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How does one review the effectiveness of thermal paste?

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How does one review the effectiveness of thermal paste?

This might seem a silly question, one just reports the CPU temperature under the same load;
but the fan might be controlled to run such that the CPU temperature remains at a given set
temperature.
Under such feedback most all thermal pastes would seem to perform nearly the same,
toothpaste included.

Would fan speed then perhaps be a better measure?
 
"How does one review the effectiveness of thermal paste? "

You keep all other variables the same and the only variable that changes is the thermal paste. Compare the outcome which in this case is temperature.

Edit: Or if you want to do if the way you suggested you'd have to attempt to have the CPU temperature the same between the different tested thermal paste and use the fan speed / airflow required to maintain that temp as the measured outcome. That seems a bit more convoluted than setting everything the same and just witnessing the results.
 
How does one do that? the fan speed will vary with paste type (it is under feedback control).

i.e. The fan could be controlled such that the CPU is held at a desired temperature and then all pastes would seem equally good.
 
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Why would the fan speed vary?
 
When the CPU is under load and gets hot one can hear the fan being sped up.
 
How does one do that? the fan speed will vary with paste type (it is under feedback control).

i.e. The fan could be controlled such that the CPU is held a desired temperature and then all pastes would seem equally good.

Fan can be set to run at 100% all the time for example instead of adjusting dynamically.
 
The typical way to evaluate thermal paste is to keep all variables the same and only change the variable under test which in this case would be the thermal paste. All variables includes fan speed.

With that being said, I could see an argument that the hotter a CPU gets the more power it will consume even under an identical load. Typically, the resistance of conductors increase as they increase in temperature. However, with such small temperature deltas between different thermal pastes I feel like this influence becomes minimal.
 
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How right you are
seems to have fans set to a fixed speed.

I didn't realize this when I first asked the question.
 
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I think most reviews are wrong as the termal pastes that are curing are evaporative and noncuring ones are nonevaporative. Evaporation limits the effective working life of applied pastes so they require more maintenance periods.
 
I would be happy to lose a few degrees in exchange for longevity.
 
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Best way to test that would be using a Dummy heater. So that you can set a wattage that will always be consistent from 1 run to the next. Thing with using a real cpu is when you run a bench mark it can be slightly different from 1 run to the next. With least a dummy heater you can run say 200watts and it will be same heat from 1 paste to the next.
 
Under such feedback most all thermal pastes would seem to perform nearly the same,
toothpaste included.
That of course is not true. I have never seen any legitimate review that said toothpaste performed "nearly the same" as any legitimate TIM (thermal interface material).

The suggestion to use toothpaste in the first place years ago was done as a silly joke. It never was meant to be taken seriously and it never should be suggested in any way today. The link you included even says toothpaste was not included in their reviews. And for good reasons. Toothpaste is an abrasive. It has bolder size particles (microscopically speaking) in it designed to scrape off tarter and scum. Don't even try it for fun.

Effective working life is another fallacy. Any decent TIM will easily last 5, 10, 15 years or longer AS LONG AS the cured bond between the CPU and heatsink mating surfaces is not broken.

Note there is not one single CPU, GPU, motherboard, computer, heatsink/cooler or even TIM maker, NOT ONE, that says the TIM needs to be replaced every X number of years.

Yes, a fresh new application of TIM "might" yield a couple degrees improved performance. But if you "need" those few degrees to keep from crossing over thermal protection thresholds, then you have other more immediate cooling problems that need addressing first - like case cooling.

Yet another fallacy is the claim that cooler is always better. WRONG! It certainly is absolutely and critically essential to maintain our electronics "comfortably" within its "normal" operating temperature range. No argument there. But there is absolutely nothing that indicates a CPU, as an example, running at 25°C will perform better, be more stable, or have a longer life span than a CPU running at 50 or even 55°C.

So it is absolutely and critically essential to keep our electronics properly cooled, but trying to achieve the coolest temps possible does nothing except, maybe, provide bragging rights.

So it is important to use a quality TIM, but it certainly does not need to be the best rated, or most expensive.

Another fallacy - TIM does NOT need to be replaced if it dries out! The purpose of TIM is to fill the microscopic pits and valleys in the mating surfaces to push out and to prevent insulating air in. The ONLY reason TIM comes in a liquified form is so it can easily be squeezed out of the tube and evenly spread out across the component surface. If the applied TIM dries, the solids within are left behind and still occupying those microscopic pits and valleys and doing their job of keeping insulating air out. This is why "open" tubes of TIM have a shelf life - air has gotten in and hardened the TIM into solid chunks that prevent a smooth application of new TIM.

TIM Rules:
  1. Use TIM - don't go bare.
  2. Thoroughly clean the mating surfaces of old TIM, dust, oils and other grime before applying TIM.
  3. Too much TIM is "in the way" and "counterproductive" to the most efficient transfer of heat. Apply as thin a layer as possible that still ensures full coverage.
  4. Mount the heatsink assembly properly.
  5. Once mounted, do not twist the heatsink to see if it is loose - you are likely to break the cured bond, making it loose which then allows insulating air in between the mating surfaces. In other words, once properly applied and the cooler mounted, LEAVE IT ALONE!
 
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but they did test it
Yes, in the past - and not recently. And the original article for that comparison made it clear, toothpaste and denture creams were not acceptable.

The subject merits so much time, because there are so many fallacies and misconceptions won't go away. :(
 
How does one review the effectiveness of thermal paste?

200.gif


It's a very subjective "matter", taste it and you'll know what i mean.

Oh and by the way, no need to report back, i'm not responsible if you get sick :)
 
Yes, in the past - and not recently. And the original article for that comparison made it clear, toothpaste and denture creams were not acceptable.

