Is this Sound card Better than mine?

[LabRat 891]

(without reading the thread...)
I've tried 3x diff late model X-fi cards, including an opamp-upgraded unit. The basic Xonars beat them in audio quality. (Haven't tried the HT Omega I bought yet, though)
I settled on the Xonar Essence STX; best sounding of the 5 or 6 sound cards I tried out.

While I haven't investigated the newest offerings; in my research, generally the older sound cards are 'better, at their base'. New cards are 'fine' but seem loaded up with 'software effects' to supply their 'features', rather than just being a great sounding audio card to begin with.

 

[caroline!]

Hi there.
I'm using a Z SE right now, but not because I'm an audiophile or anything though, but because my onboard has a noise issue that won't go away, after trying everything I can only diagnose it as broken, perhaps the chip's damaged, or the outputs.

Anyway, the card works great, sound is clear and has no noise. I'm using the analogue wires, my speakers have digital but the cable I have isn't long enough, plus analogue just works so why bother. I listen to music as well and it sounds... fine, I suppose. Again, I'm no audiophile so I'm mainly playing 128kbps mp3 files converted from Youtube or downloaded through shady mp3 websites.

 

[sLowEnd]

Hi there.
I'm using a Z SE right now, but not because I'm an audiophile or anything though, but because my onboard has a noise issue that won't go away, after trying everything I can only diagnose it as broken, perhaps the chip's damaged, or the outputs.

Anyway, the card works great, sound is clear and has no noise. I'm using the analogue wires, my speakers have digital but the cable I have isn't long enough, plus analogue just works so why bother. I listen to music as well and it sounds... fine, I suppose. Again, I'm no audiophile so I'm mainly playing 128kbps mp3 files converted from Youtube or downloaded through shady mp3 websites.

My mobo's onboard audio outputs have a slight background hiss, but I don't experience any hiss when I use the output from my graphics card to my monitor instead.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I simply love that my audio is being processed and enhanced.

Ps. I love punchy sounds

If the original audio was recorded as intended and produced by the artist had the exact same "punchy sounds" then that is perfectly fine. Using enhancement tools to "equalize" and/or compensate for speaker deficiencies, or degradation caused by environment (room) acoustics, that is perfectly fine too.

But processing, enhancing and punching up the original recording in ways that alters the sound qualities and characteristics of what the artist intended, produced and recorded, that is not "audiophile" reproduction and not fine - "IF" audiophile quality audio reproduction is your goal.

In fact, altering the original recording in ways not intended by the original artist would even be considered "distortion". In its basic definition, "distortion" is when the output is different than the input - other than precise amplification or attenuation of the entire waveform, without adding or deleting anything from that waveform. Distortion is NOT just introduced harmonic anomalies, clipping, clamping, crossover, "noise", etc.

Now of course, some distortion is good. For example, music synthesizers (most notably, the Moog synthesizer) and electric guitars use distortion all the time to achieve a desired effect. But again, that is what the artist intended.

I am just saying, people (often with the help of marketing weenies ) too often misunderstand, then twist (distort!) the definition of what it means to an "audiophile", or to describe "audiophile quality", audio reproduction devices.

Is that being nitpicky? Of course! Audiophiles are some of the most nitpicky people in the world - and damn proud of it!

 

[8tyone]

Yes, sorry to add my speaker model: It is Altec Lansing BXR1121 2W output per satellite and 7W output for subwoofer.

Altec Lansing BXR1121 2.1 Stereo Speaker System - 15W

Buy Altec Lansing BXR1121 2.1 Stereo Speaker System - 15W Review Altec Lansing BXR1121

www.bhphotovideo.com

I would now say definitely get a new speaker if you are up for it.
If you are good with crafts, you could diy a cheap pair (overnight sensation bookshelf, overnight sensation mtm or tmm or maybe even a frugel-horn mk3 + maybe an lm3886 kit or tpa 3116 kit).

