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What the *** is going on with 12th gen mobos?

D

dabyd64

Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Messages
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C'mon, even with the pandemic and all that, these prices are crazy.

I have the impression that 30yr-old YouTube "kids" (They call themselves streamers) have also contributed with their stupid hype, 32 core for 1% fps gain and such, so they will pay anything just to get it and companies know that.

They have rised prices 200%, no problem, everything was sold in minutes either for gaming or mining.

I still have my Gigabyte GA-Z77x-UD5H + 3770K.

The 3770K was 300eur back in the day, so let's say 370eur for the 12700K is ok-ish.
It was just in time, as AMD also started to fly high when the 5800 came out (580eur wtf)

But intel mobos are out of control... Let's compare what you had then vs what you get now:

1644980036639.png


Cost: 150eur in 2012.
- Wifi
- Dual BIOS
- Led diagnostic display
- In-board power/reset/CMOS switches
- Plenty of cooling, heatpipe for chipset and vrm.
- Dual Gbit Ethernet
- 10+ SATAs
- Lots, lots of protection ICs.

Something similar now costs 500+ eur.
For the same cost, you get this sh** mobo, so naked and pathetic that they had to paint It so it looked better:

1644980006231.png

- Nothing of the above.
- Like a 2005 cheap asrock with some paint.
- Cheapo+++ heatsinks
- Not even a 5-cent CMOS reset switch!

Crappy H610 mobo starts at 90eur!

Long live to my 3770K, I'm not taking this train!:kookoo:
 
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That is literally the worst Alder Lake motherboard you can buy. Not second worst, or third worst, that particular board is out of 200+ boards the worst of then all.

So not very representative. It's fundamentally an H610 board with a Z690 chip on it, and nobody should buy it because it's so terrible.

You could get far better boards for the money, and 10 x SATA isn't a thing now since we mostly use PCIE SSDs....


It's a new platform, prices are falling.
 
That's where balanced builds come into play more and more.

Cheap combo ...

https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/p/90853348
MSI PRO B660M-A DDR4 €130,19

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/PRO-B660M-A-DDR4

https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/p/90853511
Intel Core i5-12400F €157,97

Mid range combo ...

MSI MAG B660M Mortar DDR4 DDR4 mATX Mainboard Sockel 1700 M.2/USB3.2 Buy

MSI MAG B660M Mortar DDR4 DDR4 mATX Mainboard Sockel 1700 M.2/USB3.2 Buy | online at computeruniverse online Shop | M-ATX, Sockel 1700
www.computeruniverse.net www.computeruniverse.net
MSI MAG B660M Mortar DDR4 €150,42

www.msi.com

MAG B660M MORTAR DDR4

Powered by Intel 12th Gen Core processors, the MSI MAG B660M MORTAR DDR4 is hardened with performance essential specifications to outlast enemies. Tuned for better performance by Core boost, Memory Boost, Premium Thermal Solution, M.2 Shield Frozr,
www.msi.com www.msi.com

https://www.computeruniverse.net/en/p/90853515
Intel Core i7-12700F €291,15
 
still doesnt absolve of the fact that LGA1700 is wasting a lot of money on features that aren't exactly useful for the vast majority (PCIe 5.0/4.0, amongst others)
it kinda does sour the otherwise excellent ADL quite a bit when you have to throw out $150+ for a board that doesnt suck ass™ when previously you could've gotten something decent-ish at like, half the price
 
Selaya said:
still doesnt absolve of the fact that LGA1700 is wasting a lot of money on features that aren't exactly useful for the vast majority (PCIe 5.0/4.0, amongst others)
it kinda does sour the otherwise excellent ADL quite a bit when you have to throw out $150+ for a board that doesnt suck ass™ when previously you could've gotten something decent-ish at like, half the price
Click to expand...

Both entry-level GPUs (3050, 6500 XT) are bottlenecked by PCIE 3.0

There are some reasonable boards for $130, e.g., the MSI Pro B660m-A

I don't believe $75 gets you a nice B560 board at all.... AMD is cheaper, but I suppose that's part of the deal when you buy Intel.
 
IMHO both Intel and AMD are guilty here, but honestly in the end it all comes down to how much mobo manufacturers are willing to charge for their boards and whether end users actually purchase them.
 
Early adopter's tax I guess.

At least it balances out with CPU prices being very competitive.

