My OpenBSD experience:

[Easy Rhino]

I've never run any virtual machines on OBSD, though I have run OBSD on Virtual Box and VMWare.

Doesn't seem to be a high priority for any of the OBSD devs and I've never needed to run any kind of virtual machine on it... OBSD does all I need.

yea i was just curious. i run a few freebsd virtual machines on vmware server 2.0 and it really works well. i would like to have it host virtual machines to do some specific things like hosting low security programs like team speak.

 

[beowuff]

So, basically, the OpenBSD argument against virtualization is two fold.
1) Your placing a fully functioning OS on top of another one. Now you have the security issues and vulnerabilities of both OSs.
2) You also have the security issues with the virtualization software. Not only with the software itself, but also possible issues between the two OSs.

Like I said, I've used VMs before, but always on workstations to play around with things. I'm not sure I'd use them in a production environment. Jails and chroots, however, are different animals that I'm just starting to really play with.

 

[Easy Rhino]

So, basically, the OpenBSD argument against virtualization is two fold.
1) Your placing a fully functioning OS on top of another one. Now you have the security issues and vulnerabilities of both OSs.
2) You also have the security issues with the virtualization software. Not only with the software itself, but also possible issues between the two OSs.

Like I said, I've used VMs before, but always on workstations to play around with things. I'm not sure I'd use them in a production environment. Jails and chroots, however, are different animals that I'm just starting to really play with.

VMs work differently however. i can install a security problem piece of software like teamspeak on a linux virtual machine and i do not have to worry about somebody hacking it because they wont get anything of value. all of the important root and OS stuff is running on the host and it is impossible to get from the VM to the host. that is really a great reason to run virtual machines.

 

[beowuff]

i can install a security problem piece of software like teamspeak on a linux virtual machine and i do not have to worry about somebody hacking it because they wont get anything of value.

But if they hack your VM, they've still got a VM running on a machine that they can use. So, they can still get something of value. Having the VM means you now have two OSs to secure. There's still value in having a hacked machine, even if it's just used as a zombie.

all of the important root and OS stuff is running on the host and it is impossible to get from the VM to the host.

You can't know this for sure. There could be a bug in the VM software that would allow access to the host. If you hack a VM, it's pretty easy to be able to tell your in a VM. At that point, you can start on the VM software. Or try to hack the host directly.

I'm not saying there's no use for VMs. Obviously they can be immensely useful or the software wouldn't be as popular as they are today. I even use them occasionally.

 

[Easy Rhino]

But if they hack your VM, they've still got a VM running on a machine that they can use. So, they can still get something of value. Having the VM means you now have two OSs to secure. There's still value in having a hacked machine, even if it's just used as a zombie.

so long as you are a good admin and you constantly monitor your machines it is highly unlikely. you just shut down the VM without having to shutdown the entire PC.

You can't know this for sure. There could be a bug in the VM software that would allow access to the host. If you hack a VM, it's pretty easy to be able to tell your in a VM. At that point, you can start on the VM software. Or try to hack the host directly.

I'm not saying there's no use for VMs. Obviously they can be immensely useful or the software wouldn't be as popular as they are today. I even use them occasionally.

thus far no bugs have been found allowing access from the VM to the host. in fact, the only way in theory is if you can somehow determine the virtual cpu clock cycles and match it with the host cpu clock cycles at the right time. and i really dont think that is going to happen anytime soon.

 

[regexorcist]

Decided to try something different...

Prior to installing openBSD on my main desktop,
I installed it on a spare computer that was given to me,
so last night I pulled that same spare computer out
(Dell Dimension 2300) and installed DragonflyBSD.

There were a few issues w/ partitioning and then
a reoccurring failed temp sensor reading which
kept displaying on the command line, but I did get
it installed successfully.
I used the package manager to download
the 5 or 6 xorg meta packages as well as a window manager
and a few other apps. I really liked pkg_radd as opposed
to pkg_add which saved me some time (didn't have to look up a mirror).
I selected the "Hammer" file system which, from what I read, offers some
neat features, but I didn't spend to much time reading the details.

All in all, I prefer openBSD which has been running 24/7 as my primary
desktop and file server for at least 3 weeks now. Operation has been flawless
and there were no installation issues. I'm probably going to add a second
network card to that spare computer and replace DragonflyBSD with openBSD.
Then (when I get more time) experiment with router and firewall configurations.

To be fair, now that DragonflyBSD is installed it seems solid, but I'm not
going to leave it on long enough to really evaluate. I know what I like and
it's openBSD

The story continues...

 

[Easy Rhino]

i just realized... NO SCREENSHOTS!!! where are they at?!?!?!?

 

[regexorcist]

Your absolutely right...
I'll post screenshots from now on

Here is my current desktop...

 

[Easy Rhino]

did you find the openbox docs helpful? i am currently working on openbox on ubuntu and would like to know how to find current video resolution and what not.

 

[regexorcist]

did you find the openbox docs helpful? i am currently working on openbox on ubuntu and would like to know how to find current video resolution and what not.

I didn't read the docs.

I don't use any Openbox utilities like obmenu, I find it much easier to edit my menu.xml file
and as for display resolutions/options, If I don't like the initial resolution I'll edit my xorg.conf file.
(NOTE: I usually stick with one resolution, so there is no need to change on the fly)

Lately systems have gotten better at detecting hardware so an xorg.conf may not exist,
but it's a simple matter to generate one.

I usually prefer to manually edit config files over using any GUI front end, but thats' just me...

