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Nvidia GTX 970 problems: This isn't acceptable.

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Doesn't that usually happen when a weaker GPU is pushed to the limit (compared to a stronger one)?

Pls look again at the graphs - ofc the 970 is slower than the 980, but with with a memory system as advertised by NV on release, you would see the same behavior as with the 980 only slightly slower, which isnt the case there. Min FPS and Frametimes are much worse/show oddities that arnt there with the 980.
 
You're making a supposition not stating a fact, so your argument doesn't hold.

Also, when testing something, the whole point is to stress it to reveal weaknesses and find the limits of performance, so the fact that the product may not be used that way for most of the time is irrelevant.

Um look at sites that relooked that the matter, its straight up truth. How many people run games at that kinda settings? Running game on a 1440p using high DSR which pretty much runs game at 4k rez, throw on top of that using 4x MSAA anyone that are not idiots will tell you that would kill fps on any card ram limit or not. Most people don't run games at that kinda settings cause fps is gonna make it mostly unplayable to start with. Better use most common use case then some insanely high settings that no one else uses and not say that anything about that fact.

Any Hardware reviewer will speak to that fact that settings they used to get card to do what is the issue is well beyond what a vast majority of users wouldn't run for settings.
 
Roll on GM200 and Sea Islands (or whatever it's called).
It's a pity the timing isn't there for both - or rather, the timing of Win10 since both series are probably aiming to piggyback MS's marketing hype. If this wasn't the case we could have an instant pricing realignment - maybe something along the lines of:

Titan II (?) - $1K+
980Ti - $650
Second GM 200 salvage part - $500
GTX 980 - $350-400
GTX 970 - $250 (or maybe a 14 or 15 SMM salvage part - there must be a load of them right, if there are plenty of 16SMM 980's and 13SMM 970's ?)
GTX 970 - $220 (existing part)
GTX 960 - $150
Um look at sites that relooked that the matter, its straight up truth. How many people run games at that kinda settings? Running game on a 1440p using high DSR which pretty much runs game at 4k rez, throw on top of that using 4x MSAA anyone that are not idiots will tell you that would kill fps on any card ram limit or not. Most people don't run games at that kinda settings cause fps is gonna make it mostly unplayable to start with. Better use most common use case then some insanely high settings that no one else uses and not say that anything about that fact.
To a degree, it doesn't matter whether the user runs into problems or not. The product still needs to tally with the advertising and specs. Most people might never run into the issue, but it still doesn't negate the problem for those who do.
Nvidia stated that a million 970's and 980's had been sold. Judging by the amount of noise being generated, I'd suspect that the company would just reimburse AIB/AIC/OEM's (or handle direct for their own branded cards ) for those affected- which I'm guessing will only be a percentage of those who actually bought the card(s). Price cutting and spec changing would be a logistical nightmare to synchronize ( re-stickering existing reseller inventory). Any speculators would just buy up inventory just to return, buy back the cards at the lower rate and pocket the difference.
 
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Um look at sites that relooked that the matter, its straight up truth. How many people run games at that kinda settings? Running game on a 1440p using high DSR which pretty much runs game at 4k rez, throw on top of that using 4x MSAA anyone that are not idiots will tell you that would kill fps on any card ram limit or not. Most people don't run games at that kinda settings cause fps is gonna make it mostly unplayable to start with. Better use most common use case then some insanely high settings that no one else uses and not say that anything about that fact.

Any Hardware reviewer will speak to that fact that settings they used to get card to do what is the issue is well beyond what a vast majority of users wouldn't run for settings.

Well, the poster wasn't actually stating a fact, just what he felt was right and his assertion was wrong about testing. He'd have to link to something demonstrating what he's saying, or show us his own testing results to call it a fact.

