So... advertising CD Key sites

[lexluthermiester]

Here's that spot where you could provide some useful material to help people find where they went wrong instead of just saying you're rubber and they're glue.

Because I feel no need to prove something that is commonly known and easily researched.

If you're so confident in statute and case law then why haven't you simply quoted either of those pages ago when such strong evidence would have swiftly ended a debate you've now spent multiple pages dragging out?

Well, you see, I'm standing my ground and am not going back down. You and others have been calling me, and both directly and indirectly TPU, out on various details without offering so much as a shred of evidence to prove, or mildly support your stance. I and others have been offering common sense points and have been met with little more than nonsense. On this issue you are calling the owner, administrators and staff of TPU dishonest at best, thieving pirates at worst. You all are making the accusations, so you all can do the proving up. I'm not going to back down, agree to disagree or give a flying rat's butt what you say until you have evidence and proof of wrongdoing.

This is getting a little personal...

But it is amusing..

I'd gladly discuss statutes and case law if the person relying on them would provide the evidence that backs up his position.

See above and go do your own research.

 

[sneekypeet]

I'd gladly discuss statutes and case law if the person relying on them would provide the evidence that backs up his position.

Then continue this line in PMs. Things are indeed getting a bit too personal. This goes for you as well @lexluthermiester

 

[Assimilator]

It isn't even about whether these sites are legitimate or not, you know. It's about the fact that they appear dodgy, and what associating with such dodgy sites does to TPU's image and, indirectly, the image of its staff. "It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it." Not to mention that more above-board sponsors, like the Thermaltakes and Seasonics, are almost certain to choose not to advertise on a site that is linked to grey-market CD key sellers.

If cashflow is that much of a problem, start punting the TPU Patreon at the top of every news article or somesuch. But whatever you do, drop these CD key sellers like a hotcake, because they are bad news that can only come back to bite TPU in the end.

 

[lexluthermiester]

It's about the fact that they appear dodgy, and what associating with such dodgy sites does to TPU's image

But that's just it, it's a perception thing. Consider this; These kinds of sites are breaking new ground on an old idea. It's a shift in business model that is seemingly proving to be profitable. It's not "gray market" if it's widely accepted and utilized on both sides of the etail equation. These sites are acting as a middle-man distributor similar to the way brick&mortar retailers once were.

For better or worse, TPU is participating in something that is changing the way we all buy software. These kinds of sites add a privacy buffer between buyers and publishers, an important concern for many. And they do it at a reduced cost to the buyer. Everyone wins.

 

[notb]

Well, you see, I'm standing my ground and am not going back down. You and others have been calling me, and both directly and indirectly TPU, out on various details without offering so much as a shred of evidence to prove, or mildly support your stance. I and others have been offering common sense points and have been met with little more than nonsense. On this issue you are calling the owner, administrators and staff of TPU dishonest at best, thieving pirates at worst. You all are making the accusations, so you all can do the proving up. I'm not going to back down, agree to disagree or give a flying rat's butt what you say until you have evidence and proof of wrongdoing.

You want us to prove what?
That the keys are bad? Almost impossible.
That a site has no rights to sell keys? Wrong approach. A shop should give a guarantee that the item is legitimate.

When you go to a shop and you have doubts about it being legitimate, you don't have to prove them anything. They're required by law to show you that their business activity is registered and legal.
When you go to a doctor and he seems really bad at his job, you don't have to prove him he doesn't have qualifications. He's required to show you his license, diploma etc.

This is how business works. A customer is allowed to demand proof that everything is done according to law and that offered items are fine.
I've actually e-mailed "ekoffers" and asked for some basic data. No response yet. I've actually created an e-mail account just for this purpose, but afterwards I though "meh... they might have the e-mail I use at TPU anyway".

But that's just it, it's a perception thing. Consider this; These kinds of sites are breaking new ground on an old idea. It's a shift in business model that is seemingly proving to be profitable. It's not "gray market" if it's widely accepted and utilized on both sides of the etail equation. These sites are acting as a middle-man distributor similar to the way brick&mortar retailers once were.

