Trying to understand Ryzen 3000 series boost speed variations

[Zach_01]

I like AIOs but just because I dont want to mess with fittings and this kind of assembly in general. If you dont mind that then go for the custom, I say.

There is already a double mesh setup at the front as it is and surely adding another Very mesh to the front will choke off the air intake entirely?
Being totally realistic Harvey isn't going to be around for that much longer, he was 13 last Oct, he has had diabetes now for 4 years, he has arthritis, he is going blind. 12 is considered a good age for a Labrador so even without all the added medical conditions he is not expected to be around for that much longer, plus making anything these days isn't really too great an idea.

View attachment 141725


I will go with the standard 360 as that has the greater surface area compared to the 280, ‭43,200‬ compared to ‭39,200‬ and standard compared to the LT is 5mm thicker.

My biggest problem, no matter what I go with, will be the fitting. I will either somehow need to cut a large hole in the rad cover of the case, so that it can be fitted in one stage in its entirety, or take the fans off and fit those to the underneath of the fan cover and then the rad to the top.
Either way I will need to cut a hole to allow the tubing / pump through

View attachment 141726



Wasn't so much about the post code, more about the temp probe connector and it's damn bad positioning

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Ok, have figured out a way to do this, due to the 43mm depth restriction.
What I do have in that case is Height at the top of the case - 50mm in height and over 150 width

What I have thought of is this - cut out the main section of the radiator shelf to allow the 360 (or even 280, but I am going for the 360 unless someone can persuade me, as it has more surface area) to drop in complete.
I have ordered some mild steel black angle (20mm x 20mm) to span the gap, screw or bolt that into place with a 20mm spacer in place and then attach the radiator and fans to that.
That will then mean that less than 35mm of the unit will enter down into the case, giving me 8mm clearance still, which will allow the ATX 12Vconnector cables to remain routed as they are now.
This will mean that the top of the radiator will be exactly level with the side venting on the top panel, so ventilation would not be compromised

Sorry for the crap picture, never been any good with paint, heh. Yellow is the section to cut out, to allow the rad unit to be dropped in, red would be the steel angle spanning that the radiator attaches to

View attachment 141755

This shows just How much space there is Above the radiator shelf

View attachment 141754

Thoughts @Zach_01 @tabascosauz @Fry178 ?

Remember though yours does have liquid metal not thermal paste, so that helps somewhat

If I had the tools, I would cut off that cell/mesh grill without hesitation... for maximizing airflow =low fan rpm and noise. And since that would be exhaust, you dont care about dust...

As for liquid metal, because this kind of TIM has high transfer heat rate it keeps the water on a higher temp level. Not too much tho if the rad can dissipate the increased heat transfer rate...

 

[lorry]

If I had the tools, I would cut off that cell/mesh grill without hesitation... for maximizing airflow =low fan rpm and noise. And since that would be exhaust, you dont care about dust...

I doubt that this case would be overly sellable, as it's already had the PSU shroud cut at to get the GPU to fit vertical anyway.
Doing it that way would be easier for cleaning as well, as it would only require 8 screws removed and then the entire rad could be lifted out with the fans attached.
To me it reads like this. A decent AIO will give respectable performance, an open loop allows you to pick exactly what you want, the best of the best or whatever your wallet can stand.
Plus, I Do like to tinker

 

[Waldorf]

not mocking your plan.
your money, your decision.


BUT, to me it doesnt makes sense to go custom right now:
- on your first water cooler
- will leave you without the pc for at least one day (believe me)
- even the best block/rad/pump combo will maybe gain 10-20% over the aio
(but even the aio will make a day and night difference over air cooling, especially looking at the gpu temps)
- will cost a lot more "right away", without a day and night difference (vs aio).
you gonna spend at least 250 on a decent loop (i had 255 BP for shopping cart without shipping etc.).


i would go with the 240 LT. has the same pump as the "normal" 240, and can be had for 85 BP,
its a bit more than the components might cost, but you can start right away, maybe 1 h when taking time
on how you want it installed etc.

the rad coming with the alpha cool is good enough, so no need to spend more on a different one.
the pump is good, even if you add another 120 rad (rear of case and include the gpu in the loop.

240 LT "now", then upgrade to an additional reservoir next (if you dont plan on mounting one directly to the D5),
then add the pump and cpu block (as those are on piece on the aio). another 120 rad for the rear (maybe a nice ultra copper "everything"
that you could feed the hot water first.
down the road a gpu block if you want

 

[lorry]

not mocking your plan.
your money, your decision.


