Trying to understand Ryzen 3000 series boost speed variations

[Zach_01]

The board’s headers are 99,9% 4-pin but you can still plug a 3-pin.
When you manage to see it, if the fans are 4-pin the set is best at PWM. If the fans are 3-pin then the other is best. This is for better control of rpm/curve.

 

[mtcn77]

PWM is not necessary and furthermore, rocky in operation. 3-pin voltage modulation is preferential.

 

[Zach_01]

PWM is not necessary and furthermore, rocky in operation. 3-pin voltage modulation is preferential.

I will not disagree or agree with that, but can you explain why please?
Share the knowledge.... what do you mean rocky in operation?

 

[Waldorf]

The problem is that about 10-20% start leaking somewhere (depending model/material etc),
and even if it isnt all of them, i didnt want to deal with my hardware getting an unwanted shower.
so unless you really really want one, i would go with pump mounted unit or separate if you want more coolant.
but it will not change perf between something like 100ml and having 500ml, except until loop is saturated.
i would prefer a large pump mounted one.

Pwm is pulsing the signal (on/off) but adjusting voltage is better and usually smoother.
What most dont get is that 4 or 3 oin does not determine if pwm or v regulated (fans)

 

[lorry]

The board’s headers are 99,9% 4-pin but you can still plug a 3-pin.
When you manage to see it, if the fans are 4-pin the set is best at PWM. If the fans are 3-pin then the other is best. This is for better control of rpm/curve.

I remember now, they are all 4 pin as I bought a short Noctua splitter cable when I added the second fan and that was 4 pin. Double checked the fans boxes and they are all PWMas well. Don't think that has made much any difference as the fan speeds changed with the temperature before and they are still doing that now

The problem is that about 10-20% start leaking somewhere (depending model/material etc),
and even if it isnt all of them, i didnt want to deal with my hardware getting an unwanted shower.
so unless you really really want one, i would go with pump mounted unit or separate if you want more coolant.
but it will not change perf between something like 100ml and having 500ml, except until loop is saturated.
i would prefer a large pump mounted one.

Pwm is pulsing the signal (on/off) but adjusting voltage is better and usually smoother.
What most dont get is that 4 or 3 oin does not determine if pwm or v regulated (fans)

"except until loop is saturated"
Surely that's the case when you are gaming then for any length of time. I know that is only holding off the inevitable but as you say the lower temps would be there for a longer time period?


Also - not sure what this is then as it was set to PWM in BIOS



yet looks as if it is still fixed RPM in SIV ?

 

[Zach_01]

I remember now, they are all 4 pin as I bought a short Noctua splitter cable when I added the second fan and that was 4 pin. Double checked the fans boxes and they are all PWMas well. Don't think that has made much any difference as the fan speeds changed with the temperature before and they are still doing that now
Also - not sure what this is then as it was set to PWM in BIOS

View attachment 141615

yet looks as if it is still fixed RPM in SIV ?

View attachment 141616

Had to enter BIOS to see what I was having there.
Turns out I have them on auto control mode...



And SIV looking like this. See the rpm table on the right...

 

[lorry]

Had to enter BIOS to see what I was having there.
Turns out I have them on auto control mode...

View attachment 141622

And SIV looking like this. See the rpm table on the right...

View attachment 141623

yeah, mine Was on auto as well, Now set to PWM. It feels that since setting it to PWM and then calibrating within SIV that they don't sound quite so obtrusive, see how it goes I guess.

 

[Zach_01]

yeah, mine Was on auto as well, Now set to PWM. It feels that since setting it to PWM and then calibrating within SIV that they don't sound quite so obtrusive, see how it goes I guess.

Ok, see how is this go... but setting the fans to VRM temp would already by more steady rpm than the CPU temp that is always all over the place. From the 3 fans I have (beside AIO's), the 2 are on the VRM temp and 1 on PCH since I have it next to PCH heatsink. All are set with 0 delta because VRM and PCH temps are pretty much steady and/or slow moving.