Prove us that the party behind www.ekoffers.com is a registered business. I promise I'll get over your support for piracy. Word of honour.

 

[lexluthermiester]

That the keys are bad? Almost impossible.

No, actually impossible.

That a site has no rights to sell keys? Wrong approach.

Agreed, moronic approach. And that's not what I said.

When you go to a shop and you have doubts about it being legitimate, you don't have to prove them anything.

They don't have to prove anything to you either. You have two choices; Do business with them or not do business with them.

They're required by law to show you that their business activity is registered and legal.

Sure, but they do not have to share confidential information such as purchase agreements or distribution agreements. That's their business, not yours.

I've actually e-mailed "ekoffers" and asked for some basic data.

Which they have no obligation to share with you. Instead, why don't you contact Microsoft? Asking them is easy.(Noticing that the detractors are doing their best to dodge that point.)

No response yet.

And you're not likely to get one. They have no obligations to answer you or grant you privileged information.

Prove us that the party behind www.ekoffers.com is a registered business.

Why? I have no such obligation. You're making the accusation. You prove up.

I promise I'll get over your support for piracy. Word of honour.

Oh ok. So once again, someone is making an accusation without evidence or merit. Sensing an pattern here... Really very sad...

That ignore button is getting a workout today..

 

[Assimilator]

But that's just it, it's a perception thing. Consider this; These kinds of sites are breaking new ground on an old idea. It's a shift in business model that is seemingly proving to be profitable. It's not "gray market" if it's widely accepted and utilized on both sides of the etail equation. These sites are acting as a middle-man distributor similar to the way brick&mortar retailers once were.

For better or worse, TPU is participating in something that is changing the way we all buy software. These kinds of sites add a privacy buffer between buyers and publishers, an important concern for many. And they do it at a reduced cost to the buyer. Everyone wins.

Dude, seriously?

You claim to have a legal background, yet your "defence" of these sites effectively boils down to "everyone is doing it, therefore it's okay". Yeah, try running that "argument" past a judge.

Then there's the fact that everything about "ekoffers" is dodgy:

* no SSL certificate: check
* contact email is a Gmail address: check
* riddled with spelling and grammar errors: check
* blog with default articles: check
* Twitter account created in January 2019: check
* zero contact information or physical address details: check

And then there's Microsoft's very own antipiracy website: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/howtotell/Software.aspx?tab=DigitalDownloadsTabSoftwarePage

"With the exception of Product Key Cards distributed with Certificates of Authenticity (COA’s), Microsoft does not distribute products keys as standalone products. If you see a listing on an auction site, online classified ad, or other online page advertising product keys, it’s a good indication that these keys are likely stolen or counterfeit."

 

[ArbitraryAffection]

I don't buy from key selling sites, but my friends do. My opinion is that they are a bit shady and when I buy a great game I want the money to go to the Devs. Not sure if they will see any of it if I buy from a key site..

I mean are those key stolen? If so why are publishers not taking them to court?

About TPU promoting the key sites , well I'm fine with it as long as it's all 100% legal. But obviously that's in question so I think that TPU should stop promoting them. I will gladly support TPU with patreon, I am going to look into that also I don't block ads.

 

[BorgOvermind]

@qubit your logic is a little flawed there at the end about the $10 planet. Let's assume I want to sell a brand new type of servers as a company. Absolutely nothing can prevent me from getting large amounts of licenses of Windows Server from MS and offering them for free or at $1 for each purchased server. There can be multiple reasons to resell a license at a dumping price.

@lexluthermiester - I agree that such debates should be for forums, not for front pages of articles on tech sites.

@moproblems99 - assimilation is inevitable. Subscriptions are ways to make $ out of nothing and for doing nothing (or nearly nothing).

@GlacierNine - agreed with #1 and #2. About #3, the legality problem is not that of either the users or TPU, it's the problem of the seller.

@juiseman - of course they don't. Their primary objective is to spread Windows 10, not restrict it in any way. That is why you also can use it indefinitely without any license (note: I keep a black desktop anyway).

