• Welcome to TechPowerUp Forums, Guest! Please check out our forum guidelines for info related to our community.

Apple Introduces M1 Pro and M1 Max: the Most Powerful Chips Apple Has Ever Built

AleksandarK

News Editor
Staff member
Joined
Aug 19, 2017
Messages
2,224 (0.91/day)
Apple today announced M1 Pro and M1 Max, the next breakthrough chips for the Mac. Scaling up M1's transformational architecture, M1 Pro offers amazing performance with industry-leading power efficiency, while M1 Max takes these capabilities to new heights. The CPU in M1 Pro and M1 Max delivers up to 70 percent faster CPU performance than M1, so tasks like compiling projects in Xcode are faster than ever. The GPU in M1 Pro is up to 2x faster than M1, while M1 Max is up to an astonishing 4x faster than M1, allowing pro users to fly through the most demanding graphics workflows.

M1 Pro and M1 Max introduce a system-on-a-chip (SoC) architecture to pro systems for the first time. The chips feature fast unified memory, industry-leading performance per watt, and incredible power efficiency, along with increased memory bandwidth and capacity. M1 Pro offers up to 200 GB/s of memory bandwidth with support for up to 32 GB of unified memory. M1 Max delivers up to 400 GB/s of memory bandwidth—2x that of M1 Pro and nearly 6x that of M1—and support for up to 64 GB of unified memory. And while the latest PC laptops top out at 16 GB of graphics memory, having this huge amount of memory enables graphics-intensive workflows previously unimaginable on a notebook. The efficient architecture of M1 Pro and M1 Max means they deliver the same level of performance whether MacBook Pro is plugged in or using the battery. M1 Pro and M1 Max also feature enhanced media engines with dedicated ProRes accelerators specifically for pro video processing. M1 Pro and M1 Max are by far the most powerful chips Apple has ever built.



"M1 has transformed our most popular systems with incredible performance, custom technologies, and industry-leading power efficiency. No one has ever applied a system-on-a-chip design to a pro system until today with M1 Pro and M1 Max," said Johny Srouji, Apple's senior vice president of Hardware Technologies. "With massive gains in CPU and GPU performance, up to six times the memory bandwidth, a new media engine with ProRes accelerators, and other advanced technologies, M1 Pro and M1 Max take Apple silicon even further, and are unlike anything else in a pro notebook."

M1 Pro: A Whole New Level of Performance and Capability
Utilizing the industry-leading 5-nanometer process technology, M1 Pro packs in 33.7 billion transistors, more than 2x the amount in M1. A new 10-core CPU, including eight high-performance cores and two high-efficiency cores, is up to 70 percent faster than M1, resulting in unbelievable pro CPU performance. Compared with the latest 8-core PC laptop chip, M1 Pro delivers up to 1.7x more CPU performance at the same power level and achieves the PC chip's peak performance using up to 70 percent less power. Even the most demanding tasks, like high-resolution photo editing, are handled with ease by M1 Pro.
M1 Pro has an up-to-16-core GPU that is up to 2x faster than M1 and up to 7x faster than the integrated graphics on the latest 8-core PC laptop chip. Compared to a powerful discrete GPU for PC notebooks, M1 Pro delivers more performance while using up to 70 percent less power. And M1 Pro can be configured with up to 32 GB of fast unified memory, with up to 200 GB/s of memory bandwidth, enabling creatives like 3D artists and game developers to do more on the go than ever before.

M1 Max: The World's Most Powerful Chip for a Pro Notebook
M1 Max features the same powerful 10-core CPU as M1 Pro and adds a massive 32-core GPU for up to 4x faster graphics performance than M1. With 57 billion transistors—70 percent more than M1 Pro and 3.5x more than M1—M1 Max is the largest chip Apple has ever built. In addition, the GPU delivers performance comparable to a high-end GPU in a compact pro PC laptop while consuming up to 40 percent less power, and performance similar to that of the highest-end GPU in the largest PC laptops while using up to 100 watts less power. This means less heat is generated, fans run quietly and less often, and battery life is amazing in the new MacBook Pro. M1 Max transforms graphics-intensive workflows, including up to 13x faster complex timeline rendering in Final Cut Pro compared to the previous-generation 13-inch MacBook Pro.

