Intel coffeelake and AMD Ryzen

[phanbuey]

You just said "Multi threaded FTW" and you're wondering why I'd want a Threadripper beast of a machine? TR is the ultimate multi-threader. Ideally I can save some floor space in my house because I have too many systems as it is already, and by being able to conjoin everything into one system instead of having to have two different systems, it would be a lot easier for me (and save space etc.).

so there is little difference between 4.1 and 3.95 - the bottom line is that games DO NOT like ryzen's cache structure... I get perf all over the place but that is just me - i haven't seen it in many reviews.

As far as multithreading - that is sometimes a lie a lie; games stream textures from the HDD, and they also use your memory throughput ALOT i.e. ryzen is starved for memory. Trust me - while gaming you will feel windows defender kick on, nevermind an encoder... some apps don't hog up the bus, but some do -- and those you will feel.

You have a chance to buy something new, don't try to compromise and go mediocre -- you wont be happy. Get what you know is the best for the thing you enjoy, and what works for work.

 

[btarunr]

I don't think Intel will launch i7-8700K at $329 (Ryzen 7 1700 price). I expect it to be closer to $379 at launch. But I think it will be worth it to wait and spend those extra $50 on the i7-8700K because it's performing in the league of the 1800X.

 

[Rehmanpa]

so there is little difference between 4.1 and 3.95 - the bottom line is that games DO NOT like ryzen's cache structure... I get perf all over the place but that is just me - i haven't seen it in many reviews.

As far as multithreading - that is sometimes a lie a lie; games stream textures from the HDD, and they also use your memory throughput ALOT i.e. ryzen is starved for memory. Trust me - while gaming you will feel windows defender kick on, nevermind an encoder... some apps don't hog up the bus, but some do -- and those you will feel.

You have a chance to buy something new, don't try to compromise and go mediocre -- you wont be happy. Get what you know is the best for the thing you enjoy, and what works for work.

Well wouldn't having say 32gb of quad channel ddr4 running at 2933mhz+ be helpful with those memory issues? What would you suggest instead of a compromise? Threadripper to me seems like the non-compromising supreme platform that can both game and render/do HEDT stuff at a pretty darn reasonable price (at least compared to Intel).

 

[de.das.dude]

You just said "Multi threaded FTW" and you're wondering why I'd want a Threadripper beast of a machine? TR is the ultimate multi-threader. Ideally I can save some floor space in my house because I have too many systems as it is already, and by being able to conjoin everything into one system instead of having to have two different systems, it would be a lot easier for me (and save space etc.).

To be honest with you, if you run too many things on one CPU (even if its a TR) i doubt any OS is good enough to handle all the threads well enough for hasslefree gaming.

If its just streaming/encoding besides gaming its fine, but too many different workloads might become iffy.

Although threadripper dosnt provide top notch FPS, its not bad. For me anything over 60FPS is considered as future proofing.


As for the TR mobos being expensive, as many said, well they are going to be enterprise grade stuff, so ofcourse it will be more expensive. TR isnt a normal desktop processor, its supposed to replace opterons and the xeons in servers that run 24x7.

 

[drade]

I hate to bring up the whole intel vs. AMD discussion here. But I am torn, 8700k or 1700x. OP did you end up upgrading? Coffee lake seems like a better bang for the buck gaming/OC wise where as Ryzen has the multi thread price per performance thing going for it.

 

[Rehmanpa]

I hate to bring up the whole intel vs. AMD discussion here. But I am torn, 8700k or 1700x. OP did you end up upgrading? Coffee lake seems like a better bang for the buck gaming/OC wise where as Ryzen has the multi thread price per performance thing going for it.

I havent upgraded yet. I'm seriously considering trying to get a threadripper setup because of all the pcie lanes, high performance and other various features of it. I like streaming so having more cores would actually be beneficial. 8700k is basically going to be a i7 7700k with 2 more cores, which will for productivity place it somewhere between a 1600 and a 1700, but the thing costs a lot more. If I were you I would buy a ryzen 1700 at this point and get the gigabyte gaming k5 motherboard for like 160 usd.

 

[Rehmanpa]

I hate to bring up the whole intel vs. AMD discussion here. But I am torn, 8700k or 1700x. OP did you end up upgrading? Coffee lake seems like a better bang for the buck gaming/OC wise where as Ryzen has the multi thread price per performance thing going for it.

Turns out there's a newegg sale for that combo.
https://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboBundleDetails.aspx?ItemList=Combo.3580325

figured you'd be interested in knowing about it.

 

[Toothless]

That double post...


As Erocker said, even older chips are still performing just fine and personally I don't see a reason for all these huge thread count chips since no one is going to max them out unless you're making videos for your wannabe YouTube channel or doing something useful like WCG. I've spoken with him a few times on how our 4790k's perform in this or that and honestly it warrants no upgrades.

 

[P4-630]

I'm seriously considering trying to get a threadripper setup because of all the pcie lanes, high performance and other various features of it.

Hell yeah!!
If you got cash to burn, why not!!

/thread

 

[Eroticus]

What is the point to upgrade 4790k ? for extra 20% performance per core and 2 more cores ?

