HDMI for audio only - force a super low resolution?

[Mussels]

My current setup is Geforce 970 -> 4K monitor, with a second HDMI cable going from my intel onboard to my 5.1 receiver.

Technically i can do this from the nvidia card, but this works out easier as the Nvidia card isnt forced into a higher power state.

This does require windows to be in 'extended' mode (4K prevents me doing duplicate without a new receiver) and therefore i have a second 800x600 monitor hanging around, just waiting to steal my cursor or desktop icons where i cannot see them.

It occured to me forcing that virtual monitor to a very low resolution would resolve that problem and allow me to properly run HDMI audio without messing anything up - but windows wont let me go below 800x600

Does anyone know how i could go about forcing a really low res video signal like 1x1, without breaking the audio or making it difficult to get video output back later?

 

[slozomby]

you can disable the display portion in the NVidia control panel in extended mode. this should still let you use it for audio under the sound manager control panel.

 

[Caring1]

Doesn't your Motherboard have Optical Audio Spdif?

Edit: You can also pick up an audio splitter fairly cheap, that has HDMI pass through.

 

[Mussels]

Doesn't your Motherboard have Optical Audio Spdif?

If i wanted crippled audio, i'd buy apple earpods.

you can disable the display portion in the NVidia control panel in extended mode. this should still let you use it for audio under the sound manager control panel.

teach me, oh wise one. I can't seem to find options to do that, without the audio going away.

This is the best i can get, with a 640x480 extension in the top left corner

 

[slozomby]

my bad. I just moved my receiver into the office to try this on the same card. I could have sworn it let me do this in the past.

you should be able to prevent it from stealing your cursors by duplicating the desktop rather than extending it.

per your picture both hdmi are on the NVidia card. I though you had one as the onboard and one as the NVidia card.

 

[Mussels]

my bad. I just moved my receiver into the office to try this on the same card. I could have sworn it let me do this in the past.

you should be able to prevent it from stealing your cursors by duplicating the desktop rather than extending it.

per your picture both hdmi are on the NVidia card. I though you had one as the onboard and one as the NVidia card.

duplicate cant work because my main screen is 4K, and my receiver is 1080p - unless they're a perfect match you cant duplicate.

 

[Brusfantomet]

duplicate cant work because my main screen is 4K, and my receiver is 1080p - unless they're a perfect match you cant duplicate.

in windows 10 you can duplicate with different resolutions. Had the same trubble as you (my screen was 2560 x 1600 but otherwise the same) after updating to windows 10 it worked. It is one of the new features of WDDM 2.0

 

[Bill_Bright]

I love HDMI in my home theater setup. I hate HDMI with my computers. The only reason we have HDMI with our computers is the monitor/TV industry didn't want to deal with both DVI and HDMI connector support - so they shoved HDMI down on us even though the vast majority of users feed the audio from our sound cards (integrated or add-on) to our speakers and not to those lousy, tinny speakers integrated into monitors.

Since audio is embedded in the blanking intervals of HDMI video, I don't see how you can disable video completely. I believe there is also an issue where if you drop the resolution below 720p, multi-channel hi-rez audio cannot be sent at all - just 2-channel (stereo).

Have you thought about something like this?

 

[Vayra86]

Go optical and never look back. It's a 100% lossless PCM stream, let your receiver do whatever it wants with it. I don't see why optical 'would cripple' your output at all. It definitely beats analog.

Keep it simple... Sound isn't rocket science. Just a lossless throughput is all you need, and then all that matters is decent speakers coupled with decent receiver.

 

[Brusfantomet]

Go optical and never look back. It's a 100% lossless PCM stream, let your receiver do whatever it wants with it. I don't see why optical 'would cripple' your output at all. It definitely beats analog.

Keep it simple... Sound isn't rocket science. Just a lossless throughput is all you need, and then all that matters is decent speakers coupled with decent receiver.

Optical 5.1 is not PCM streams, both DTS and DD uses compression to get 6 channels through somersetting designed for 2. HDMI supports 7.1 PCM streams.

Also, if you want 5.1 from games though optical your sound card must support DTS or DD compression in the fly, for DTS this is called "DTS connect", and most sound cards lack the feature.

But, as i already have written, since you are using Windows 10 you have the possibility to duplicated screens with different resolutions.

 

[Vayra86]

Optical 5.1 is not PCM streams, both DTS and DD uses compression to get 6 channels through somersetting designed for 2. HDMI supports 7.1 PCM streams.

Also, if you want 5.1 from games though optical your sound card must support DTS or DD compression in the fly, for DTS this is called "DTS connect", and most sound cards lack the feature.

But, as i already have written, since you are using Windows 10 you have the possibility to duplicated screens with different resolutions.

Ah yes, correct about 5.1. I just use linear stereo PCM on it and let my receiver do five channel stereo conversion, and I can hardly distinguish it from 'true' surround actually. Works a treat, mostly for music because you can go back to 2 ch stereo at any time by just the press of a button. And it definitely sounds better for music if you have 2 ch stereo output instead of a 5.1 output.