M1 Max also offers a higher-bandwidth on-chip fabric, and doubles the memory interface compared with M1 Pro for up to 400 GB/s, or nearly 6x the memory bandwidth of M1. This allows M1 Max to be configured with up to 64 GB of fast unified memory. With its unparalleled performance, M1 Max is the most powerful chip ever built for a pro notebook.

Fast, Efficient Media Engine, Now with ProRes
M1 Pro and M1 Max include an Apple-designed media engine that accelerates video processing while maximizing battery life. M1 Pro also includes dedicated acceleration for the ProRes professional video codec, allowing playback of multiple streams of high-quality 4K and 8K ProRes video while using very little power. M1 Max goes even further, delivering up to 2x faster video encoding than M1 Pro, and features two ProRes accelerators. With M1 Max, the new MacBook Pro can transcode ProRes video in Compressor up to a remarkable 10x faster compared with the previous-generation 16-inch MacBook Pro.

Advanced Technologies for a Complete Pro System
Both M1 Pro and M1 Max are loaded with advanced custom technologies that help push pro workflows to the next level:
  • A 16-core Neural Engine for on-device machine learning acceleration and improved camera performance.
  • A new display engine drives multiple external displays.
  • Additional integrated Thunderbolt 4 controllers provide even more I/O bandwidth.
  • Apple's custom image signal processor, along with the Neural Engine, uses computational video to enhance image quality for sharper video and more natural-looking skin tones on the built-in camera.
  • Best-in-class security, including Apple's latest Secure Enclave, hardware-verified secure boot, and runtime anti-exploitation technologies.A Huge Step in the Transition to Apple Silicon
  • The Mac is now one year into its two-year transition to Apple silicon, and M1 Pro and M1 Max represent another huge step forward. These are the most powerful and capable chips Apple has ever created, and together with M1, they form a family of chips that lead the industry in performance, custom technologies, and power efficiency.

macOS and Apps Unleash the Capabilities of M1 Pro and M1 Max
macOS Monterey is engineered to unleash the power of M1 Pro and M1 Max, delivering breakthrough performance, phenomenal pro capabilities, and incredible battery life. By designing Monterey for Apple silicon, the Mac wakes instantly from sleep, and the entire system is fast and incredibly responsive. Developer technologies like Metal let apps take full advantage of the new chips, and optimizations in Core ML utilize the powerful Neural Engine so machine learning models can run even faster. Pro app workload data is used to help optimize how macOS assigns multi-threaded tasks to the CPU cores for maximum performance, and advanced power management features intelligently allocate tasks between the performance and efficiency cores for both incredible speed and battery life.

The combination of macOS with M1, M1 Pro, or M1 Max also delivers industry-leading security protections, including hardware-verified secure boot, runtime anti-exploitation technologies, and fast, in-line encryption for files. All of Apple's Mac apps are optimized for—and run natively on—Apple silicon, and there are over 10,000 Universal apps and plug-ins available. Existing Mac apps that have not yet been updated to Universal will run seamlessly with Apple's Rosetta 2 technology, and users can also run iPhone and iPad apps directly on the Mac, opening a huge new universe of possibilities.

Apple's Commitment to the Environment
Today, Apple is carbon neutral for global corporate operations, and by 2030, plans to have net-zero climate impact across the entire business, which includes manufacturing supply chains and all product life cycles. This also means that every chip Apple creates, from design to manufacturing, will be 100 percent carbon neutral.

View at TechPowerUp Main Site
 
Joined
Jun 21, 2015
Messages
66 (0.02/day)
Location
KAER MUIRE
System Name Alucard
Processor M2 Pro 14"
Motherboard Apple thingy all together
Cooling no Need
Memory 32 Shared Memory
Video Card(s) 30 units
Storage 1 TB
Display(s) Acer 2k 170Hz, Benq 4k HDR
Mouse Logictech M3
Keyboard Logictech M3
Software MacOs / Ubuntu
This is getting intresting!!
 