 

[Operandi]

I would now say definitely get a new speaker if you are up for it.
If you are good with crafts, you could diy a cheap pair (overnight sensation bookshelf, overnight sensation mtm or tmm or maybe even a frugel-horn mk3 + maybe an lm3886 kit or tpa 3116 kit).

Lol, while that would be a game changer and good recommendations its probably beyond the scope for most people. Also the OP is in Turkey so making recommendations would be hard in terms of DIY.

Waovv text book explanation. Thanks a million! And yes, I think I should start considering to get a better speaker from a "better" (if any) company.

Not sure what brands you have available to you but look for smallish bookshelf 2-ways that would fit on your desk space and that use drivers (woofer and tweeter) that in close closely coupled on the baffle will help them perform well nearfiled. If KEF is available in your region they would be a great option due to their use of coaxial drivers (tweeter is mounted in the center of the woofers voice coil).

Pair that with a decent class D amp from Topping, SMSL, or similar and you'll be on your way.

Oh? And where is this general rule written or stated? Frankly, I think it nonsense to put any number in there.

Nowhere, but if you are starting from zero with no knowledge about this it helps to keep things simple. Speakers are the most important so spend most of your money there and don't upgrade your source when you have 20 year old multimedia speakers.

 

[Bill_Bright]

As a general rule of thumb your source (DAC/soundcard) should be 15-25% of the budget of your system and at least 50% should go into the speakers.

Oh? And where is this general rule written or stated? Frankly, I think it nonsense to put any number in there.

Nowhere, but if you are starting from zero with no knowledge about this it helps to keep things simple.

I agree. But that is not what you did. You stated as a matter of technical fact, that some general rule of thumb exists when no such rule actually does. You simply made up your own rule pulling arbitrary numbers out of the air. That is NOT keeping it simple at all! In fact, it is deceiving and complicates the problems with misconceptions and misinformation.

Speakers are the most important so spend most of your money there

Which is exactly what was suggested way up in post #2 - without any made-up numbers, falsehoods or misinformation.

 

[Operandi]

I agree. But that is not what you did. You stated as a matter of technical fact, that some general rule of thumb exists when no such rule actually does. You simply made up your own rule pulling arbitrary numbers out of the air. That is NOT keeping it simple at all! In fact, it is deceiving and complicates the problems with misconceptions and misinformation.

I made my statement within the context of "general rule of thumb" which is pretty much the opposite of "mater of technical fact". Example, if if you have X amount of dollars spend 50% of that on the speakers, 30% on the amplification, and the remaining 20% on the source. Don't go blowing 90% on the speakers and leaving 10% of the budget for everything else is the gneral idea.

They are just loose numbers to get started, its not no misconceptions, or misleading and shouldn't be confusing.

Which is exactly what was suggested way up in post #2 - without any made-up numbers, falsehoods or misinformation.

You were talking about what most people consider to be "high-end (audiophile) audio" and what most people consider to be "computer audio". You can have high-end sound on desktop, they are not mutually exclusive and I was making general recommendations since it sounds like OP wants to upgrade their desktop sound. I don't see how our comments are in conflict with each other and nothing I said is made up, false or misinformation for the reasons I sated above.

 

[The red spirit]

Plus, much of the sound in games is exaggerated too for better special effects, not for better (more faithful) audio reproduction "accuracy".

I don't really agree with that. It really was in late 90s and early 2000s, especially in arena shooters like Quake and Unreal Tournament, but today they are extremely watered down and sound just plain lame, no matter what equipment you use. Basically every game after Far Cry 1 and UT2004, has had really disappointing or crappy sound effects. Also, how did everyone forget THX earrape in every single game. That was the shit.

 

[Bones]

It's a good card but things like no support for Linux does make it not as versatile as others may be.

I did run into an issue with mine getting too hot, causing it to start clipping audio so I had to remove the little "Window" and mount a fan - That took care of it. Kinda dumb the way it's setup for cooling since there is no fan and the fact it's more or less encased but once I did the mod it was OK, no futher issues to say about it.

