550w PSU and RTX 2070 super gaming Z trio

[Durden]

Hello,
I just got the components to build my very first gaming pc.
For the PSU I got Seasonic Core gx-550 (550w) 80+ gold. (This core naming -with asus tuf alliance logo- is kind of new and only in certain markets apparently)

For the components Here's what I got :
-Ryzen 5 3600x
-MSI RTX 2070 super gaming Z trio
-2x8gb corsair 3200 lpx
-1x480gb nvme corsair mp510
-1tb 2.5 sata 3 hdd 7200rpm
-Asus tuf b450m-gaming plus
-2x120mm non rgb fans
-1x140mm non rgb fan
-A gaming keyboard and mouse
-15 cm rgb strip
-24 inch IPS LCD

According to multiple psu calculators, 550 should be fine.
On outervision calculator I got a maximum load of 490 w , with a recommendation for a 540 watts PSU.

What concerns me is that on the packaging of the GPU and on MSI's website they recommend a 650 watt psu as a minimum! (I know tha gaming z trio has an overclocked memory and core by default but 650W is absurdly high)

What do you think ? Is it SAFE/enough to use it ? ; If I opened the psu package I won't be able to refund it.

P.S.: Things are expensive here, that seasonic psu cost me >120USD . So Should I splash extra and get a corsair rm750i (750 watts) which almost costs an extra 100$ (I mentioned the 750 one because the 650 is only like 15-20 $ cheaper)

Thanks

 

[P4-630]

Go with a Seasonic GX Focus Plus 750W so you have some extra power for future upgrades.
It's what I did when I bought my MSI 2070 Super.

 

[FreedomEclipse]

what @P4-630 said. but you dont need to go as far as 750w. you could even go 650 is plenty. even my own machine struggles to pull 500w

 

[jlewis02]

It will work but I would run a 650w as a minimum.

 

[Regeneration]

First try the current PSU, and if it can't take the load, then upgrade.

 

[mstenholm]

I have a 2070 Super, a 3900X and a WC setup. The maximum I have seen with 100% CPU and 99% GPU is 440 W, all stock. You are good but I would never do it myself.

 

[EarthDog]

You'll be fine.... your rig wont pull more than 400W bud... 550W is plenty, including overclocking both. Going 750W is certainly not worth $100 more.

If it makes you feel better, go 650W... but it will be fine.

 

[Durden]

You'll be fine.... your rig wont pull more than 400W bud... 550W is plenty, including overclocking both. Going 750W is certainly not worth $100 more.

If it makes you feel better, go 650W... but it will be fine.

With the humble knowledge I have I didn't think it would even reach 450W, that's why I opted for 559W.
But what's up with the vendors (in this case MSI) crazy 650W recommendations ?

Edit: also I'm not planning on overclocking at all

 

[Valantar]

550W is perfectly fine. Most RTX 2070s pull about 200W, with a heavy OC maybe hitting 250. Your CPU will peak around 90W (IIRC the limit for 65W Zen 2 is high 80s) unless overclocked, and even then its unlikely to go much past 100W. Gaming loads never push the CPU to peak power either. But let's stick with worst case scenario and just add the highest possible totals together, so 350W so far. The motherboard and RAM will use less than 20W combined, with another 5 for the SSD, 5 for the HDD, and 5 for each fan and the RGB strip (fans are likely far less than 5W unless they are very high pressure or have RGB). That leaves you with 400W as an absolute maximum internal power draw for your system if the GPU and CPU are both overclocked and loaded to 100%, which they won't be for any amount of time unless you are running heavy compute workloads. If you're gaming you'll never see those numbers. (For reference, my stock 95W 1600X + 275W Fury X system hits 420-430W at the wall while gaming, which includes PSU losses, so internal draw is ~350-370W.) But still, let's stick with 400W internal power draw for safety, and as a rule of thumb I add a 20% margin to account for PSU aging and any future upgrades within the lifetime of the PSU. That leaves you with a "minimum" (with plenty of margin built in) PSU output rating of 480W. A 550W unit will thus be more than suitable for your use (instead of a 20% margin you have near 40%), and even if you should upgrade to a 275-300W GPU in the future. Anything higher output will be complete overkill.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Is a 550W PSU enough for 2070 super gaming z trio ?