BUT, to me it doesnt makes sense to go custom right now:
- on your first water cooler
- will leave you without the pc for at least one day (believe me)
- even the best block/rad/pump combo will maybe gain 10-20% over the aio
(but even the aio will make a day and night difference over air cooling, especially looking at the gpu temps)
- will cost a lot more "right away", without a day and night difference (vs aio).
you gonna spend at least 250 on a decent loop (i had 255 BP for shopping cart without shipping etc.).


i would go with the 240 LT. has the same pump as the "normal" 240, and can be had for 85 BP,
its a bit more than the components might cost, but you can start right away, maybe 1 h when taking time
on how you want it installed etc.

the rad coming with the alpha cool is good enough, so no need to spend more on a different one.
the pump is good, even if you add another 120 rad (rear of case and include the gpu in the loop.

240 LT "now", then upgrade to an additional reservoir next (if you dont plan on mounting one directly to the D5),
then add the pump and cpu block (as those are on piece on the aio). another 120 rad for the rear (maybe a nice ultra copper "everything"
that you could feed the hot water first.
down the road a gpu block if you want

I'm not doing 240 anything, nor 280, it'll be 360 or nothing

as they still dont use a D5 as pump, nor is the block the best one,

has the same pump as the "normal" 240

which mate please?
As it sounds to me like one minute you are saying the pump is ok, and the next that its not??

what about their Alphacool Eisbaer (Solo) - 2600rpm - black ?

Alphacool Eisbaer (Solo) - 2600rpm - black

Along with the different prefilled “Eisbaer” coolers that are ready to use out of the box, the core of the “Eisbaer” is also available as a stand-alone option. With it, you can set up your system and choose which parts you want for it...

www.aquatuning.co.uk

I just dont see the point in going for less than a 360.
I may decide on their 360 AIO, i dont know.
The problem with that is if i decide to do custom in the end then nothing from the AIO would be used, it would be 'wasted' money. Yes i could use it on something else later on but what im not sure.

 

[tabascosauz]

I'm not doing 240 anything, nor 280, it'll be 360 or nothing

which mate please?
As it sounds to me like one minute you are saying the pump is ok, and the next that its not??

what about their Alphacool Eisbaer (Solo) - 2600rpm - black ?

Alphacool Eisbaer (Solo) - 2600rpm - black

Along with the different prefilled “Eisbaer” coolers that are ready to use out of the box, the core of the “Eisbaer” is also available as a stand-alone option. With it, you can set up your system and choose which parts you want for it...

www.aquatuning.co.uk

I ain't done a custom loop before, I'm just watching what you do

The 2600rpm uses a DC-LT pump. Noise doesn't seem to be too much a problem, but power is. Flow rate seems to be massively decreased from the Laing DDC. Also don't know if the advertised "ceramic bearing" actually does anything for reliability.

Between the DDC and D5, both of which have been pretty popular go-to for years, the DDC flow rate is lower but it is also a more compact product than the D5.

 

[lorry]

I ain't done a custom loop before, I'm just watching what you do

The 2600rpm uses a DC-LT pump. Noise doesn't seem to be too much a problem, but power is. Flow rate seems to be massively decreased from the Laing DDC. Also don't know if the advertised "ceramic bearing" actually does anything for reliability.

Between the DDC and D5, both of which have been pretty popular go-to for years, the DDC flow rate is lower but it is also a much more compact product than the D5.

Thing is this, the AIO i could possibly get next week, whereas a custom id have to buy piece by piece, same as i did for the rig. I may Have to, as the custom will take me several months to get the money together and this cpu aint getting any cooler.

I guess i could get the AIO for now, save up the money for the parts for the custom, and then use the rad from the AIO to add in for the GPU.

 

[Waldorf]

the pumps on all eisbaer (except extreme) are the same. only difference is that one has a reservoir on top of the block/pump combo,
so its easier to do flush/refill etc.

the pumps are ok when it comes to quality, but not when compared to power/quality of a D5,
but that costs almost as much as the whole aio, so not really comparable.

flow/power is not an issue. the asetek aios have far weaker pumps and no difference in temp,
the smaller hose diameter (vs custom) is probably helping, and i haven't seen any difference in cooling between low and full speed (eisbaer solo)
(because the bottleneck for ryzen is heat transfer, not the rest of the loop).


get the aio, and if you decide to tinker with it, you can keep the rad/hoses/fans,
heck even the connectors (hose to pump) are standard 1/4G and will fit any pump,
so you really need only a pump/res combo.

and even if you get a D5 and really nice res, should still stay below 250 in total.
thats why i say get the aio (and have proper cooling and lower case/gpu temps now),
and swap parts later.

a gpu block would only make sense if you have stock/FE layout, and plan on keeping the gpu until it dies,
as most blocks are either brand specific (EVGA block for EVGA cards) or only work with Nvidias stock pcb,
and others might have components in the way.

