Any release date for Samsung 980 evo/pro?

[TheLostSwede]

it is funny how life works out that way sometimes. I decided to be patient on ryzen 4800x and big navi 2 or ampere, and then covid 19 hit, and its probably only going to get worse once the lockdown ends... and it has to end sometime... so I suspect everything will be delayed another year from this post.

No lockdown in Taiwan...

I'm honestly interested to see if the 980 can actually compete with the Phison controllers. Samsung has sat back and not innovated for so long that IMO they're in a similar position to Intel against AMD.

The current gen Phison controllers are actually quite meh, for a PCIe 4.0 controller, so I have no doubt that Samsung will be better. However, the question is if Samsung will be better than other controllers that are expected to arrive this year. They do have the advantage of making both controllers and the NAND flash, so they should technically have an edge due to this, if they can tune their controllers to work better with their own NAND flash somehow.

 

[MrAMD]

Stop that nonsense. It will double the transfer rate for huge files, how often do you move those around? Most of the time the difference will be zero.

For me at least, I move a lot of 4K video projects around. Can definitely tell the difference vs my sata drives. 980 day one please!

 

[R-T-B]

The only thing special about the 970 series is the Pro with MLC, yet people still buy the other models in droves because... reasons? Buying Samsung for SSDs is effectively the same as buying Apple for phones, you pay a lot more for nothing in the terms of performance or features.

I'm honestly interested to see if the 980 can actually compete with the Phison controllers. Samsung has sat back and not innovated for so long that IMO they're in a similar position to Intel against AMD.

The controller is a helluva lot better than Phison, it's only hampered by bus speed.

Hell SMI controllers are better than Phisons.

 

[R0H1T]

Silicon Motion have arguably been the best third party controllers since a long time, at least since Marvell quietly went AWOL, heck Intel uses them for a lot of their consumer drives.

 

[bug]

For me at least, I move a lot of 4K video projects around. Can definitely tell the difference vs my sata drives. 980 day one please!

Well, I didn't mean that PCIe 4.0 is totally useless, but that one of the few instances where it helps. And you have to transfer between two PCIe 4.0 drives or copying, not moving, on the same drive. Certainly not enough to tout those sequential speeds in every SSD thread. That's all.

But again, photo and video editors will love these.

 

[theonek]

and don't forget that for intensive read, especially write operations, mechanical spinners are slower but much more durable than any ssd, except server classes of course, so it is speed versus durability....

 

[Space Lynx]

I've had OCZ Vertex 4 and now I'm running an MX300, an 850EVO and a 970EVO. I could never tell you which is which in a blind test. I could tell you which my Seagate HDD, but that's it.

Also it helps if you can name the things you talk about: there's NVMe drives and there's AHCI drives. Both can be SSDs

@Assimilator You are right in general, but when I was shopping, my 970 EVO had about the same $/GB ratio as other good drives. Couldn't tell you if I got it on sale, just saying at least in one case Samsung made sense.

I can tell the difference between 144hz and 165hz in blind tests. Maybe some people are more capable of picking up sensitivities in motion than others. No, I will just say SSD when I mean the old slower variant, and Nvme when I mean the new faster one. meh

 

[P4-630]

I can tell the difference between 144hz and 165hz in blind tests. Maybe some people are more capable of picking up sensitivities in motion than others. No, I will just say SSD when I mean the old slower variant, and Nvme when I mean the new faster one. meh

 

[TheLostSwede]

Who invited Linus into this conversation? He can't tell a turd from a gold nugget.

 

[Space Lynx]

I never said it matters for games, I said I can notice an overall snappiness when loading up Chrome, or switching between that and several file explorers open, etc. It just seems "snappier" it's possible it's placebo, but my personal opinion is that it is now, NVME does make things snappier overall.

 

[Assimilator]

The controller is a helluva lot better than Phison, it's only hampered by bus speed.

Hell SMI controllers are better than Phisons.

Are you talking about the Samsung Phoenix controller? How do you know that it's better, when it's literally not in any available PCIe 4 product?

Further, if it was so good, why wouldn't Samsung just change the PCIe 3 PHY to PCIe 4 (like Phison did), and re-release it as the 980?

Unless, of course, it's just Samsung milking clueless customers as long as it can with ye olde 970... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[MrAMD]

And you have to transfer between two PCIe 4.0 drives or copying, not moving, on the same drive. Certainly not enough to tout those sequential speeds in every SSD thread. That's all.

But again, photo and video editors will love these.

Yeah in my usual setup I have multiple NVMe drives when dumping content and putting everything together. Compiling an completed project (400GB+) and moving it to the sata drives sucks. Going for an all NVMe setup asap

 

[bug]

Yeah in my usual setup I have multiple NVMe drives when dumping content and putting everything together. Compiling an completed project (400GB+) and moving it to the sata drives sucks. Going for an all NVMe setup asap

Too bad mobos only come with 2-3 M.2 slots. Makes upgrading a pita, because you won't have a spare slot to insert your old drive to move data. But for your setup I assume you'll be using a PCIe riser card.