I don't really regret my purchase, even though mobo was over double vs what I spent last time (Gigabyte B660M Gaming + i3 12100F) and it's not exactly shining connectivity-wise either.

If I wanted to go AMD, I'd prob pay double for similar performance with how absurd Ryzen prices are now where I am.

- Cheapo+++ heatsinks
Click to expand...
At least it's got ANY lol. Many lower H610 mobos have zero, maybe they can handle turbo on i3 I suppose, for i5 that'd be more doubtful.
 
thelawnet said:
Both entry-level GPUs (3050, 6500 XT) are bottlenecked by PCIE 3.0

There are some reasonable boards for $130, e.g., the MSI Pro B660m-A

I don't believe $75 gets you a nice B560 board at all.... AMD is cheaper, but I suppose that's part of the deal when you buy Intel.
Click to expand...
not referring to the PEG slot (that should be 4.0 these days), but 4.0 over the PCH? for the m.2?
these are all things that add unnecessary costs that are not useful to a consumer of the bottom-of-the-barrel

EDIT: apparently im an idiot, just checked out the h610 specs this is already very barebones
beats me why these boards are so expensive then, tbh
 
Selaya said:
not referring to the PEG slot (that should be 4.0 these days), but 4.0 over the PCH? for the m.2?
these are all things that add unnecessary costs that are not useful to a consumer of the bottom-of-the-barrel

EDIT: apparently im an idiot, just checked out the h610 specs this is already very barebones
beats me why these boards are so expensive then, tbh
Click to expand...
I'm seeing Asrock H610M HDV/M.2 at $95 vs. $80 for the H510M HDV/M.2.
I just bought a Pro RS H610M for $135 vs. $115 for the H510M Pro 4

A premium to be sure, but the old boards are obsolete to some degree, so you'd expect lower pricing....

I believe some distributors and manufacturers in some markets are trying to scalp the market, because they think they can get away with it, but as supply improves they will surely cut their prices.
 
thelawnet said:
I'm seeing Asrock H610M HDV/M.2 at $95 vs. $80 for the H510M HDV/M.2.
I just bought a Pro RS H610M for $135 vs. $115 for the H510M Pro 4

A premium to be sure, but the old boards are obsolete to some degree, so you'd expect lower pricing....

I believe some distributors and manufacturers in some markets are trying to scalp the market, because they think they can get away with it, but as supply improves they will surely cut their prices.
Click to expand...

Funny, I looked H610M HDV/M.2 for fun just before your post, and I'm genuinely surprised by how even their most cut-down board has everything I need in the event I got a 12600K to run at stock.

Maaaaaybe besides not having enough rear USB ports and being capped at DDR4-3200.
 
dabyd64 said:
I still have my Gigabyte GA-Z77x-UD5H + 3770K.

The 3770K was 300eur back in the day,
MB Cost: 150eur in 2012.
- Wifi , Dual BIOS, - Led diagnostic display
- In-board power/reset/CMOS switches
- Plenty of cooling, heatpipe for chipset and vrm.
- Dual Gbit Ethernet , 10+ SATAs
- Lots, lots of protection ICs.

Something similar now costs 500+ eur. Nothing of the above, cheap asrock with some paint.
- Cheapo+++ heatsinks - Not even a 5-cent CMOS reset switch!
Crappy H610 mobo starts at 90eur!

Long live to my 3770K, I'm not taking this train!:kookoo:
Click to expand...

You feel puzzled and unhappy, because you are an excellent observer.
I will add in this crime scene for further evaluation and the unneeded killing of the classic PCI interface (Slot).
This month I did proceed upgrading from ASUS P45 platform to INTEL Gigabyte GA-Z87X-UD5H along 4Gen Haswell i7-4770.
( Prices at 2013 MB=200E CPU= 300+ Euro, DDR3 2400 CL11= 200E)
Conclusion this is the Ferrari high Tier Super sport car of computing world of 2013.

When I was investigating to upgrade by the use of 2022 components, I could not tolerate or accept, that I will buy also an fresh empty motherboard, and that I would had also to accept Microsoft Win10 or higher as my primary operating system.
I will never become an Sponsor of Industry childish decisions.
I am the decision maker, I am the guardian of my own happiness, I am not a donkey demonstrating bling trust at INTEL and Microsoft marketing planing.
 