Next time you upgrade the gpu just get something that has an aio already with it,
doesnt have to be connected to the cpu loop (easier if something stops working, you would only need to install an aircooler on the cpu).

edit:
i sold my corsair aio a while back (wanted custom loop), but by chance sold my gpu as well,
so i wasn't able to spend more than 150 on cpu cooler. but with what i saved on the eisbaer (vs custom),
i was able to get a LC 2080, which now stays around 40-50C for most games.

even the best components and the loop costing +250, would have not given me the same temps i have now
(with cpu AND gpu exhausting and dumping the heat outside.

 

[lorry]

the pumps on all eisbaer (except extreme) are the same. only difference is that one has a reservoir on top of the block/pump combo,
so its easier to do flush/refill etc.

the pumps are ok when it comes to quality, but not when compared to power/quality of a D5,
but that costs almost as much as the whole aio, so not really comparable.

flow/power is not an issue. the asetek aios have far weaker pumps and no difference in temp,
the smaller hose diameter (vs custom) is probably helping, and i haven't seen any difference in cooling between low and full speed (eisbaer solo)
(because the bottleneck for ryzen is heat transfer, not the rest of the loop).


get the aio, and if you decide to tinker with it, you can keep the rad/hoses/fans,
heck even the connectors (hose to pump) are standard 1/4G and will fit any pump,
so you really need only a pump/res combo.

and even if you get a D5 and really nice res, should still stay below 250 in total.
thats why i say get the aio (and have proper cooling and lower case/gpu temps now),
and swap parts later.

a gpu block would only make sense if you have stock/FE layout, and plan on keeping the gpu until it dies,
as most blocks are either brand specific (EVGA block for EVGA cards) or only work with Nvidias stock pcb,
and others might have components in the way.

Next time you upgrade the gpu just get something that has an aio already with it,
doesnt have to be connected to the cpu loop (easier if something stops working, you would only need to install an aircooler on the cpu).

edit:
i sold my corsair aio a while back (wanted custom loop), but by chance sold my gpu as well,
so i wasn't able to spend more than 150 on cpu cooler. but with what i saved on the eisbaer (vs custom),
i was able to get a LC 2080, which now stays around 40-50C for most games.

even the best components and the loop costing +250, would have not given me the same temps i have now
(with cpu AND gpu exhausting and dumping the heat outside.

I'm unlikely to swap the GPU for quite some time as any improvement on it would be £500+ unless AMD do something remarkable, so it is likely that for at least the next year (likely longer), the 2070 super will remain.

It therefore makes sense to me to look to getting the AIO first, then save for a D5 and then get a water block for the GPU, as the D5 and reservoir will be able to handle both GPU and CPU (something that I don't see the pump in the AIO handling That well).

Planned that way I go up in spec in stages, AIO, AIO with better pump, AIO + better pump + GPU waterblock. Each stage will likely be around the £150 mark.



Now, a couple of questions -

I see that the pump connector is a 3 pin,



I only have 4 pin headers on this MB, so would I need something like this?

Phobya adaptor 3Pin (socket) to 4Pin PWM (plug) 30cm - black

This is an adaptor which has a 3-Pin fan connector and a 4-Pin PWM fan connector. It can be used to connect a PWM fan to a fan controller or Mainboard. This signal does not pass on a rpm signal, but most fan controllers can adjust the...

www.aquatuning.co.uk

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@Zach_01
The Fan/Pump Control mode min BIOS (MIT) I now think is more for the pump than the fans, so i think that on my next boot I will switch it back to auto and let the MB determine the optimal control mode.

 

[Zach_01]

Sure, why not... I just suggested to "play" with those settings cause you said that the fans was acting kind of wierd and not responding well to custom curves.

3/4pin subject:
That sheet is from the AIO you want? It has adopter? or it just saying adopter the 2 into 1 fan connector?

 

[lorry]

Sure, why not... I just suggested to "play" with those settings cause you said that the fans was acting kind of wierd and not responding to custom curves.

3/4pin subject:
That sheet is from the AIO you want? It has adopter? or it just saying adopter the 2 into 1 fan connector?

