Why does everyone hate the 4080?

[Bomby569]

The OP has way too much money, i would also love to buy shit ignoring what it costs.
Also the market is awful because Nvidia make it so

 

[freeagent]

Has anybody mentioned that they are pricing these accordingly so they can remove their excess 30xx stock?

Or am i wrong?

Prices on 30 series are still high here, for instance my card is still listed at 950, plus 14% tax on top.. I mean a 3060 is between 500-700 plus tax still.. doesn’t seem that great to me. Mind you I had to buy my GPU with a PSU and it was like 1300 the summer before last.

 

[Omga4000]

The OP has way too much money, i would also love to buy shit ignoring what it costs.
Also the market is awful because Nvidia make it so

Said Elon Musk.

With all seriousness, though. Is that what you understood from my post?
If I had "way too much money" do you think I'd bother opening a thread and asking for people's opinion?
If you had actually read the thread you'd know I've canceled my order after the nice people of this community had helped me understand why this was a bad deal.

 

[blued]

I'll simply add, that no matter how bad in value a GPU is, initial inventory after launch will almost always sell well. The thrill of having a new gen card that outperforms everything before it often over-rides perceived value. This exacerbated by the ridiculous pricing that everyone had to endure in last couple years, they begin to think its the 'new norm' and they are getting a good deal vs what cards were selling for during the crypto boom.

 

[evernessince]

WHAT? Repeat after me: Size does not matter! This is like saying 100 grams of apples should cost the same as 100 grams of steak, because they share the same weight.

If you want to count dollar per something physical, at least pick something meaningful. Such as transistor count.

First, your analogy is terrible. An Apple and a Steak are two different things. Comparing one GPU die to another is a for like comparison and entirely valid.

Nvidia's first GPU the STG-2000 had a transistor count of 1 million. The 4090 has 76.3 billion. If your logic is that price should increase with transistor count modern GPUs would be unaffordable by everyone but billionaires.

dont do that .. if you can afford a product, enjoy it, don't listen to others. it's your money, you worked for it, so you can spend it in any way you want

Your own reviews contain a conclusion page doing just that though....

Mind you, this isn't a constructive point to this thread, you are merely side-stepping the discussion. He is asking for advice and you are telling him to ignore the very advise he courted.

This is the kind of comment someone makes when the logical argument for buying a product is poor so they then make an emotional appeal like this. Simply having the money doesn't mean you earned it nor does it touch upon any of the factors considered when buying the product. It's only "do you feel like you've earned it? Oh you do? Then ignore what everyone else said because you feel you've earned it". This kind of argument from emotion can be used to justify any purchase, regardless of the red flags. Everyone wants to feel like they've earned their purchases and this argument from emotion prays on that feeling to get someone to ignore logic.

FYI if anyone had any questions of whether Nvidia is artificially keeping prices high: https://www.morningstar.com/news/ma...hen-compared-with-nvidia-this-earnings-season

Their inventory has doubled YoY. They have $706 Million USD worth of product valued at cost (what Nvidia pays). The actual market value of these products is closer to 1.129 billion USD.

 

[Bomby569]

Said Elon Musk.

With all seriousness, though. Is that what you understood from my post?
If I had "way too much money" do you think I'd bother opening a thread and asking for people's opinion?
If you had actually read the thread you'd know I've canceled my order after the nice people of this community had helped me understand why this was a bad deal.

sure, but the issue was that you bought 2 and thought it was a great deal. I'm sure lots think like you and i really can't explain that unless you have money coming out of your pockets.

Sure if you knew nothing about tech, but you clearly did.

 

[Omga4000]

sure, but the issue was that you bought 2 and thought it was a great deal. I'm sure lots think like you and i really can't explain that unless you have money coming out of your pockets.

Sure if you knew nothing about tech, but you clearly did.

The short explanation:
In today's messed-up market, inflated prices and little to no stock, the 4080 at MSRP is considered a deal by anyone who doesn't care about nVidia being a greedy company and supporting the price inflation. Yes - the added cost translated directly into the performance increase and technically paying for the 4080 is the same as paying for a 3080, performance:cost ratio-wise, making it a terrible deal overall and promoting no real improvement over the generations. The sad this is this is only true for MSRP prices, which at this point are just a made-up number that doesn't mean anything because the entire market is trash.
I'm already seeing 1,200$ 4080's being sold for ~1,800$. This has basically been the case for any new card ever since the 30xx series was released.

The shorter explanation: I got really tired of waiting for prices to drop. It's been years. So I pulled the trigger only to run quickly and catch the bullet before it hit anyone.