 

[64K]

I don't buy from key selling sites, but my friends do. My opinion is that they are a bit shady and when I buy a great game I want the money to go to the Devs. Not sure if they will see any of it if I buy from a key site..

I mean are those key stolen? If so why are publishers not taking them to court?

About TPU promoting the key sites , well I'm fine with it as long as it's all 100% legal. But obviously that's in question so I think that TPU should stop promoting them. I will gladly support TPU with patreon, I am going to look into that also I don't block ads.

I have heard that one source of keys is when a Publisher sends them for free to journalists to review the game or provides multiple keys to a website with the intention of that site giving them away to promote a game. The Publisher doesn't make any money from those keys. In both cases they obviously aren't supposed to be sold to a key reseller and then resold by the key reseller.

I don't think a Publisher has any way to know when the key is activated whether it was used legitimately for it's intended purpose or sold by a key reseller so they can't sue.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Dude, seriously?

Seriously.

yet your "defense" of these sites effectively boils down to "everyone is doing it, therefore it's okay".

No, my argument is that Microsoft is required by law to act if there is piracy going on. They have done nothing. Additionally, they have stated through their reseller reps that it is something new they're trying. Therefore other arrangements seem to be indicated which implies adoption of an altered business model.

Then there's the fact that everything about "ekoffers" is dodgy:

We're not talking about ekoffers as TPU is not associated with them. Other users brought that up, incorrectly.
EDIT; Looks like I missed that one. Still doesn't matter, see below.
The following is the last article associated with this discussion;
https://www.techpowerup.com/253125/...ice-2016-at-unbeatable-prices-for-techpowerup
Which means we're taking about;
https://whatsmyip.com/whois-history/goodoffer24.com
Go look it up. People need to get the facts straight.

And then there's Microsoft's very own antipiracy website: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/howtotell/Software.aspx?tab=DigitalDownloadsTabSoftwarePage
"With the exception of Product Key Cards distributed with Certificates of Authenticity (COA’s), Microsoft does not distribute products keys as standalone products. If you see a listing on an auction site, online classified ad, or other online page advertising product keys, it’s a good indication that these keys are likely stolen or counterfeit."

Microsoft, at it's sole judgment, has the right to alter it's policies and business practices as they see fit. They do not answer to us and they have no accountability to us. If this is something they want to give a go at, that is their right.

My opinion is that they are a bit shady

Some of them are. But what the nay-sayers in this thread have done is substituted the site TPU is promoting for one it is not. They have attempted to change a fact to serve the purpose of their narrative. TPU is not associated with EKoffers. They are promoting https://www.goodoffer24.com currently and before that it was URCDKeys and SCDKeys. Those users are also arguing that because these business' are new and haven't been around long, that they must also be shady or illegal, which is a lacking mentality to say the least.
EDIT; I take that back, looks like they did a promotion of EKoffers;
https://www.techpowerup.com/252902/save-on-essential-windows-10-and-office-2016-software-on-ekoffers
Must have missed it. However, that is the sole site that looks at all "iffy". The rest have godaddy hosting accounts. Godaddy requires business's jump through a number of hoops to get hosting services. Very unlikely to be "shady".

I mean are those key stolen? If so why are publishers not taking them to court?

You kinda answered your own question a bit. They're very unlikely to be stolen or there would be court action or something going on.

About TPU promoting the key sites , well I'm fine with it as long as it's all 100% legal. But obviously that's in question so I think that TPU should stop promoting them.

W1zzard has been in the industry for a long time. I say let's let him do his thing, do his own research and decide for himself about the legitimacy of things. He's got a legal team he consults with and if he's willing to promote these kinds of sites, we need to conclude that they have been consulted and gave a thumbs up.

 

[Caring1]

W1zzard has been in the industry for a long time. I say let's let him do his thing, do his own research and decide for himself about the legitimacy of things. He's got a legal team he consults with and if he's willing to promote these kinds of sites, we need to conclude that they have been consulted and gave a thumbs up.