Yeah I was only just mentioning it as I had now figured out what the BIOS manual was saying about it

Yes that picture is from the manual of the AIO and the adaptor looks to be only a standard Y splitter

What sucks is that If that adaptor IS needed then the Only place I can effectively get the AIO from is aquatuning, because they are the Only site in the UK that I can find that Phobya adaptor cable.

That sucks because they charge £12 or £25 shipping (DHL or UPS) which of course adds to the price.

 

[Waldorf]

i dont recommend getting a block for the gpu, unless you gonna do some heavy oc.
anything from any brand, no matter if EK/Alpha cool, or AIB partners like EVGA/MSI etc,
will cost about 150 US$ and up, plus hoses and fittings, depending on coverage (vrm/ram) even 200.
outside that, the block will only fit THAT generation, nothing else, so future gpu upgrade will need a new block.

any gpu that comes with it, will usually only be about 100$ more,
it will also be a separate loop (if anything happens to the cpu loop, u can swap that easily for air cooler till its fixed),
and temps will not affect each other (cpu<>gpu), and you dont have to worry about swapping gpus.
selling it might be easier too, lots of ppl i know have swapped for LC cards lately, all using AIO that came with it.
also easier if you have trouble with it, as it would be covered by warranty (of the card),
which isnt common on things "you" installed.
thats also the time i usually sign up for amazon prime (for a month), and look for open box.
if there is any problem with the card, i can return it within 30 days (so far 1 out of 10 had issues, not 100% sure if it was the card).
thats how i ended up with a 2080 (vs 2070S), as i got an open box for 620$ instead of the usual 7-800.
the only downside is those pumps arent silent, but since your fans (rad/case) arent completely silent,
it wont be an issue for you.

no worries about the aio.
the splitter is for the fans, so they run of a single port with same rpm, and it comes with it,
and it fits the 4 pin ports as well.
the pump fan is a regular 3 pin as well, pump is voltage regulated. set with fan profile in bios it works as expected,
no matter if i use silent/normal/manual.

 

[lorry]

the pump fan is a regular 3 pin as well, pump is voltage regulated. set with fan profile in bios it works as expected,
no matter if i use silent/normal/manual.

But as I said @Fry178 , I have No 3 pin headers on this MB

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On a different note, i tried out that puter blower just now - a big difference in looks and Noise levels I think

Before and after pics




Only took 5 minutes as well. To give you an idea of just how powerful this is - I tried it out on the keyboard and as I swept it across the keys, they were being depressed by the blast of air!

 

[Waldorf]

All 4pin will accept and work with 3 pins.

Good to hear that helped

 

[lorry]

@Fry178 what about those headers though?
I only have 4 pin headers in this board, do I need an adapter or what?

 

[Waldorf]

No, just match the pins so it fits that small lip/tab the headers and plugs have.

 

[lorry]

No, just match the pins so it fits that small lip/tab the headers and plugs have.

i know that the 4th pin is the pwm speed control, so would the board then regulate the speed through the voltage applied then?

 

[Waldorf]

Yup.
Thats really why you have the option in bios to switch.
Auto should work fine, try the voltage setting first.
Unless you see "big" rpm fluctuations on the pump.
Im not using the fans, but they look like arctic/bequiet/noiseblocker, so should work in auto just fine.
Depending on noise, apply a fan curve that peaks at 50C.

 

[lorry]

Yup.
Thats really why you have the option in bios to switch.
Auto should work fine, try the voltage setting first.
Unless you see "big" rpm fluctuations on the pump.
Im not using the fans, but they look like arctic/bequiet/noiseblocker, so should work in auto just fine.
Depending on noise, apply a fan curve that peaks at 50C.

Just looked, The Eisbaer uses the Pure Wings 2 fans

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Might invest in some better fans though before it's fitted, not decided as yet.

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Question time -

This AIO uses Pure Wings 2 fans -
Air Flow @ 100% PWM / 12V (CFM / m3/h) 51.4 / 87
Air Pressure @ 100% PWM / 12V (mm H2O) 1.25

I know there are fans that have better numbers. Just talking efficiency here now, are there better fans that could be got for it, if so, which?

(Remember, I'm totally new to rads etc, so I don't know if there is a point where you can no longer effectively improve the heat loss with a fin density of 15 FPI)

 

[lorry]

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Question time - @Zach_01 @tabascosauz @Fry178

This AIO uses Pure Wings 2 fans -
Air Pressure 1.25 mmH2O
Air Flow 87 m3/h

I know there are fans that have better numbers. Just talking efficiency here now, not cost - are there better fans that could be got for it, if so, which?