Yes, but it doesn't give you a whole lot headroom for future upgrades or expansion. I love and regularly use the eXtreme OuterVision PSU Calculator. It is by far, the most conservative and therefore best PSU calculator. And it too says 550W is enough. But it is important to note all calculators pad their results - at least a little - to avoid the grave mistake of recommending an underpowered supply.

Whether you do the research yourself or use a calculator, it must be assumed that all the devices in the computer will draw maximum power at the exact same time, even though that would be an extremely rare event. So I agree it would be unlikely you will ever even reach 400W. 550W is plenty. 750W is overkill. I might consider 650W if I got a really good deal and thought I might upgrade to major power hungry devices a year or two down the road.

 

[EarthDog]

With the humble knowledge I have I didn't think it would even reach 450W, that's why I opted for 559W.
But what's up with the vendors (in this case MSI) crazy 650W recommendations ?

Edit: also I'm not planning on overclocking at all

Because there are garbage power supplies around and they have to account for such things that may not have ample headroom or cant produce their label rating. Like the power supply calcs, they always add more than needed.

 

[Durden]

550W is perfectly fine. Most RTX 2070s pull about 200W, with a heavy OC maybe hitting 250. Your CPU will peak around 90W (IIRC the limit for 65W Zen 2 is high 80s) unless overclocked, and even then its unlikely to go much past 100W. Gaming loads never push the CPU to peak power either. But let's stick with worst case scenario and just add the highest possible totals together, so 350W so far. The motherboard and RAM will use less than 20W combined, with another 5 for the SSD, 5 for the HDD, and 5 for each fan and the RGB strip (fans are likely far less than 5W unless they are very high pressure or have RGB). That leaves you with 400W as an absolute maximum internal power draw for your system if the GPU and CPU are both overclocked and loaded to 100%, which they won't be for any amount of time unless you are running heavy compute workloads. If you're gaming you'll never see those numbers. (For reference, my stock 95W 1600X + 275W Fury X system hits 420-430W at the wall while gaming, which includes PSU losses, so internal draw is ~350-370W.) But still, let's stick with 400W internal power draw for safety, and as a rule of thumb I add a 20% margin to account for PSU aging and any future upgrades within the lifetime of the PSU. That leaves you with a "minimum" (with plenty of margin built in) PSU output rating of 480W. A 550W unit will thus be more than suitable for your use (instead of a 20% margin you have near 40%), and even if you should upgrade to a 275-300W GPU in the future. Anything higher output will be complete overkill.

First and foremost most I LOVE Snufkin I have him as profile pic on other forums .
Thank you very much for the time you put into this. I believe what you've said is correct as that's the most popular opinion from what I've read.
So just to be on the safe side, what is the worst case scenario that could happen if the PSU wasn't enough ?

 

[Regeneration]

Bad performance or system lockup / crash / shutdown / restart.

 

[Bill_Bright]

So just to be on the safe side, what is the worst case scenario that could happen if the PSU wasn't enough ?

Worst case scenario is the excessive current demand causes the PSU to overheat, catch fire and burn your house down!

But the likely scenario is the PSU's thermal and/or overcurrent protection circuits cause the PSU to just shut down. But again, to exceed the power capacity of the PSU, the graphics solution, CPU, motherboard, RAM, all the drives, and all the fans, and any other connected device that gets power through the motherboard and power supply must demand maximum power at the exact same point in time. It is very rare for the CPU and GPU to max out at the same point in time, let alone all other connected components too.

