HP Touchsmart Envy 23 MXM card upgrade

[GabrielB]

Hi y'all. I'm trying to upgrade the graphics card on my HP AIO. Model is Envy 23 -d160qd.
Here are the specs:
IPISB-NK motherboard
Intel H61 chipset
Intel I-7 3770s Ivy Bridge CPU
2x8 GB Micron 16KTF1G64HZ-1G6E1 memory banks
Motherboard has a MXM-A 3.0 socket.
So far I tried successfully these 3 cards:
GeForce 630M
Radeon HD7450A
Radeon HD7650A (the one actually working on the machine)
Trying to get something a little bit better than the HD7650A.
So far I tested, with no luck, a Firepro M5100 (higher TDP, machine won't boot up, overheating power circuits on the MB).
And actually I'm testing a Quadro M1000M (same vendor, HP. Came from working HP Z1) and tomorrow I'll be receiving a Firepro M4000 that I will test. I don't understand why the M1000M does not work. The vendor is the same, the TDP is almost identical, format and socket pinout is the same, so, at least electrically, it should work. I tried booting the machine with the security boot disabled and the legacy mode enabled, but no luck so far. At this point I think that the problem is either the VBios or the BIOS on the computer, preventing the machine from booting up if a "non approved" MXM card is detected.
I'll appreciate any input from you guys. I tried already the HP forums but (and I don't want to be rude here) they're basically useless when you try to dig deeper into the issue.
Thanks a lot!

BTW...I forgot to mention that I already upgraded the power supply to a 230W one.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

You pretty much answered your own question. HP has a history of whitelisting only the parts it rolls off the factory line with in the bios.
If you buy a lower end unit where there is a higher end loadout that exists in the same line up. chances are you can upgrade your system with the same parts as shown on the higher end machine but thats about it.

There are a few places that do custom whitelisted bios's for all manner of all OEM machines it might be worth checking out some of their forums and seeing what they can do for you.

I got a HP laptop that wont even let me upgrade the wifi card inside to a faster one. its shitty but it is what it is. My next laptop was a rebadged Clevo unit which allowed me upgrade everything that was removable.

take this as a lesson and dont buy another HP machine again.

 

[GabrielB]

Thanks a lot FreedomEclipse. I read about that too, greedy companies that won't even allow their customers to use aftermarket accessories or upgrade the machines beyond what's provided by them . But I got the machine for free, and I already upgraded the memory, CPU and MXM card. I'm trying to see how far I can go with this machine. Even thinking about an eGPU if the M1000M or something better than what I have now doesn't work. We'll see...
And I will absolutely check that "custom bios" tip.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Honestly speaking, youre probably better off giving that to a family member who just wants something to watch youtube/netflix and browse the net on.

Just as a suggestion - you can find old dell office machines that go for pretty cheap on ebay and afaik dont have any sort of whitelist bios. your upgrades a limited to what you can physically fit inside the case and power restraints of the power supply that comes with it. Sometimes its propreitary, sometimes it isnt. its a gamble you have to take but Ive seen people on youtube buy and upgrade them. They work really well for casual gaming machines after you've added more ram and a dedicated GPU.

 

[tabascosauz]

Thanks a lot FreedomEclipse. I read about that too, greedy companies that won't even allow their customers to use aftermarket accessories or upgrade the machines beyond what's provided by them . But I got the machine for free, and I already upgraded the memory, CPU and MXM card. I'm trying to see how far I can go with this machine. Even thinking about an eGPU if the M1000M or something better than what I have now doesn't work. We'll see...
And I will absolutely check that "custom bios" tip.

Your 3770S and memory can easily slot into an LGA1155 7-series motherboard or 6-series with BIOS updates, given that you can find one for an affordable price. That will get you past the whitelist, for a cost. Apart from that, it's a locked 65W part, and I wouldn't go into it with expectations.

eGPU won't solve the problems you have. You'd need an interface like Thunderbolt or current USB-C that can carry PCIe signal. Regular old USB 2.0/3.0 cannot. Besides, it's an AIO, not a high-end workstation or respectable gaming PC. That HD7650A, a entry level, pitiful (even at release) VLIW5-gen rebrand, is probably representative of that AIO's designed graphics capabilities.

As for the Quadro M1000M, there's more to it than it coming from HP and having a similar TDP. It's a Maxwell-based Quadro that's two entire architectural generations newer than the OE GT 630M, regardless of which subvariant that 630M was. I highly doubt HP will put in the work to whitelist it for the 5 users in the world still looking to upgrade the AIO years later.

MXM cards are not plug-and-play like PCIe x16 cards are, in any application, period. You'll even see laptop users asking all the time if they can upgrade their MXM card to a higher end one of the exact same generation and family, and chances are still slim.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

Your 3770S and memory can easily slot into an LGA1155 7-series motherboard or 6-series with BIOS updates, given that you can find one for an affordable price. That will get you past the whitelist, for a cost. Apart from that, it's a locked 65W part, and I wouldn't go into it with expectations.

eGPU won't solve the problems you have. You'd need an interface like Thunderbolt or current USB-C that can carry PCIe signal. Regular old USB 2.0/3.0 cannot. Besides, it's an AIO, not a high-end workstation or respectable gaming PC. That HD7650A, a entry level, pitiful (even at release) VLIW5-gen rebrand, is probably representative of that AIO's designed graphics capabilities.