Creative doesn't make drivers for Linux so that's why it's not supported but I did find my really old Creative Soundblaster 24 bit Live SB0410 card does work in Linux and it's good with plenty of volume too.


Better than the onboard audio for my boards in fact but it's limitation is it's for an older PCI slot, so I'm having to run a board with one of those to use it.
Aside from that it's good, even after all these years.

 

[Bill_Bright]

I don't really agree with that.

today they are extremely watered down and sound just plain lame

has had really disappointing or crappy sound effects.

Actually, you support my point, which was the sound in games is not realistic. That is, the reproduction of such sounds is not being worthy of the "audiophile quality" descriptor.

I don't know what "watered down" is supposed to mean. I have heard the audio from many current games through quality headphones and quality speakers. They did not sound "muddled", watered down, or lame to me. They sounded exaggerated or just plain unreal - to me.

Either way, not audiophile quality and again, the point I was trying to make.

I made my statement within the context of "general rule of thumb" which is pretty much the opposite of "mater of technical fact".

Opposite? Nice try, but not even. While a "rule of thumb" does not necessarily indicate a technical fact, it does indicate some widely known and commonly accepted principle or method.

You made a specific statement indicating there was a rule of thumb already out there. You made that up! It was a falsehood - to put it nicely. There is no such rule of thumb as you claimed. So in that sense, it was you pretending there was a rule of thumb out there and that, is the opposite of a fact.

Your arbitrary numbers may be your opinion, and that is fine - you are entitled to express your opinion, if expressed as such. But claiming the numbers you made up indicate a rule of thumb when that is not true at all, is not fine.

Now to keep the hole you put yourself in from getting bigger and bigger, I suggest you drop it now and let's move on.

 

[The red spirit]

Actually, you support my point, which was the sound in games is not realistic. That is, the reproduction of such sounds is not being worthy of the "audiophile quality" descriptor.

I would still recommend an inexpensive USB DAC for better SNR. 100 dollars should buy something decent.

I don't know what "watered down" is supposed to mean. I have heard the audio from many current games through quality headphones and quality speakers. They did not sound "muddled", watered down, or lame to me. They sounded exaggerated or just plain unreal - to me.

Gun sounds sound like shit in new games, compared to old UT games. Environmental sounds were perfect in Far Cry 1, meanwhile new Far Cry lack "punch"

 

[Jokii]

I made my statement within the context of "general rule of thumb" which is pretty much the opposite of "mater of technical fact". Example, if if you have X amount of dollars spend 50% of that on the speakers, 30% on the amplification, and the remaining 20% on the source. Don't go blowing 90% on the speakers and leaving 10% of the budget for everything else is the gneral idea.

They are just loose numbers to get started, its not no misconceptions, or misleading and shouldn't be confusing.

While I generally agree that more money should go to certain parts in a system, I disagree with giving such "rule of thumb" percentages.

That's because a percentage-based allocation suggests that, say, more expensive speakers benefit from a more expensive source. But speakers, along with your room acoustics, are always the weaker link when it comes to distortion and frequency response (unless you're using a really crappy source). Pretty much any motherboard line output has lower distortion and a flatter frequency response than the most expensive speakers in the world. Of course, mobo outputs often suffer from noise, but you don't need to spend a lot of money to fix that problem either.

In short: rather than thinking in terms of percentages, make sure the individual parts perform well enough, within your budget.

I would still recommend an inexpensive USB DAC for better SNR. 100 dollars should buy something decent.

100 dollars seems too much if you just want better SNR. Try with 9 dollars first. That $9 Apple soundcard/dongle even includes a mic input, unlike many of the more expensive products.

 

[The red spirit]

100 dollars seems too much if you just want better SNR. Try with 9 dollars first. That $9 Apple soundcard/dongle even includes a mic input, unlike many of the more expensive products.

I frankly doubt that it's better than onboard sound and you could get something like FIIO E10K for like 30 dollars for PC and it was great.

 

[Bill_Bright]

Gun sounds sound like shit in new games, compared to old UT games.