Both have nothing to do with the amount of money I have. For all you know I have been saving for the past few years just for this.

 

[AnotherReader]

The short explanation:
In today's messed-up market, inflated prices and little to no stock, the 4080 at MSRP is considered a deal by anyone who doesn't care about nVidia being a greedy company and supporting the price inflation. Yes - the added cost translated directly into the performance increase and technically paying for the 4080 is the same as paying for a 3080, performance:cost ratio-wise, making it a terrible deal overall and promoting no real improvement over the generations. The sad this is this is only true for MSRP prices, which at this point are just a made-up number that doesn't mean anything because the entire market is trash.
I'm already seeing 1,200$ 4080's being sold for ~1,800$. This has basically been the case for any new card ever since the 30xx series was released.

The shorter explanation: I got really tired of waiting for prices to drop. It's been years. So I pulled the trigger only to run quickly and catch the bullet before it hit anyone.

Both have nothing to do with the amount of money I have. For all you know I have been saving for the past few years just for this.

In that case, your best bet would have been to buy the 4090 at launch time. It's a much better purchase than the 4080.

 

[Omga4000]

In that case, your best bet would have been to buy the 4090 at launch time. It's a much better purchase than the 4080.

That is 100% correct and I wish I had done this, but I was led to believe that the market had recovered and did not think the 40xx series would be the same as the 30xx was.
People kept saying "the market is flooded with 30xx series and prices are going down".

Not being native to the US and not knowing how the US market was during the 30xx launch, I had little experience with what was going on here.
So I trusted sources saying it will be alright. It wasn't alright and it still isn't.

Still - happy my house didn't burn down due to the 4090's faulty connection, so at least I've got that going for me

 

[blued]

Btw, I dont think the 4080 will remain at that price for long. In due time, a few weeks perhaps it will go down to under $1k. Most likely after AMDs 7900 cards are out.

I think the same decision maker at Nv (Jensen) who came up with the brilliant idea to call a 4070 the 4080 12gb is also behind the 16gb cards pricing. And sooner or later it will dawn on him that maybe he messed up like he did with the 4070 12gb.

 

[Bomby569]

can't you get a used 3090ti for example.
wait for amd
the mentioned, get a 4090

lots of options, you picked the worst. There's a reason they aren't flying of the shelves

 

[Vayra86]

Said Elon Musk.

With all seriousness, though. Is that what you understood from my post?
If I had "way too much money" do you think I'd bother opening a thread and asking for people's opinion?
If you had actually read the thread you'd know I've canceled my order after the nice people of this community had helped me understand why this was a bad deal.

I honestly think the approach you took in your OP, just being frank about your stance and asking in honest fashion why people think differently, is something more people should do.

We've been having a pretty open discussion because of it. The fact you even cancelled the order is a sign of a good listener, a virtue rarely seen today.

Well played, I say.

 

[AusWolf]

for me the driver quality should be judged by the oldest cards that support it.

The drivers for your 260X are bad, so they must be bad for everything that came after? Do you see why this doesn't make any sense?

Have you actually tried an RDNA 2 card? I have, and they all work flawlessly. There is no stability issue when buying a new AMD card. Period.

nvidia drivers always been fine stability-wise. Not so good performance-wise (Kepler 600 and 700 series mainly). If you check the gpu popularity list on steam https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/videocard/, there are a lot of Maxwell based cards (2015, can be considered as old). Yea undervolting can be done via wattman, but dont let this fool you tho, its still software based. i modded the bios of the 260X so it pulls 85W instead of 120W (hawaii bios editor, works for any gcn 2 based card), and i can transfer the card into any system and it will draw 85W under load, no need to re-configure anything. Bios has been locked on modern amd/nvidias, so the only option is software profile. And for that i better use a dedicated tool, like msi afterburner. And considering that there are more nvidia cards in existence compared to amd, and the fact that amd drivers get much more criticism than nvidia's, already tells us something. Amd just fails to deliver the whole package, mainly drivers need more tweaking and optimization. If they skip all the addional bells and whistles and instead focus on the core stuff, the stability should go up.

When did I ever talk about BIOS modding? All I said was AMD and Intel allow you to fine-tune the performance characteristics of your card via their software, while Nvidia doesn't.

Personally, I never suggest anyone to BIOS mod a graphics card, but that's a different story.

 

[Gameslove]

My opinion about rtx 4080 - overpriced, Germany retailer such a alternate.de prices start at 1500 € (near 1500$), and no information about a new power cable 12VHPWR stability...... Don't buy......

