PSU expert required - Is my PSU good enough still?

[drewpts]

Hi

Currently the PSU supplies next: R7 3700X/X470/16 Gb 3333MHz/RTX 3070 OC/2x M.2
The PSU is - Seasonic M12II-620 Evo Bronze.
https://seasonic.com/m12ii-evo

It goes pretty smooth as far I can see/feel. The PC is little bit more than year old.
Also worth to mention, the beefy 5700XT has been working for a year before I got the 3070 one.

The gaming and home pet projects are the main objectives running on the PC.

My current question is - is it ok to run given system at so outdated PSU, especially if it has Bronze certification?
Btw, I heard despite this one is Bronze it has decent electronic design and capacitors from Gold PSUs... As well as opposite thoughts

Do I have to update it to something more modern? If yes - what it could be?

P.S. One point is bothering me that I could not get my system running stable based on 1usmus' CTR recommendations despite my CPU is silver rated... Starting to assume the PSU could be a reason...

I would glad to hear any thoughts...

 

[Mussels]

PSU is fine, you have a 65W CPU - HEAPS leftover

 

[FreedomEclipse]

I would say youre cutting it close... (though what is 'cutting it close' is subjective and differs from person to person)

Heres a gaming load for a 3070

and gaming load for the 3700X

Though this result is the entire test bench which sees the 3700X paired up with a 2080Ti.

 

[nuggdoctor]

ild recommend an evga 850BQ for that system if i was building it for a customer. its what i run in my rig. gives me plenty of oc overhead for my ram cpu and gpu with a lot to spare. youve got newer and higher demanding system then i do. But an 850 would do great for you.

 

[dirtyferret]

My current question is - is it ok to run given system at so outdated PSU, especially if it has Bronze certification?

Bronze certification does not make that PSU outdated, its group regulation design does that.

 

[djisas]

For my lowly 3600 build, I cut nothing on psu, went with a 750 gold seasonic prime, overkill, but what's 20-30€ for peace of mind, besides if it runs at ~30% all the time, less heat and no noise...

 

[drewpts]

gives me plenty of oc overhead for my ram cpu and gpu with a lot to spare.

nah, I do not care about overclock

but what's 20-30€ for peace of mind

new PSU to replace doesn't cost 30 euros , such a statement is true for building system from scratch, though ...

Though this result is the entire test bench which sees the 3700X paired up with a 2080Ti.

2080Ti consumes for 60W more energy than 3070 therefore 620 W is ok for this particular system, so question remains active in group regulation design paradigms... Is it ok to use PSU of almost 10 years of design within modern system.

 

[Mister300]

What to look for in old PSU ( self disclosure I use a 8 yr old EVGA 1 KW PSU in my rig)

1. Check for burning smell or odd odor when running.
2. Does it run hot?
3. If 1 and 2 occur I would remove cover and clean out the dust bunnies with a vac or compressed air, also I would look for bulging capacitors and burn marks or shorted components. Some solder oxidation is normal. Can buy deoxIT spray from local electronics store. https://www.amazon.com/Hosa-D5S-6-DeoxIT-Contact-Cleaner/dp/B00006LVEU

 

[Frick]

Bronze certification does not make that PSU outdated, its group regulation design does that.

This. It's group regulated, which means it handles modern loads terribly.

 

[dirtyferret]

nah, I do not care about overclock

new PSU to replace doesn't cost 30 euros , such a statement is true for building system from scratch, though ...


2080Ti consumes for 60W more energy than 3070 therefore 620 W is ok for this particular system, so question remains active in group regulation design paradigms... Is it ok to use PSU of almost 10 years of design within modern system.

The PSU itself will work as long as it is running fine. You have more then enough power as you will be around 300 to 350w gaming. That specific platform was solid although had a cheap OCP, aggressive fan curve, and could drop efficiency out of bronze level when pushed to its limit. Also

capacitors from Gold PSUs.

Capacitors and efficiency are two separate things. You can have solid 105c caps from good vendors in a bronze PSu, you can have mediocre 85c caps from mediocre vendors in a gold PSU.

This. It's group regulated, which means it handles modern loads terribly.

I would not recommend a group regulated design today unless the other options were just junk. They are not as efficient as many of today's DC-DC units and yes when pushed can have issues with efficiency and ATX spec. That said, I don't like telling people to go spend their money when obviously something is capable, already doing the job just fine, and won't be pushed to its limit.

FYI, Seasonic made the 750w M12 Sii DC to DC but 620w and below are group. Another reason why someone should always read reviews and not just assume one platform (or parts) is used throughout an entire line.

ild recommend an evga 850BQ for that system if i was building it for a customer. its what i run in my rig. gives me plenty of oc overhead for my ram cpu and gpu with a lot to spare. youve got newer and higher demanding system then i do. But an 850 would do great for you.

you probably should not be giving people PSU advice as other that price for a 850w unit (which is overkill for the OP), that unit is purely mediocre in efficiency, noise, load regulation, and it's lack of OTP is rather worrisome

I would say youre cutting it close...