The only thing W1zzard has to worry about is reputation and liability.
His legal eagles can only advise in regards to liability, not legality of said dealings.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The only thing W1zzard has to worry about is reputation and liability.

Just don't see that happening. The world is changing and W1zzard seems to have followed a direction he sees things going. Who knows if it will ultimately work out.

His legal eagles can only advise in regards to liability, not legality of said dealings.

While that's not exactly true, you make a valid point.

 

[AlienIsGOD]

The positions of some ppl defending these sites is hilarious....

 

[Vayra86]

The positions of some ppl defending these sites is hilarious....

Its funny when you see a topic almost every day getting closed (even just now) because it raises the same problem of 'perception' wrt these ads, and yet some people still think all is fine in the world. TPU's front page is now officially on the level of WCCFTech, both in clickbaity news stories and accuracy of those, as in the very same bottom-barrel advertising.

'but it keeps the lights on'. Okay.

 

[lexluthermiester]

The positions of some ppl defending these sites is hilarious....

Laugh it up, but what you're saying with that comment is that you are implying that the staff and admins of TPU are liars, thieves and pirates without any evidence or merit. Well done.

TPU's front page is now officially on the level of WCCFTech, both in clickbaity news stories and accuracy of those, as in the very same bottom-barrel advertising.

When it's your website, you can call the shots. Until then, it might be wise to invest in some cork.

 

[AlienIsGOD]

Laugh it up, but what you're saying with that comment is that you are implying that the staff and admins of TPU are liars, thieves and pirates without any evidence or merit. Well done.

When it's your website, you can call the shots. Until then, it might be wise to invest in some cork.

Lol, don't misconstrue what I said. Defend these sites all you want. I'm just of a different mindset when it comes to cheap software with questionable websites.

I mean it's easy to take what someone else says and warp it towards your viewpoint....

 

[Vayra86]

Laugh it up, but what you're saying with that comment is that you are implying that the staff and admins of TPU are liars, thieves and pirates without any evidence or merit. Well done.

When it's your website, you can call the shots. Until then, it might be wise to invest in some cork.

Last I checked you didn't have 'moderator' under your stars. I thought I'd take you off ignore, now I know its going back on and not coming off anytime soon. You're effectively moderating this topic, responding to everything with the same misplaced authority. If anyone needs to know their place its you. People have different opinions, suck it up. Right now you're just telling everyone who disagrees to shut up, you're just wording it differently.

 

[AlienIsGOD]

Last I checked you didn't have 'moderator' under your stars. I thought I'd take you off ignore, now I know its going back on and not coming off anytime soon. You're effectively moderating this topic, responding to everything with the same misplaced authority. If anyone needs to know their place its you. People have different opinions, suck it up. Right now you're just telling everyone who disagrees to shut up, you're just wording it differently.

This 100%, knock off the Internet cop act

there is a place for resellers of keys and googling some of these sites comes back with many "are they legit" questions..... A site on the up and up wouldnt have tons of google searches for questions asking if the site is legit....Greenmangaming is a legit reseller of games, these sites not so much. Dont get me wrong i've used HRK,G2A and some other sites but they are just as dodgy

 

[Aquinus]

You know, this could just get reported to Microsoft, then we could see what they do. This screams illegal to me though and I can't fathom why TPU wants to risk this, unless they're desperate for money to the point where they don't care where the money comes from. If it's not illegal, it's at the very least morally bankrupt.

 

[lexluthermiester]

Last I checked you didn't have 'moderator' under your stars.

How observant. And I'm not trying to be. Nice attempt at shifting the focus. Do you think it worked?

I thought I'd take you off ignore, now I know its going back on and not coming off anytime soon.

You're effectively moderating this topic, responding to everything with the same misplaced authority.

No I'm defending a position from people who don't completely understand how things work.

If anyone needs to know their place its you.

Ok, try to remember as you click that ignore button that I'm not the one calling/implying the owners/admins/staff of TPU are being dishonest in any way.

Lol, don't misconstrue what I said. Defend these sites all you want. I'm just of a different mindset when it comes to cheap software with questionable websites.