I saw in your smart fan BIOS that you have a reading on the EC_TEMP1 sensor. Do you have one connected there? Was that with the board or you buy it separately? My board also has 2 headers for ext sensors (EC_TEMP1/2) but no sensor was in the package with the board. I tried to find 1 or 2to buy, but I wasnt successful. Do you know anything about that?

 

[lorry]

Ok, see how is this go... but setting the fans to VRM temp would already by more steady rpm than the CPU temp that is always all over the place. From the 3 fans I have (beside AIO's), the 2 are on the VRM temp and 1 on PCH since I have it next to PCH heatsink. All are set with 0 delta because VRM and PCH temps are pretty much steady and/or slow moving.

I saw in your smart fan BIOS that you have a reading on the EC_TEMP1 sensor. Do you have one connected there? Was that with the board or you buy it separately? My board also has 2 headers for ext sensors (EC_TEMP1/2) but no sensor was in the package with the board. I tried to find 1 or 2to buy, but I wasnt successful. Do you know anything about that?

There are two EC_TEMP headers on this board and it came with two probes. Contact Gigabyte support directly in your country and you should be able to buy them through them. I did with a 4 to 3 pin adapters for back when I was planning to use a controller (cost me £5 with postage). Alternatively have a look on a decent - found a load on overclockers

▷ Buy Temperature Sensors for… online | OVERCLOCKERS UK

Temperature Sensors for Liquid Cooling Systems @ OcUK ✓ Best Range ✓ Great Service ✓ Top Price - OVERCLOCKERS UK

www.overclockers.co.uk

If you decide to go through Gigabyte, the part number (for my board but I'm sure it's a generic part) is 12RH1-001002-015



This is the 4-3 pin adapter that I got as an extra -



BTW I have the CPU fans connected up to the CPU temp, it is only the others that I have linked with the VRM MOS

 

[Zach_01]

Thanks for the tips! I will look into it...
Ok I see about the fans. I still trying though to figure out why your fans dont show the rpm table on SIV.

 

[lorry]

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Until I can take the top and side panel off this afternoon and take a couple of pics and measure up myself, I'm not sure what the dimensions that can be used up top.
I know that they say that at the front there is support for 120mm, 140mm, 200mm, 240mm, 280mm, 360mm (70mm clearance w/radiator lid &M.port removed),
But at the top - 120mm, 140mm, 240mm, 280mm, 360mm (maximum thickness clearance 43mm)

The Alphacool Eisbaer 280 CPU - black is 30mm thick and fans 25mm, so 55mm in total

The Alphacool Eisbaer LT 280 and 360 CPU - black is 25mm thick with 25mm fans so 50mm in total

If The Cooler master figures are correct then the only way that I could go would be to have the fans above in a pull configuration. Would that be okay?\
(I might of course be able to put some thin fans inside for a sort of push/pull setup ??)

Thanks for the tips! I will look into it...
Ok I see about the fans. I still trying though to figure out why your fans dont show the rpm table on SIV.

Eh? They do. Look to the right

 

[tabascosauz]

I will not disagree or agree with that, but can you explain why please?
Share the knowledge.... what do you mean rocky in operation?

Often times boards are not actually compatible with the fans for PWM control, despite both being PWM capable. I found out the hard way with my two A12x25s, which populate the sysfan header through a Noctua splitter. I used to leave it on Auto, which lets the board choose voltage or PWM control, and that worked fine.

Something to do with how different boards and different fans don't send the same control data over the same pins.

Then at some point I switched to PWM, and one of the fans would vary between dead and kinda working. My board isn't capable of controlling the A12x25s through PWM. I put it back on voltage control, and they work perfectly, as they should.

I even opened a RMA before someone on here mentioned to put them back on voltage. The seemingly suspect fan would only spin up at boot then stop.

When you use a splitter, the board is only reading data off one fan. But it sends out the resulting speed adjustments to both fans.

 

[Zach_01]

Eh? They do. Look to the right

Man... something is wrong with my eyes, or my brain altogether!