At max his set up would hit 350w gaming, I don't think "cutting it close" means what you think it means

 

[nuggdoctor]

you probably should not be giving people PSU advice as other that price for a 850w unit (which is overkill for the OP), that unit is purely mediocre in efficiency, noise, load regulation, and it's lack of OTP is rather worrisome

It makes almost no noise in my pc. the pump to my corsair 240mm aio is louder. It gets a minimum of 85% efficiency under regular loads, and it has OVP, UVP, OCP, OPP, and SCP protections. With OPP and OVP and SCP, OTP isnt really needed. I know its overkill, but some people dont like rebuying the same pc components over and over. so if he goes overkill now, he has plenty of room for upgrades and more fans, oc, bigger gpu etc. its not what he needs today, but it might be want he needs in a year.

 

[dirtyferret]

. I know its overkill, but some people dont like rebuying the same pc components over and over. so if he goes overkill now, he has plenty of room for upgrades and more fans, oc, bigger gpu etc. its not what he needs today, but it might be want he needs in a year.

That is an OP decision not a you decision on what their future needs may or may not be and what parts will carry over.

As for the PSU itself, like I said it's capable but nothing special. If I was shopping for myself I would move on unless I saw it for a significant deal.

Per Aris on Toms
The 850 BQ scores a nice performance per buck ratio however with a few more bucks you can acquire a much more efficient, and more silent, Gold unit, so better pass the 80 PLUS Bronze category altogether. Bronze units are worth considering only in the lower capacity categories, according to our humble opinion, where the thermal loads are easier controlled so noise output can be kept at reasonable levels.

Against

• Efficiency
• Load regulation
• Inrush current
• Ripple suppression on the minor rails
• 3.3V transient response
• Power Ok hold-up time
• Noisy
• Could have less fixed cables
• Lacks over temperature protection (OTP)

Per Jeremy on JG for the 750w version which is same platform and practically identical parts

As budget units go, this unit is a valid choice in the current market. However, performance is a bit of a mixed bag with the voltage stability performing only average against some otherwise very nice efficiency and ripple control numbers. Right now, the biggest issue is the price, however. When I can go out and get 80 Plus Gold for a couple of dollars more, that’s a bit of a problem. That said, EVGA did do some things to make up for that. For example, throwing in enough cabling and connectors to make a 1kW unit happy. Personally, though, I would have preferred slightly better load regulation with a slightly lower price tag.

 

[nuggdoctor]

I got mine brand new still shrinkwrapped for 85$ on ebay from a guy that bought 3 and decided to only build 2 rigs. At that price show me a better psu? just gotta watch for deals. And those toms hardware reviews are between 2-4 years old. theyve improved a lot since their first gen 850BQ's launched. Better quiter fans and improved on the voltage regulation.

 

[TheoneandonlyMrK]

There's certainly no point buying a PSU today to replace one that works for FUTURE proofing.
12V PSU based systems are incoming whether we like it or not so his Next system may not be compatible with a PSU bought now.
And his works and has shown No issues.

 

[dirtyferret]

I got mine brand new still shrinkwrapped for 85$ on ebay from a guy that bought 3 and decided to only build 2 rigs. At that price show me a better psu? just gotta watch for deals.

If I was shopping for myself I would move on unless I saw it for a significant deal.

You get a smiley sticker if you need that kind of power. For $10 more on Amazon you can also grab an Antec 650w unit made from a better OEM (Seasonic vs HEC) better efficiency (gold vs bronze) better caps (Hitachi vs Teapo) and a better warranty (seven vs five years). Whether or not the extra $10 is worth it is up to the user.

 

[nuggdoctor]

There's certainly no point buying a PSU today to replace one that works for FUTURE proofing.
12V PSU based systems are incoming whether we like it or not so his Next system may not be compatible with a PSU bought now.
And his works and has shown No issues.

Nvidia recommends a 650 for the 3070 gpu's. If he is running smaller than that it would mean an upgrade is required for him. Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 PSU requirements, you need 650W for Core i5/i7 & Ryzen 5/7 systems, 750W for Core i9/Ryzen 9 systems, and 850W for HEDT/Threadripper platforms.

I run a delided 8700k @5.1Ghz on a 240mm corsair aio, and a evga ftw3 1080 ti hybrid with manual oc. 16gb corsair vengeance ddr4 2400mhz oc to 3000mhz, 5 corsair ll fans and tons of rgb. so with 2 aio's and 5 fans and the oc cpu and gpu and the fact that ill be upgrading to the power hungry 3080 ti 20gb or to a 3090 kingpin, i need the headroom the 850 gives me. not everyones in my position but why buy a psu that doesnt even meet the recommended wattage by the gpu manufacturer?

 

[dirtyferret]

Nvidia recommends a 650 for the 3070 gpu's. If he is running smaller than that it would mean an upgrade is required for him. Nvidia GeForce RTX 3070 PSU requirements, you need 650W for Core i5/i7 & Ryzen 5/7 systems, 750W for Core i9/Ryzen 9 systems, and 850W for HEDT/Threadripper platforms.