 

[Omga4000]

can't you get a used 3090ti for example.
wait for amd
the mentioned, get a 4090

lots of options, you picked the worst. There's a reason they aren't flying of the shelves

I've already commented about the used market, but basically no.
The 1st card (out of the 2 I bought) is a present, so buying a used one is not an option here.
The 2nd card which I bought for myself I just went ahead and cancelled. Waiting for the AMD series to release, hoping it doesn't suck in RT and VR.
I'm in no real rush here, but damn it I've been waiting for 4 years to buy a card. 20xx & 30xx sky-rocketed because of crypto miners and the chip shortage so I was forced out of the market at the time, and the 40xx is so far behaving similarly, if not worse due to the already inflated MSRP price.
I just want to play already

If AMD fails to provide something good I am seriously at a loss here.

Btw, I dont think the 4080 will remain at that price for long. In due time, a few weeks perhaps it will go down to under $1k. Most likely after AMDs 7900 cards are out.

I think the same decision maker at Nv (Jensen) who came up with the brilliant idea to call a 4070 the 4080 12gb is also behind the 16gb cards pricing. And sooner or later it will dawn on him that maybe he messed up like he did with the 4070 12gb.

That's what I've been hearing for the past year about the 30xx series, and yet nothing had changed. They are still as high as a kite.
I definitely hope you're right, though.
I'll wait for AMD and hope for the best, fingers crossed.

I honestly think the approach you took in your OP, just being frank about your stance and asking in honest fashion why people think differently, is something more people should do.

We've been having a pretty open discussion because of it. The fact you even cancelled the order is a sign of a good listener, a virtue rarely seen today.

Well played, I say.

I had posted the exact same thing in other forums as well (like LTT), hoping to hear as many opinions as I can.
The sad thing is 70-80% of people just think I'm bragging about buying the cards, as if that's anything to brag about, and think my mind is all made up because I had already made the purchase and I'm trying to "justify" it. Like I have anything to prove to some random strangers on the internet. That led to mostly negative comments such as "This has to be an Nvidia sponsored post, right?" and "copium", providing basically no assistance and trying to laugh at someone who may understand this subject less than they do.
Have people never heard of cancelling a purchase or returning a product?

The situation in this forum was better, though. Though some were still skeptical about the purpose of this thread the vast majority understood I'm here to learn and hear other people's opinion and were able to provide meaningful data that helped me make up my mind while also teaching me a thing or two (or three).

 

[Vayra86]

nVidia desperately wants to be the Apple of GPUs: closed off ecosystem (Hairworks, G-sync, DLSS to name a few) and complete control of the manufacturing-to-sales line with insane pricing, with loyal fans lining up to buy the next iPhone overpriced GPU.

For good reasons in their view, because as a GPU maker for gamers, how many more unique selling points do they really have left? Note that AMD is doing a similar thing, except not by capturing the market in hostile way, but rather on the train of goodwill. They essentially feed on the us VS them mentality because its free marketing. And they know free works. FreeSync works Ironically, it 'just works' too, even on Gsync capable monitors. Nvidia lost that battle bigtime, and it underlines why they can never be Apple; some competitor will simply create something more useful, they're not gatekeepers of anything except their own shitty Geforce Experience nobody likes to login to.

RT is another such move, its a desperate search for new demand. Cornering the market is another way to create / maintain demand. And the slow trickle of releases (1>2 year cadence) is another. The examples are all over the place. The company is looking strategically at the future. Note again the massive difference to AMD's approach. AMD is not going to toss bags of money at the industry to make them content. They're going to sit and wait for it to be ready to take off the stove, and make a nice console meal out of it. And the longer they let it sit there, the more Nvidia is going to have to keep working to keep that supposed leadership position. Note the extremely relaxed AMD presentation on the 7000 series. All tech, numbers and just raw gaming. RT? 'Oh yeah, we have it too, it works fine, np'. That's a major vote of confidence - no overinflation, just what it is. I think AMD knows exactly where to punch these days to make Huang gasp for air.

 

[AusWolf]

The short explanation:
In today's messed-up market, inflated prices and little to no stock, the 4080 at MSRP is considered a deal by anyone who doesn't care about nVidia being a greedy company and supporting the price inflation. Yes - the added cost translated directly into the performance increase and technically paying for the 4080 is the same as paying for a 3080, performance:cost ratio-wise, making it a terrible deal overall and promoting no real improvement over the generations. The sad this is this is only true for MSRP prices, which at this point are just a made-up number that doesn't mean anything because the entire market is trash.
I'm already seeing 1,200$ 4080's being sold for ~1,800$. This has basically been the case for any new card ever since the 30xx series was released.
View attachment 270387

The shorter explanation: I got really tired of waiting for prices to drop. It's been years. So I pulled the trigger only to run quickly and catch the bullet before it hit anyone.