Often times boards are not actually compatible with the fans for PWM control, despite both being PWM capable. I found out the hard way with my two A12x25s, which populate the sysfan header through a Noctua splitter. I used to leave it on Auto, which lets the board choose voltage or PWM control, and that worked fine.

Something to do with how different boards and different fans don't send the same control data over the same pins.

Then at some point I switched to PWM, and one of the fans would vary between dead and kinda working. My board isn't capable of controlling the A12x25s through PWM. I put it back on voltage control, and they work perfectly, as they should.

I even opened a RMA before someone on here mentioned to put them back on voltage. The seemingly suspect fan would only spin up at boot then stop.

When you use a splitter, the board is only reading data off one fan. But it sends out the resulting speed adjustments to both fans.

Thanks...

 

[lorry]

Often times boards are not actually compatible with the fans for PWM control, despite both being PWM capable. I found out the hard way with my two A12x25s, which populate the sysfan header through a Noctua splitter. I used to leave it on Auto, which lets the board choose voltage or PWM control, and that worked fine.

Something to do with how different boards and different fans don't send the same control data over the same pins.

Then at some point I switched to PWM, and one of the fans would vary between dead and kinda working. My board isn't capable of controlling the A12x25s through PWM. I put it back on voltage control, and they work perfectly, as they should.

I even opened a RMA before someone on here mentioned to put them back on voltage. The seemingly suspect fan would only spin up at boot then stop.

When you use a splitter, the board is only reading data off one fan. But it sends out the resulting speed adjustments to both fans.

All of my fans are controlled by the motherboard - their speeds all vary when I change and apply that change in SIV and I see them go up and down as the temp moves (well the CPU fans do, the other fans dont change that much obviously, as the VRM MOS doesn't alter to that much)

I am not sure now - I Was planning on using a splitter for the front two fans but I think that I ended up putting them on sep headers as there was enough headers. Sys fan 2 shows a RPM reading, which Must mean that there is a fan attached to sys 1 & 2, but sys 3 just displays a '?'

Man... something is wrong with my eyes, or my brain altogether!

@Zach_01 try emailing their Esupport directly, they did take a day or so to reply but were fine. You have to register first of course

GIGABYTE - eSupport

esupport.gigabyte.com

 

[tabascosauz]

All of my fans are controlled by the motherboard - their speeds all vary when I change and apply that change in SIV and I see them go up and down as the temp moves (well the CPU fans do, the other fans dont change that much obviously, as the VRM MOS doesn't alter to that much)

I am not sure now - I Was planning on using a splitter for the front two fans but I think that I ended up putting them on sep headers as there was enough headers. Sys fan 2 shows a RPM reading, which Must mean that there is a fan attached to sys 1 & 2, but sys 3 just displays a '?'

Oh, no idea, I haven't used any utilities including System Information Viewer since my Z97MX-Gaming 5 days. I just meant the BIOS fan control gives you control options for each header, and it seems best to leave it on Auto as the board knows best, apparently. Though as far as I can tell, the only advantage PWM has over voltage control is efficiency and a lower minimum speed, and the lower minimum speed is biting me in the ass right now because the clicking behaviour @Fry178 described is exactly what's going on in my H97N-WIFI backup rig for years; the signal's too low for the F12 and A14-2000 to spin at low temperatures. And I cant change it because my video output in BIOS has seemingly died and the C14S blocks the CMOS header unless I take the mobo tray out of the case. Fun.

You're not the only one @Zach_01 I've been so short on sleep I'm starting to become dyslexic

 

[lorry]

Oh, no idea, I haven't used any utilities including System Information Viewer since my Z97MX-Gaming 5 days. I just meant the BIOS fan control gives you control options for each header, and it seems best to leave it on Auto as the board knows best, apparently. Though as far as I can tell, the only advantage PWM has over voltage control is efficiency and a lower minimum speed, and the lower minimum speed is biting me in the ass right now because the clicking behaviour @Fry178 described is exactly what's going on in my H97N-WIFI backup rig for years; the signal's too low for the F12 and A14-2000 to spin at low temperatures. And I cant change it because my video output in BIOS has seemingly died and the C14S blocks the CMOS header unless I take the mobo tray out of the case. Fun.