D

Deleted member 24505

Guest
These TSMC? or?

Very interesting Apple upping the ante
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,929 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
The SoCs themselves are meh, in the sense that they're just scaled up variants of M1, nothing particularly interesting there. Those memory bandwidth claims are however rather curios, I can't see how they'd achieve that other than by using GDDR6 modules. Besides the performance implications (some of which being negative, actually) the other thing is that they're pretty power hungry and dissipate a lot of heat (probably more than the SoC itself). To put up to 64GB of that in a laptop is a questionable choice.

Also, these have gotten soo big with such a large transistor budget that it now defeats the purpose of having an SoC in the first place.

Edit: Apparently it's LPDDR5, which is still kind of stupid because that means a very wide interface, which is also power hungry.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jun 5, 2020
Messages
45 (0.03/day)
System Name Arctic Ryzen
Processor AMD 7-3800X
Motherboard MSI Tomahawk X570 WiFI
Cooling Deepcool Captain 240EX
Memory XPG Gammix 32gb 3200mhz CL16
Video Card(s) Nvidia Geforce GTX1650
Storage 4 - 4 TB Internal hd, Samsung 1tb SSD, External 5 tb (add 1 tb XPG NVME)
Display(s) ACER 32
Case Coolermaster 932 HAF
Audio Device(s) internal
Power Supply Corsair 850W
Mouse Logitech Trackman
Keyboard MS wireless
Software Home 10
Benchmark Scores [url=https://valid.x86.fr/2ypqj4][img]https://valid.x86.fr/cache/banner/2ypqj4-6.png[/img][/url]
I saw the Event. So, they took away the ports - forcing us to buy a bunch of peripherals and adapters. They took away HDMI, SD card, etc.. Now they bring them all back like if it was a big deal. I was never a fan of the touch bar, but now that am used to it I kind of like it - so now they take it away. They say they introduce cutting edge innovative products - Yes sorry I don't see where the innovation or the cutting-edge is.
 
Joined
Jul 5, 2008
Messages
336 (0.06/day)
System Name Roxy
Processor i7 5930K @ 4.5GHz (167x27 1.35V)
Motherboard X99-A/USB3.1
Cooling Barrow Infinity Mirror, EK 45x420mm, EK X-Res w 10W DDC
Memory 2x16GB Patriot Viper 3600 @3333 16-20-20-38
Video Card(s) XFX 5700 XT Thicc III Ultra
Storage Sabrent Rocket 2TB, 4TB WD Mechanical
Display(s) Acer XZ321Q (144Mhz Freesync Curved 32" 1080p)
Case Modded Cosmos-S Red, Tempered Glass Window, Full Frontal Mesh, Black interior
Audio Device(s) Soundblaster Z
Power Supply Corsair RM 850x White
Mouse Logitech G403
Keyboard CM Storm QuickFire TK
Software Windows 10 Pro
Benchmark Scores https://valid.x86.fr/e5uz5f
I need to see some cross platform benchmarks on the full fat M1 Max.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,560 (1.76/day)
M1 Max also offers a higher-bandwidth on-chip fabric, and doubles the memory interface compared with M1 Pro for up to 400 GB/s

That's pretty big. I'm curious how this memory system works.

Its big enough that I'm instinctively thinking that's a typo there. 400GB/s is huge for a CPU / iGPU. The only systems close to that are XBox / PS5 game consoles with GDDR graphics ram.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2013
Messages
5,460 (1.42/day)
Location
Everywhere all the time all at once
System Name The Little One
Processor i5-11320H @4.4GHZ
Motherboard AZW SEI
Cooling Fan w/heat pipes + side & rear vents
Memory 64GB Crucial DDR4-3200 (2x 32GB)
Video Card(s) Iris XE
Storage WD Black SN850X 4TB m.2, Seagate 2TB SSD + SN850 4TB x2 in an external enclosure
Display(s) 2x Samsung 43" & 2x 32"
Case Practically identical to a mac mini, just purrtier in slate blue, & with 3x usb ports on the front !
Audio Device(s) Yamaha ATS-1060 Bluetooth Soundbar & Subwoofer
Power Supply 65w brick
Mouse Logitech MX Master 2
Keyboard Logitech G613 mechanical wireless
Software Windows 10 pro 64 bit, with all the unnecessary background shitzu turned OFF !
Benchmark Scores PDQ
I'm all for progress & innovation & new designs etc, but the REAL question is:

How many arms, legs, kidneys, 1st born children, and banker's gold cards do we need to sacrifice in order to buy a machine with these chips in them hahahahaha ???
 
Joined
Jan 5, 2006
Messages
17,791 (2.66/day)
System Name AlderLake / Laptop
Processor Intel i7 12700K P-Cores @ 5Ghz / Intel i3 7100U
Motherboard Gigabyte Z690 Aorus Master / HP 83A3 (U3E1)
Cooling Noctua NH-U12A 2 fans + Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Extreme + 5 case fans / Fan
Memory 32GB DDR5 Corsair Dominator Platinum RGB 6000MHz CL36 / 8GB DDR4 HyperX CL13
Video Card(s) MSI RTX 2070 Super Gaming X Trio / Intel HD620
Storage Samsung 980 Pro 1TB + 970 Evo 500GB + 850 Pro 512GB + 860 Evo 1TB x2 / Samsung 256GB M.2 SSD
Display(s) 23.8" Dell S2417DG 165Hz G-Sync 1440p / 14" 1080p IPS Glossy
Case Be quiet! Silent Base 600 - Window / HP Pavilion
Audio Device(s) Panasonic SA-PMX94 / Realtek onboard + B&O speaker system / Harman Kardon Go + Play / Logitech G533
Power Supply Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 750W / Powerbrick
Mouse Logitech MX Anywhere 2 Laser wireless / Logitech M330 wireless
Keyboard RAPOO E9270P Black 5GHz wireless / HP backlit
Software Windows 11 / Windows 10
Benchmark Scores Cinebench R23 (Single Core) 1936 @ stock Cinebench R23 (Multi Core) 23006 @ stock

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

How many arms, legs, kidneys, 1st born children, and banker's gold cards do we need to sacrifice in order to buy a machine with these chips in them hahahahaha ???

Here in Europe:
The laptops can be ordered immediately and will be delivered from October 26.
The 14-inch MacBook Pro has a starting price of 2249 euros and the 16-inch model starting at 2749 euros.
 
Joined
Oct 23, 2020
Messages
671 (0.53/day)
Location
Austria
System Name nope
Processor I3 10100F
Motherboard ATM Gigabyte h410
Cooling Arctic 12 passive
Memory ATM Gskill 1x 8GB NT Series (No Heatspreader bling bling garbage, just Black DIMMS)
Video Card(s) Sapphire HD7770 and EVGA GTX 470 and Zotac GTX 960
Storage 120GB OS SSD, 240GB M2 Sata, 240GB M2 NVME, 300GB HDD, 500GB HDD
Display(s) Nec EA 241 WM
Case Coolermaster whatever
Audio Device(s) Onkyo on TV and Mi Bluetooth on Screen
Power Supply Super Flower Leadx 550W
Mouse Steelseries Rival Fnatic
Keyboard Logitech K270 Wireless
Software Deepin, BSD and 10 LTSC
Yeah most powerfull for a closed OS,
PS3 can even run GTA 5 too, with the Hardware like a PS3 u cant even run GTA 4 on 30 FPS on PC

PS3
IBM Cell 7 Cores with 256MB RAM (System use about 64MB) in real 192MB, and a Geforce with 256MB GPU RAM
 