(Remember, I'm totally new to rads etc, so I don't know if there is a point where you can no longer effectively improve the heat loss with a fin density of 15 FPI)

I see that the Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B12-3 Bionic fan 1900rpm ( 120x120x25mm ) has the following specs -
Pressure: 1,997 mmH2O
Air flow rate: 121.2 m3 / h

the Noiseblocker NB-eLoop B12-2 Bionic fan 1300rpm ( 120x120x25mm ) has the following specs -
Pressure: 1.042mmH2O
Air flow rate: 86.9 m3 / h

the Noiseblocker NB-eLoop X B12-PS ARGB, PWM - 120mm, black Fan -
Pressure: <1.475 mmH2O
Air flow rate: <98.7 m3/hr



But which looks better? If any? And why?

I know that the FPI for the rad is 15, but I do Not know the optimum figures for a fan for it - can any of you help there?

 

[Waldorf]

I was running all previous LC stuff with normal case fans, either cause the brand didnt have pressure optimized fans at the time (NB/BN), or because i wanted quieter fans.

Right now, my 3600 is at 32C on idle (arctic P12 (0.08 not the 0.3 sone) fans at 600rpm and 70C when at full load and fans at 1100rpm (max), ambient temp is 22C.

So you should be fine with the bequiet fans, even when you use silent fan profile.
I would rather get additional fans (normal P12) and either add them to the rad (push/pull), or better, to put them on any fan openening you have left on the case.

 

[lorry]

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[Waldorf]

Problem is, they have blocks for almost every card
Its mainly for "custom" cards (like virtually everything above basic cards with improved heatsink/cooler/power design).

 

[lorry]

I was running all previous LC stuff with normal case fans, either cause the brand didnt have pressure optimized fans at the time (NB/BN), or because i wanted quieter fans.

Right now, my 3600 is at 32C on idle (arctic P12 (0.08 not the 0.3 sone) fans at 600rpm and 70C when at full load and fans at 1100rpm (max), ambient temp is 22C.

So you should be fine with the bequiet fans, even when you use silent fan profile.
I would rather get additional fans (normal P12) and either add them to the rad (push/pull), or better, to put them on any fan openyou have left on the case.

yet it was you that suggested the black noise NB-eLoop® Series ???

I doubt there is enough top room to add a set above as I am likely going to have to raise the rad 1cm or so above the fan shelf as it is (only 43mm clearance), they would likely be choked though as its a glass top with side vents

Problem is, they have blocks for almost every card
Its mainly for "custom" cards (like virtually everything above basic cards with improved heatsink/cooler/power design).

I checked they don't specifically have my card

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mine is the OC 1905mhz

and, i dunno quite how @Zach_01 did it, but take a look at the idle lows on this !

lows of 35c!



And why do 'fine' when for a few quid more there is the potential to keep a lower overall temperature with better fans?
Then maybe look into getting some 15mm fans, as they i think will be the only ones that might fit

Oh and where could i find out how many W each fan header can take? Is there a general rule of thumb or something?

 

[Waldorf]

I do recommend the noiseblocker, but the arctics are as good, for half/third of the price.
Only if you want higher performance, the NB bionics would do that, while still being quiet, and wouldn't require regular cleaning, as the blades have nanotech preventing dust to stick to them.

I prefer quiet over a couple of degrees less, as I'm already below throttling temps, and even below max longterm temp, so i rather enjoy an inaudible rig.
Sure, if you can get them for a good price, but im done paying +20$ on noctua/NB, wenn arctic gives me same temps (below 1000rpm fans) for 7$/piece (5 pack).

Usually depends in the board.
But with NB/Noctua/Arctic they usually run 0.1 to 0.5A, not something even a "no name" board couldn't handle.
Usually with pumps its different, just check which of you ports support pumps.

 

[lorry]

I do recommend the noiseblocker, but the arctics are as good for half/third of the price. Only if you want higher performance, the NB bionics would do that, while still being quiet.

I prefer quiet over a couple of degrees less, as I'm already below throttling temps, and even below max longterm temp, so i rather enjoy an inaudible rig.
Sure, if you can get them for a good price, but im done paying +20$ on noctua/NB, wenn arctic gives me same temps (below 1000rpm fans) for 7$/piece (5 pack).

So, can i now starr to learn what i asked please?
Talking effectiveness only what is the point of dimishing returns?
Would either of those two be better than the silent wings? If so which, or both?
I know that with rad fans its about their static pressure but when does enough become too much? Or does it? The silent wings 2 has 1.25, the b12 3 2.o and their ARGB one 1.5 say.
So is 1.5 still good ot is it too much? If not is 2.0 too much and if so, why?