bubble in mining is starting to pop. Exchanges are closing down, DDOS has pretty much screwed Mt. Gox, people have seen the value drop from ~$1000 per coin to closer to $300. All of this, combined with a flood of new miners, is making the profit margins look thinner and thinner in the future.

Back to the topic at hand, I hope Nvidea lays the smack down on AMD in mining. I like AMD, but the reality is the artificial price inflation is killing the value of their card. I don't want to pay the Nvidea tax on an AMD card. Even having been lucky enough to pick up a 7970 months ago, I would never buy another at these prices. Between the bubble bursting, and Nvidea competing, the prices for GPUs should be on the decline before fall in the northern hemisphere. It's then that we'll see a glut of used cards, when mining reaches its saturation point and loses profitability. Hopefully Nvidea can speed this death by releasing something that bests AMD totally.

Who need a Board?

http://beta.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/february/building-a-crypto-currency-mining-machine-part-two

Can't tell if trolling or simply did not read part 1.

The first part introduces the G1 sniper board that they are using http://beta.corsair.com/en-us/blog/2014/february/building-a-crypto-currency-mining-machine. It's an interesting read, but little more than that. I'd never want 120V at 20 Amps (2400 watts = 2.4 KW) running 24/7 in my house. That kind of power, in a make-shift wooden rack, screams death by electrical discharge.

 

[erocker]

Compared to gasoline, coal, natural gas, the building of nuclear arms, bullets, tanks, jet fighters, bombers, overpriced medicines, overpriced healthcare, overpriced healthy food, subsidies for companies who make the population fat and complacent enough to not stand up and fight for their rights which are being stripped away in the name of safety from an unknown foe?

That debate isn't for this forum.

Yes, just add it to the pile.

 

[HumanSmoke]

Mining is starting to be practiced by every idiot with enough money to go out and buy a few cards. Those people who have been mining for some time might be able to make a profit, but the bubble in mining is starting to pop.

Just like any pyramid scheme.

 

[lilhasselhoffer]

Compared to gasoline, coal, natural gas, the building of nuclear arms, bullets, tanks, jet fighters, bombers, overpriced medicines, overpriced healthcare, overpriced healthy food, subsidies for companies who make the population fat and complacent enough to not stand up and fight for their rights which are being stripped away in the name of safety from an unknown foe?

That debate isn't for this forum.

I don't understand. You've got fossil fuels, but unless you've got solar panels, nuclear reactors, or wind mills then the power comes from fossil fuels.

Spending money on health food has always been a crock. Some doctors recommend a multivitamin, but studies show there is little to no affect at all. Subsidies to ethanol and religion in the US outweigh our yearly science budget, but people rarely cite religious tax breaks as a source for money. If you're to look at everything we do, without any regards to its finite influences, then we're all just rushing head-long into the abyss.


Consider me a looking at this with a slightly longer perspective. Don't consider the results today, but what will happen when mining loses fad status.

I'd like to think of this in a positive light. In 6-8 months the bubble will fully deflate. Crypto currency will have its place, but the real winners will be projects like BOINC and Folding@Home. People will see that their $2000 mining rig is basically worthless, and sell off cards. This glut of cards will go to techies on the cheap, and most of us have an altruistic core. Imagine what a couple thousand 270 cards could do for the WCG and BOINC. I see the fools sacrificing money, and true good coming out of this within the year. Call me a cynical altruist, but idiots being parted of their money is a net good thing when the result winds up with cures for diseases.

 

[Steevo]

I don't understand. You've got fossil fuels, but unless you've got solar panels, nuclear reactors, or wind mills then the power comes from fossil fuels.

Spending money on health food has always been a crock. Some doctors recommend a multivitamin, but studies show there is little to no affect at all. Subsidies to ethanol and religion in the US outweigh our yearly science budget, but people rarely cite religious tax breaks as a source for money. If you're to look at everything we do, without any regards to its finite influences, then we're all just rushing head-long into the abyss.


Consider me a looking at this with a slightly longer perspective. Don't consider the results today, but what will happen when mining loses fad status.

I'd like to think of this in a positive light. In 6-8 months the bubble will fully deflate. Crypto currency will have its place, but the real winners will be projects like BOINC and Folding@Home. People will see that their $2000 mining rig is basically worthless, and sell off cards. This glut of cards will go to techies on the cheap, and most of us have an altruistic core. Imagine what a couple thousand 270 cards could do for the WCG and BOINC. I see the fools sacrificing money, and true good coming out of this within the year. Call me a cynical altruist, but idiots being parted of their money is a net good thing when the result winds up with cures for diseases.

I was trying to make the point that many other lossy and wasteful events occur on a daily basis and in significantly more extreme forms, and although this one is a massively complex one that has a fallacy in the ending it isn't one we really need to worry about at this moment.

The size of the computations increasing and the difficulty of the computations with the use of energy expended is a complete loss for society as a whole. Harnessing thousands of Kw of power to compute a few million coins worth of transactions, and the ever increasing difficulty means the energy use becomes exponential even with the introduction of newer hardware to perform the calculations. So the end result is it will become too big to compute, then what? The US government has no true idea of how much cash they have actually floating around, and that is with many thousands of people working on currency. This is a medium length pyramid scheme, one that requires the investment of actual cash in order to multiply the originators investment with a clearly defined failure in the future, beyond the silk road and darkweb use of course, and the people transferring their cash into it are the flock to fleece. Be it through electricity and hardware, or actual cash. Some may make money on it in the short term.

 

[Arctucas]

Can someone tell me the break-even point of mining?

In other words; what is the most I should be paying (KW/hr) for electricity in order to make money?

 

[HumanSmoke]

Can someone tell me the break-even point of mining?
In other words; what is the most I should be paying (KW/hr) for electricity in order to make money?

You wont get a definitive answer because of variables.
Basically it comes down to hardware cost + electricity tariff divided by return, but the return ( mining work requirement) steadily increases as more people are attracted to mining. You then have the added variable of a fluctuating exchange rate and whether you intend to retain the coins (speculating on their increased value over time), or cash out in the short term.
Your best bet would be to estimate hardware cost (if buying new components) and working out hashing rates/relative value versus power cost. Here is a ballpark list of hashrates for various processors.

 

[Steevo]

Can someone tell me the break-even point of mining?

In other words; what is the most I should be paying (KW/hr) for electricity in order to make money?

Unless you want to update your cards there is no point. Coins are paid for successful additions to the chain (transaction log plus hash), and it has become so competitive only pools of people working on finding solutions make money, and then only fractions of the coins are divided based on your input into the pool work.


People who are invested are going to keep working on it as they have the investment and trying to actually cash out for hard currency is difficult, plus the changes in the value may make your coins worth cashing out one day and not the next.

http://www.wired.com/opinion/2013/1...k-and-that-irreversibility-is-its-fatal-flaw/

While I am not against it, the notion that it will have a stable (read non hyper-inflating value) at any given time is not guaranteed by anyone other than the largest shareholders and the merchants accepting it. So it is more volatile than hard currency.

 

[R-T-B]

and trying to actually cash out for hard currency is difficult

Everything financial in nature seems to have a slight bit of verification diffilculty, due to KYC (know your customer) laws. I will say that signing up to sell coins on coinbase.com is easier than setting up a paypal...

 

[Nordic]

Everything financial in nature seems to have a slight bit of verification diffilculty, due to KYC (know your customer) laws. I will say that signing up to sell coins on coinbase.com is easier than setting up a paypal...

Agreed. Was very much so easier.