Pros and cons, but most of all, its not correct that optical is lossy or 'crippling audio'.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Go optical and never look back.

I totally disagree. Optical is certainly better than analog but HDMI can pass higher resolution audio including formats used by Blu-Ray such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio which CANNOT be passed over optical.

And sorry, but if you can "hardly distinguish" simulated surround sound from discrete surround sound then you either have lousy speakers or much poorer hearing than me - and I'm pushing 65 years old and worked on or next to a USAF flightline for 24+ years - not to mention loud rock!

In NO WAY is optical a poor solution and it is doubtful anyone will actually hear the difference - except with dedicated, concentrated music-only listening. That is, when using the computer or watching a video (where your attention is split between sight and sound), most content will sound great. Some discrete directional sounds (from back to front, for example) may sound less defined however, but still good.

 

[Brusfantomet]

I agree that there is no noticeable difference between DTS and 6 channel PCM.

Listening to music when running 5.1 PCM through HDMI leaves me with sound only from the front speakers at least.

 

[Vayra86]

I totally disagree. Optical is certainly better than analog but HDMI can pass higher resolution audio including formats used by Blu-Ray such as Dolby TrueHD or DTS HD Master Audio which CANNOT be passed over optical.

And sorry, but if you can "hardly distinguish" simulated surround sound from discrete surround sound then you either have lousy speakers or much poorer hearing than me - and I'm pushing 65 years old and worked on or next to a USAF flightline for 24+ years - not to mention loud rock!

In NO WAY is optical a poor solution and it is doubtful anyone will actually hear the difference - except with dedicated, concentrated music-only listening. That is, when using the computer or watching a video (where your attention is split between sight and sound), most content will sound great. Some discrete directional sounds (from back to front, for example) may sound less defined however, but still good.

My hearing is quite fine, but still, apart from a very small selection of highly positional effects, the difference between 5ch stereo surround with 2ch audio is very, very small. And my experience is that while gaming after a few minutes all that matters is the general direction of sound, the accuracy of discrete is pretty much lost after you get into the game. I've ran discrete surround AND 5 ch stereo surround on the same PC, same set of speakers and same receiver and eventually came down to just sticking to this solution. I can still hear that helicopter going from back-left to front-right speakers for example. I can hear bullet casings fall behind me. All just with simulated 'wide' stereo. And that's across over 10 years of listening on this same setup, in different rooms of different sizes.

While technically you are fully correct, in the end the actual noticeable difference is extremely minimal. But its personal too. I prefer focusing my setup on stereo music above discrete surround, because music across 5.1 is dreadful. And it most definitely beats running a second monitor just to push audio across HDMI proper.

FYI, my setup is an AVR137 + HKTS speakers from Harman Kardon (no PC speaker junk here)

 

[nomdeplume]

I suspect you are aware of not going about this in the ideal manner. HDMI is a way to output video that carries sound. Your receiver adds degradation and complication, by diverting it from a direct path, which it attempts to digitally correct and amplify while matching clocks with the video signal. Splitting audio out of the stream using a converter will be much worse.

Optical/spdif is at least audio only. A high quality audio file being output through an audio card into a receiver isn't going to produce outstanding results either. Not even sure you have an audio card anyways.

The actual solution is really simple since you're going through a receiver. 3.5mm stereo plug to RCA cable. You should have no problem choosing a channel to output sound on.

 

[Brusfantomet]

I suspect you are aware of not going about this in the ideal manner. HDMI is a way to output video that carries sound. Your receiver adds degradation and complication, by diverting it from a direct path, which it attempts to digitally correct and amplify while matching clocks with the video signal. Splitting audio out of the stream using a converter will be much worse.

Optical/spdif is at least audio only. A high quality audio file being output through an audio card into a receiver isn't going to produce outstanding results either. Not even sure you have an audio card anyways.

The actual solution is really simple since you're going through a receiver. 3.5mm stereo plug to RCA cable. You should have no problem choosing a channel to output sound on.

Actually, using spdif the signal is encoded as PCM, the same way its encoded over HDMI, but HDMI can carry more channels. Using an analogue output to get 5.1 is possible. Also, when using PCM digital output the audio card (in the case of using the HDMI output on the GPU the GPU becomes the audio card) the card itself does minimal if at all any processing on the signal. Jumping to analogue output is much worse than having the receiver do the D\A conversion unless he has a very good audio card.

 

[Vayra86]

Yeah I would also stay far, far away from the 3.5mm jack solution because those cables, even the good ones, are very prone to signal loss or temporary signal loss and damage to the cable. The slightest movement of the jack can cause static too, especially as components age a bit. Been there done that with my laptop(s) but the sound quality is questionable too compared to optical - the analog signal strength is also highly dependant on the audio chip on the board, which isn't really the case with digital.