Well, I don't know what to tell you on that. I've not heard anyone else complain that gun "reports" sound less realistic than in the past. To me, they sound the same - which is to say, they still sound exaggerated and unrealistic - compared to the many genuine handgun, rifle, and shotgun reports I've heard in real-life.

And by exaggerated, I do NOT mean louder than real-life. I mean they still sound as "Hollywood" as ever.

To my ear, "punch" comes from how the amplified "analog" signal is reproduced by the speaker. If the signal lacks punch before it reaches the final amplifier section (and by then, it will have been converted to analog - since "sound" is always analog, therefore, so are the speaker drivers - the mechanical air pushers of a speaker) then there was no punch in the original sound - assuming it was recorded by a quality mic and not completely synthesized.

ADC and DAC component technologies have improved over the last couple decades. So even entry-level are better than in years past. So there is no reason it should be the hardware - unless (and this is a BIG MAYBE) you had top quality back then and entry-level today.

I note the human hearing peaks between the ages of 18 and 25. And that happens much more quickly if exposed to loud sounds (loud music, jet noise, heavy traffic/city noise, gun reports, etc.). Headphones and earbuds are common offenders! And, it should be noted, the damage is typically very subtle, typically unnoticed, but permanent and cumulative.

So I might suggest what you perceive as sounds today being watered down and lacking punch is not the games that have lost that punch or that have become muddled!

 

[commission3r]

if you're listening in stereo then try this combo: Asus Xonar Essence STX ii (soundcard) PreSonus Eris E4.5 (speakers) Chord company Clearway analogue RCA (interconnect cable)

 

[Chrispy_]

Yes, sorry to add my speaker model: It is Altec Lansing BXR1121 2W output per satellite and 7W output for subwoofer.

Altec Lansing BXR1121 2.1 Stereo Speaker System - 15W

Buy Altec Lansing BXR1121 2.1 Stereo Speaker System - 15W Review Altec Lansing BXR1121

www.bhphotovideo.com

Those speakers are the limiting factor for sure. Unless you change your speakers, the only real reason to upgrade your sound card is going to be to reduce hiss and electrical noise picked up by the analogue side of the audio circuitry. A basic USB DAC would likely cut down on a lot of the static, hiss, and faint background whine/beeps that often plague onboard sound, I don't know if that's something your particular setup has issues with or not.

 

[Operandi]

That's because a percentage-based allocation suggests that, say, more expensive speakers benefit from a more expensive source. But speakers, along with your room acoustics, are always the weaker link when it comes to distortion and frequency response (unless you're using a really crappy source). Pretty much any motherboard line output has lower distortion and a flatter frequency response than the most expensive speakers in the world. Of course, mobo outputs often suffer from noise, but you don't need to spend a lot of money to fix that problem either.

Distortion from a speaker is different than distortion in amp, which is different than distortion in DAC. In terms of a DAC a lot of what you are getting when moving to better DAC is lower distortion in phase and time domain and thats strictly a digital source thing, so yeah there is always improvements to be made with the source. I do agree though that room acoustics are big one particularly with a nearfield desktop setup and a poor setup is going to make any of the differences between a good DAC and a great one imperceivable so its best to get that in a good state first.

 

[Ruru]

I had a SBZ (bulk model, no LED bling) and even it did sound good, I don't miss it as modern onboard solutions are fine.

 

[The red spirit]

So I might suggest what you perceive as sounds today being watered down and lacking punch is not the games that have lost that punch or that have become muddled!

Dude, I'm deaf and with hearing aids. I still think that modern video game sounds are nowhere near UT99's

 

[Bill_Bright]

Okay. I'll take your word on that.

 

[TheDeeGee]

To me, gamers don't need "audiophile" quality audio because so much of the gaming experience involves the visual side of things. Plus, much of the sound in games is exaggerated too for better special effects, not for better (more faithful) audio reproduction "accuracy".

And frankly, the vast majority of the remaining computer users don't need audiophile quality audio either because even if we (and I do mean "we") consider ourselves discerning listeners with calibrated ears, when we listen to music on our computers, it typically is, more or less, background music - even if played loudly.

