Xigmatek Balder modification idea, opinions?

[niko084]

As we know the direct heatpipe is a good idea, problem being the cracks between the pipes and the plate, sure you can fill these in with some thermal paste but it doesn't really do the job as well as it could be done...

So upon learning that my cooler just wont keep my chip cold enough for my taste I am grabbing some sand paper and I'm going to lap the chip.

Now the cooler could be lapped to but I'm thinking about going a step further.

Sand through that stupid nickel plating and get it nice and smooth, then use silver solder between the heatpipes to seal up the little gaps, then sand some more to get it dead smooth again.

Any thoughts besides buying a different cooler or going water, which I'll probably be doing but I feel like playing around a bit.

 

[mastrdrver]

How well does silver solder transfer heat would be my question.

Getting rid of the nickle plating is not going to gain you anything fwiw.

 

[sneekypeet]

I would assume you would need torch like heat to melt the solder and get good adhesion between the copper, silver, and aluminum. At that point I am not too sure about warp-age of the metals.

 

[pantherx12]

Not worth the effort unfortunately !

Better to Sell the Balder and grab something better.

IFX-14s are fairly cheap these days, do they beat balders?

 

[hat]

No. The metal on those heatspreaders is too thin. There's a good chance you'll ruin it by lapping it. If you want better cooling performance, get another cooler.

 

[niko084]

I would assume you would need torch like heat to melt the solder and get good adhesion between the copper, silver, and aluminum. At that point I am not too sure about warp-age of the metals.

About 300-400F. I'm not very worried about the temps, but after looking into it a bit further it wouldn't be overly possible..

So what I'm going to do instead is give it a real light sanding *I know the pipes are thin, I have lapped them before* and lap my cpu, mix myself up some diamond paste and see how she does.

At this point I already know I'll be switching coolers, just figure before I get to do all that I'll have some fun and see what I can manage to pull off here.

When I get it going I'll post pics and numbers.

 

[newtekie1]

What do the gaps matter? You are only concerned with transfering heat to the heatpipes, which directly touch the IHS, so that they can move the heat up to the fins. The gaps and the baseplate make no difference in cooling performance.

 

[niko084]

What do the gaps matter? You are only concerned with transfering heat to the heatpipes, which directly touch the IHS, so that they can move the heat up to the fins. The gaps and the baseplate make no difference in cooling performance.

Yes they do because it's open space that doesn't transfer the heat off your cpu.
While they may not do it as well as the heatpipes themselves, it does play a role.

Contact area plays a role in how well your heatsink will transfer heat from your cpu.
Is it a lot, no we are probably talking about very minimal differences here, I just feel like toying around to see what I can manage to do with it.

I should just make my own bloody heatsink and do it right, unlike half the companies out there that really don't seem to employ thermal engineers. As we can easily tell by nickel plating our copper pipes, fins, not soldering the fins to the pipes, the list goes on and on.

You did realize I was talking about the gaps on the bottom where it contacts the cpu right, vs using thermal compound to fill those cracks?

 

[newtekie1]

Yes they do because it's open space that doesn't transfer the heat off your cpu.
While they may not do it as well as the heatpipes themselves, it does play a role.

Contact area plays a role in how well your heatsink will transfer heat from your cpu.
Is it a lot, no we are probably talking about very minimal differences here, I just feel like toying around to see what I can manage to do with it.

I should just make my own bloody heatsink and do it right, unlike half the companies out there that really don't seem to employ thermal engineers. As we can easily tell by nickel plating our copper pipes, fins, not soldering the fins to the pipes, the list goes on and on.

You did realize I was talking about the gaps on the bottom where it contacts the cpu right, vs using thermal compound to fill those cracks?

Yes, I do realise that, and again I don't believe the gaps matter. The idea is for the base to transfer the heat to the heatpipe, in the case of a DTH cooler, the heat from the IHS goes directly into the heatpipes, to the gaps don't matter. All filling in the gaps would do is transfer the heat to the aluminum plate, that doesn't help cooling any.