 

[TheLostSwede]

Are you talking about the Samsung Phoenix controller? How do you know that it's better, when it's literally not in any available PCIe 4 product?

Further, if it was so good, why wouldn't Samsung just change the PCIe 3 PHY to PCIe 4 (like Phison did), and re-release it as the 980?

Unless, of course, it's just Samsung milking clueless customers as long as it can with ye olde 970... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Because what Phison did created a really, really, really hot running NVMe controller that doesn't live up to the performance potential of PCIe 4.0?
I take it you're aware that Phison did that controller on request by AMD, right? Just so there would be something that used PCIe 4.0 when X570 and the Ryzen 3000 series launched.
It was never meant to be the ultimate in PCIe 4.0 NVMe performance, it was purely made as quickly as possible and to be good enough to beat PCIe 3.0 NVMe drives.

 

[Assimilator]

Because what Phison did created a really, really, really hot running NVMe controller that doesn't live up to the performance potential of PCIe 4.0?
I take it you're aware that Phison did that controller on request by AMD, right? Just so there would be something that used PCIe 4.0 when X570 and the Ryzen 3000 series launched.
It was never meant to be the ultimate in PCIe 4.0 NVMe performance, it was purely made as quickly as possible and to be good enough to beat PCIe 3.0 NVMe drives.

I'm not saying that Phison or SMI have great controllers. I'm saying that Samsung's controller isn't the bees' knees, and that despite this, they continue to charge unrealistic prices for them... and people keep paying said prices.

 

[TheLostSwede]

I'm not saying that Phison or SMI have great controllers. I'm saying that Samsung's controller isn't the bees' knees, and that despite this, they continue to charge unrealistic prices for them... and people keep paying said prices.

Well, they're Samsung. Have you seen what their phones cost?

 

[Assimilator]

Well, they're Samsung. Have you seen what their phones cost?

You mean their Apple wannabe ripoffs?

 

[trparky]

I'm not saying that Phison or SMI have great controllers. I'm saying that Samsung's controller isn't the bees' knees, and that despite this, they continue to charge unrealistic prices for them... and people keep paying said prices.

What brand would you consider to be a decent brand to buy?

 

[bug]

What brand would you consider to be a decent brand to buy?

I'm all about Nokia these days. Never liked Samsung, their software is awful.

 

[trparky]

I'm all about Nokia these days. Never liked Samsung, their software is awful.

No, I mean SSDs. I've always found that Samsung SSDs to be the best but if someone can prove me wrong, go right ahead.

You can probably guess from my avatar that I have an iPhone, specifically the iPhone 11 Pro.

 

[R-T-B]

Silicon Motion have arguably been the best third party controllers since a long time, at least since Marvell quietly went AWOL, heck Intel uses them for a lot of their consumer drives.

I think you are confusing then with Samsung, but they certainly are a close second.

I'm not saying that Phison or SMI have great controllers. I'm saying that Samsung's controller isn't the bees' knees, and that despite this, they continue to charge unrealistic prices for them... and people keep paying said prices.

It kinda is. It blows the pants off other options honestly.

though, in benchmarks. Any of these are plenty good for real world usage.

What brand would you consider to be a decent brand to buy?

SMI based controller options are the only thing I'd consider other than Samsung.

Are you talking about the Samsung Phoenix controller? How do you know that it's better, when it's literally not in any available PCIe 4 product?

Because it performs better on pcie3 on every metric but burst transfer.

 

[trparky]

SMI

Silicon Motion?

 

[R-T-B]

Silicon Motion?

Yep. Anything with their controller I'd trust more than not.

 

[bug]

No, I mean SSDs. I've always found that Samsung SSDs to be the best but if someone can prove me wrong, go right ahead.

Honestly, since I got my 850EVO, I have considered Samsung overpriced. Then I got my Crucial drive. And, to my surprise, when I got my last SSD, 970EVO was again the winner.
As I read here on TPU, Samsung drives tend to get power states and everything right more often than others. But unless you're buying them for a laptop, that may not mean much to the end user.

TL;DR: Samsung SSD top-notch hardware, not uncommon to ask too much of a premium, don't discard as an option, always check pricing.

Also, I was coming from another thread, I thought I was replying to something else.

 

[trparky]

There's something to be said about vertical integration. Samsung makes the NAND Flash chips, the controller, and the firmware thus they can marry the individual components together much better than anyone else can. It's exactly the same that can be said about Apple and their A-series of SoC's and iOS. Apple makes the SoC and iOS so therefore they can marry them together like no one else can in the Android world. Apple's A-series of SoC's are custom made to be able to run iOS and consistently they've been able to absolutely trash everything that Qualcomm has made.

Even Qualcomm's latest Snapdragon 865 is having its head handed to it by Apple's A13 SoC. Apple's newest iPhone SE (2020 Edition) is a budget iPhone at $399 but when you look at what's under the hood it's anything but a budget phone with the exact same SoC that's in the iPhone 11 series. Talk about an iPhone that ticks every box on the list and does it in spades at a price that nearly everyone can afford including guaranteed software updates for at least six years. But I digress.

Again, like I said before... There's something to be said about vertical integration.