You're not the only one @Zach_01 I've been so short on sleep I'm starting to become dyslexic

lack of sleep? IF I get two hours continous I feel like I have won the lottery!

I have Chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy (CIDP) , COPD (Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease), IBS and then four buggered up discs in the sciatic area of my spine and two in my neck.
Amongst other things I'm on morphine patches 24/7, oral morphine, tramadol, Gabapentin, You name it, I seem to take it. Have five pages of repeat prescriptions.
That's why I am sometimes slow to reply or what likely takes you guys an hour or so to do will take me four or five.

To say that it sucks at times is an understatement and to makes things worse, the consultant for my neuropathy is a berk. How I haven't belted him I don't know.
The appt for Last August was cancelled, then made for late Jan, that was cancelled and then another made for Oct! (which would have made it 18 months since I last saw him), Now Finally seeing him in a couple of hours. So I'll be back this afternoon when I'll take a couple of pics of the top of the case etc.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If any of you can give your thoughts re fan placement (see comment above for specs) placement I'd appreciate it, as it looks like I Might be able to afford that AIO this week!

Okay, measuring done and it looks like I can easily fit a 360 with a push configuration.

The gap after removing the rad cover is 405 x 150 mm, so it can fit either 3 x 120 or 2 x 140 mm fans with ease and there is a 43mm clearance to the top of the MB



The fans can be fitted to the underneath of the rad cover (whatever ya call it), as there is 43mm clearance there plus a few mm extra with the raised lip of the rad cover and the rad on top. The space there is 405 x 180 mm height is 45 mm so a 30mm rad would fit just fine.



Yes I know it is already dusty in there, that will be an Ongoing situation as long as this guy is around. i bought one of those puter blowers for That very reason. it's 1 horsepower blower and is plenty strong enough. He is 13 now, diabetic and has diabetic cataracts, he is also The Most hairiest dog that his vet has Ever seen! he moults 25/8 I kid thee not!, you can tug bloodt great clumps of fur from him as often as you like!



Anyway, to give you an idea, the mesh front was vacuumed a day ago, this is how it is now




Oh and @Zach_01 this is where one of those temp headers are- right in the bloody way of the post code! (another reason I went for this board). I have to lean at a stupid angle to be able to read it correctly




This is what I am looking at getting - thoughts please? it is £109 plus delivery

Alphacool Eisbaer 360 CPU - Black

With the “Eisbaer”, Alphacool is fundamentally revolutionizing the AIO cooler market. Where traditional AIO CPU-coolers are disposable products which are neither upgradeable nor refillable, the Alphacool “Eisbaer” is modularly built and...

www.aquatuning.co.uk

Tagging in @tabascosauz and @Fry178 just because I can be a PITA at times

 

[Waldorf]

@tabascosauz
Aaaah, reset bios?
remove power plug, remove cmos BATTERY for 10s, put battery back in,
reconnect power cord..

@lorry
If at all.
My last custom loop had about 4,5l coolant and the resorator is more than 2ft tall all metal incl heatsinknlike fins, and it took 30 min onnlow load before temps started to rise past starting temp (when pc was turned on).
with ryzen water temps arent the problem, mine never goes past 40*C,
cpu still goes up to 70*C, because of the "small" heatsink they have.
This is the main reason why almost all coolers perform similar,
the only difference is how silent/loud the fans are (no matter cooling type),
and what temps you will get on gpu/case etc.

If you plan on adding the gpu, i would recommend the 360 LT,
280s would allow for lower rpm fans and they make use of a wider rad (vs 240),
and if you really need the gpu added, just get a small 120 rad as add-on that can go to the rear of the case.
But usually using the aio to dump the heat outside the case, is the biggest improvement. Use the fans as push, easer to remove when cleaning fans/rad.

Thought about an airfilter?
20in box fan with a piece of screen filter (cut to size roll of filter for the range hood, if u want odor control).
Have the fan pull the air thru the filter (prevents fan getting dirty),
i recommend make a frame/box that allows for the filter to have some distance to the fan.