Both have nothing to do with the amount of money I have. For all you know I have been saving for the past few years just for this.

Listening to advice, and not wasting your money on something you don't necessarily need. Well played.

In that case, your best bet would have been to buy the 4090 at launch time. It's a much better purchase than the 4080.

I'm not a fan of any company, but I'm starting to think that AMD is a better buy at nearly all price ranges at the moment, unless you need superior RT performance or DLSS.

• In the low range, unless you find a cheap 1650, the 6400 and 6500 XT can be had for the price of the garbage 1630 now.
• In the mid-range, nothing beats the 6600 and 6600 XT.
• In the high-end, AMD is discounting the 6900 XT which makes it a good deal.
• In the higher than high end (whatever you want to call it), you only have Nvidia, but one has to be ready to pay the price.

 

[AnotherReader]

I'm not a fan of any company, but I'm starting to think that AMD is a better buy at nearly all price ranges at the moment, unless you need superior RT performance or DLSS.

I agree. AMD is the better buy if you aren't looking for the best RT performance. The gap between the 6600XT and the 3060, for example, is particularly stark. Here, the 3060 is priced about the same as a 6700 XT which is ridiculously faster.

 

[Bomby569]

I'm in no real rush here, but damn it I've been waiting for 4 years to buy a card. 20xx & 30xx sky-rocketed because of crypto miners and the chip shortage so I was forced out of the market at the time, and the 40xx is so far behaving similarly, if not worse due to the already inflated MSRP price.

don't talk shit about miners to me, they took my overpriced rx480 and rx5700 and gave me literal free upgrades in the 2 crypto waves, i've been upgrading without spending any money thanks to them

sold the 5700 (more then one year old) for 550€ and bought a brand new 3060ti LHR for 600€

 

[neatfeatguy]

don't talk shit about miners to me, they took my overpriced rx480 and rx5700 and gave me literal free upgrades in the 2 crypto waves, i've been upgrading without spending any money thanks to them

sold the 5700 (more then one year old) for 550€ and bought a brand new 3060ti LHR for 600€

My brother was able to sell his 5700XT for around $900, just before crypto started to cool off. He paid around $450 for it 2 years prior. I bugged him about selling it sooner, he'd have probably pulled a $1000 or more, but he dragged his feet a bit. He still made profit off it.

I've already commented about the used market, but basically no.
The 1st card (out of the 2 I bought) is a present, so buying a used one is not an option here.
The 2nd card which I bought for myself I just went ahead and cancelled. Waiting for the AMD series to release, hoping it doesn't suck in RT and VR.
I'm in no real rush here, but damn it I've been waiting for 4 years to buy a card. 20xx & 30xx sky-rocketed because of crypto miners and the chip shortage so I was forced out of the market at the time, and the 40xx is so far behaving similarly, if not worse due to the already inflated MSRP price.
I just want to play already

If AMD fails to provide something good I am seriously at a loss here.

Why would you be at a loss? The 4080 appears to be pretty easy to get - especially if you have a Micro Center store near you. I didn't check all the store locations, but it appears that most of them have 20+ cards on hand still. If you find that the 7900XT or XTX don't meet your needs, you shouldn't have any issues getting a 4080 again.

I don't think the 4080 is a good use of money, way overpriced....which has been covered many times over in many of the posts in this topic.

If rumors are true, the 7900XTX should fall somewhere between the 4080 and the 4090 in terms of rasterization performance. Even if it doesn't outright beat the 4080, as long as it matches it, that $1000 price tag is a lot more appealing to people than the $1200 for the 4080. We just play the waiting game.

 

[Omga4000]

Why would you be at a loss? The 4080 appears to be pretty easy to get - especially if you have a Micro Center store near you. I didn't check all the store locations, but it appears that most of them have 20+ cards on hand still. If you find that the 7900XT or XTX don't meet your needs, you shouldn't have any issues getting a 4080 again.

I don't think the 4080 is a good use of money, way overpriced....which has been covered many times over in many of the posts in this topic.

If rumors are true, the 7900XTX should fall somewhere between the 4080 and the 4090 in terms of rasterization performance. Even if it doesn't outright beat the 4080, as long as it matches it, that $1000 price tag is a lot more appealing to people than the $1200 for the 4080. We just play the waiting game.

I don't have a MicroCenter near me, unfortunately.

It's all a guessing game, I really don't trust anyone anymore. I was fooled one too many times
I'll play the waiting game because that's the best game I can play right now. Such amazing graphics.

 

[Outback Bronze]

Prices on 30 series are still high here

More reason for a 4080 to be expensive then, no?