Joined
Dec 16, 2017
Messages
2,730 (1.18/day)
Location
Buenos Aires, Argentina
System Name System V
Processor AMD Ryzen 5 3600
Motherboard Asus Prime X570-P
Cooling Cooler Master Hyper 212 // a bunch of 120 mm Xigmatek 1500 RPM fans (2 ins, 3 outs)
Memory 2x8GB Ballistix Sport LT 3200 MHz (BLS8G4D32AESCK.M8FE) (CL16-18-18-36)
Video Card(s) Gigabyte AORUS Radeon RX 580 8 GB
Storage SHFS37A240G / DT01ACA200 / WD20EZRX / MKNSSDTR256GB-3DL / LG BH16NS40 / ST10000VN0008
Display(s) LG 22MP55 IPS Display
Case NZXT Source 210
Audio Device(s) Logitech G430 Headset
Power Supply Corsair CX650M
Mouse Microsoft Trackball Optical 1.0
Keyboard HP Vectra VE keyboard (Part # D4950-63004)
Software Whatever build of Windows 11 is being served in Dev channel at the time.
Benchmark Scores Corona 1.3: 3120620 r/s Cinebench R20: 3355 FireStrike: 12490 TimeSpy: 4624
Yes sorry I don't see where the innovation or the cutting-edge is.
The cutting edge is for cutting away everything you like /joke
These TSMC? or?
TSMC. No one else has a better node. Dare I say no one else has an equal node?
Apparently it's LPDDR5,
Uh, I thought that was low power?
I need to see some cross platform benchmarks on the full fat M1 Max.
Best you might get is Linux.
How many arms, legs, kidneys, 1st born children, and banker's gold cards do we need to sacrifice in order to buy a machine with these chips in them hahahahaha ???
Yes.
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2008
Messages
511 (0.09/day)
Location
DK
System Name Main setup
Processor i9 12900K
Motherboard Gigabyte z690 Gaming X
Cooling Water
Memory Kingston 32GB 5200@cl30
Video Card(s) Asus Tuf RTS 4090
Storage Adata SX8200 PRO 1 adn 2 TB, Samsung 960EVO, Crucial MX300 750GB Limited edition
Display(s) HP "cheapass" 34" 3440x1440
Case CM H500P Mesh
Audio Device(s) Logitech G933
Power Supply Corsair RX850i
Mouse G502
Keyboard SteelSeries Apex Pro
Software W11
I'm all for progress & innovation & new designs etc, but the REAL question is:

How many arms, legs, kidneys, 1st born children, and banker's gold cards do we need to sacrifice in order to buy a machine with these chips in them hahahahaha ???
My Gues is 10 ARMs :D
 
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
1,133 (0.21/day)
Location
Republic of Texas
System Name [H]arbringer
Processor 4x 61XX ES @3.5Ghz (48cores)
Motherboard SM GL
Cooling 3x xspc rx360, rx240, 4x DT G34 snipers, D5 pump.
Memory 16x gskill DDR3 1600 cas6 2gb
Video Card(s) blah bigadv folder no gfx needed
Storage 32GB Sammy SSD
Display(s) headless
Case Xigmatek Elysium (whats left of it)
Audio Device(s) yawn
Power Supply Antec 1200w HCP
Software Ubuntu 10.10
Benchmark Scores http://valid.canardpc.com/show_oc.php?id=1780855 http://www.hwbot.org/submission/2158678 http://ww
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,929 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
Uh, I thought that was low power?
Not when paired with a huge interface. A single module can give you 50GB/s, in order to reach 400GB/s you need 8 channels, that's insane.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,560 (1.76/day)
Not when paired with a huge interface. A single module can give you 50GB/s, in order to reach 400GB/s you need 8 channels, that's insane.

That being said: replicating a "low power design" 8x makes sense as a strategy. Each individual channel is low power, but with 8x replication, it gets you the performance you need.