Amazon.com: PollenTec Box Fan Air Purifier Filter for Cleaner Air and a Cooling Breeze Washable, Reusable, Compatible with Lasko Models B20200 2301 3733 B20401 Frame size 20.5 x 20.5 Made in USA: Kitchen & Dining

Amazon.com: PollenTec Box Fan Air Purifier Filter for Cleaner Air and a Cooling Breeze Washable, Reusable, Compatible with Lasko Models B20200 2301 3733 B20401 Frame size 20.5 x 20.5 Made in USA: Kitchen & Dining

smile.amazon.com

 

[tabascosauz]

@Fry178 ha! if only it were so easy. C14S pretty much smothers the entire board. I have the A14 below the heatsink right now, not on top, which blocks access to the CMOS battery, and the fan can't come off because there's no space to unclip the fan on the top (bottom) side. Orientation is also flipped in the TJ-08, no space to reach the top edge of the board, and CMOS header is on the top edge. The mobo tray is going to have to come out of the case at some point but then again, I've never really had this happen on the board before, maybe it's on its last legs

 

[Waldorf]

RIP then

 

[Zach_01]

...with ryzen water temps arent the problem, mine never goes past 40*C,
cpu still goes up to 70*C, because of the "small" heatsink they have.
This is the main reason why almost all coolers perform similar,
the only difference is how silent/loud the fans are (no matter cooling type),
and what temps you will get on gpu/case etc.

Isnt 40C high on water?
Mine works between 24-25C idle and 27-28C max water temp, with CPU around 58-60C max temp. Tho it’s 280mm AIO and fans 700-1400rpm.

Oh and @Zach_01 this is where one of those temp headers are- right in the bloody way of the post code! (another reason I went for this board). I have to lean at a stupid angle to be able to read it correctly

View attachment 141656

Yeah, mine doesnt have post code display, just 4 debug leds.

The price of that Eisbaer 360 is pretty nice I think... Here too... it’s 120€.

 

[lorry]

@lorry
If at all.
My last custom loop had about 4,5l coolant and the resorator is more than 2ft tall all metal incl heatsinknlike fins, and it took 30 min onnlow load before temps started to rise past starting temp (when pc was turned on).
with ryzen water temps arent the problem, mine never goes past 40*C,
cpu still goes up to 70*C, because of the "small" heatsink they have.
This is the main reason why almost all coolers perform similar,
the only difference is how silent/loud the fans are (no matter cooling type),
and what temps you will get on gpu/case etc.

If you plan on adding the gpu, i would recommend the 360 LT,
280s would allow for lower rpm fans and they make use of a wider rad (vs 240),
and if you really need the gpu added, just get a small 120 rad as add-on that can go to the rear of the case.
But usually using the aio to dump the heat outside the case, is the biggest improvement. Use the fans as push, easer to remove when cleaning fans/rad.

Thought about an airfilter?
20in box fan with a piece of screen filter (cut to size roll of filter for the range hood, if u want odor control).
Have the fan pull the air thru the filter (prevents fan getting dirty),
i recommend make a frame/box that allows for the filter to have some distance to the fan.

Amazon.com: PollenTec Box Fan Air Purifier Filter for Cleaner Air and a Cooling Breeze Washable, Reusable, Compatible with Lasko Models B20200 2301 3733 B20401 Frame size 20.5 x 20.5 Made in USA: Kitchen & Dining

Amazon.com: PollenTec Box Fan Air Purifier Filter for Cleaner Air and a Cooling Breeze Washable, Reusable, Compatible with Lasko Models B20200 2301 3733 B20401 Frame size 20.5 x 20.5 Made in USA: Kitchen & Dining

smile.amazon.com

There is already a double mesh setup at the front as it is and surely adding another Very mesh to the front will choke off the air intake entirely?
Being totally realistic Harvey isn't going to be around for that much longer, he was 13 last Oct, he has had diabetes now for 4 years, he has arthritis, he is going blind. 12 is considered a good age for a Labrador so even without all the added medical conditions he is not expected to be around for that much longer, plus making anything these days isn't really too great an idea.