 

[Bink]

Congrats on thinking/playing outside of the Linux box. I’ve been using OpenBSD for many years now—and, pretty much, replaced Debian with it. Regarding window managers, if you are open to something minimal, you might want to try the built-in cwm. It’s quite decent, lightweight and, well, built-in. While I would not consider OpenBSD a desktop-oriented OS—I use it mainly for routing, firewall and related functions, which it excels at—it’s very clean, consistent and will still make for a decent desktop (I hope you don’t care for anything Adobe Flash… ).

Cheers.

 

[regexorcist]

Congrats on thinking/playing outside of the Linux box. I’ve been using OpenBSD for many years now—and, pretty much, replaced Debian with it. Regarding window managers, if you are open to something minimal, you might want to try the built-in cwm. It’s quite decent, lightweight and, well, built-in. While I would not consider OpenBSD a desktop-oriented OS—I use it mainly for routing, firewall and related functions, which it excels at—it’s very clean, consistent and will still make for a decent desktop (I hope you don’t care for anything Adobe Flash… ).

Cheers.

Hi Bink,
Thanks for the post.

I may try cwm, but...
Is this project active, has there been any development since 2005??

As for Flash, swfdec works OK for the older stuff and the long awaited
Demise of Flash is just around the corner!!

 

[Bink]

I may try cwm, but...
Is this project active, has there been any development since 2005??

As for Flash, swfdec works OK for the older stuff and the long awaited
Demise of Flash is just around the corner!!

cwm is now part of OpenBSD’s base—so while the original project might have been abandoned, the OpenBSD devs have become its new in-tree stewards and have been updating/fixing bugs the code regularly ever since its import in 4.2. As for Flash, yes, I too look forward to its demise…

 

[regexorcist]

Now I remember...
It was in the fvwm menu as an option initially.

I'll try cwm along with a bunch of other window managers
when I upgrade to 4.7 (just a few weeks away)

So Bink,
What do you use for your desktop OS

 

[Bink]

So Bink,
What do you use for your desktop OS

I hate to say it in this forum, and it’s a bit OT, but I primarily run Windows 7—as my day job keeps me quite involved, primarily, with Windows. Then again, while it is proprietary/near monopoly/closed software, Windows 7 has proven pretty damn decent—and it still does power management better than any UNIX-like OS I’ve ever used (perhaps with the exception of OS X, but I find Apple, in many ways, to be worse than Microsoft).

While I look forward to the day I can run open source, particularly OpenBSD, on almost everything, it’s not a religion for me and closed source still has its place—and is still better than open source at quite a few things.

 

[regexorcist]

While I look forward to the day I can run open source, particularly OpenBSD, on almost everything, it’s not a religion for me and closed source still has its place—and is still better than open source at quite a few things.

Just as open source is better at quite a few things also.

As for that day...
For some of us, it's already here and for others it may never come.

Thanks for posting on my OpenBSD thread!!

 

[regexorcist]

As of last night...
I had to take a detour off the OpenBSD road due to hardware compatibility.

Just received my new ATI 1 gig. video card w/ HDMI connector.
To get any 3D capabilities and HDMI sound, I have to use the
ATI Catalyst Driver for Linux. Even so, configuring sound was still
a bit of a chore.
Now I use a 32" LCD TV for a monitor, so it makes sense to use
the video card and Catalyst driver even if I have to transfer back
to a Linux distro.
My choice was between Arch and Slackware...
While Arch is a fairly clean slate to develop on, I prefer that
Slackware's philosophy was to produce the most "Unix like" OS
and as J.R. "Bob" Dobbs reminded me... I must have slack!!

As for OpenBSD...
I'll be back!!! when hardware permits.

For now I'll put it on a laptop or secondary system

 

[Easy Rhino]

i know what you mean. my graphics requirements kept me from sticking with freebsd even though i have an nvidia card.

slackware is a good choice but i simply could not get used to it. plus the community acted highly elite and would not answer questions unless you phrased them in a specific way. now, i was used to that since i played around with freebsd for several years, but these guys were just lame.

you could always go with something like gentoo or centos. both have strong communities and are very clean. gentoo actually uses the portage system

 

[regexorcist]

yes I had Gentoo before and found it to be a PITA

Actually, I considered BSD because I was familiar w/ Portage
so it was Gentoo that got me to BSD indirectly.

I say it was a PITA because at the time, I was trying many different
development systems so I would emerge/compile for like
45 minutes, try it out, not like it, uninstall and try another one, repeat, repeat...

I would sometimes get a note at the end to manually change some config file
or change my make config to ignore some library version, etc...

All in all, I preferred Arch to Gentoo.

As for a specific "distro" community, I don't bother,
they are always wayyy toooo seriousss!!
General Nonsense is more my speed

NOTE:
I'm not putting Gentoo down, I learned more about Linux
from Gentoo than any other distro, period!!

 

[Easy Rhino]

i hear yea. the ubuntu community has been very helpful and i find them patient enough. same with the fedora community but they are not clean enough if you want to develop and start from a clean slate.

when you get arch up and running you should create another thread and take some screen shots

 

[regexorcist]

A good community is important for a distro to grow and Ubuntu is
probably the largest community. I used to listen to LUG Radio
and now A Shot of Jaq oggcasts w/ Jono Bacon (Ubuntu Community Manager).

Arch is a very good system,
at one time I was running Arch w/ JWM and just a few xfce and obscure apps.
I couldn't have been any lighter and made it a point to not
install any gnome/kde libraries, a few were required for different things
but not too many.
I liked pacman and yaourt but a rolling release isn't for me, I would
update the system every few weeks and worry if something broke.
It never did, but that didn't stop me from worrying.
I like fixed stable releases, not bleeding edge or high maintenance,
I liked OpenBSD, but I also like to get as much out of my PC
hardware as I can. It's slackware for now and I'll upgrade from
this release candidate (13.1 RC2) to 13.1 release when it comes out.

Now it's time to play with some things that were not available to me on BSD.