Regardless, I get your point about using so much RAM, resolution and quality settings that the GPU can't handle it anyway and this can often be the case, especially with low end cards that have lots of memory. However, my 780 Ti is a bit less powerful than the 970, yet GPU-Z has shown RAM usage sometimes approaching the full 3GB* and the framerate remained reasonable, so it's not unreasonable that a high end 4GB card can use 99% of its RAM and still maintain performance. Hence, stress testing a 970 to show up its flawed memory subsystem is valid.

If you think about it, there's no reason why a card couldn't have 90%+ of its memory used up and still run a game or test animation at 200fps or even 1000fps. It all depends on how it's using the data and the effective size of the redraw loop. A programmer could easily design a test to allocate 90% of the RAM and just make the card work with the last bit of its RAM buffer without any problems and it wouldn't surprise me if tests like this are going to be designed after this fiasco to check for issues like this in future models.

*To be fair, it was only a casual test when playing CoD: Ghosts**, so I don't clearly remember the resolution. I think it was 1080p with quality settings maxed or nearly maxed out (I never use ambient occlusion for example due to the significant performance hit and turn down shadow quality too). I've also played around a bit with 4K using DSR, so maybe the RAM limit was approaching 3GB in this mode.

**Yes, I'm the one person in the gaming universe who really liked this game, lol. :p
 
I guess should go without saying that how the starter of this thread did his testing is pretty much unrealistic for 99.9999% of people to use those settings to get those results. I would bet even radeon cards would have a hard time running at game at 4k+ rez with 4x MSAA as well not after stuttering issues when you turn.

I know people will flame the hell outta me for speaking of that Fact.

Using DSR and/or MSAA is unrealistic? Hardly. I was running a 4k monitor and actually literally returned it because I thought the monitor was defective due to this entire false advertising and card design flaw problem. And even at 2560x1440 native that I'm now running because I sent my 4k back for a refund under a false perception due to NVidia's error, it can be run into in various games just using DSR, a much-hyped NVidia feature that AMD even implemented into its drivers recently because of how good it is and liked by gamers.

Tell me, are you the same Arbiter from PC Per's chat channel as a moderator? I'm taking a guess by your post and name here that you are... in which case you're also the same guy who, when I submitted a question in the channel during the Tom Petersen interview by PC Per of NVidia shortly after the GTX 970 launch regarding the whole SLI voltage issue (now confirmed and widely known: https://forums.geforce.com/default/topic/777448/ ) replied to my message insisting it was 100% normal behavior, then when I replied clarifying it further and showing it clearly was not, replied one more time and then stopped responding saying "No, it's normal... you have no idea what you're talking about. We are not going to ask him that."

And you do know that false advertising in the first place is illegal... right? Literally, if it had zero practical impact, and it does actually have a very real and practical impact in this case, it would still be just as big an issue for NVidia due to that alone.
 
If those feature are unrealistic, then why are they even included as features? If they are there, people might happen to use them. I know I use anti-aliasing of whatever for in EVERY single game in existance. If it doesn't support MSAA, then I'll force SMAA or MLAA or something to make the jaggies go away. There is no way I'd ever play a game without it. Just isn't. And I've set Ansiotropic filtering to 16x when I've installed the card and had it enabled ever since.
 
4k on one middle range hardware card with modern games is unrealistic. Just because the settings are there does not mean you have to turn them on.

That said, this flaw is still a very huge flaw. I'm not defending NVIDIAs behavior, I did enough of that on false understanding of the issue earlier. I'm just explaining what I think he meant.
 
4k on one middle range hardware card with modern games is unrealistic. Just because the settings are there does not mean you have to turn them on.

That said, this flaw is still a very huge flaw. I'm not defending NVIDIAs behavior, I did enough of that on false understanding of the issue earlier. I'm just explaining what I think he meant.

Two cards, and they're the second-fastest NVidia even sells (hardly mid-range, and equivalent to the top cards that AMD sells at all to boot). Just to put things in perspective :).
 
Fair enough. Thanks for clarifying.
 