 

[Vayra86]

I would be really interested - the worst place was Witcher 3 in the first town white orchard - as you run through it does it stutter a bit? The other was running around Prague in Deus Ex, Mankind divided - it just kind of lurches around. nothing under 90 fps on the mins for both games (some settings turned down).

TW3 still is a heavy, unstable piece of crap if you're being critical about this. It can run butter smooth and still get the occasional slowdown which is most certainly a CPU usage spike. These spikes occur during auto saves but also in area transitions. Alt tabbing also still isn't something the game likes, and if you have a browser open next to it or something else that's eating RAM bandwidth, it can also cause problems. Its very playable, but these issues have never gone away since launch.

No amount of hardware can fix bad code or just heavy load spikes in the game.

 

[FYFI13]

What is the point to upgrade 4790k ? for extra 20% performance per core and 2 more cores ?

Pretty much. There are CPU hungry games such as Arma, Ark Survival, PUBG, etc where +20% really matters even when playing at 1080p/60Hz.

For example in Arma 3 Wasteland, i stopped near Georgestown - 36FPS then with Intel XTU i bumped up CPU clockspeed from 4.2GHz to 5GHz and FPS went up to 43 immediately. You might say not a lot, but it really feels in game.
I play almost exclusively Arma 3 and seriously planing to replace my 4790k with either 8600K or 8700K only because of single core performance improvements.

 

[EarthDog]

What is the point to upgrade 4790k ? for extra 20% performance per core and 2 more cores ?

lol, yes. Seems like a good reason to me, especially if he can use the cores.

 

[phanbuey]

TW3 still is a heavy, unstable piece of crap if you're being critical about this. It can run butter smooth and still get the occasional slowdown which is most certainly a CPU usage spike. These spikes occur during auto saves but also in area transitions. Alt tabbing also still isn't something the game likes, and if you have a browser open next to it or something else that's eating RAM bandwidth, it can also cause problems. Its very playable, but these issues have never gone away since launch.

No amount of hardware can fix bad code or just heavy load spikes in the game.

I dont get any spikes with the 7820x ... and they would go away based on certain bios settings (i.e. memory settings) - witht the R7; same in Deus ex - it's easy to blame the software but when multiple titles exhibit the same type of behavior then it is likely a platform issue.

 

[Rehmanpa]

I dont get any spikes with the 7820x ... and they would go away based on certain bios settings (i.e. memory settings) - witht the R7; same in Deus ex - it's easy to blame the software but when multiple titles exhibit the same type of behavior then it is likely a platform issue.

I hadn't realized you switched back to intel from Amds ryzen. How does the 7820k compare to your previous 1800x?

 

[drade]

I dont get any spikes with the 7820x ... and they would go away based on certain bios settings (i.e. memory settings) - witht the R7; same in Deus ex - it's easy to blame the software but when multiple titles exhibit the same type of behavior then it is likely a platform issue.

Why did you switch back to intel from AMD if you don't mind me asking?

How is the 7820x? Looks like a solid performer. Curious to see how coffee lake compares.

 

[phanbuey]

Why did you switch back to intel from AMD if you don't mind me asking?

How is the 7820x? Looks like a solid performer. Curious to see how coffee lake compares.

On my personal rig i do about 30% side dev projects and about 70% gaming - I just found i had to compromise a bit too much with the r7 1800x - the platform played poorly with the 1080ti on some of titles at high fps (deus x, witcher 3, fallout 4, Farcry 4 etc.) and I just would spend wayyyyy too much tpu / gaming time tweaking and trying to make it run right.

I have an AMD workstation rig at work that I LOVE for data development - R7 1700 with a 3tb SQL array 32gbs ram etc. etc. and that thing runs awesome and never gets rebooted.
Bur for gaming/general use the 1800x wasn't really cutting it for a high-end build.

I hadn't realized you switched back to intel from Amds ryzen. How does the 7820k compare to your previous 1800x?

Overall: once overclocked the 7820x system runs much faster, games are smoother and +30fps in some extreme instances - but only if you OC the mesh and the ram, -- it does boot slower but w/e
Full settings between 1800x vs 7820x
- 4ghz @ 1.45v vs 4.64Ghz at 1.16v
Ram: (Same Sticks) @ 1.38v
- DUAL 3200mhz 16-16-16-32-1t vs QUAD 3434mhz 16-18-18-38-2t
Aida 64 ram #'s
-74ns latency vs 58ns
- 49 GB/s Read vs 92GB/s
Firestrike score
- 9900 vs 10100
CPU-z Bench
- 454 / 4870 r7 vs 537/5416 7820x

Fully overclocked the 7820x walks away from the r7 line and starts putting up a fight with the 1920x.

 

[drade]

On my personal rig i do about 30% side dev projects and about 70% gaming - I just found i had to compromise a bit too much with the r7 1800x - the platform played poorly with the 1080ti on some of titles at high fps (deus x, witcher 3, fallout 4, Farcry 4 etc.) and I just would spend wayyyyy too much tpu / gaming time tweaking and trying to make it run right.

