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Improving CPU on old PC

Ronnie HF

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Nov 4, 2021
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Hi All, New here and would appreciate some support.
We are a new Community charity in Surrey, UK, and operating on an old PC that is being updated,

We would like to know if such an old PC could have the CPC processor updated?
And if yes how do we do it.

Original Spec:
  • Device HP Envy All-in-One 23-m210ea Recline
  • Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz
  • Installed RAM 8.00 GB (7.89 GB usable)
  • ST1000LM014-1EJ1164-SSHD
We are updating to
1 x Upgrade, Kingston 1TB KC600 2.5-inch SSD Upgrade Kit
2 x Upgrade, 8GB DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz 204-pin SODIMM

Sincere thanks for your time.
Ronnie

Apology: CPC should be CPU.
Dyslexia: condition that affects presentation but not content. :)
 
Hi All, New here and would appreciate some support.
We are a new Community charity in Surrey, UK, and operating on an old PC that is being updated,

We would like to know if such an old PC could have the CPC processor updated?
And if yes how do we do it.

Original Spec:
  • Device HP Envy All-in-One 23-m210ea Recline
  • Processor Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-4570T CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz
  • Installed RAM 8.00 GB (7.89 GB usable)
  • ST1000LM014-1EJ1164-SSHD
We are updating to
1 x Upgrade, Kingston 1TB KC600 2.5-inch SSD Upgrade Kit
2 x Upgrade, 8GB DDR3 PC3-12800 1600MHz 204-pin SODIMM

Sincere thanks for your time.
Ronnie

Apology: CPC should be CPU.
Dyslexia: condition that affects presentation but not content. :)
you'll find the specs HERE that tell the motherboard is HERE.
Capture.PNG
 
4670k. 4690, 4770, 4790k would probably work.

Though the 47 series being i7 CPUs, i dont know if the cooling can handle it. so i would go as far as 4670 or 4690 depending on your overall budget and how much you can get the CPUs for.
 
You didn't tell us what this computer will be used for. Since this is a community charity, can we assume it will be used for "office" tasks like writing newsletters, emails, and such? If so, I don't see any real advantage to upgrading the CPU. Any performance gains for those type tasks will be marginal, at best. That questions the economical feasibility of upgrading an "old" PC - especially by a charity, which I assume, needs to make every penny stretch as far as it can go.

You definitely will get a significant boost and the most bang for your money by increasing your RAM. I would definitely recommend doing that. And replacing the HD (even a SSHD) with a SSD will also yield some noticeable performance gains on some tasks.

But not so much by upgrading the CPU.

Plus, while still a relatively slow hard drive - as hard drives go, being a SSHD puts it in a performance class already above most conventional notebook hard drives. That's a good thing. But with that in mind, not sure replacing that SSHD on a charity office machine is the wisest use of your money. If you have already cleaned up the current HD and freed up all the disk space that you can by purging the drive of unneeded programs and files, and you still need more disk space, then fine. I say go with a SSD. But if you don't need the extra disk space, then perhaps buying an external drive that can be used as a backup device to backup the data on the computer's drive might be a wiser use of the funds.
 
you'll find the specs HERE that tell the motherboard is HERE.
View attachment 223647
Sincere thanks we appreciate your support. Ronnie

You didn't tell us what this computer will be used for. Since this is a community charity, can we assume it will be used for "office" tasks like writing newsletters, emails, and such? If so, I don't see any real advantage to upgrading the CPU. Any performance gains for those type tasks will be marginal, at best. That questions the economical feasibility of upgrading an "old" PC - especially by a charity, which I assume, needs to make every penny stretch as far as it can go.

You definitely will get a significant boost and the most bang for your money by increasing your RAM. I would definitely recommend doing that. And replacing the HD (even a SSHD) with a SSD will also yield some noticeable performance gains on some tasks.

But not so much by upgrading the CPU.

Plus, while still a relatively slow hard drive - as hard drives go, being a SSHD puts it in a performance class already above most conventional notebook hard drives. That's a good thing. But with that in mind, not sure replacing that SSHD on a charity office machine is the wisest use of your money. If you have already cleaned up the current HD and freed up all the disk space that you can by purging the drive of unneeded programs and files, and you still need more disk space, then fine. I say go with a SSD. But if you don't need the extra disk space, then perhaps buying an external drive that can be used as a backup device to backup the data on the computer's drive might be a wiser use of the funds.
Again sincere thanks we appreciate your support. Ronnie
PS. The PC will be holding a lot of data, drawings, images etc. Already the hard drive runs constantly at 100% as shown on task manager, continually locks up. We are just looking for something that will last a few more years. Not sure whether it will work for setup on a CNC machine but we don't need that just now. Eventually, we hope to have a decent PC donated.
 