Two cards, and they're the second-fastest NVidia even sells (hardly mid-range, and equivalent to the top cards that AMD sells at all to boot). Just to put things in perspective :).

Actually, it IS midrange. It is the mid-range Maxwell chip, is what he's referring to. Yes, both it and the 980 are the highest performance cards in the lineup, but that doesn't change the hierarchy of the chip.
 
Actually, it IS midrange. It is the mid-range Maxwell chip, is what he's referring to. Yes, both it and the 980 are the highest performance cards in the lineup, but that doesn't change the hierarchy of the chip.

It gets me how NVIDIA are positioning these as the top end cards and pricing them as such. It's just a backdoor way to significantly increase the price of their cards to gouge extra profits from the punters and they have been doing this since Kepler.

I paid a massive £500 for my 780 Ti a year ago and it wouldn't surprise me if the true top Maxwell costs in the region of £600-£700. I certainly won't be buying it at such a ridiculous price, even if I can afford it.
 
Yeah, since they started it with the 600 series, and then did it again for the 900 series, it wouldn't surprise me if they keep this up every other card series.

I think part of the problem is AMD needs to get more high end cards to the market quickly, but they don't have the R&D, so Nvidia doesn't have to release their top-grade chip every card series anymore.
 
Indeed, it's all down to competition. What a shame when it comes to things like this. The GTX 970 fiasco is another symptom of this.
 
they should of owned up when it was launched in the first place or never launched it.
 
The ROP and L2 count are NOT THE ISSUE. We need to get that out of the way, because they don't change the reviews and performance we all saw before and after the GTX 970's release. If you felt you were lied to/duped/tricked/mislead about that in particular, then maybe tech isn't a hobby you should continue.

The ONLY issue is the performance, or lack thereof, of the 0.5GB memory pool when accessed, and until someone credible can PROVE without a shadow of a doubt that it is in fact handicapping the card, then threads like these are a huge waste of time, because right now, it is 100% speculation, and I don't do speculation. I'm a techie so speculation is about as good as gossip and rumors.

Wake me when there is something relevant to read on the issue...
 
The ONLY issue is the performance, or lack thereof, of the 0.5GB memory pool when accessed, and until someone credible can PROVE without a shadow of a doubt that it is in fact handicapping the card, then threads like these are a huge waste of time, because right now, it is 100% speculation, and I don't do speculation. I'm a techie so speculation is about as good as gossip and rumors.

How is this thread speculation if the OP is a current GTX 970 owner reporting that frame times have random variance and shows data that backs that up? I know there are several people that haven't experience that, even on the same games that people say have problems but, for example, I've never experienced the AMD black screen crash and that doesn't mean that the people that have reported it are trolls or delusional. No two PCs are the same.
 
this problem with the ram etc is rampant, Nvidia shouldnt have advertised this board as 4GB but 3.5
 
That doesn't make the problem non-existent. If your card doesn't exhibit the stuttering GoldenTiger is experiencing, congrats! But that still doesn't solve GoldeTiger's issue.
 
this problem with the ram etc is rampant, Nvidia shouldnt have advertised this board as 4GB but 3.5

That wouldn't make the slower 0.5GB pool and its potential effects go away. If you think the problem is what was incorrectly listed on the box, then you're already behind.
 
That wouldn't make the slower 0.5GB pool and its potential affects go away. If you think the problem is what was listed on the box, then you're already behind.

Already read the articles, In the end Nvidia should of never launched the board in the crippled state it is in, now people are returning them for false advertisement.

Nvidia seriously would have to relaunch the 970 as a 972 to fix the flaws found.
 
Already read the articles, In the end Nvidia should of never launched the board in the crippled state it is in, now people are returning them for false advertisement.

Nvidia seriously would have to relaunch the 970 as a 972 to fix the flaws found.

There is no proof. Reviewers and tech sites are even waiting for a better way to test to VERIFY that is the case.

btw, they could fix it with a new revision (think P8P67 SATA bug (B3), not a different model number.
 
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