Of course, having 8x the channels means that you're using 8x the power. But LPDDR5 uses less power per channel, so maybe it only uses the same amount of power as 4x channel DDR4 (aka EPYC) or 6x channel DDR4 (aka Skylake-X / Server) ?
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.05/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
Yeah, lots of claims, no data to back it.
We know how the M1 performs - in terms of IPC it trounces both Intel and AMD, matching or beating their peak single core performance at 2/3-3/5 the clock speed (3.1GHz vs 4.8/5.3-ish). These more than double the core counts, and double/quadruple the memory bandwidth to feed the cores. Also, Apple has absolutely insane amounts of cache (at equally insane latencies) with their recent chips. This will be a beast, it just needs software to make use of the power. Which it likely will have (Adobe CS etc. are already native).
Not when paired with a huge interface. A single module can give you 50GB/s, in order to reach 400GB/s you need 8 channels, that's insane.
The interfaces are 256-bit (M1 Pro) and 512-bit (M1 Max). Probably a bit power hungry, sure, but they are mounted extremely close to the SoC, on the same package, so they've likely optimized for that. Plus, these are 40-60W SoCs. The memory power isn't going to be an issue.
 
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
1,872 (0.58/day)
Location
Seattle, WA
The SoCs themselves are meh, in the sense that they're just scaled up variants of M1, nothing particularly interesting there. Those memory bandwidth claims are however rather curios, I can't see how they'd achieve that other than by using GDDR6 modules. Besides the performance implications (some of which being negative, actually) the other thing is that they're pretty power hungry and dissipate a lot of heat (probably more than the SoC itself). To put up to 64GB of that in a laptop is a questionable choice.

Also, these have gotten soo big with such a large transistor budget that it now defeats the purpose of having an SoC in the first place.

Edit: Apparently it's LPDDR5, which is still kind of stupid because that means a very wide interface, which is also power hungry.

That's pretty big. I'm curious how this memory system works.

Its big enough that I'm instinctively thinking that's a typo there. 400GB/s is huge for a CPU / iGPU. The only systems close to that are XBox / PS5 game consoles with GDDR graphics ram.

256-bit and 512-bit LPDDR5 6,400Mbps for Pro and Max respectively. Package power is 50W.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
6,743 (1.68/day)
But LPDDR5 uses less power per channel, so maybe it only uses the same amount of power as 4x channel DDR4 (aka EPYC) or 6x channel DDR4 (aka Skylake-X / Server) ?
The LPDDR5 isn't the problem, it's moving data ~ that's what takes up the vast majority of EPYC/TR's power. Either Apple is only using part of the 8(or 16) channels for regular work or they're come up with something that's even more efficient than say IF o_O


Looks like 4x 128bit bus for the top end M1 Max :twitch:
 
Joined
Jan 8, 2017
Messages
8,929 (3.36/day)
System Name Good enough
Processor AMD Ryzen R9 7900 - Alphacool Eisblock XPX Aurora Edge
Motherboard ASRock B650 Pro RS
Cooling 2x 360mm NexXxoS ST30 X-Flow, 1x 360mm NexXxoS ST30, 1x 240mm NexXxoS ST30
Memory 32GB - FURY Beast RGB 5600 Mhz
Video Card(s) Sapphire RX 7900 XT - Alphacool Eisblock Aurora
Storage 1x Kingston KC3000 1TB 1x Kingston A2000 1TB, 1x Samsung 850 EVO 250GB , 1x Samsung 860 EVO 500GB
Display(s) LG UltraGear 32GN650-B + 4K Samsung TV
Case Phanteks NV7
Power Supply GPS-750C
We know how the M1 performs - in terms of IPC it trounces both Intel and AMD
"Trounce" is a bit extreme, plus, whatever advantages it has they most likely come from the huge caches and not because of the core architecture itself.
Plus, these are 40-60W SoCs. The memory power isn't going to be an issue.

That's just for the SoC ? Then the memory and package power can easily reach a good chunk of that in addition to the 40-60W. That doesn't really matter, I just wonder what's the point in having an SoC at this stage.
 
