Legality of TPU Hosting DLSS DLLs

[W1zzard]

I moved the comments from the news thread here, so you can continue the discussion

 

[Midland Dog]

isnt this illegally redistributing licensed code?

 

[btarunr]

isnt this illegally redistributing licensed code?

We're not distributing code.

 

[Aquinus]

We're not distributing code.

You're redistributing DLLs produced by nVidia. I don't see the difference. nVidia forces developers to agree to some terms before making the DLLs available.

Also, their license specifically says:

b. Except as expressly provided in this license, you may not copy, sell, rent, sublicense, transfer, distribute, modify, or create derivative works of any portion of the SDK. For clarity, you may not distribute or sublicense the SDK as a stand-alone product.

https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks/nvidia_rtx_sdks_license_12apr2021.pdf

You're also not shipping it with an application.

Case and point:

2. DISTRIBUTION REQUIREMENTS. These are the distribution requirements for you to exercise the grants above
a. An application must have material additional functionality, beyond the included portions of the SDK.

I hate to say it, but this is a blatant violation of nVidia's terms.

 

[spnidel]

You're redistributing DLLs produced by nVidia. I don't see the difference. nVidia forces developers to agree to some terms before making the DLLs available.

Also, their license specifically says:

https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks/nvidia_rtx_sdks_license_12apr2021.pdf

You're also not shipping it with an application.

Case and point:


I hate to say it, but this is a blatant violation of nVidia's terms.

you quote the license, but the DLL is not the SDK. a DLL is a binary file, SDK is a software development kit, which usually contains some sort of source code. a DLL is not user-readable and is not source code.
take this cancel-tier shit to twitter where it belongs

 

[Aquinus]

you quote the license, but the DLL is not the SDK. a DLL is a binary file, SDK is a software development kit, which usually contains some sort of source code. a DLL is not user-readable and does not contain source code.
take this cancel-tier shit to twitter where it belongs

This one DLL is part of the SDK and they say specifically the included portions of the SDK, because not all applications are going to use all of it. Also yes, it does. You can use a DLL in Visual Studio and interact with the APIs it provides. That's why nVidia provides them for developers to use after accepting this license. The only valid reason to redistribute these files is when it's shipped with an application using it and that application does something more than what the DLLs provide.

Simply put, your take is bad and you should feel bad.

 

[Soul_]

You're redistributing DLLs produced by nVidia. I don't see the difference. nVidia forces developers to agree to some terms before making the DLLs available.

Also, their license specifically says:

https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks/nvidia_rtx_sdks_license_12apr2021.pdf

You're also not shipping it with an application.

Case and point:


I hate to say it, but this is a blatant violation of nVidia's terms.

While you are absolutely right in your interpretation of this agreement. Neither this DLL nor the games they came from have this license agreement to accompany with them. This Agreement that you quote, is for those who chose specifically to use nVidia SDK, which I dont think is the case here. Furthermore, Techpowerup didn't agree to any of those terms anywhere in the process of receiving this file, because they weren't extracted from SDK.

 

[spnidel]

This one DLL is part of the SDK and they say specifically the included portions of the SDK, because not all applications are going to use all of it. Also yes, it does. You can use a DLL in Visual Studio and interact with the APIs it provides. That's why nVidia provides them to developers to use. The only valid reason to redistribute these files is when it's shipped with an application using it.

Simply put, your take is bad and you should feel bad.

I think your take is bad and you should feel bad until nvidia takes some kind of action, which they wont; now what?

 

[Aquinus]

I think your take is bad and you should feel bad until nvidia takes some kind of action, which they wont; now what?

We'll see about that, now won't we. This post was from an hour ago, it takes time for a company to take action.

While you are absolutely right in your interpretation of this agreement. Neither this DLL nor the games they came from have this license agreement to accompany with them. This Agreement that you quote, is for those who chose specifically to use nVidia SDK, which I dont think is the case here. Furthermore, Techpowerup didn't agree to any of those terms anywhere in the process of receiving this file.

Then where did they get the DLLs from? Your kind of splitting hairs and I don't think a business will see it that way.

 

[Soul_]

Then where did they get the DLLs from? Your kind of splitting hairs and I don't think a business will see it that way.