 

[happita]

I should just make my own bloody heatsink and do it right, unlike half the companies out there that really don't seem to employ thermal engineers. As we can easily tell by nickel plating our copper pipes, fins, not soldering the fins to the pipes, the list goes on and on.

The reason why most companies now use nickel plating on their copper pipes is to prolong the life. Plain and simple. And unless you are a thermal engineer yourself, you would have no idea of knowing what the best possible thermal design would be. Well, neither do current engineers, but thats why they are constantly designing new ones to see what works better.

 

[niko084]

Yes, I do realise that, and again I don't believe the gaps matter. The idea is for the base to transfer the heat to the heatpipe, in the case of a DTH cooler, the heat from the IHS goes directly into the heatpipes, to the gaps don't matter. All filling in the gaps would do is transfer the heat to the aluminum plate, that doesn't help cooling any.

So according to what you are saying the aluminum base plate itself has absolutely no ability to dissipate heat...

Might want to think that one through again.

 

[niko084]

The reason why most companies now use nickel plating on their copper pipes is to prolong the life. Plain and simple. And unless you are a thermal engineer yourself, you would have no idea of knowing what the best possible thermal design would be. Well, neither do current engineers, but thats why they are constantly designing new ones to see what works better.

I do actually have a bit of background in thermal, I also have a friend who happens to be a thermal engineer along with a few other engineering fields.

So, on to the prolonging life... Exactly how long do you hang onto your air coolers, 10 years?

Lets just leave it at there is absolutely no need to plate them for longevity at all. It's a show thing, looks good for the kids, kinda like plastic side panels and led fans, not that I'm all against it but I care much more for function.

I honestly have a lot of doubt in the ability of these companies "design teams" which I'm willing to be have a standard grasp and on top of that have art backgrounds, most units you see all have very basic level mistakes made that nearly any enthusiast can pin point from a mile away, so they are either cutting corners or they simply really are not educated to do such work at it's best. I'm not saying the designs are poor, they are just constantly under thought.

Thermal engineers are busy working on real problems, not cpu cooling for overclockers, like how do we keep our nuclear reactor cold enough.

 

[MilkyWay]

Is it that bad? The Balder is supposed to be as good as a HDT-S1283. It is an i7 though.

 

[niko084]

Is it that bad? The Balder is supposed to be as good as a HDT-S1283. It is an i7 though.

Nah it's not really that bad, I just want to see the temps lower and I like tinkering with things.

I always look at the way anything is designed and go hmmm... How could this be done better.

Guess it's a curse of going to school for double engineering masters.

 

[MilkyWay]

Im pretty sure its got a thin base might want to watch for that, isnt it pre lapped?

 

[newtekie1]

So according to what you are saying the aluminum base plate itself has absolutely no ability to dissipate heat...

Might want to think that one through again.

Relative to the amount of heat dissipated by the heatpipes and fin array? No, no ability to dissibate heat. There is relatively no surface area and relatively no airflow. The baseplate does nothing to help cooling, even if it made perfect contact with the surface of the processor. The baseplate is there for mounting only, it doesn't even make a 1°C difference in temp.

 

[3volvedcombat]

I'm going to give you advice.

I got a xigmatek s1283 dark knight.

I lapped it- till it was smooth

Then I slaped the laped cpu in and screwed it down.

When i took the cpu out- the copper on the heatpipe was so thinned down, it bent and i can see a impression were the core 2 duo was.

Rediculas- if you lap it- dont touch the copper pipes after your done- because mine were so thin- they bent to the dam touch- ruined it after lapping it.

Dont lap heat pipes without really slow and careful consideration.

 

[niko084]

Relative to the amount of heat dissipated by the heatpipes and fin array? No, no ability to dissibate heat. There is relatively no surface area and relatively no airflow. The baseplate does nothing to help cooling, even if it made perfect contact with the surface of the processor.