If the hard drive is running at 100%, that means something else is going on. It does not mean you need a new drive.
 
Not sure you really need more than 8GB RAM

I went to high school in Surrey.
 
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I still run my old 4790S (sold the 4790k) on an ASUS maximus extreme with 32gb of 3200mhz Kingston Beast ddr3 and my old V and a 1660Ti. She's like my old faithful.
Its sat in a Thermaltake Level 10 case with a Thermaltake Toughpower 1000w. 7years and still runs like a dream.
The CPU struggles with streaming but anything less intensive like just running games with no background apps and it runs perfectly.
 
I've seen Windows chew through 100% of several older mechanical drives at idle in some cases. Not sure, but it's possible this all in one has a 2.5in laptop HDD which would be rather slow.

An i5 4570t would be very good for office tasks and honestly 8gb should be plenty too.

I would install an ssd.

For a CPU upgrade, a higher tdp k CPU would definitely be a bad idea in an all in one with limited cooling and power.
 
Now that you mention "drawing" and "CNC", I'm intrigued. In what exact capacity the PC is used?

If it's used to run the CNC, depends on the machine I don't think upgrading will bring any improvement at all.

If it's used as sort of "middleman" converting drawings to CNC files then most likely the RAM upgrade is okay.

If it's used as drafting/drawing with CAD/CAM/CAE then you most likely will be better with new PC with decent GPU. Most of those programs are heavy. Consult your software requirement.
 
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This doesn't detract from the fact that an SSD and fresh install is the single biggest improvement you can do to an old PC
Except that is not true. Way back in the day when operating systems were installed from floppy or optical disks, a fresh install did typically improve performance. But today, with the OS constantly being updated through WU, it is not. In fact, it is typically a cop-out to suggest a fresh install as part of a repair action, unless all other options have been exhausted first.

A fresh install should always be a last resort option for many reasons. (1) It often does not fix the problem. (2) It destroys any evidence of the problem. (3) It sets you back months or even years in critical security updates. (4) Unless backups are made, you lose your installed programs and personal files. (5) Quite often, the problem is a bad driver which is then re-installed after the fresh install, putting you right back in the same leaky boat. And (6) even if it fixes the problem, you don't learn the cause in order to prevent/avoid recurrence of the problem.

So it is always best to clean the drive(s) of clutter and attempt normal repair actions, first - to include ensuring the OS is current. Then if none of that helps, consider a OS repair. If still no good, then a fresh install.

The biggest improvement you can do to an old PC is, by far - depending on your starting point - adding more RAM. A SSD is certainly beneficial, but only affects tasks that require disk access. Once your OS and program are loaded into RAM, the drive's performance is inconsequential - especially with lots of RAM installed.

Not sure you really need more than 8GB RAM
In general, I would agree with you on this, Andy. 8GB for most users is more than enough and often considered the sweet spot. But we are not talking generalities. In the OP's specific scenario, adding RAM is still, IMO, the best use of their money.

Why?

There already is a SSHD in there for better than average disk performance. SSHDs typically have larger buffers than conventional HDs, and of course, being solid state, that buffer is much faster than conventional buffer memory.

Adding RAM is less expensive than upgrading the CPU and will give that existing CPU a much bigger operating environment to crunch data in. That's a good thing. And it allows the CPU to keep much more, higher priority data in memory too. That's a very good thing too.

Also, with more, higher priority data already in RAM, that means the CPU and OS will not need to shuffle as much data, near as often, into and out of the PF on the slow (by comparison) drive. We must remember, the CPU and RAM still operate at much higher speeds than even a fast SSD.

All the suggestions will help performance. But we must not lose sight of the fact this computer belongs to and is being used by a charity organization. So what is the best use of that money?

I have to go back to my original concerns in my first reply above - is it even economically feasible (or wise?) to upgrade this "old" computer at all? Especially for a charity computer to be used for office type tasks? I not certain it is.
 
I'd strongly disagree. Reinstallation is usually the better option. It almost always solves the problem, and usually just takes less time than tracking down the problem. Fresh installation of all drivers fresh will usually fix any driver problems without having to spend hours or days trying to track down which driver is the culprit and reinstall it then. And if you don't completely eradicate the problem, it could reoccur. Complete wipe and reinstall will get rid of any problematic remnants.

Sshdds are barely faster than mechanical drives in most cases. Some times they can be noticably faster, but In practice usually much slower than an SSD for boot and load times.
 
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You can disagree if you want. I stand by my opinion based on 45+ years as a tech (see the link in my sig to see if I might have a little clue here).

I note it is because you said the following that I disagree, (my bold underline added),

usually the better option
almost always solves
usually just takes less time
usually fix any driver problems

And more importantly,
Complete wipe and reinstall will get rid of any problematic remnants.
That is just wrong - if true, you would not have needed to say "usually" and "almost always".