Game folders. Not splitting hair. Agreements apply where provided. They don't apply where not provided or agreed to.

This is similar TechPowerUp hosting BIOS files. The BIOS is property of nVidia provided to manufacturers under strict Agreements and Conditions. However, extracting a BIOS from a GPU that you purchase, and posting file does not in turn hold you accountable, as you did not agree to BIOS terms and conditions.

 

[Aquinus]

Game folders. Not splitting hair. Agreements apply where provided. They don't apply where not provided or agreed to.

That's because you've moved away from authorized users and into the realm of unauthorized users. So instead of being a license violation, it's a copyright violation. Once again, businesses aren't going to stop in their tracks because some armchair warrior thinks they understand how the law works. Either the DLL was copyrighted material that was copied or W1zz agreed to nVidia's terms and is in violation of the license. Either way, it doesn't sound good.

 

[Soul_]

That's because you've moved away from authorized users and into the realm of unauthorized users. So instead of being a license violation, it's a copyright violation. Once again, businesses aren't going to stop in their tracks because some armchair warrior thinks they understand how the law works.

Nope. Again not true. Authorized and Unauthorized specifically applies if unauthorized is defined as such in the agreement and universally applied to everyone who hasn't even read that agreement. Which is not true here.

This is similar TechPowerUp hosting BIOS files. The BIOS is property of nVidia provided to manufacturers under strict Agreements and Conditions. However, extracting a BIOS from a GPU that you purchase, and posting file does not in turn hold you accountable, as you did not agree to BIOS terms and conditions.

Additionally, you retorting and calling others "arm chair warrior" doesn't give you any credibility. So please keep your name calling to yourself.

 

[etayorius]

That's because you've moved away from authorized users and into the realm of unauthorized users. So instead of being a license violation, it's a copyright violation. Once again, businesses aren't going to stop in their tracks because some armchair warrior thinks they understand how the law works. Either the DLL was copyrighted material that was copied or W1zz agreed to nVidia's terms and is in violation of the license. Either way, it doesn't sound good.

You a lawyer or represent nVidia?

 

[Aquinus]

Nope. Again not true. Authorized and Unauthorized specifically applies if unauthorized is defined as such in the agreement and universally applied to everyone who hasn't even read that agreement. Which is not true here.

This is similar TechPowerUp hosting BIOS files. The BIOS is property of nVidia provided to manufacturers under strict Agreements and Conditions. However, extracting a BIOS from a GPU that you purchase, and posting file does not in turn hold you accountable, as you did not agree to BIOS terms and conditions.

That's a false equivalency. I don't recall ever agreeing to a license to download BIOS files for my motherboards or GPUs like nVidia does when you download these libraries. Once again, it's still either a copyright violation or a license violation. Also, if an application does ship these DLLs part of the license is saying that they need to ship with similar terms.

nVidia does call this out for those using the libraries.

c. You agree to distribute the SDK subject to the terms at least as protective as the terms of this license, including (without limitation) terms relating to the license grant, license restrictions and protection of NVIDIA’s intellectual property rights.

^ That's something the distributor has to enforce. All they have to say is that they shipped the game with the license to cover themselves legally.

I suspect lawyers are better at practicing law than you are.

You a lawyer or represent nVidia?

No, I know how to read a freaking license and I write software for a living and have to abide by these sort of licenses. Apparently you people don't.

Edit: ...and for what it's worth, I have notified nVidia. I'll let them figure it out. They'll either take action or they won't, but if it were my software and people were in violation of the license, I'd be pretty pissed.

 

[Soul_]

I don't recall ever agreeing to a license to download BIOS files for my motherboards or GPUs like nVidia does when you download these libraries.

Exactly. Because Manufacturers and devs who modify BIOS are the ones agreeing to those terms, not you as an end user. Please read my statement again before just trying to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Calling it false equivalency is your opinion, prove it if you think you are right.

 

[spnidel]

Edit: ...and for what it's worth, I have notified nVidia

LOL

They'll either take action or they won't

read: "I'm right, and even if I'm not I'm still right"

 

[Aquinus]

read: "I'm right, and even if I'm not I'm still right"

They might just not care, but the language of the license makes me think that they do.