I will go with the standard 360 as that has the greater surface area compared to the 280, ‭43,200‬ compared to ‭39,200‬ and standard compared to the LT is 5mm thicker.

My biggest problem, no matter what I go with, will be the fitting. I will either somehow need to cut a large hole in the rad cover of the case, so that it can be fitted in one stage in its entirety, or take the fans off and fit those to the underneath of the fan cover and then the rad to the top.
Either way I will need to cut a hole to allow the tubing / pump through

Yeah, mine doesnt have post code display, just 4 debug leds.

The price of that Eisbaer 360 is pretty nice I think... Here too... it’s 120€.

Wasn't so much about the post code, more about the temp probe connector and it's damn bad positioning

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, have figured out a way to do this, due to the 43mm depth restriction.
What I do have in that case is Height at the top of the case - 50mm in height and over 150 width

What I have thought of is this - cut out the main section of the radiator shelf to allow the 360 (or even 280, but I am going for the 360 unless someone can persuade me, as it has more surface area) to drop in complete.
I have ordered some mild steel black angle (20mm x 20mm) to span the gap, screw or bolt that into place with a 20mm spacer in place and then attach the radiator and fans to that.
That will then mean that less than 35mm of the unit will enter down into the case, giving me 8mm clearance still, which will allow the ATX 12Vconnector cables to remain routed as they are now.
This will mean that the top of the radiator will be exactly level with the side venting on the top panel, so ventilation would not be compromised

Sorry for the crap picture, never been any good with paint, heh. Yellow is the section to cut out, to allow the rad unit to be dropped in, red would be the steel angle spanning that the radiator attaches to



This shows just How much space there is Above the radiator shelf



Thoughts @Zach_01 @tabascosauz @Fry178 ?

Mine works between 24-25C idle and 27-28C max water temp, with CPU around 58-60C max temp. Tho it’s 280mm AIO and fans 700-1400rpm.

Remember though yours does have liquid metal not thermal paste, so that helps somewhat

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ooh, just saw this -
The Eisbaer Aurora AIO is next on the list. This is a higher-end AIO cooler with full copper radiators in 240mm or 360mm sizes. Currently, Alphacool also has 280mm and 420mm versions planned for Q2 or Q3 2020. Pricing starts at €124.99 for the 240mm version and goes up to €144.99 for the 360mm version. Aurora LUX RGB fans are also coming, with the key selling point being addressable RGB, but other specs include 800 to 2000 RPM, 35.6dB max noise level and 2mm H2O static pressure.

CES 2020: Alphacool expands its liquid cooling lineup - KitGuru

Our CES coverage continues, this time with Leo checking out the Alphacool suite, which was packed wi

www.kitguru.net

 

[Waldorf]

@Zach_01
sorry, remembered temps before i switched to water on the gpu.
realized it actually never goes past 3x ish, as my ram leds are switching color if it goes past 35*C.


@lorry
sorry, not for the pc, but for your room.
will also help with your COPD, as a decent filter (HEPA, merv 13 and up) will filter down to mold/virus level,
and reduce dust (not just pet hair) on virtually everything (in the room).
over here box fan and filter (furnace/hvac size) can be had for about 40-50 US$,
and i would recommend it to gt one even if not right now.


since you plan on upgrading/expanding parts, dont waste your money on their "premium" stuff.
one reason why i also do not recommend the extreme/black edition stuff.
its nice, but throwing money at alphacool, as they still dont use a D5 as pump, nor is the block the best one,
no matter if i look at just alphacool or the whole LC market.

the eisbaer comes with copper fins, all you need, and a full copper rad wont make much of a difference
heat transfer (cpu to cooler) is more important on ryzen than anything (and why i recommend the ray-storm block)

i wouldnt cut away from the case, just mount the rad inside, and run the fans on top,
pulling outside, as long as its easy to get to (for cleaning maintenance later on).