 

[Bill_Bright]

but still, apart from a very small selection of highly positional effects, the difference between 5ch stereo surround with 2ch audio is very, very small.

Well, this is where are in total disagreement. For simple music content, I do agree. But for any movie recorded with "discrete" surround sound or any game coded with "discrete" surround sound content, it is all about the positional effects and you absolutely can discern the difference between discrete surround sound and simulated surround sound.

I don't know what HKTS speakers you are referring to but I note many discerning listeners I know spend $1000 (or many times more) for just one speaker, not an entire 5.1 system. I note audiophile electronics was my first love before computers as a technician. My budget and family obligations never allowed me to indulge in the gear I wanted, but, for example, my sub alone cost more than most people budget for audio gear. And while my hearing is not that of an 18 year old, I can sure tell where sound is coming from. Even with my decent (but not great) Onkyo it is very easy to tell simulated from discrete.

As for using a 3.5mm stereo plug, that is totally analog and the least desirable option you could ever choose - if fidelity is a concern that is - except maybe with earbuds.

 

[Vayra86]

Well, this is where are in total disagreement. For simple music content, I do agree. But for any movie recorded with "discrete" surround sound or any game coded with "discrete" surround sound content, it is all about the positional effects and you absolutely can discern the difference between discrete surround sound and simulated surround sound.

I don't know what HKTS speakers you are referring to but I note many discerning listeners I know spend $1000 (or many times more) for just one speaker, not an entire 5.1 system. I note audiophile electronics was my first love before computers as a technician. My budget and family obligations never allowed me to indulge in the gear I wanted, but, for example, my sub alone cost more than most people budget for audio gear. And while my hearing is not that of an 18 year old, I can sure tell where sound is coming from. Even with my decent (but not great) Onkyo it is very easy to tell simulated from discrete.

As for using a 3.5mm stereo plug, that is totally analog and the least desirable option you could ever choose - if fidelity is a concern that is - except maybe with earbuds.

Ah, we enter the realm of audiophiles with your listening preferences I see. I'll state right away, I'm not that guy I shoot a bit lower with my audio. For the living room, we got ourselves a set of Teufel Ultima 40 MK2's. I really don't feel the need to spend more on my audio and the differences become very marginal in the higher price segments. With regards to OP, and the fact we're talking about multichannel, that also doesn't strike me as audiophile.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Yeah, but fidelity (that is, the faithful reproduction of the audio) and positional effects are two different things. You can still locate the exact source of a sound from a cheap rear speaker in a multi-speaker set up if the signal source is from a discrete source - that is, not a simulated rear signal simulated from a 2-channel (stereo) source. That is the point of disagreement we have, noting where you said,

the difference between 5ch stereo surround with 2ch audio is very, very small.

But, that is for another discussion as I don't want to derail this thread further.

 

[nomdeplume]

To be clear we are talking about computer gaming not Class A amps or $50K stacks in a heavily carpeted room. Take into account the level of audio requirements and equipment.

The $10 fix I suggested was independent of the quality of his receiver for the task. Actually listen to the OP and you'll see the focus of his question wasn't sort out my entire audio setup and here's a budget. It was "Make my receiver work in a way that doesn't inherently make me hate using my computer. HDMI is technically capable but poorly suited for the task." Run what ya brung when good enough is good enough!



If his headphone port is so worn out and incapable of producing sound and his computer so incapable of producing a signal and to top it off the cord is so prone to breaking, it just wouldn't work at all would it? Or at least only marginally better than sticking a spdif cable somewhere into the ass end of his GPU.

 

[Grings]

Is this with a monitor or with the tv listed in your specs?

If its with the tv have you tried plugging the computer into 1 hdmi on the tv, the amp into another and send the audio to the amp via hdmi-arc (audio return channel)?

 

[Mussels]

in windows 10 you can duplicate with different resolutions. Had the same trubble as you (my screen was 2560 x 1600 but otherwise the same) after updating to windows 10 it worked. It is one of the new features of WDDM 2.0

huh, that actually did work. it pushed me to 1080p but let me change back to 4K.

cant be done if refresh rates are different, but in this case it worked out.

Is this with a monitor or with the tv listed in your specs?

If its with the tv have you tried plugging the computer into 1 hdmi on the tv, the amp into another and send the audio to the amp via hdmi-arc (audio return channel)?

My receiver doesnt support ARC - but brusfantomet above posted an unlikely solution.

 

[Brusfantomet]

huh, that actually did work. it pushed me to 1080p but let me change back to 4K.

cant be done if refresh rates are different, but in this case it worked out.

That is good, it probably does not work with different Hz monitors as you stated, but for running the same picture to the same monitor its a OK solution, since the Hz will be the same.

 

[hat]

Wow, and here I thought it would be simple to send audio only through HDMI. One HDMI (or whatever) to the monitor, one HDMI to the receiver... that doesn't work?