Your statement directly stated a position in opposition to what TPU is promoting. That implication stated that TPU's admins and staff are engaging in dishonest or criminal acts. And you are making that statement and implication without a shred of evidence. If you had said you don't like it and would like to know more about the situation, then staff could respond with information... Oh wait, that already happened;

Every step of posting a sponsored article is under full scrutiny of our administrator W1zzard. After our first sponsored post, we realized that enabling comments in sponsored posts will only invite the same comments all over again. So let me make two quick points without mincing words:

• Sponsored posts generate revenue we want. We are making money from them, and so are our advertisers. We have deemed discount key sellers to not constitute piracy, and we are yet to see convincing evidence to the contrary.
• We cannot allow the comments section of sponsored posts to repeatedly and inevitably devolve/transcend into a discussion about the business model of the key-seller or our ethics in marketing them, every single time. Our first such post required a gargantuan amount of moderation. It's easier for us to just keep the threads closed for discussion. So just read the post. You like what they're selling? Go buy! If not, scroll down.

TechPowerUp does have a Patreon account, we have attempted to market it, and if enough people are willing to drop some coins, we won't need sponsored content.

I also notice that such kind of feedback threads keep popping up after each sponsored post, and I appreciate/welcome that, so I merge them with the oldest such thread.

Interesting that..

This 100%, knock off the Internet cop act

Oh please..

You know, this could just get reported to Microsoft, then we could see what they do.

Go to it, lets see what they say!

 

[AlienIsGOD]

scdkey search led me to several "i bought from them and then my CC was frauded afterwards" yea let me just grab some software from a site like that........ And therein lays me issue, its not the fact that the keys are cheap, its the fact that some of these sites are shady asf and personal info can/will be misused

LOL at you lux, because i stated my opinion and it doesnt jive with yours "im in direct opposition to TPU" no im against shady fucking sites.... You dont get to decide my opinon on this or any matter or twist my words

 

[laszlo]

this answer from M$ community may have all answers on how legit their sold keys are:


"Only Amazon (not the marketplace section) and Microsoft itself are authorized to sell Digital downloads.

This site is likely reselling MSDN licenses.

About MSDN or TechNet Product Keys
They are genuine Microsoft product keys, they are actually retail licenses, but it is intended for a particular product channel either the Microsoft Software Developer Network (MSDN) or TechNet for IT Professionals who pay a subscription fee. The main purpose is for evaluation purposes. The great thing about them, unlike trial Microsoft software, MSDN or TechNet keys don't expire. Because the agreement under which the subscription is provided is a single license, none of the software should be distributed outside of it. Even though its $50,000 worth of licenses, it is for one person only to use and no one else. Unfortunately, regardless of the licensing terms, persons still abuse the program, either giveaway product keys or resell it on auction sites. Microsoft licenses it in good faith that customers won't do so, but I guess human nature wins out.

In your case, what probably happened is, you bought an MSDN licensed key, which carries up to 10 activations unlike full packaged retail licenses which only carry 1 activation. The person who sold it to you probably sold it to 10 other persons. Somewhere along the way, one of those persons might have installed it on a second system, activated it, because it went past 10 activation threshold, Microsoft detected it that it was being abused and blocked the key from further use.

If you need to purchase a genuine license, do so from the Microsoft Store: "

 

[lexluthermiester]

scdkey search led me to several "i bought from them and then my CC was frauded afterwards" yea let me just grab some software from a site like that........ And therein lays me issue, its not the fact that the keys are cheap, its the fact that some of these sites are shady asf and personal info can/will be misused

That's hardly a damning or even convincing argument. Reports like that exist about Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Ebay, etc., etc. Very weak point there bud.

 

[AlienIsGOD]

That's hardly a damning or even convincing argument. Reports like that exist about Amazon, Apple, Google, Microsoft, Ebay, etc., etc. Very weak point there bud.

not to the frequency of these kinds of sites, not a weak point at all..... Do you really feel the need to attack every poster in this thread that doesnt agree with you or TPU's decision?

the sites you mentioned while not perfect against protecting at fraud, they are certainly better then these kinds of sites