Selaya said:
still doesnt absolve of the fact that LGA1700 is wasting a lot of money on features that aren't exactly useful for the vast majority (PCIe 5.0/4.0, amongst others)
it kinda does sour the otherwise excellent ADL quite a bit when you have to throw out $150+ for a board that doesnt suck ass™ when previously you could've gotten something decent-ish at like, half the price
Click to expand...
I take it you didn't read my write-up about why LGA-1700 boards are expensive?
It's not PCIe 5.0 or 4.0 that are making them so much more expensive.
www.techpowerup.com

Intel Z690 Motherboard Costs Explained

There has been a lot of discourse about the cost of Z690 motherboards, so we decided to ask around to find out what has changed compared to the previous generation of Intel motherboards. There are obviously several factors that have come together to create something like the perfect storm, as...
www.techpowerup.com www.techpowerup.com

Chomiq said:
IMHO both Intel and AMD are guilty here, but honestly in the end it all comes down to how much mobo manufacturers are willing to charge for their boards and whether end users actually purchase them.
Click to expand...
Guilty of what? The Z690 chipset is $1 more than the Z590 chipset.
 
im aware of it, but even saving like 5 cents on dropping PCIe 5.0 support's worth it tbh since it is literally useless rn and will - most likely - remain for the entirety of ADL's useful lifespan.
 
No B660, the 12700F costs the same as the KF here, so no discussion about that.

I don't really need any fancy features, let alone the stupid RGB stuff inflating the overall cost, neither I'm getting ddr5.
My intention was to use the 12700K@5GHz 24/7, 32GB DDR4 3600, 1TB WD black SSD, and keep my RTX2060 (I barely play games).

It might be the worst z690 mobo, but it should do the job, anyways it already costs 170eur!

You get absolute crap for what otherwise would be a mid-premium mobo years ago.
The most expensive ones were 300-350, now a 500 one is just ok-ish.

I hope they come back to earth when ryzen 7000 comes out :laugh:
 
IDK what they are charging in Europe (edit: 186 euros https://www.amazon.de/dp/B09KC743SB), but you can get a Gigabyte Z690 UD for $200, it has 16 x 60A SPS, 10 USB ports, 3x16 ports (one PCIE 5.0), 2 x1, 3 M.2s at PCIE 4.0x4, and 6 SATA headers.

I think it is plenty of motherboard.
 
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dabyd64 said:
I hope they come back to earth when ryzen 7000 comes out :laugh:
Click to expand...
Do not sleep on it.
I am planing now getting and a second GA-Z87X-UD5H as backup.
 
you can get a z690 Pro A for 200€ with a VRM that beats high end extreme overclocking boards from a few generations ago with ease, you have a lot more PCB layers, PCIe Gen 5, a large chipset with lots of connectivity.
M.2, and inflation.
production cost and development time/cost of an architecture like alder lake is probably a lot higher than some sandybridge shrinks too.

300€ in 2012 is now ~345€ and you get double the cores + another 4 E Cores.
 
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kiriakost said:
Do not sleep on it.
I am planing now getting and a second GA-Z87X-UD5H as backup.
Click to expand...
I believe sleep on it means to rethink your decision. But yeah do not count on any price drops.

150-200 euro it is here to stay, inflation.

MSi ProA is satisfactory, don't care about onboard whistles, dual lans and led.

But Im planning on waiting for Meteor lake MBD or even the 17770K in 2025 with 64 E cores.

1700 is probably a short lived piece of ewaste and locked to 12-13 gen only just like Z77 +2700/3770k.
 
Gigabyte -- nuff said.

Wait till you try to RMA it.
 
phanbuey said:
Gigabyte -- nuff said.

Wait till you try to RMA it.
Click to expand...
The "funny" part is that they know they're super slow.
Apparently it's meant to be addressed, but might take time.
And yes, I have inside sources.
 
phanbuey said:
Gigabyte -- nuff said.

Wait till you try to RMA it.
Click to expand...
At my side of the pond, within EU they are warehouses, at Netherlands or Germany, ready to serve RMA at acceptable time frame.
MSI, ASUS, Seasonic, they are at the safe side, for the year 2022.
 
Intel should enforce P1=P2 to 150w on low end MBs. I Can easily blow up the VRMs on many of these budget boards just from heavy workloads. Not even prime95.

Just my 2cents. Buy a MB based on your CPU Power needs, not based on price.
 
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