Edit comments: Fixed typos

 

[EarthDog]

So just to be on the safe side, what is the worst case scenario that could happen if the PSU wasn't enough ?

Well, your system will never do that, first of all... even with everything attached running full tilt at the same time. So, no worries.

Quality power supplies have multiple protections (such as OCP and OTP (over Current, over Temperature Protection) which should kick in if you get close. The most unrealistic 'real' load you have with all things at once is running a CPU stress test and GPU benchmark. If that doesn't work, maybe some magic smoke and fire... but this is why we buy quality PSUs like the one you have. While nothing is perfect (before anyone douchily splits hairs, lol) these are reliable... and again see the first line.

Enjoy your system!!

 

[Valantar]

With the humble knowledge I have I didn't think it would even reach 450W, that's what I opted for 559W.
But what's up with the vendors (in this case MSI) crazy 650W recommendations ?

As @EarthDog said above, it's about liability - they have to account for garbage PSUs, and they have to account for pretty much every possible build out there. It doesn't matter if >99% of builds are similar to yours, they still need to account for data hoarders with ten 3.5" HDDs in their systems or people with other odd, uncommon power draws. Both PSU calculators and OEM recommendations are best disregarded due to this.

The best rule of thumb IMO is the equation I used: max real-world power draw from reviews, added up for all major power draws (i.e. CPU and GPU in most builds) (this already adds a decent margin as real world draws never add up like this), + 5W per SSD or 2.5" HDD, 5W per fan, 15W per 3.5" HDD, 10W per AIO pump or other small water pump (check its rating if you have a D5 or other large pump), 15-25W for mobo+RAM (larger/more complex boards need more power, more DIMMs use more power), + anything outside of this by its labeled rating. Then add 20% for safety margins, allowance for PSU aging, and future upgrades. I've never seen a situation where this doesn't more than adequately account for system power draw including future upgrades (the vast majority of people stay within a power draw class when upgrading, but if not there's still enough margin to account for most increases here), though there are people out there who would insist you should add 50% or more as a baseline, which is pure overkill and just hurts efficiency when the system is idle. Doesn't matter much, but that kind of wasteful thinking gets on my nerves (and is largely why there are hardly any good <500W PSUs on the market despite the average gaming PC these days consuming 250W or less).

First and foremost most I LOVE Snufkin I have him as profile pic on other forums .
Thank you very much for the time you put into this. I believe what you've said is correct as that's the most popular opinion from what I've read.
So just to be on the safe side, what is the worst case scenario that could happen if the PSU wasn't enough ?

Hehe, thanks, Snufkin was my childhood idol and don't mention it, as I said above its a pretty easy equation that I have more or less memorized. Doesn't take much effort!

As for the worst case scenario, as @Bill_Bright said above, the absolute worst is a disaster (though any PSU from a respectable manufacturer has had plenty of protections to avoid that for the past decade and a half if not more). The slightly more realistic one is the PSU dying and taking other hardware with it - but again, any respectable PSU has protections to avoid that. I've had two PSUs die on me in recent years with no damage - one was my then 7-year-old not exactly premium "850W" unit when I first got my Fury X in 2015 (yes, the PSU was from 2008 and PSU quality has improved massively since then), the second was the replacement I got for it that arrived DOA - it blew a MOSFET immediately when put under load and after that tripped the circuit breaker every time it was connected to power - AC shorted directly to ground. Not fun for a brand new unit, but of course I got it replaced under warranty and never thought about it again.

None of those failures (both under likely ~450W or higher internal loads at the time of failure with my old overclocked Core2Quad) did any damage to anything else.

As for an actually realistic worst case scenario with an underpowered PSU? System instability, inexplicable shutdowns, things crashing, or the PSU having its overcurrent or overtempersture protections triggered and shutting down abruptly. But that requires your system to be able to pull more power than the PSU is capable of delivering, which yours isn't even close to unless there is something seriously wrong with your PSU.