 

[Ayhamb99]

To quote what Steve from Gamers Nexus said in his review "For every one percent performance improvement, if you also spend one percent more money, that ruins the part when it's cool. It's no longer cool. It doesn't actually produce a meaningful step for consumers, where they feel like the industry or the amount that they get for their money is increasing."

No matter how great the performance uplift over the previous generation is, if it also comes with a significant uplift in price, the performance increase becomes irrelevant and it feels more like Nvidia is try to price gouge us.

To quote what another user in this thread already wrote.

I think the chief problem is that value has historically and consistently went up for most generations of the xx80 cards with the exception of Turing/RTX 2xxx.

For example, the 3080 was 66.7% faster than the 2080 at 4k and was $100 less.
The 1080 was 69.4% faster than the 980 at 4k and was 9%-27% more expensive (AIBs $599, FE $699).
The 980 was 31.6% faster than the 780 at 4k and was $100 less.
The 780 was 26.6% faster than the 680 at 1600p and was 30% more expensive. (This was from the same architecture when AMD didn't have a response for the entire 6xx generation, 680 was GK104 and 780 was GK110)
The 680 was 29.8% faster than the 580 at 1600p and was the same price.
The 580 was 16.3% faster than the 480 at 1600p and was the same price.

For most generations, value has gone up substantially because performance went up while price went up less or remained the same. Having a 1:1 ratio for price increase % and performance increase % isn't really something that me, or a lot of people, get excited for. This situation reminds me of the 6xx and 7xx generation because the competition wasn't there so Nvidia could charge whatever they wanted. Thankfully AMD is coming around sooner rather than later this time.

People got rightfully angry back when the 2080 Ti was released with its ridiculous price of $1200 because all of the new performance improvements and impressive technology that came with it became irrelevant when it also came with a 70% price increase over the last generation 1080 Ti.

Now Nvidia wants to charge us $1200 for an xx80s card that historically had a MSRP between $500-$700? Nvidia can shove it. The xx80s lineup were always pretty popular for how they came within striking distance of the flagship but at much reasonable prices. With the 4080 not only the price was increased significantly but the whole GPU was cut down in a such a margin that it is nowhere near close to the 4090 making the 4090 look like good value compared to the 4080 and that card costs $1600.

The chip shortage has been over for a while now so there is literally no excuse that Nvidia has for the price increase. It is just pure insatiable greed at an attempt to cash in on the people last year who did not get the memo to avoid buying the GPUs at the inflated prices during the shortage and paid 2x/3x the original MSRP of many of the GPU Lineup.

 

[Nordic]

Speaking broadly here (not specifically to the OP), I fear that graphics card prices are irreversibly higher. Decreasing node sizes are increasing cost, while demand for the most advanced nodes has been incredibly strong will lead to high prices. Consumer demand has been far higher than supply. I am voting with my wallet by not buying into it. Unfortunately, too many people are willing to spend this kind of money.

 

[wolf]

I'm sorry for sounding like a broken record...

Honestly you kinda do, but that's fine.

Again, I bought the product and love it, have no issues with it the way I use it, and have no concerns about longevity in my system.

You joke about VRAM mitigation strategies, well I've never yet had to actually turn textures down, but strategies like that a majority of gamers need to use all the time, not many can people turn every dial in the game to 11 and hit their performance target/max their refresh on a 1440p+ display. In most new games I use optimised settings anyway as it's also the net benefit and smarter way to play than ultra, intelligent visual compromise is everywhere. If VRAM is your hill to die on, so be it, I don't need to hear it again.

So I can appreciate all these spec related reasons that you didn't buy it, your concerns about VRAM mostly it seems, that other users seem to agree with you on, despite not owning or buying one lol, which I'd argue is paramount to knowing what its like to use one in practise (especially when it's the only real 'drawback' consideration), but yeah, cards a beast, and it's yet to disappoint me, hard disagree on those points, so forgive me if I hold my own experience and assessment of value in higher regard than yours, and other non-buyers on this forum. I may sound like a broken record on that, but personal preference and experience are king, nobody but me can can experience this card in my system.

Good luck with whatever do you do or don't choose to buy again that aligns to your preference on features, performance, VRAM etc. Again I can see why the 3080 10gb wasn't the product for you, but I don't really need to keep hearing about the compromise you think I've made, I'm having a great time. In fact I'm convinced not a soul on earth can talk me into disliking it considering it has paid for itself and put even more money in my pocket lol, it made itself free and gave me even more money for the next card. Perhaps we need to agree to disagree, or I can start doing a deep dive into why I didn't buy a 6800XT?