Those are for junk PSU rated at 25 or 30c, GURU3D has a more accurate assessment

Here is our power supply recommendation:

• GeForce RTX 3070 - On your average system we recommend a 550 Watt power supply unit.
• GeForce RTX 3080 - On your average system we recommend a 650 Watt power supply unit.
• GeForce RTX 3090 - On your average system we recommend a 750 Watt power supply unit.

 

[nuggdoctor]

Nvidia's RTX 3000 Power Supply Requirements Amp Up PSU Shortage Concerns

The RTX 3080 sucks a lotta juice, right during a PSU shortage

www.tomshardware.com

You also have to take into account any peripheral devices that are running off usb. Like webcams, mics, keyboards with rgb, mouse with rgb, headset or speakers, that all takes power as well.

 

[dirtyferret]

Nvidia's RTX 3000 Power Supply Requirements Amp Up PSU Shortage Concerns

The RTX 3080 sucks a lotta juice, right during a PSU shortage

www.tomshardware.com

You also have to take into account any peripheral devices that are running off usb. Like webcams, mics, keyboards with rgb, mouse with rgb, headset or speakers, that all takes power as well.

we don't doubt what Nvidia recommends, our point is there is a difference between a 650w 30c rated unit and a 650w 50c rated unit especially when placed in a PC case and temps starting going north of 40c.

 

[nuggdoctor]

My 8700k and gpu pull 372.66 watts under firestrike load by themselves. then add the rest of the internal pc components and usb attachments and youre easily at 600 watts or more. And unless its going into a tiny micro atx build the heat from the 850BQ is minimal. ive had no issues with mine and my temps are very low even under load. The 850BQ is rated to+40c Max https://gnd-tech.com/2018/08/evga-850-bq-power-supply-psu-review/

 

[Hankieroseman]

Went with overkill on AMD R7 3800X and RTX 3090 O24 because I wasn't sure about future upgrades and found a Corsair HX1200 for a good price. The 650 Watt UPS couldn't handle it so now I have an APC UPS 1500 Watt. They have been lifesavers in the past. $200 to protect a $6000 computer is a wise investment IMO.

APC BN1500M2 UPS

 

[milewski1015]

Nvidia's RTX 3000 Power Supply Requirements Amp Up PSU Shortage Concerns

The RTX 3080 sucks a lotta juice, right during a PSU shortage

www.tomshardware.com

You also have to take into account any peripheral devices that are running off usb. Like webcams, mics, keyboards with rgb, mouse with rgb, headset or speakers, that all takes power as well.

Are you linking that for the chart of recommended PSU wattage based on CPU/GPU combos? If so, it's worth noting that that's provided by Asus, who couldn't possibly have any incentive to try and get you to buy a higher wattage (and likely more expensive) PSU... /s

 

[nuggdoctor]

Went with overkill on AMD R7 3800X and RTX 3090 O24 because I wasn't sure about future upgrades and found a Corsair HX1200 for a good price. The 650 Watt UPS couldn't handle it so now I have an APC UPS 1500 Watt. They have been lifesavers in the past. $200 to protect a $6000 computer is a wise investment IMO.

APC BN1500M2 UPS

I would love the HX1200 but it isnt in the budget just yet . thats next after my gpu and ram.

 

[dirtyferret]

The 850BQ is rated to +40c MAX. so at max pulling all 850 watts through it, it will reach 40c.

...That is not what the temp rating means.

 

[nuggdoctor]

You get a smiley sticker if you need that kind of power. For $10 more on Amazon you can also grab an Antec 650w unit made from a better OEM (Seasonic vs HEC) better efficiency (gold vs bronze) better caps (Hitachi vs Teapo) and a better warranty (seven vs five years). Whether or not the extra $10 is worth it is up to the user.

Yes you get gold instead of bronze but give up 200 watts. And the difference to 99% of people between a 30 or 50c psu rating isnt even noticeable. unless you have terrible ventilation for your psu like in many mini builds.

Is the temperature at which MTBF is measured at an indication of what temperature the power supply's output rating is measured at?

Unfortunately, no. It's a tough race out there and there are a lot of guys rating their PSU's MTBF at room temperature, even if they rate their PSU at operating temperature. Fact of the matter is, MTBF can be a significantly, often exponentially, lower number when going from 25°C to 40°C. For example, one unit with an MTBF at 100,000 hours @ 25°C can have an MTBF of 20,000 hours at 40°C. That's a pretty big difference! So it's not unusual for a manufacturer to use the higher MTBF number at the lower temperature and, in most cases, not tell us at what temperature that MTBF is derived at. But even when they do tell us the MTBF temperature, this doesn't mean the PSU is rated at this. A PSU's output capability may not be seriously compromised by heat. If the PSU does 700W continuous @ 25°C and only 600W @ 40°C, the difference may not be significant enough to the manufacturer to increase their continuous wattage claims, so although they may measure MTBF at 25°C., they may very well be rating the PSU at 25, 40 or even 50°C. Unfortunately, it all comes down to marketing. It's easier to market a PSU that runs at what it's rated at 40°C then it is to market a significantly lower MTBF at the same temperature. https://forums.anandtech.com/threads/how-power-supplies-are-rated.157636/