Joined
May 2, 2017
Messages
7,762 (3.05/day)
Location
Back in Norway
System Name Hotbox
Processor AMD Ryzen 7 5800X, 110/95/110, PBO +150Mhz, CO -7,-7,-20(x6),
Motherboard ASRock Phantom Gaming B550 ITX/ax
Cooling LOBO + Laing DDC 1T Plus PWM + Corsair XR5 280mm + 2x Arctic P14
Memory 32GB G.Skill FlareX 3200c14 @3800c15
Video Card(s) PowerColor Radeon 6900XT Liquid Devil Ultimate, UC@2250MHz max @~200W
Storage 2TB Adata SX8200 Pro
Display(s) Dell U2711 main, AOC 24P2C secondary
Case SSUPD Meshlicious
Audio Device(s) Optoma Nuforce μDAC 3
Power Supply Corsair SF750 Platinum
Mouse Logitech G603
Keyboard Keychron K3/Cooler Master MasterKeys Pro M w/DSA profile caps
Software Windows 10 Pro
The LPDDR5 isn't the problem, it's moving data ~ that's what takes up the vast majority of EPYC/TR's power. Either Apple is only using part of the 8(or 16) channels for regular work or they're come up with something that's even more efficient than say IF o_O


Looks like 4x 128bit bus for the top end M1 Max :twitch:
Yes, those numbers are public, 256/512-bit. I would also expect at least 32MB of last level cache for the Pro, though likely more. Also, Epyc/TR uses interconnects for core-to-core and cache-to-cache transfers, while this is monolithic, so it'll be far more efficient. Also, these chips are likely gargantuan. I would guess at least 500mm² for the Max. On 5nm, that isn't going to be cheap.
 
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Messages
729 (0.54/day)
it looks exactly like I thought it would: 4x the GPU cores requires 4x the memory interface - any GPU maker will tell you that!

But yeah, that musty be a mess of staking that many chips vertically!
 
Joined
May 30, 2015
Messages
1,872 (0.58/day)
Location
Seattle, WA
Yes, those numbers are public, 256/512-bit. I would also expect at least 32MB of last level cache for the Pro, though likely more. Also, Epyc/TR uses interconnects for core-to-core and cache-to-cache transfers, while this is monolithic, so it'll be far more efficient. Also, these chips are likely gargantuan. I would guess at least 500mm² for the Max. On 5nm, that isn't going to be cheap.

24MB L2 is the P-core LLC. LLC is not shared by P and E cores, they each have dedicated L2.

1634589569909.png
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
6,743 (1.68/day)
Epyc/TR uses interconnects for core-to-core and cache-to-cache transfers
They also massive caches which negates some of the disadvantages of having IF, besides they're designed for workstations & servers so they're kinda made for different loads.
so it'll be far more efficient.
Maybe maybe not, we can't do a truly apples to apples comparison here without a monolithic AMD APU having unified memory subsystem ~ that IMO is the biggest gamechanger!

AMD & Intel have long talked about unified memory (CPU+GPU) for nearly half a decade now, even more for AMD, & yet Apple is the one that stole the show.
 
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
2,560 (1.76/day)
The LPDDR5 isn't the problem, it's moving data ~ that's what takes up the vast majority of EPYC/TR's power. Either Apple is only using part of the 8(or 16) channels for regular work or they're come up with something that's even more efficient than say IF o_O

Infinity Fabric can't possibly be that efficient. Infinity Fabric is an external-die interface designed for absurdly high numbers of cores.

AMD probably made IF as efficient as possible given the restrictions. But Apple here only has an 8-core CPU + 16/32-core GPU to feed here. GPUs can be absurdly high-latency no problem and that CPU-count is small enough that a classic ring-bus would be fine.

Apple is benefiting from the Amdahl's law of low-core counts being easier to feed here. It will simply be more efficient to feed 8 cores on a singular die rather than 64-cores spread out across 8 different dies.
 
Joined
Apr 12, 2013
Messages
6,743 (1.68/day)
Apple is benefiting from the Amdahl's law of low-core counts being easier to feed here. It will simply be more efficient to feed 8 cores on a singular die rather than 64-cores spread out across 8 different dies.
That is true & that's why I said that a truly Apples to Apples comparison would need a monolithic AMD APU with unified memory, but even now Apple should be using some on die fabric like Ringbus/UPI for Intel or IF for AMD ~ that also has to be mightily efficient if they can fit all of this within 60W(?) without thermal throttling most of the time.
 
Top