And of course, you totally ignored the points about having to reinstall all your downloaded and installed programs, recovering (if possible) all your personal data, setting up all your personalizations and more. You either assume all users have all that backed up, or you would just run roughshod over all that, and totally obliterate it - then having to start from scratch again.

If that is acceptable to the user, then fine. But most users are not as readily willing to lose all that without trying to repair the computer first.

"IF" the goal is to return a mission critical system back on-line and into operation as quickly as possible, then the best solution is to reimage back to the last "known good" image, using a backup image recently made. But, sadly, most users don't have that robust a backup plan, and many don't have any backup copies at all.

But if the goal is to "troubleshoot" and fix the problem, learn what the problem is, and learn how to prevent recurrence by teaching yourself and/or the user how to prevent or avoid it next time, then the old "format and reinstall" is not for you.
 
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You absolutely shouldn't bother upgrading the CPU unless you happen to have a rather rare i7-47xxT lying around doing nothing better. This isn't a PC that is good for CPU intensive jobs any more and doubling the CPU cores will not really change that dramatically. The existing i5 is fine for general web/media/office tasks still.

The RAM upgrade and switching from SSHD (basically still just a slow old mechanical drive) to the KC600 are the two best upgrades you can do - assuming you do a fresh intstall of Windows to that KC600.

If the PC isn't fast enough after that, then don't try and make it any faster, just find a use for it as-is or sell it and invest in a PC with a faster, newer CPU.
 
I like hybrid drives (fusion drives for a Mac), perhaps because they are clever (and cheaper); I also had an old solid state drive just go dead on me without warning.
 
You can disagree if you want. I stand by my opinion based on 45+ years as a tech (see the link in my sig to see if I might have a little clue here).

I note it is because you said the following that I disagree, (my bold underline added),



And more importantly,

That is just wrong - if true, you would not have needed to say "usually" and "almost always".

And of course, you totally ignored the points about having to reinstall all your downloaded and installed programs, recovering (if possible) all your personal data, setting up all your personalizations and more. You either assume all users have all that backed up, or you would just run roughshod over all that, and totally obliterate it - then having to start from scratch again.

If that is acceptable to the user, then fine. But most users are not as readily willing to lose all that without trying to repair the computer first.

"IF" the goal is to return a mission critical system back on-line and into operation as quickly as possible, then the best solution is to reimage back to the last "known good" image, using a backup image recently made. But, sadly, most users don't have that robust a backup plan, and many don't have any backup copies at all.

But if the goal is to "troubleshoot" and fix the problem, learn what the problem is, and learn how to prevent recurrence by teaching yourself and/or the user how to prevent or avoid it next time, then the old "format and reinstall" is not for you.
I have to share my thoughts here. A fresh install does not fix the issue if it is software based. Especially if you are using the same programs for your work. A lot of the times required windows updates and/or software updates & drivers will manifest the same issue again once reinstalled. It is best to ID the problem and try to fix it without losing all of your data. Now if the drive is bad sure replace it, but backing up data then just dumping it onto a new SSD is a lot of work for no reason.

//BREAK//

It was previously mentioned that the drive shows 100% utilization in task manager. Have you taken note of what applications or background processes are utilizing the drive the most?
 
Especially if you are using the same programs for your work.
Or play! ;)

I like hybrid drives (fusion drives for a Mac), perhaps because they are clever (and cheaper); I also had an old solid state drive just go dead on me without warning.
I like hybrid drives too. But I don't see what's so clever about them. The mechanics are the same as conventional drives. So is the interface. The only real difference is the type of memory device used for the buffer. They are cheaper than SSDs, but a little more expensive than conventional hard drives.

And while hard drives do often give warning of impending failure, they can suddenly fail too. I would not base my future purchase decision on one old SSD failing. All electronics will fail - eventually - if not retired sooner.

If the budget didn't allow for SSD, I would go for a hybrid or SSHD, if possible. But if I had the luxury of time, I would wait until I could build up the budget and get an SSD.
 
Backup data elsewhere. onedrive, other drive, etc. Messing with drivers MIGHT work, but it might not and then you have to reinstall Windows anyhow. Reinstalling applications is nothing compared to the stress of troubleshooting driver problems, which can take many hours, and may result in Windows needing to be reinstalled anyhow.

It likely will be worth spending a little time on, but if it can't be fixed in under an hour, it's just a better idea to reinstall.

Reinstalling has a better chance at fixing the problem than messing with device manager etc in the first place.
 