As for the Quadro M1000M, there's more to it than it coming from HP and having a similar TDP. It's a Maxwell-based Quadro that's two entire architectural generations newer than the OE GT 630M, regardless of which subvariant that 630M was. I highly doubt HP will put in the work to whitelist it for the 5 users in the world still looking to upgrade the AIO years later.

MXM cards are not plug-and-play like PCIe x16 cards are, in any application, period. You'll even see laptop users asking all the time if they can upgrade their MXM card to a higher end one of the exact same generation and family, and chances are still slim.

Might wanna double check with the motherboard compatibility. His HP uses laptop ram

 

[GabrielB]

Thanks a lot tabascosauz and FreedomEclipse. I was able to dump the bios from another IPISB-NK motherboard that I have as a spare, open it with a program and edit it. Looks like HP does not only whitelists components but also tamper proofs their bios files to avoid users like me bypassing the whitelist. I might be able to crack it, but it'll take hours and hours, and even that way I don't know if the chips on both the MB and the MXM card will be able to work together. What makes me angry is that, from the electrical and physical point of view, we users should have a lot more options to keep our machines working better and for a longer time. Example of this is the idiotic whitelist of the W-LAN cards on some HP machines, or what Apple does locking their devices so you cannot even use third party peripherals or even accessories.
I already spent a few hours researching on this and it is just not worth it. But lesson learned...I liked the idea of having the cleanliness of a touchscreen AIO with a little bit more powerful video card (even though the M1000M is not powerful at all by modern standars). But I guess I might just sell this system and get a cheap Dell Optiplex 9020MT CPU with an I7 already installed on it. I'll be able to install whatever regular desktop video card I want, upgrade the PSU accordingly, add more memory and have whatever screen size I like.
To be honest, I like messing with hardware and pushing the limits on it. Been doing this for some 35 years already (I work on electronics btw), so we'll see if this is the end.....

 

[silentbogo]

The main issue is not whitelisting, but power limitations of the board.
I think the hard limit on that particular board is around 35W (at least according to HP), so the most you could get is an MXM variant of GT940M.
The slot itself is Type A - rated for no more than 55W.

 

[GabrielB]

GT940M is a dedicated GPU as far as I know. That means it only comes as a part of a motherboard, not on MXM format, so it's out of the question for me. As for the TDP limit of 55W that you mentioned on the slot, if that's the case the M1000M, with a TDP of 40W, should work. Anyways, I'm waiting for the mail to deliver the Firepro M4000. Even though it only has 1GB of VRAM, it runs circles around the HD7650A that I have on the system now, it has exactly the same TDP (33W) and it's the same generation of the chipset and CPU...I'll report back when I test it later today...

 

[silentbogo]

GT940M is a dedicated GPU as far as I know.

There's an MXM variant, which is basically a cut-down version of 950M MXM. Looks the same as GTX960M MXM, only with even more crippled GM107 GPU and half as many GDDR5 chips (but theoretically a little bit faster than GM108 variant). It's even in TPU DB.

EDIT: there's even weirder stuff, like 930M MXM (basically K620M's twin brother)

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[FreedomEclipse]

Im no expert but maybe @R-T-B would like to come share some words of wisdom.

I know it boils down to adding hardware/device IDs to a list somewhere in these bios but im not savvy enough to know how to do it.

 

[GabrielB]

OK...last update...I tried the Firepro M4000 that I received today. Machine won't boot, no error codes, fan at max speed. So no luck on M4000. So at this point I'm 100% confident about the BIOS compatibility list. And I'm not messing around with this machine anymore. I might keep it just for general stuff and maybe put together a dedicated system just for gaming. We'll see...
Thanks a lot to the ones that chimed in and I'll stay around....

 

[R-T-B]

Im no expert but maybe @R-T-B would like to come share some words of wisdom.

I know it boils down to adding hardware/device IDs to a list somewhere in these bios but im not savvy enough to know how to do it.

I've never really gotten into whitelist removals. I'm sure it's a uefi module somewhere, but beyond that no idea.

 

[GabrielB]

Well...there is a uefi volume, but, since the machine halts without any screen prompt (unlike what happens when you install an "unauthorized" wifi card) I don't have any clue about where to start digging on the bios dump file.

 

[silentbogo]

Well...there is a uefi volume, but, since the machine halts without any screen prompt (unlike what happens when you install an "unauthorized" wifi card) I don't have any clue about where to start digging on the bios dump file.

Can you attach it here? I'll take a look at it this weekend.

 

[GabrielB]

OK...here we go...had to zip it because the site was not happy with me trying to upload in bin format...