But the likely scenario is the PSU's thermal and/or overcurrent protection circuits cause the CPU to just shut down. But again, to exceed the power capacity of the PSU, the graphics solution, CPU, motherboard, RAM, all the drives, and all the fans, and any other connected device that gets power through the motherboard and power supply must demand maximum power at the exact same point in time. It is very rare for the CPU and GPU to max out at the same point in time, let alone all other connected components too.

... As long as the components are capable of exceeding the PSU's output capacity, which is of course not the case here.

 

[Durden]

Thanks guys, as I said once I open the PSU package and try it I won't be able to refund it.
But anyway, I decided to go with it.
What @Valantar , @EarthDog and @Bill_Bright said and explained makes sense to me, you seem experienced and really know what you're talking about.
So I don't think my current setup warrants more than 550w .
And I think the current seasonic core gx 550w 80+ gold PSU is reliable, safe and good enough.
I'm not planning on overclocking anything. And won't be using anything AIO.
I
Ithink It's safe to proceed and build up the pc (heck I can't stand looking at it doing nothing -I can't get my hand on another PSU at least till monday.. so.. :"] )

Thanks everyone, much appreciated

 

[thebluebumblebee]

This is TPU. We don't have to guesstimate:

That's using a RTX 2080 Ti, which takes 40+ watts more than the MSI RTX 2070 super gaming Z trio.

 

[Deleted member 67555]

Fully OC'd GPU I'm pulling 384w with a 2600x/2080s...
Assuming you get an actual 80% efficient PSU...@ 500w that still gives you 400w and plenty of headroom to OC...pretty sure most lower mid-grade 80+ PSU's are 86%+

 

[thebluebumblebee]

Assuming you get an actual 80% efficient PSU...@ 500w that still gives you 400w

Sorry, but that is completely wrong. A 500 watt PSU is rated for 500 watts OUTPUT. It's rating is NOT based on wattage from the wall minus inefficiencies, The OP's PSU:

From JG's test of an EVGA 450BT. Look at the AC input for test number 5:

I wonder if shady sales people perpetuate this lie in order to sell larger and more expensive PSU's?

 

[EarthDog]

Fully OC'd GPU I'm pulling 384w with a 2600x/2080s...
Assuming you get an actual 80% efficient PSU...@ 500w that still gives you 400w and plenty of headroom to OC...pretty sure most lower mid-grade 80+ PSU's are 86%+

What bumblebee said. It doesn't take away from output. It just uses more to make the same output. If your pc is using 400W with a 80 efficiency (80 plus) psu it is pulling 480w from the wall to do so. Assuming 90% efficiency (80 plus gold at its peak) it pus 440w from the wall to give the pc 400W.

Here are the 80 plus tiers...

80 Plus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[Deleted member 67555]

What bumblebee said. It doesn't take away from output. It just uses more to make the same output. If your pc is using 400W with a 80 efficiency (80 plus) psu it is pulling 480w from the wall to do so. Assuming 90% efficiency (80 plus gold at its peak) it pus 440w from the wall to give the pc 400W.

Here are the 80 plus tiers...

80 Plus - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I get it and what i had confused now....LoL rated is rated derp.

Simple answer is sleep good with the 550w

 

[Jetster]

So just ignore the recommendation of a 650w PSU

Ever think it might void the warranty?

 

[thebluebumblebee]

If your pc is using 400W with a 80 efficiency (80 plus) psu it is pulling 480w from the wall to do so. Assuming 90% efficiency (80 plus gold at its peak) it pus 440w from the wall to give the pc 400W.

Your maths are wrong. It takes algebra to do this right!

 

[EarthDog]

So just ignore the recommendation of a 650w PSU

The only thing that hurts is the wallet.

think it might void the warranty?

what would?

Your maths are wrong. It takes algebra to do this right!

oh boy.... yes... if an 80% efficient psu was pulling 500W at the wall, the pc is using 400W. Sorry.. needed my first beer there.