The subject merits so much time, because there are so many fallacies and misconceptions won't go away. :(

My apologies if I in any way at all suggested the use of toothpaste as a thermally conductive paste.
 
Note there is not one single CPU, GPU, motherboard, computer, heatsink/cooler or even TIM maker, NOT ONE, that says the TIM needs to be replaced every X number of years.
Don't have to be so dismissive. I would like to see the same support in ps5 liquid metal interface discussion. Convection currents can be your friend, it is watercooling on a dime.
If the applied TIM dries, the solids within are left behind and still occupying those microscopic pits and valleys and doing their job of keeping insulating air out.
Hey, I don't want my cpu with a side of thermal cake. I want it with paste. Customer is always right.
 
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Don't have to be so dismissive
It is not being dismissive - apologies if it seemed that way. But I am trying to "dismiss" the fallacies and present and share the facts I've learned over the years as an experienced, formally trained and certified electronics tech (see link in sig to see if I might have a little background in this area).
I would like to see the same support in ps5 liquid metal interface discussion. Convection currents can be your friend, it is watercooling on a dime.
See the "same support"? Not sure of your points. My point is, any decent TIM will do when properly applied. Convection can certainly be your friend as long as the heat has an avenue through which it can escape. In "passive" (no fan) cooling, that may mean a large vent in the case above the cooler. Or the escape may be in the "flow" of cool air through and out of the case created by fans. Watercooling, IMO is overrated.
My apologies if I in any way at all suggested the use of toothpaste as a thermally conductive paste.
No apologies necessary. I did not take your comments that way. But sadly, some believe toothpaste can be used. :(
Hey, I don't want my cpu with a side of thermal cake. I want it with paste. Customer is always right.
Well, the customer is not always right, but I personally agree with you. I don't like thermal "cake" or those "pads" either. For one, a CPU can go from cool to overheated in a few clock cycles. And with today's CPUs running at 3+ billions clock cycles per second, that's fast. And since it takes time for those thermal "pads" to melt and distribute the TIM after the first boot, it scares me that they may not spread quick enough if, for example, the cooler is not mounted properly.

Second, many of those pads consist mostly of paraffin that is designed melt, flow about and then to evaporate once liquified. I don't like the idea of paraffin oozing out between my heatsink and CPU and on to the socket and motherboard. While I have never personally seen that happen, I see it in my imagination a lot. Good enough for me to avoid it. ;)
 
What is really scaring me is gallium on aluminum
Thats why, at least for Contactonaut, a huge red paper inside the package states the "Do not use with Aluminium" along with some Xs.

I use liquid metal for about 8~9months now. Nickel palated CPU IHS and copper coldplate of the AIO block/pump package. Its expensive compound not only for its price on purchase but also because you need to do several applications when copper coldplates are at least the 1 side of the 2 contact surfaces. If both sides are copper I assume you need to replace it sooner, at least in half time.

As of performance... yes it is the best TIM you can get. I saw about 5~6C reduction on max temp (100% load) compared to ArcticSilver5.
Does it worth it? That depends on how you see things. For me yes it does, and I knew from the biginning that with copper needs re-application after short(er) period of time and not just once. I dont mind the cost, its too small among other expenses.

I saw der8ouer talking about it saying that needs replacement after 2 months for at least 2~3 times before you leave it for long. I find that for the first replacement it needs to be done on the month, not 2. For the second its ok to leave it 2~3months.
I first replace it after ~50 days and it was a bit late. Gallium had saturated copper in such amount that whats left behind was almost like very thin layer of dried compound, like a thin leave.

20200309_195824545_iOS.jpg

20200309_195756823_iOS.jpg

20200309_200256940_iOS.jpg

It was a little hard to clean IHS but the AIO coldplate was a lot lot harder. I did some abrasion to remove it from copper surface from certain points/spots.

This is the final result.

20200309_203843278_iOS.jpg

Next application

20200309_204819925_iOS.jpg

After that I left it for 3 months and when I remove it again it was a lot easier for both as it wasnt dried this time. I'm on the 3rd month now (of 3rd application) and I will do it again next month. After that the copper saturation from gallium would be enough and slowed down for the TIM to last even longer.
You can see that AIO's coldplate is not as it was new, little scraped from "cleaning" process, but I did not see any cooling performance drop. I quess the high thermal conductivity of liquid metal makes up for it.

Another thing to consider other than cost, re-application and cleaning is the danger of shortcircuit components around the socket or the CPU itself. Needs extra care treatment, especially for beginners.
 
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I saw der8ouer talking about it saying that needs replacement after 2 months for at least 2~3 times before you leave it for long. I find that for the first replacement it needs to be done on the month, not 2. For the second its ok to leave it 2~3months.

I prefer thermal grease that lasts indefinitely; I don't mind a few degrees hotter.
 

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Here's a TIM 2019 test by Guru 3d.

Testing methodology
 
As I mentioned above, one could imagine a fan control such that the CPU temperature was fixed; then all pastes would seem equally effective.
 
I prefer thermal grease that lasts indefinitely; I don't mind a few degrees hotter.
Thats Ok!
I'm dont have a mindset that every one must or should use it.
I prefer high performance...So?

I was only giving away info about it. I think I was honest about it for pros and cons. You are doing a thermal paste "research" I would say... so I thought I'd give some information that not everyone can get easy.

As I mentioned above, one could imagine a fan control such that the CPU temperature was fixed; then all pastes would seem equally effective.
They are not equal. Altering fan rpm to maintain same CPU/GPU temp, on the same ambient temp with the same cooler implies different thermal characteristics. So one paste giving you lower noise from another.
 
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