I have an AMD workstation rig at work that I LOVE for data development - R7 1700 with a 3tb SQL array 32gbs ram etc. etc. and that thing runs awesome and never gets rebooted.
Bur for gaming/general use the 1800x wasn't really cutting it for a high-end build.



Overall: once overclocked the 7820x system runs much faster, games are smoother and +30fps in some extreme instances - but only if you OC the mesh and the ram, -- it does boot slower but w/e
Full settings between 1800x vs 7820x
- 4ghz @ 1.45v vs 4.64Ghz at 1.16v
Ram: (Same Sticks) @ 1.38v
- DUAL 3200mhz 16-16-16-32-1t vs QUAD 3434mhz 16-18-18-38-2t
Aida 64 ram #'s
-74ns latency vs 58ns
- 49 GB/s Read vs 92GB/s
Firestrike score
- 9900 vs 10100
CPU-z Bench
- 454 / 4870 r7 vs 537/5416 7820x
View attachment 92000

Fully overclocked the 7820x walks away from the r7 line and starts putting up a fight with the 1920x.

pretty much why I think I will go coffe lake.. Ryzen just ain't cutting it with the gaming industry. My brother has the 1700x and had quite a few issues with his 1080Ti as well.

 

[Cvrk]

because it's performing in the league of the 1800X.

...................

It's the same exact cpu with 200MHz more. That still will never go above 4ghz oc. It's the same Mercedes S class, just with wood on the steering wheel . Why would you w8 for coffee lake, when you can save money today with Ryzen 1700x.

Or you can w8 if you have the time, if not in a hurry, cuz the way i understand the OP is not.
In my case i needed a pc today, so i went with Ryzen

 

[Vayra86]

pretty much why I think I will go coffe lake.. Ryzen just ain't cutting it with the gaming industry. My brother has the 1700x and had quite a few issues with his 1080Ti as well.

Ryzen for gaming is like buying into the gaming performance you could get in 2012 @ mainstream CPUs. Yes you get more cores, but beyond that, it adds nothing for gaming. For any new build that is more than fine and good performance, for anyone upgrading from an i5 2500k or better, there is almost no IPC change and Ryzen also doesn't offer the clockspeed advantage. Bottom line, its a sidegrade for 90% of all games, and will only show improvements in well threaded game engines of which there are some, but they aren't dominant yet.

So yes, Coffee Lake it is

 

[Devon68]

Ryzen for gaming is like buying into the gaming performance you could get in 2012

I bought my FX-6100 in 2012

 

[Frick]

Ryzen for gaming is like buying into the gaming performance you could get in 2012 @ mainstream CPUs. Yes you get more cores, but beyond that, it adds nothing for gaming. For any new build that is more than fine and good performance, for anyone upgrading from an i5 2500k or better, there is almost no IPC change and Ryzen also doesn't offer the clockspeed advantage. Bottom line, its a sidegrade for 90% of all games, and will only show improvements in well threaded game engines of which there are some, but they aren't dominant yet.

So yes, Coffee Lake it is

Technicaly Ryzen has roughly Haswell IPC, but yeah for hardcore lowlifes gamers Intel is the way to go ... which really is not surprising or unexpected or even bad.

 

[r9]

I can stream and game just fine on an Intel processor 3 generations old. Get whatever is cheaper and spend your cash on other things. Performance wise, the difference rarely matters, other than what the manufacturers want to burn into your head as talking points.

What he is trying to says is Ryzen 1600/B350 is the way to go.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

Ryzen for gaming is like buying into the gaming performance you could get in 2012 @ mainstream CPUs. Yes you get more cores, but beyond that, it adds nothing for gaming. For any new build that is more than fine and good performance, for anyone upgrading from an i5 2500k or better, there is almost no IPC change and Ryzen also doesn't offer the clockspeed advantage. Bottom line, its a sidegrade for 90% of all games, and will only show improvements in well threaded game engines of which there are some, but they aren't dominant yet.

So yes, Coffee Lake it is

I think your being to extreme, an i5 2500k is not that good and a Ryzens not that bad.
All in it depends on what the end user plays but an i7 950 which came after said chip but has 8 logic cores got swapped for an R1700 by a friend with a gtx 1080ti ,he has no issues bar then maintaining his much loved 3200mhz memory speed ,and his cpu is way better than you suggest at stock but like any can be his is overclocked and easily whips a 2500k , let's not exagerate so wildly.

At 4k all this cpu lag stuff becomes non existent , an fx 8350 keeps up with most intel chips in games at that res but obviously isn't capable at 1080p ,it really depends upon the Ops gaming choices much more than the concensus of opinion, and his wallet.

 

[Rehmanpa]

Well with the latest releases of benchmarks for the 8700k, glad I held off on purchasing anything. I just want them to release an 8 core variant of the 8700k with a not ridiculous price tag, and maybe some pcie lanes, and a decent motherboard chipset, and who the hell am I kidding, Intel won't do that

More seriously noted though is the absolute amazing performance the thing gives across all 6 cores. I think it's probably worth considering over a ryzen 1700.

edit: Does anybody have any detailed information on the platform specifications for it? Will it only have a measly 16 pcie lanes?