(oh and see that you cover the areas around the case fans (at least the rear one),
so they dont draw any hot air back in.
one reason i started to use neoprene foam again, even that i dont need it for silencing anymore (no hdds etc),
so i can cover any holes/openings on the case etc, that im not using ..

no need to buy pc specific stuff, just the cheapest you can get. like this:

NATGAI Sponge Neoprene with Adhesive Foam Rubber Sheet 1/8” Thick X 12” Wide X 48” Long, Cut to Multiple Dimensions and Lengths - DIY, Gaskets, Cosplay, Costume, Crafts - - Amazon.com

NATGAI Sponge Neoprene with Adhesive Foam Rubber Sheet 1/8” Thick X 12” Wide X 48” Long, Cut to Multiple Dimensions and Lengths - DIY, Gaskets, Cosplay, Costume, Crafts - - Amazon.com

smile.amazon.com

 

[lorry]

sorry, not for the pc, but for your room.

Ah! Already have one with a HEPA filter, well two actually. One upstairs and one down. But luckily my COPD isn't That bad, I'd stopped smoking and begun vaping two years before I was diagnosed, so I'd placed a halt on any further damage done there.

since you plan on upgrading/expanding parts, dont waste your money on their "premium" stuff.
one reason why i also do not recommend the extreme/black edition stuff.
its nice, but throwing money at alphacool, as they still dont use a D5 as pump, nor is the block the best one,
no matter if i look at just alphacool or the whole LC market.

the eisbaer comes with copper fins, all you need, and a full copper rad wont make much of a difference
heat transfer (cpu to cooler) is more important on ryzen than anything (and why i recommend the ray-storm block)

i wouldnt cut away from the case, just mount the rad inside, and run the fans on top,
pulling outside, as long as its easy to get to (for cleaning maintenance later on).

I quite like the look of that new one though and the price difference isn't too great. I prefer their newer quick release over the older bulkier ones for certain and depending on what is inside that block might be the deciding factor (depends of course of what fans are also included, If they even are?)

Might it not be better then to get their radiator and then a different block/block pump combo?

I thought that the radiator shelf might not have been ventilated enough? I also thought that the fans were at their most effective when placed directly onto the radiator, not with a honeycombed shelf of metal in between?

Removing that shelf is a matter of 8 screws, so dead easy there, then it just depends if remving the fans and radiator are required for a deep clean or not.

 

[Waldorf]

If you plan on swapping pump/block, dont waste the money on the "better" aios,
but if you dont plan on doing that, they are a tick better.

e.g. a vpp755 pump (premium lineup) is still not something i would consider to keep/carry over, compared to a D5.
its like a good head unit/psu etc, you only replace if they break, wouldnt do that with the vpp.
or that you can get fans (arctic) that have less than half the noise, while providing a bit more static pressure than the ones coming with the aio.

in short, anything better than the cheapest unit they offer (in size you want), is good for now, and can be modded/upgraded later,
if you want to keep it they way it is "out of the box", getting the "upgraded/premium" one would be ok.
(i dont like spending money on something "better", if you plan on replacing it anyway).

 

[lorry]

If you plan on swapping pump/block, dont waste the money on the "better" aios,
but if you dont plan on doing that, they are a tick better.

e.g. a vpp755 pump (premium lineup) is still not something i would consider to keep/carry over, compared to a D5.
its like a good head unit/psu etc, you only replace if they break, wouldnt do that with the vpp.
or that you can get fans (arctic) that have less than half the noise, while providing a bit more static pressure than the ones coming with the aio.

in short, anything better than the cheapest unit they offer (in size you want), is good for now, and can be modded/upgraded later,
if you want to keep it they way it is "out of the box", getting the "upgraded/premium" one would be ok.
(i dont like spending money on something "better", if you plan on replacing it anyway).

So why knock back my original idea of building from scratch? Because If I am going to spend then I see no point in buying something to find out a while later that it isn't quite up to scratch and upgrades are needed?
Say
Alphacool NexXxoS ST30 Full Copper 360mm radiator V.2
XSPC RayStorm RGB Pro AMD CPU Water Block Black
whatever D5 pump combo and then the tubing and fittings
?