Weather it's a reasonable amount to consider the work involved, or even really a measurable amount without very precise equipment is in question.

The question of it being able to aid in heat dissipation is not in question at all, it has the ability to transfer heat and it would be better connected therefore it will aide.

I'm not talking about doing this for good gains, it was more or less an idea of a nearly free project *considering I already have everything I need* to just make something good a hint better.

 

[3volvedcombat]

Weather it's a reasonable amount to consider the work involved, or even really a measurable amount without very precise equipment is in question.

The question of it being able to aid in heat dissipation is not in question at all, it has the ability to transfer heat and it would be better connected therefore it will aide.

I'm not talking about doing this for good gains, it was more or less an idea of a nearly free project *considering I already have everything I need* to just make something good a hint better.

also silver is a really good heat conductor. Try it.

It should improve if you get it in there good and lap it

 

[niko084]

When i took the cpu out- the copper on the heatpipe was so thinned down, it bent and i can see a impression were the core 2 duo was.

Rediculas- if you lap it- dont touch the copper pipes after your done- because mine were so thin- they bent to the dam touch- ruined it after lapping it.

Now that's good to know, I knew they would be thin but I did not figure they would be that thin....

Would sure be nice if they did a better finish on them then but not the end of the road, I already came to the conclusion that soldering it would be a royal PITA one thing will stick to aluminum another to copper, non to both decently, then you have to worry about heat expansion of that solder etc etc etc...

I'll lap the cpu, mix up some diamond paste and see what I can get, might even more seriously consider building my own heatsink, be interesting trying to build it by though.

What I may still do is at least use some 1000+ grit and get rid of the nickel plate, that's going to be extremely thin, removing that wont be an issue itself, again probably not a noticeable gain but technically better.

****
Not looking for miracles here, just looking to clean up "rough edges" I guess you could say

 

[happita]

My intention was not to doubt your knowledge, but instead I put more faith into the people who actually make these things. And your probably right, they do have more important things to do with their time other than to focus on CPU coolers. But to be fair, if you haven't designed a cooler from scratch, or completed a project where it involves you getting your hands wet in the process of making one (not book knowledge, but application), then its difficult for me to believe that your knowledge rivals or is greater than these people.

However, with all that being said, I'm glad to hear that some people with problem-solving abilities or just an affinity to make something better like you is willing to go through the process of trying to make something that is great even better. Your experience might lead to an idea that might spur some of us here on TPU to tackle something such as this and come out successful because someone else had the balls to give it a try. Whatever that problem may be. Cheers to you niko.

 

[niko084]

But to be fair, if you haven't designed a cooler from scratch, or completed a project where it involves you getting your hands wet in the process of making one (not book knowledge, but application), then its difficult for me to believe that your knowledge rivals or is greater than these people.:

Agreed the other side of it though is these are businesses so that means their manufacturing process, QC, and cost to produce comes heavy into play and that generally happens against the designers wishes, I can't say for certain with these companies but I can give a long list that do, it's simply good for business.

Unfortunately sometimes it can be at the consumers down side.

Over and above I do like the cooler and I'll probably keep buying them.

 

[theonedub]

You'd probably see better improvement by trying to get that Vcore down a little for your OC.

 

[pantherx12]

Yes, I do realise that, and again I don't believe the gaps matter. The idea is for the base to transfer the heat to the heatpipe, in the case of a DTH cooler, the heat from the IHS goes directly into the heatpipes, to the gaps don't matter. All filling in the gaps would do is transfer the heat to the aluminum plate, that doesn't help cooling any.

Well you're wrong, at the very least it's extra mass to soak up heat.

But the important factor here is if you heat up what the heat-pipes are in then they are getting heat from 360 degrees, not just from the bottom

Niko I want to build my own heat-sink too, nearly bought copper sheeting for the fin array the other day

 

[Rakesh95]

I heard some high end coolers actually have a gas in the heat pipes, thats something you should consider too.