 

[Aquinus]

Exactly. Because Manufacturers and devs who modify BIOS are the ones agreeing to those terms, not you as an end user. Please read my statement again before just trying to disagree for the sake of disagreeing. Calling it false equivalency is your opinion, prove it if you think you are right.

Well, then you're getting into intended purpose. There's probably a license somewhere for things like BIOS and it probably calls out that it's okay to distribute for an intended use and not modification. It's probably in the zip that comes with the BIOS or something if you don't explicitly agree to it. At least that would be my expectation. That is not what nVidia's license says though. The verbiage is pretty clear on the fact that it's their IP and they want it protected if you agree to use it and they go so far to make you agree to it and require the users of these libraries to do the same by including the license as a term of using it, so someone is always responsible.

This is why it's either a copyright violation (sp. theft,) or a license violation. If you copy it from a game, you either agree with the license and are violating it, or you're copying it against the licenses provided with the game. If the game doesn't have the license, then that business is liable for being in violation of the license since they had to get it from somewhere or for illegally copying it themselves, but an entity is always responsible when nVidia does it this way.

Look, I'm no fan of nVidia, but I don't think this is legal. I really don't.

 

[stimpy88]

Edit: ...and for what it's worth, I have notified nVidia. I'll let them figure it out. They'll either take action or they won't, but if it were my software and people were in violation of the license, I'd be pretty pissed.

Oh my god, what a jobsworth! PLEASE report me to nVidia as well, I effing hate them, and you can quote that to them, from me, with love.

But really though, what a piece of work... You have a gall to call spnidel a child, while you are the one playing the playground snitch?

What exactly do you want to happen? This site to get shut down? to make peoples lives a little more miserable? Seriously, why don't you just delete the bookmark and move on dude?

 

[GlowingPotato]

Aquinus, are you representing Nvidia or something ? wtf is wrong with you.
Its a damn unreadable/compiled DLL, that will eventually find its way into my computer.

Do you want a cookie from Nvidia ?

 

[etayorius]

That's a false equivalency. I don't recall ever agreeing to a license to download BIOS files for my motherboards or GPUs like nVidia does when you download these libraries. Once again, it's still either a copyright violation or a license violation. Also, if an application does ship these DLLs part of the license is saying that they need to ship with similar terms.

nVidia does call this out for those using the libraries.


^ That's something the distributor has to enforce. All they have to say is that they shipped the game with the license to cover themselves legally.

I suspect lawyers are better at practicing law than you are.


No, I know how to read a freaking license and I write software for a living and have to abide by these sort of licenses. Apparently you people don't.

Edit: ...and for what it's worth, I have notified nVidia. I'll let them figure it out. They'll either take action or they won't, but if it were my software and people were in violation of the license, I'd be pretty pissed.

That's exactly what i thought you would do, lol run off to them like if your life depends on it and tell them of the "horrible" things that this site is doing with their Intelectual Property.

Seriously dude, you don't belong here. You're better off hanging out on Twitter cancelling Famous people for expressing their opinion. You would fit perfectly there.

 

[john_]

You're redistributing DLLs produced by nVidia. I don't see the difference. nVidia forces developers to agree to some terms before making the DLLs available.

Also, their license specifically says:

https://developer.nvidia.com/gameworks/nvidia_rtx_sdks_license_12apr2021.pdf

You're also not shipping it with an application.

Case and point:


I hate to say it, but this is a blatant violation of nVidia's terms.

With simple modders implementing AMD's FSR in games with easy, if we consider GTA V example as an indication of what is coming, Nvidia could have sent those libraries themselves to TechPowerUp and other tech sites.

 

[Thorsthimble]

"Edit: ...and for what it's worth, I have notified nVidia. I'll let them figure it out. They'll either take action or they won't, but if it were my software and people were in violation of the license, I'd be pretty pissed."

Seriously? I have no idea if you are right or wrong. You could be absolutely, 100% correct. Frankly, I don't care one way or the other. It is what it is. But to run off and tattle to Nvidia because some other posters challenged you is just.... I don't know. Impressive, and not in a good way.

 

[_Flare]

This "problem" if it exists is between TPU and Nvidia and we speculating about it is useless. If there comes up any conflict, we are also useless.
I´ll now go on and eat my pizza.

 

[spnidel]

that feel when you're so desperate to win an internet argument you run to a corporation's lawyers