And last, if you consider even a 1/10 audiophile could easily justify spending $200-$300 on just the left-front speaker alone, forget about the right-front speaker or the pre-amp and amplifier electronics, and the audio source (file, CD, DVD, streaming service, etc)., then 1,200TL ($64.51USD) sound card is like listening to an AM transistor radio.

That sound card is just one component. You told us nothing of your speakers or the electronics that drive them. If your current speakers are your bottleneck, a new sound card is not likely to produce any significant improvement.

Not trying to burst your bubble here - but people need to be realistic when it comes to computer sound. Even a very modest sound system for a budget home theater system could easily cost $2000 (37,200TL) or more.

Having said all that, as seen here, the audio on that motherboard was rated as "Excellent". If looking to get better sound, maybe look into better speakers.

Depends on ones headphones.

My AKG K601 sounds freakin' aweful on my onboard from 2021 (flat, shallow and soulless). It's why i still use my superiour Sound Blaster ZXR from 2013, and will do so for many years to come.

 

[Athlonite]

Pretty much what others have said in this thread it will never matter how good the sound output device is if your speakers/headphones are naff you'll never hear the best results
get a decent pair of bookshelf speakers and a reasonable self powered sub like Edifier they used to be the cheapo option for PC speakers but have in recent years pulled finger and are now making so very nice units at reasonable prices take these for example S360DB 2.1 for $499 I have a mate that has these and they do sound really nice and have plenty of bass punch if that's what you like

 

[evernessince]

To me, gamers don't need "audiophile" quality audio because so much of the gaming experience involves the visual side of things. Plus, much of the sound in games is exaggerated too for better special effects, not for better (more faithful) audio reproduction "accuracy".

And frankly, the vast majority of the remaining computer users don't need audiophile quality audio either because even if we (and I do mean "we") consider ourselves discerning listeners with calibrated ears, when we listen to music on our computers, it typically is, more or less, background music - even if played loudly.

And last, if you consider even a 1/10 audiophile could easily justify spending $200-$300 on just the left-front speaker alone, forget about the right-front speaker or the pre-amp and amplifier electronics, and the audio source (file, CD, DVD, streaming service, etc)., then 1,200TL ($64.51USD) sound card is like listening to an AM transistor radio.

That sound card is just one component. You told us nothing of your speakers or the electronics that drive them. If your current speakers are your bottleneck, a new sound card is not likely to produce any significant improvement.

Not trying to burst your bubble here - but people need to be realistic when it comes to computer sound. Even a very modest sound system for a budget home theater system could easily cost $2000 (37,200TL) or more.

Having said all that, as seen here, the audio on that motherboard was rated as "Excellent". If looking to get better sound, maybe look into better speakers.

You are vastly over-complicating things. As an audiophile myself, my recommendation to those that want better audio at a reasonable price would be to get a VRZ Model One. $350 gets you 95% of the performance of a much more expensive audiophile setup. You can spend another $399 on a DX5 but frankly the benefit is going to be small. The great part about the model one is that they also appeal to people who prefer speakers as they use an acoustic lens to generate the same level of depth and sound positioning as a perfectly setup surround sound system. For games sound positing is extremely precise to the point where you can clearly tell which games have poor spatial audio implementations.

I'd highly disagree that Audio isn't that important either. Proper sound design can make or break a game. The quality of the sound effects and how those sounds propagate in the game environment can heavily influence immersion. HTRF based game audio is a good example of how sound can elevate a game like that used in Hellblade. People focus way too much on the visual improvement of games when it would take vastly less resources to do something like say simulate the propagation of sounds waves. No more 1 sound for breaking pots, you'd get a dynamic sounds based on material, force, place of impact, ect.

To the OP, no that soundcard will not improve your audio quality. Your motherboard's built in DAC is better. Soundblaster cards in general are not worth it.

 

[mclaren85]

Ok you won, I will buy a 2+1 speaker system. Do you think Edifier is a good brand?