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The SSD will indeed help, hybrids are... weird, the cache is supposed to hold files that are often used but as far as I remember if you constantly power cycle the computer then the windows startup files will be cached and not the rest, they never became hugely popular because for most users there weren't any visible improvements over a normal mechanical drive.
I wouldn't get a Kingston, rather go for an Intel, Crucial or Samsung, but that's me not trusting Kingston drives.

CPU... if it's used for regular office tasks an i7 wouldn't make much of a difference, more memory helps only if the computer has to run multiple programs at once or ridiculously big excel spreadsheets
 
Reinstalling has a better chance at fixing the problem than messing with device manager etc.
Nope. Just not true. Smart precision targeting is almost always better, faster, and with less, if any collateral damage. Carpet bombing with a fresh reinstall is the lazy way out with massive amounts of time consuming collateral damage that must be rebuilt/restored.

Again, "IF" a full and current backup is available, and getting the system back up ASAP is the top priority, your way may be better. But what have you learned in the process? Nothing. Is that troubleshooting? Nope. Does it make one a better technician or computer repair person? It doesn't make that person a technician or repair person at all!

it's just a better idea to reinstall.
And definitely not true. It may be the "easy way out" for you and others who don't wish to learn how to fix problems. But again, if the idea is to learn, you have to troubleshoot and repair.
Backup data elsewhere. onedrive, other drive, etc
LOL Right. Because everyone not only does this, they do it frequently AND they know how to restore from it. :rolleyes:

Don't get me wrong - if one has no desire to learn how to repair computers - and there's no shame in that - then your way is just fine. But if a reinstall works, they sure better not feel they know how to "fix" a broken computer.

hybrids are... weird, the cache is supposed to hold files that are often used but as far as I remember if you constantly power cycle the computer then the windows startup files will be cached and not the rest,
Umm, sorry but you are confusing different caches. The buffer integrated into drives (regardless if solid state or standard RAM memory modules) is not designed or intended to retain data during power cycles. It never has been that way.

The buffer on drives is there primarily for writes or saving data. Because writing to drives is a slow process (compared to transferring data between system RAM and the CPU), the buffer integrated on drives "buffers" the data in there so the OS can dump data to be written into the buffer then quickly move on to other tasks. Then that data is written to the drive.

If you are familiar with satellite radio or a DVR, it is the same process. Data is first streamed into the buffer so there is a few seconds of the song in the buffer. In this way, if you go under a bridge, the song does not cut out. Instead the buffer keeps it going while the satellite signal is temporarily blocked. Then when you come out from under the bridge, the buffer fills up again.

DDR4 system RAM mounted on the motherboard can retain data when in stand by mode for faster wake times. That data is maintained by the +5Vsb standby voltage. But if you do a true power cycle (where you unplug the computer from the wall, or flip the PSU's master power switch) that data will be lost.

But again, that DDR4 system RAM is totally different than the buffer memory integrated into drives.
 
The SSD will indeed help, hybrids are... weird, the cache is supposed to hold files that are often used but as far as I remember if you constantly power cycle the computer then the windows startup files will be cached and not the rest

That's how I understand it and why I said 'clever', except I think it is file system agnostic and goes by sectors and so goes beyond the OS; 8 GB flash is way more than the OS.

An 8 GB cache would be way too large; 256 MB is about as big as hard drive cache gets.
 
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8 GB flash is way more than the OS.
Ummm, so what? That's actually a good thing.

An 8 GB cache would be way too large
Nonsense!

First, apologies to @caroline.v - you were right and I was wrong.

Second, come on Andy! Some common sense and simple reasoning has to come into play here. What possible harm could come from having a large buffer? Why would any SSHD maker go through the added expense of integrating that large of a buffer on their drives if it was detrimental to the drive's performance? They wouldn't! It would increase production costs, raise the price consumers must pay for the product, and it would bring bad publicity.

Having 8GB means the drive's buffer (or cache or whatever you want to call it) can hold lots of data normally stored on the drive's disks or platters in the much faster buffer. The fact 8GB is more than the OS is immaterial. The OS is already loaded into system RAM.

Operating systems and the programs running within them, are constantly handing off and retrieving data from the drives. Being able to much more quickly hand off or fetch data from a much faster and larger buffer is what having a SSHD is all about.

Now to clarify my comment about retaining power, and to apologize again to @caroline.v as I was wrong. Depending on the SSHD some will retain data when power is lost. But that is more by happenstance and not by intentional design.

As hard drives, particularly those used in notebooks (battery operated devices) turned "green" - that is, as they were being designed to save power and increase battery run times, they stop spinning when the system goes idle. Having all that priority data in the NAND flash cache means the notebook and OS can quickly retrieve needed data without having to wait for the drive to spin up again. That's a big deal and advantage. And it is just another reason why 8GB makes total sense here.
 
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